Hello all...
I very much welcome anyone's opinion on this one. I've been lurking on this board for years but I finally got the courage to type out my story. I'd love your thoughts and opinions. I really respect everyone's opinions and thoughts on this board.
As a warning, there is a sexual element to my posting so please do not read further if this sort of thing offends you. However, I would not be able to tell my story without it.
I'm currently a 32yo living as a male.
Around the time when I was 6 or 7, I started dressing up in my older sisters clothes. I think the first thing I wore was a dance recital outfit. I don't remember putting it on because it was feminine. All I remember was that it was tight and it felt good, especially around my genital region. I started to wear it every single day..and I gradually started wearing other things. No idea where it moved on from there but, needless to say, by the time I was 10, I was wearing panties, bra's, skirts, etc. I even remember saying out loud (to no one) that I wanted a sex change around that time. However, every time I dressed up, there as always something tight around my waist and I would squeeze my legs together and, although I didn't know it at the time, I was creating an orgasm. All I knew was that it felt amazing, like nothing I had ever felt before, and I became addicted.
Time went on and I became attracted to men, almost exclusively. I dated women but my attraction to them was really more emotional. I don't remember ever thinking that I wanted to BE them. I realized that what I was doing was masturbatory in nature and eventually learned to do it the "regular" way. Although crossdressing and fantasies came and went throughout this period, they were always there to a greater or lesser extent. However, I discovered males and gay erotica and that became my primary sort of release.
I had 3 gay relationships early on after coming out to my parents as gay. All 3 failed miserably and each broke my heart in their own way and hurt me tremendously. After the 3rd (which was 7 years ago), I haven't dated anyone regular since. My fantasies about dressing up and being a woman have gotten stronger since then. I live alone and have accumulated a very small arsenal of clothes. I've had regular bouts with severe depression and anxiety. I've even seen a dr here about starting hormones.
However, all of my fantasies regarding my gender are always sexual. There is never a time when I just daydream without it being sexual. Now, when I say that, I don't mean that they always involve another person. My fantasies could simply be about starting hormones or laying on a beach in a bikini or just having breasts. All of those things could turn me on (in addition to being treated as a male).
A lot of what I've read seems to classify me as a typical transsexual, i guess, but the sexual element is what confuses and frustrates me. If I don't release myself with thinking about that, a lot of times it will go away for a time, only to return eventually when I reach a point of utter frustration or depression in my life. I don't dress up very much even though I live alone. I don't always shave my body. I've never been out dressed. Also, as soon as I ejaculate, all of that "need" goes away. It's not disgust or shame that I feel in the least. I typcally just take all of those clothes off...until the need returns.
I live as a masculine gay male. There's really not a lot feminine about me. I think if I did eventually come out, friends would be very, very shocked.
However, I'm at a loss. Like I said, I've never written anything on these boards before. I just need some advice, thoughts, or help. :( Am I really trans? Do I just have a strong fetish? Is it a depression-coping method?
I dunno.
PS. Sorry this is so long. It's been a very long time leading up to this.
I really think you should consider seeing a therapist about this. You might get some help to clear up your confusion. It sounds to me from your post as if you're fairly unambiguous about you orientation (gay male), and it also seems like you get an erotic thrill from dressing in women's clothing. Nothing wrong with that. For me, I don't get aroused at the thought or action of dressing, for me it's just a feeling of being mySELF - coming home, being feminine. I haven't seen a therapist yet, but I definitely self-identify as a M2F transsexual. Not sure if this helps.
Quote from: Kim Ireland on July 12, 2010, 04:21:18 PM
I really think you should consider seeing a therapist about this. You might get some help to clear up your confusion. It sounds to me from your post as if you're fairly unambiguous about you orientation (gay male), and it also seems like you get an erotic thrill from dressing in women's clothing. Nothing wrong with that. For me, I don't get aroused at the thought or action of dressing, for me it's just a feeling of being mySELF - coming home, being feminine. I haven't seen a therapist yet, but I definitely self-identify as a M2F transsexual. Not sure if this helps.
Thank you very much for being so kind as to respond.
