Recently I had reconnected with an old high school friend of mine, actually grew up playing sports with him. We hung out a bunch of times, clearly just as friends, I thought everything was fine. He introduced me to a few of his new friends, which was awefully nice of him. One way or another, it became known to his new group of friends that I had transitioned, and basically treated me as I was a lepar afterwards. Now my friend is ignoring me completely, as if I never existed. Some friend... right?
Anyone here know people like this?
Sorry about the vent, I just had to let it out somewhere.
I'm sorry to hear about this incident but seriously, and I really don't mean to to be disrespectful here, but what did you expect? I've been at this game for 15 years and believe me when I tell you, you can't trust anybody with this issue. Period.
In order for me to have lived my life as female and to be known completely as female, I have had to give up everything of my past--everything! Except for family of course who, in my case, were very accepting of me.
So, if you want this to happen again, by all means tell someone else. For the life of me, I just can't understand why you would want to tell anyone. Judging by your photo, you are very passable and very attractive to boot. You have to ask yourself a question. Do you want to be known as a woman or do you want to be know as the woman who used to be a guy? If you chose the former--to be known as a woman--then there are sacrifices to be made. You just can't have it both ways.
Sorry if I come across as a bitch, but I've been there many times over and I'm getting tired of hearing this same old story over and over. As a transsexual you just can't have your cake and eat it too!
Signed,
The very mean and evil Kristyn >:-)
It's no problem. I appreciate a direct response. The thing was, I didn't even tell any of his friends about the transition, so it would have had to be him.
Although, whatever. Someone like that shouldn't be worthy of being a friend anyway.
QuoteAlthough, whatever. Someone like that shouldn't be worthy of being a friend anyway.
exactly . friends must be chosen very carefully . i'm one of those who have very few friends but each one of them is very carefully selected to be worthy to be called my friend .
also i strongly believe that the transition issue is something that has to be kept secret at all times . for a lot of reasons , least of them that if known it might cause all conversations orbiting around the subject .except to someone you would be deeply and seriously involved with just for the sake of healthy relationship with no surprises. so if it was me i'd just forget and leave my past behind as a bad chunk , only take with me those who i really trust and can depend on
and on a separate note , you are incredibly gorgeous :)
Hmmm. This has me a little concerned. In two weeks I will visit a childhood friend. She knows of my transition, of course, and I sent her a couple of pictures, but she hasn't met me as Kate yet. Hopefully she and her husband are only one-faced.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on July 15, 2010, 07:28:48 PM
Hmmm. This has me a little concerned. In two weeks I will visit a childhood friend. She knows of my transition, of course, and I sent her a couple of pictures, but she hasn't met me as Kate yet. Hopefully she and her husband are only one-faced.
- Kate
Well, I would only meet up with her first, and just get a feel for things. Depending on how things go is whether or not I'd see her husband. I've found that women seem to be more accepting of the truth than men do. Call it homophobic or macho tendencies...
Hi Blondwidowspider
I'm also sorry and I really don't mean to to be disrespectful in what I have to say either. Having to put up with this type of behavior, is inexcusable and that your friend is really not your friend anymore and by the sounds of his actions, its seems he is being pressured by his peers not to see you anymore.
Kristyn has basically said what I would have said and also reflects what I did.
I also gave up my friends and family 21 years ago and I did so that I could also live my life as a female. You tell anyone about your privacy and what you are going to do and you will no longer have control over what happens to that information.
I told no one, but my family found out from one uncle who knew. However, I will be grateful to my family for accepting me unconditionally for who I am and as Kristyn said "believe you me when I tell you, you can't trust anybody with this issue". You can't. I basically trust no one in regards to my privacy on this issue.
Tell no one as it is none of their bloody business and the only time you tell anyone is when you are with a long time intimate partner or when a relevant medical condition arises. Did I tell any of the doctors that were involved in my recent breast scan? No.
Kristyn said it succinctly:
Quote from: Kristyn on July 15, 2010, 06:17:58 PM
So, if you want this to happen again, by all means tell someone else. For the life of me, I just can't understand why you would want to tell anyone. Judging by your photo, you are very passable and very attractive to boot. You have to ask yourself a question. Do you want to be known as a woman or do you want to be know as the woman who used to be a guy? If you chose the former--to be known as a woman--then there are sacrifices to be made. You just can't have it both ways.
I would add to this, do you want to be known as a woman or do you want to be know as a Trans* whatever women? If you chose the former and I hope you do, because you are beautiful and you have gone through a lot of trouble get to the stage where you are now. Then please, please keep your mouth shut in regards to your personal privacy on this issue and live your life as a female.
Kristyn is not a bitch, but she is stating some hard core truths and again I agree with her also that, I'm absolutely frustrated by hearing this same old story over and over. Girls being 'outed', by whoever, because they told someone about their past.
Ultimately it is your choice on who you tell. However, you have to live with the consequences.
Kindest regards
Sarah B
I'm sorry that so many of you have had bad experiences and feel/felt the need to disassociate yourself from your past. Not everyone needs to or feels the need to do that.
