What do we know about the actual person of Mary? Surely there were people who could have verified her virginity or not? Was the virgin birth an original part of Christianity?
Note: Since religion is always a charged topic, please try to keep replies civil.
Virgin birth in the bible did not mean without sex. It meant pregnancy before marriage. Got that from a christian seminar by Victor Paul Weirwille.
The story of a deity impregnating a woman, and then her giving birth to that very same deity, though, far predates Christianity. I've only encountered it elsewhere in (older) celtic-oriented religions, though. Black-sea district to Greece to Rome to France to Ireland.
I think the idea that Jesus is the incarnation of YHWH is definitely not christian in origin, and the 'miracle birth' isn't, either. Other than that, I side with KAT. :)
On the other hand.. I'm not a christian. The good side of this: My lack of belief allows me to be a bit less biased. The bad side: My lack of belief makes my thoughts to a believer a lot less valid. So... Well; do with it what you like. ;)
There is definitely something about Mary
I love that movie! Hahahaha!
Mary was not with out sin. It mention that she did what was required under the law after Jesus was born. That is that she had to give sacrifice in the temple for the issuance of blood.
So if she was not without sin, then why should we believe she was a virgin. And even if she was that does not mean she did not have sex with Joseph.
I wasn't actually around in Mary's day, but a friend of mine often said...
"If you's ain't a sinner... then you's prob. a beginner" :laugh: >:-) :laugh:
Personally, I take the story of Mary in the same breath as may other stories, such as the resurection. Interesting, yet ultimately not important.
What matters is what Jesus taught.
The problem for the churches, is they need people to regularly attend, they need people to listen to their directives, especially to go off to war and they need people to give them their money.
Letting people know that Jesus said we don't need to go to church, that the law is incredably simple, that we must never kill and that we are not answerable to any man, does kinda undermine most churches.
Yeesh, for a bunch of proto-feminists ya'll sure be missing da' point. Which is... Mary is the incarnation of the female, of the goddess, without which Christianity would not have been able to grow into a world-wide, almost beyond time cancer institution.
People respond to the sacred feminine, to that idea of miracle of birth, of regeneration, of renewal, and Mary is the incorporation of that into Christianity. Christianity was most excellent at taking the holidays, rituals, believes and symbols of other cults and superstitions religions, and incorporating them into the larger framework.
That's all old Mary is, just the way the Catholic Church put the feminine into Catholicism.
Many of the early creation myths in several cultures have miraculous births. If you look into the Greek myths in particular they were very focused on virgin birth bringing the new spring 'deity' into being, the old deity was (usually) sacrificed. This was followed in ritual at least in the Greek myths.
One point of interest is the recent findings of how far traveled (some) people had been. So the idea that interventional thought is a way that religion propagated, rather than by messaging by presumably, impressive people needs to be considered.
It may mean Missionary's have been around for a long time. I suppose that if I'm brave enough to travel from (now) Spain to the UK to sell 'stuff' my gods must be pretty good in protecting me, maybe you should try them, type of attitude.
I do not mean in any way to disparage anyone's religious beliefs. This post has nothing to do about religion, belief or faith. It is purely an historical comment.
Cindy
I see the 'virgin birth' as nothing more than the incarnation of an age-old story that has been found in many different religions, especially religions that came before Christianity.
If Mary was real, which I believe she was, then she wasn't a virgin in the sense that most people think about. Jesus, to me, is not the 'Son of God' or God himself incarnated and had no more a miraculous birth than that of anyone else from that time period.
(I'm slightly Catholic, but also slightly other things and find no issue believing any of this.)