Well, that's the thing: it's not just a sexual thrill from the clothes. My fantasies rarely revolve around the clothing itself. It's more about the lifestyle and the image. When I am intimate, most times I'm not able to end the situation unless I think of myself as a woman. I don't need to be dressed up to fulfill the fantasy. I don't know if any of that makes any sense.
It's not entirely unheard of for men to experience a deep-seated need/want/desire in a sexualized way. Think about how men talk about cars, food, particularly fascinating scientific data sets...everything is sexy. If that's driven in part by having a male hormone balance, then it's not entirely impossible that a trans woman might have the same sort of sexualized experience of thinking about what she desperately wants (her identity). So it's not for us to say that you're not trans simply because you're turned on by thinking of yourself as a woman.
That being said...fetishes are real, and the way you describe your early experiences with women's clothing sound reasonably close to the stories many men tell about their fetish "imprinting." So just like I can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might be trans, I also can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might have a fetish for women's clothing and the associated thoughts of being a woman.
If this is causing you significant, severe distress, then you might want to talk to a therapist. But run screaming the other way if they use the word " ->-bleeped-<-," which is a completely discredited diagnosis even if it does seem to describe what you're experiencing.
Again, therapy can help you sort that out. The folks here can help you discuss it and see where it goes, but really, therapy is probably your best bet. I'm not calling you crazy - I'll be going into therapy myself, soon, to get my own head on straight, and figure out exactly what my goals are, and how I want to approach it. We all need help. This group is here to support each other through these waters. I hope I'm making sense.
As for fantasy life, I guess one of my clues about myself is that whereas I am mainly attracted to women, when I'm fantasizing, or looking at erotica, I mostly consider the woman in the fantasy or erotica to be a representation of myself. It isn't the idea of being a woman that turns me on, it's thinking about being sexual as a woman, if that makes any sense...
Hi Carly, :icon_wave:
Welcome to our little family. Over 5100 strong. That would be one heck of a family reunion.
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Hugs and Love,
Janet
Quote from: kyril on July 12, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
It's not entirely unheard of for men to experience a deep-seated need/want/desire in a sexualized way. Think about how men talk about cars, food, particularly fascinating scientific data sets...everything is sexy. If that's driven in part by having a male hormone balance, then it's not entirely impossible that a trans woman might have the same sort of sexualized experience of thinking about what she desperately wants (her identity). So it's not for us to say that you're not trans simply because you're turned on by thinking of yourself as a woman.
That being said...fetishes are real, and the way you describe your early experiences with women's clothing sound reasonably close to the stories many men tell about their fetish "imprinting." So just like I can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might be trans, I also can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might have a fetish for women's clothing and the associated thoughts of being a woman.
If this is causing you significant, severe distress, then you might want to talk to a therapist. But run screaming the other way if they use the word " ->-bleeped-<-," which is a completely discredited diagnosis even if it does seem to describe what you're experiencing.
Just when I was struggling to find something to say to try and help, someone goes and pretty much says it for me already. LOL! Thanks kyril. I completely agree. I can also add something I read one time about how males that are transsexuals who recognize their gender differences at a young age will most likely create a male persona in order to "fit in". With this persona, they adopt the things that would make a male to be considered normal. One of those things would to straight males be masturbating to sexy women whether it be pictures of them, hearing their voice, or even created images in the mind that male may have of them. As kyril said, it is very possible for a transwoman to have the same experience not only for the reason mentioned by kyril, but also perhaps because the transwoman at the early stages of coming out of the closet still hold on to these male sexual feelings toward women, so even though you are picturing yourself as that woman, the male persona of you just views it as another sexy woman image of your mind.
Also, the fact that you have been with women before also helps to create this arousal by the image of yourself as a woman even with you being strictly gay now. You will always have this feeling. (got to give my gay uncle props for this one. LOL!)
It's also possible for a trans woman to be naturally attracted to women, orientation and gender identity are completely different questions... (just to make life interesting!)
Quote from: Kim Ireland on July 12, 2010, 05:37:03 PM
It's also possible for a trans woman to be naturally attracted to women, orientation and gender identity are completely different questions... (just to make life interesting!)