I don't expect any problems when I visit my friend and her husband. I'll let you know how it goes.
So far, my experience has been very good – perhaps unusual. I live in a small town and my transition is too recent for it to be any kind of secret. Still, all of my family, friends, neighbors, church people, acquaintances, and the people I do business with (doctor, insurance agent, hairdresser, etc.) have been completely accepting with three exceptions – three men in town don't want to talk to me anymore. Everyone else accepts it at some level – from "whatever makes you happy" to "I think it's wonderful that you can be yourself at last." I think that they accept, respect, and perhaps like me primarily as a person. That I am male, female, trans, whatever is secondary. Do they see me as a transwoman? Perhaps. Does it make a lot of difference to them? Probably not. Is it a topic of conversation? Now and then. Does it make a lot of difference to me? No.
Yes, this experience is perhaps unusual. But I think just as I realize that not everyone is accepted by all of those around them, perhaps you can realize that not everyone feels the need to cut all ties with their past.
- Kate
blondwidowspider, :)
What jerk your [ex]friend is. Obviously his other friend's opinions mean more to him than your friendship. It's a sad fact of life that some people listen to rubbish and take it on board and cannot make their own decisions and live with it.
Hopefully he will realise in years to come that he was wrong, but unfortunately you will probably never learn of this.
Sorry that this happened, I know it must of hurt and come as a shock. :(
EDIT: Original post addressed to wrong person, sorry. :)
Hi K8
No one knew, my thoughts and feelings that were going through my mind at the time (except of course my uncle) and I kept it that way because of the nature of the problem and the times that I lived in. I also knew instinctively that my course of action was the best at the time (I might do things differently today, but I doubt it).
I had very few close friends and that is my nature. Knowing the nature and what little I had read at the time, taking into consideration that I'm a very private person and I cared deeply for my family and friends and what I was about to do, I did not want them to be subject to any humiliation of what I was going to do.
However, things do not turn out the way we expect them to turn out, my psychologist even was telling me to come out to my family and I was very reluctant to come out and told him so, but at that stage, my family had already found out and with good fortune, they love and care for me deeply.
I had a very close high school friend and she happened to see one of my pictures before I changed and wonder what happened to me, but my cousin kept on calling me by my current name, which of course spilled the beans so to speak. I did catch up with her and her husband (I also knew him) and they were totally accepting and understanding and it was a lovely reunion. However, she did tell others, but I live extremely far away now so it does not really matter.
The annoying (or bad) experiences that I have experienced has been very few and far between, every time I have adjusted what I do so that those experiences become less and less with time.
I'm not disassociated from my family now, although that was what was going to happen originally.
Its good to hear that your friends and family accept you for who you are, a wonderful, caring person.
Take care and best wishes
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: Sarah B on July 15, 2010, 11:26:45 PM
No one knew, my thoughts and feelings that were going through my mind at the time (except of course my uncle) and I kept it that way because of the nature of the problem and the times that I lived in. I also knew instinctively that my course of action was the best at the time (I might do things differently today, but I doubt it).
Things definitely were different 15 years ago when I began my transition. I seem to forget that the majority of those on this board have only been living in role for a few years at best. I also forget that it's been fifteen years of living full time for me. I really don't even know what it was like to feel and live as male. Set aside from the little bag of marbles between my legs which are soon to be gone, I'm woman through and through--I live it, I feel it, I breathe it 24/7--and I don't have to dress like it, I don't have to do my hair, and I don't have to wear make-up, it is just who I am and people accept that as well. And for those that can't see that, I pay no mind to--although I don't really seem to have any issues with people reading me anymore. Would I do things differently if I were to transition today? Probably not. However, there are things I wish I could have/should have done like pay last respects and condolences to relatives :(
I recently trusted a friend with personal information and feelings because he was so nice and treated me so well, but then I find out that he has blabbed everything I've ever told him (plus made up some stuff) to everyone he could think of - even crossing international borders!
It is not easy to pick a good and trustworthy friend. To bad we don't have some sort of friendar to sort out the bad apples.
I am sorry that you have all had such bad experiences. However for the sake of balance I must briefly record that, despite Kristyn's prediction, I have not encountered this.
I have re-hooked up with many friends from the past including school and although there are some with whom after a time the friendship has died a second time there are to my knowledge no incidents of the sort of poisonous behaviour that you encountered. I am still viewed by all of them as a woman purely and simply, in fact in some cases I have had to remind them of certain things to explain, for example, why I never became a mother.
The only reasons to explain this difference that I can find are that obviously in their 40's and 50's my friends are now well past the social inexperience of youth, and indeed as my transition took place slowly and openly over my entire childhood and early twenties I suppose that all my friends knew that I was trans before they ever became my friends. So I suppose that to them it isn't quite as shocking as it would be to someone who befriended you thinking you were one thing only to then find out you are something else.
Maybe I'm just lucky because starting transitioning at age 5 and slowly, but very openly in regards to telling people what I was trying to achieve, morphing from aged 5 to 24 I simply literally don't have any pre-transition friends. Everyone knew what I was from the day we met.