Thanks for this add on. You are absolutely correct. I myself am attracted to both men and women even as a transwoman.
Quote from: Kim Ireland on July 12, 2010, 04:50:52 PM
As for fantasy life, I guess one of my clues about myself is that whereas I am mainly attracted to women, when I'm fantasizing, or looking at erotica, I mostly consider the woman in the fantasy or erotica to be a representation of myself. It isn't the idea of being a woman that turns me on, it's thinking about being sexual as a woman, if that makes any sense...
Agreed. That's exactly how I feel. I'd say that in the last 5-7 years, 70-75% of my sexual fantasies have involved me as a girl.
I must say, though, that autogynephelia is the ONLY explanation or definition that I've felt fits me :(
The problem with " ->-bleeped-<-" isn't that the phenomenon it describes doesn't exist - it does, you've got it. The male brain is wired such that basically anything can imprint as a fetish, including women's clothes/the thought of being a woman.
The problem is that it's used abusively as a diagnosis for trans women who don't fit the doctor's conception of what it is to be trans. It was invented by a doctor who believed that it explained most male-bodied trans* people. And so instead of being treated like any other fetish (ignore it unless it's causing significant and sustained distress, if it does cause distress try to work with the patient to integrate it into his life in a healthy way) it's treated as a punitive diagnosis for trans women, and those few men whom it describes are just sort of dumped into a larger patient category comprised mostly of trans women, who also populate most of the research study samples and confound any data that might be obtained.
So the treatments are inappropriate for both sets of populations it's applied to - treatment could include anything from aversion therapy (horrible for both) to hormone treatments (fine for trans women, but chemical castration for men) to talk therapy (fine for men, useless for women who need to physically transition). There's no telling what you'll get talked into doing if you let someone apply that word to you. Go to a doctor who doesn't use it.
Thank you all so much, again, for your responses.
Yes, Autogynephelia is the only definition that I've ever felt fits me. Once I saw that, it was like a lightbulb went off. That's exactly what I suffer from.
However, it doesn't really "do" anything. It doesn't really make me any more or less trans than anyone else. it doesn't mean that I should transition. It doesn't mean anything. :( It still leaves me helpless and confused. :(
Post Merge: July 19, 2010, 04:11:06 PM
Just wanted to bump this up again and see if anyone had any more thoughts or opinions for me. Thank you.
Quote from: kyril on July 12, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
It's not entirely unheard of for men to experience a deep-seated need/want/desire in a sexualized way. Think about how men talk about cars, food, particularly fascinating scientific data sets...everything is sexy. If that's driven in part by having a male hormone balance, then it's not entirely impossible that a trans woman might have the same sort of sexualized experience of thinking about what she desperately wants (her identity). So it's not for us to say that you're not trans simply because you're turned on by thinking of yourself as a woman.
That being said...fetishes are real, and the way you describe your early experiences with women's clothing sound reasonably close to the stories many men tell about their fetish "imprinting." So just like I can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might be trans, I also can't entirely exclude the possibility that you might have a fetish for women's clothing and the associated thoughts of being a woman.
If this is causing you significant, severe distress, then you might want to talk to a therapist. But run screaming the other way if they use the word " ->-bleeped-<-," which is a completely discredited diagnosis even if it does seem to describe what you're experiencing.
Carly, I must agree with Kyril. I think he's right on about your situation. IMO, get counseling, if you can, to get to a place where you are truly comfortable with yourself.
I'm moreorless a "classic transsexual" meaning that dressing in female clothing for me gives me no thrill. It just makes me feel right and normal.
Again, I think Kyril has it right in your case. You can talk to people here to help you as well if counseling is not an option for you at this time. Welcome to Susan's Place.
Lacey Lynne
So a slight update...
One of the things I don't believe I mentioned is that I really haven't dated much over the last 7 years. For some reason, I've been too afraid to do it because I know that, eventually, I'm going to have to admit my preferences to the men I date. Since I am looking for a relationship and present as a man, I really don't have a choice but to date gay men. The straight men than I've been with all say they WOULD date me but, unfortunately, I'm not full time nor am I on hormones and that seems to be the big sticking point, understandably.
So...I met a gay man...who is very sweet, a bit older than I...and he's a make-up artist. I actually disclosed my preferences to him since I feel like I could definitely learn something from him and I also didn't think I would be judged. Turns out...it's extremely exciting for him as well. He's always wanted a boyfriend that he could transform and whatknot and, for some reason, he's always been attracted to trans (but not drag queens).
He says he'd have no problems if i transitioned...etc.
Anyway...I guess there's a part of me that sees this as a big opportunity to find out where I stand. It's someone that can help me look "real" and help me with my wardrobe. And plus, he's a total sweetie.
Of course, nothing seems to change: it's left me completely paralyzed and now I'm scared of this opportunity. It's just so strange. :(
Been having a really rough few days.
Personally...professionally.
All I've been doing is pleasuring myself, thinking of myself as a female. A lot of times, all I have to do is think of myself with a vagina to get off ;(
I just don't know if that means it's a fetish or more.
It tends to happen more and be more serious when I'm depressed. I feel the need to escape much more often. Dare I say it's compulsive. :(
Get help and make sure you explain everything, no matter how embarressing it gets.
I think it is the only way you will get anyway. :D Let the therapist do their job and sort your head out!
It's what they are paid for anyway.
Anyone else interested in giving their opinion? :(
These are some of my favorite transvestites....
Eddie Izzard telling about his breasts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0PZDGOgoM#)
Grayson Perry interview Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-u9Y76Y-I#ws)
I Love 1975 Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDyS9Ipnl4I#)
None of whom I would imagine would ever want to be women....?
If your womanliness is strongly tied in with sexual acts and masterbation.... then I think the clues (to your personal condition) are there....
Being a primary TG XY female is not a top-line sex release thing at all...
It's an inner being self identity issue which is all together different as a subject.....
Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 23, 2010, 07:35:17 PM
These are some of my favorite transvestites....
Eddie Izzard telling about his breasts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0PZDGOgoM#)
Grayson Perry interview Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-u9Y76Y-I#ws)
I Love 1975 Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDyS9Ipnl4I#)
None of whom I would imagine would ever want to be women....?
If your womanliness is strongly tied in with sexual acts and masterbation.... then I think the clues (to your personal condition) are there....
Being a primary TG XY female is not a top-line sex release thing at all...
It's an inner being self identity issue which is all together different as a subject.....
See? Therein lies my confusion. None of them would want to be women....yet it's what i think about and fantasize about. So wouldn't that make me TS?
I dunno. :(
Well, I've decided I want to try something.
A friend of mine told me he'd help me out on New Years if i wanted to go to a party dressed up. It will be a mixed party (straight/gay) but he's very good at makeup and told me he'd help me pick out something to wear.
Also, I started taking finasteride because I told my dr that I'm concerned about my hair line. Well, it's very strange: i feel oddly calm on it. I didn't think it would have ANY effect emotionally on me but...I don't know if that's something I should notate or just think it's a weird coincidence?
Hi Carly
welcome to the forum.
well, i've been thinking and came to the conclusion that no one can say your a tg or not.
How could we make that judgement when a shrink specialized in gender issues need some time for it to find out, and he or she is educated for it.
I should say, find a therapist and try to find out what you are and how to handle with it.
If you're a tg...fine you can do something with it.
If you're a CD with sexual fantasies about it and you're happy with it....also fine.
that's the only thing that's matter, if you can be happy the way you are or not
But without professional help, I don't think you will find out.
sorry i can't say anything better for you
hug
annette
Hi Carly
Thank you for sharing your story, I would imagine it was not easy discussing your most private, personal thoughts and feelings in such an open public way.
Let me ask you one question and you must answer this question straight away without any hesitation. Ready? Do you want to be a woman?
If your answer is what I think it is then your situation is easily explained. Humans and similar life forms, reproduce sexually. We, like all other sexual creatures, are subject to instinctive sexual desire triggered by appropriate criteria. In addition we are intelligent beings, which makes the human body and mind an incredibly complex sentient being. To which we are constantly subject to physical, social, cultural and desires. Which results in us being unique individual beings.
In other words what you are doing is just normal behaviour in the context of your situation and any psychiatrist, psychologist or therapist that says other wise, I would run to the other side of the universe. Why? because sexual pleasure is part of the human physic, whether it is done with a partner or by yourself. The amount of sexual pleasure that one needs varies from human to human and the circumstances that we find ourselves in.
Does it matter how you answered the question I asked you above? No. Does it matter how I think you answered that question? No, it does not. You are entitled (for the want of a better word) to have sexual pleasure, with whatever images, implements or surroundings you wish to use. Why? You are a human being first and foremost and what you do in the privacy of your home is up to you and you alone. Having said that, should your activities interfere to such an extent that they impact on you functioning normally then you should seek some help.
You did ask for opinions and thoughts on the matter you mentioned and my personal opinion is, I think you answered yes to, do you want to be a woman? So what you do, is what thousands of other women do every day. So why do I think you said yes? It's because I sense this from what you have written and what you intend to do. Do what my uncle once said to me and that is to go out and live life as a woman. So go out on New Years Eve and enjoy the evening as a woman.
Take care and all the best for the future.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Sarah,
Thank you for your lengthy response. Wow. I'm seriously overwhelmed by how nice and supportive everyone is on these boards.
Here's the thing: i'm not sure that my immediate answer is "I want to be female." The reason why I say that is because:
a) I don't see myself growing older as a female (although I don't see myself older as a male either)
b) when I look at other women...i don't really admire them or wish i could be them
c) when I think about being a woman, I almost would rather not be around other GG's. I'd rather only be around other TS's.
d) my interest in being a woman mostly has to do with being able to date and be with a man romantically.
So, yes, it's extremely difficult for me and something i struggle with on a daily basis. :( :(
Hi Carly
You are most welcome. If you are not sure, that's ok and people around here at Susan's will support you no matter how you feel or what your decision is in regards to your gender.
I will answer the reasons you wrote down from my perspective
a) Even I do not see myself getting old as a female, I just see myself as just getting old as me. However it does not matter even if I end up looking like an old hag at least I will be female. You have already said you 'do not see yourself getting old as either male or female so this reason really becomes a moot point.
b) Well I admire some some men and women and I don't like some men and women. The most important thing is to be yourself or better still have a look at my signature, which basically says it all!
c) One of our fundamental rights as human beings is to associate with who we want to. So I will support and respect you in your choice. In my private live I do not associate with the community, however after being in the woodwork for 22 years, at least I'm able to contribute to the community in a way that I feel comfortable with.
d) I never was sexually active before I changed and I never was gay at the time. Yes, I did consider or maybe worry what my sexual orientation would be. However, 22 years later I have no doubts about it and I'm just a normal heterosexual woman.
So take each day as it comes and do what you makes you feel most comfortable and maybe just like me accept it with out questioning it. I just accepted what ever I did, did not tell anyone and as a result I never had the confusion or dysphoric feelings that others tend to get.
You can send me a personal message if you want to. Take care and have fun New Year Eves if you do decide to go, let us know how it went?
Kindest regards
Sarah B
To be honest, ->-bleeped-<- was one of my earliest manifestations of my dysphoria. The thought of being a woman was so exciting that it would... excite the male parts as well. This led to a desire to masturbate. I used to not touch my genitals when I masturbated. From the first time I had experienced arousal, I had always used a series of muscle contortions throughout the body to get myself off. I didn't really know about "spanking the monkey" until I heard the guys talking about it in high school. It had never occurred to me to beat the meat, as I had never felt there was any reason for doing something like that.
I eventually wore myself out so much with overmasturbation that only the post-orgasm euphoria was left. In this state of calmness, I wanted to be female even moreso. With the erection gone, there was nothing to distract my mind from what it really wanted.
Maybe this information helps. I dunno.
Quote from: Carly on July 12, 2010, 02:38:48 PM
However, every time I dressed up, there as always something tight around my waist and I would squeeze my legs together and, although I didn't know it at the time, I was creating an orgasm. All I knew was that it felt amazing, like nothing I had ever felt before, and I became addicted.
...
all of my fantasies regarding my gender are always sexual. There is never a time when I just daydream without it being sexual. Now, when I say that, I don't mean that they always involve another person. My fantasies could simply be about starting hormones or laying on a beach in a bikini or just having breasts. All of those things could turn me on
...
it's not just a sexual thrill from the clothes. My fantasies rarely revolve around the clothing itself. It's more about the lifestyle and the image. When I am intimate, most times I'm not able to end the situation unless I think of myself as a woman. I don't need to be dressed up to fulfill the fantasy.
...
I just don't know if that means it's a fetish or more.
It tends to happen more and be more serious when I'm depressed. I feel the need to escape much more often. Dare I say it's compulsive.
Hi Carly,
Welcome to the forum.
I have copied the snippets from your posts as these are the snippets I think are relevant to what I am writing below.
First, I must say that I related a lot to what you are saying above especially the things you mentioned from age 6-7 through 10. Around age 6, I started feeling sexually aroused and orgasming imagining myself to be female. It was not about the clothes. It was about the imagination that I was female. The clothes did help, more so later on when it became harder to see the female in the mirror. I did not need to imagine a partner. All that mattered to my sexual fantasies was that I was female. And to this date, it has been hard to completely untangle my sexuality from my gender.
I too have wondered if it was just a fetish, an addiction, a compulsion, an obsession, etc. However, I do recall the pre-age-6 period during which I did feel that I should have been a girl. That is the evidence I use to justify to myself that there is more to my gender than the sexuality-based fantasies. And although the gender of my partner does not matter to my orgasms today, I seem to be aroused by women only.
Perhaps you could take a few steps back, focus on some non-sexual non-gender-specific interests and passions you may have, for a while. It will help you see things better. A therapist could help you too, but a therapist can primarily help you notice what you already know about yourself but did not notice. You need to know more about yourself. That is the tough part. And it takes time. A therapist can also help a bit with this by helping you focus and learn about yourself.
As for your questions about whether you are autogynaephilic or transexual or anything else, it would do you a lot of good to ignore categories. There aren't sufficient categories in our human languages to encompass the diversity of human beings. Instead of trying to fit in with or belong to a category, you could benefit from starting to accept yourself just the way you are.
In simple words, there is nothing wrong with you. Even if you are transexual or a fetishist or an autogynaephiliac, you are not exactly "suffering", because these are not diseases. So please let go of the thought that there is something wrong with you. What you have is perfectly normal. You are you. You might want to focus on building more self-esteem and gaining more self-acceptance.
Once you get to that point of self-acceptance, you will find a lot more peace. Until you get there, please do nothing. Do not start on hormones until you get there. And do not go too much further than you absolutely need to. Just because you figure out you are transexual, you do not have to transition right away. Just because you figure out that you need to transition, you do not have to go all the way.
You do not have to transition in order to find a male partner. You could probably be gay, not trans, and you may not have found a male partner who is right for you yet. It does take a long time for most people to find the right match. It is hard, but most people go through these dating difficulties.
Until you can find better answers, try to accept yourself. Masturbation is perfectly normal and healthy. You do not have to feel dirty or ashamed about it or about any part of your body. Fantasies are great too and indicate that you have good imagination. Being addicted may be an issue, but you could find another interest and hobby to distract yourself. Fetishes are okay too, and most people have some. And as long as your compulsion or obsession do not hurt yourself or another person, they could be managed too with minor behavioral changes. These are topics which a qualified therapist would discuss with you. And if you want to share, you could do so on susans too.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: marissak on December 29, 2010, 09:50:15 PM
I did not need to imagine a partner. All that mattered to my sexual fantasies was that I was female.
Same thing here. When I did imagine a partner, it was a male. But most of the time my sexual fantasies involved me stimulating myself (but being female in the fantasy)
Quote from: VeryGnawty on December 30, 2010, 12:13:26 AM
Same thing here. When I did imagine a partner, it was a male. But most of the time my sexual fantasies involved me stimulating myself (but being female in the fantasy)
And have you transitioned? or started to?