Hmmm - as I've been writing this I've just realised for the first time how much of a difference that may have really made to my life experiences. But I still feel really sorry for those of you who find yourselves cut off from your past in that way. It can't be an easy or an emotionally comfortable way to live.
I haven't had any friends I have come out to blab. But then again as Jenny pointed out I'm an old tart :laugh: and my friends are way past the socially inept stage (or at least I hope so :laugh:).
But I also have to agree that there is a very fine line in stealth and wanting to meet people we liked and enjoyed time with in the past.
Kristyn puts forward a very strong argument. I think a number of people have posted that " I am not a trans anything, I am a woman accept me as one" In reality I think the only way to do that is to have no past of TG.
But it is a very personal choice. Will Mum blab at the hairdressers when some one asks " How is steve" "He's fine but he is called Stephanie now".
But a "friend" who blabs is simply not a friend. Wipe them of the Xmas card list.
JMO
Cindy
Sarah B,
I looked seriously into transitioning in the early 80s but realized it wasn't possible for me at that time because I wasn't strong enough to handle the difficulties I would have faced then. I have nothing but admiration for the girls who had the strength and courage to transition years ago. I don't mean to criticize in any way how anyone manages to do it.
We each do this is our own way. Each of us runs into people who are not kind and for some reason feel the need to pull themselves up by putting others down. I think my point (if I had a point :P) was only to point out that each of our situations is different and so we perhaps can remember that each of us has to manage this a little differently.
I've been very lucky. I wish everyone the same luck. And as several pointed out – age has its advantages. :)
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on July 16, 2010, 08:10:57 AM
I've been very lucky. I wish everyone the same luck. And as several pointed out – age has its advantages. :)
I think we've all been lucky to some extent and we should all be grateful that we don't live in a part of the world that buries people like us up to their necks and tosses stones at them.
Hi K8
I know you are not criticizing and everybody's path is different given the circumstances that surround them and I have become more aware of this since I have been on Susan's. I never really had any bad experiences, I was young (if 30 was young :) ) and there was no big plan or whatever, It seems I just did it. Whatever needing doing got done and that was just the way it turned out.
I admire you because you changed late in life and your community accepts you. I do not have the fortitudinal guts to let anyone know about me, so you are a much stronger person in that sense. Thankfully everybody is different, because the antithesis of this is everybody would be 'plain old Jane'. ;D
Ok I will bite, you said "age has its advantages". How? I'm still very young and I have a lot to learn in this life.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: blondwidowspider on July 15, 2010, 05:46:59 PM
Recently I had reconnected with an old high school friend of mine, actually grew up playing sports with him. We hung out a bunch of times, clearly just as friends, I thought everything was fine. He introduced me to a few of his new friends, which was awefully nice of him. One way or another, it became known to his new group of friends that I had transitioned, and basically treated me as I was a lepar afterwards. Now my friend is ignoring me completely, as if I never existed. Some friend... right?
Anyone here know people like this?
Sorry about the vent, I just had to let it out somewhere.
Sorry you had to go through that hon. Some people are real jerks. >:(
I've had no cruel friends, only sad ones. :-\ My best friend in the world for many years, a woman, is still having a very hard time letting go of the "guy" that was her best friend for so long, even though she was not surprised at all and pretty much knew what was up for some time. I understand there is a grieving stage but honestly it breaks my heart. It's part of the price we pay, or at least that I've paid, to complete my transition and find some kind of peace within myself. And I have, too: I've never felt so good in my life as I do now, post-surgery. I feel cured of a life-long affliction. But I'm still dealing with the grief my friends, and it's hard because I know what they are feeling. I just wish they could know that in my heart I still love them, and that hasn't changed at all.
Quote from: Kristyn on July 15, 2010, 06:17:58 PM
I'm sorry to hear about this incident but seriously, and I really don't mean to to be disrespectful here, but what did you expect? I've been at this game for 15 years and believe me when I tell you, you can't trust anybody with this issue. Period.
In order for me to have lived my life as female and to be known completely as female, I have had to give up everything of my past--everything! Except for family of course who, in my case, were very accepting of me.
So, if you want this to happen again, by all means tell someone else. For the life of me, I just can't understand why you would want to tell anyone. Judging by your photo, you are very passable and very attractive to boot. You have to ask yourself a question. Do you want to be known as a woman or do you want to be know as the woman who used to be a guy? If you chose the former--to be known as a woman--then there are sacrifices to be made. You just can't have it both ways.
Sorry if I come across as a bitch, but I've been there many times over and I'm getting tired of hearing this same old story over and over. As a transsexual you just can't have your cake and eat it too!
Signed,
The very mean and evil Kristyn >:-)
Great words of wisdom. Way too many people know my business!!
Yes, I've unfortunately encountered this too. As much as people might be enlightened, "politically correct", or educated; there is just so much stigmatization regarding transgendered people that it's difficult for a lot of people to overcome. And I don't know about you, but my life is difficult enough that I don't feel like it's my job to pick through peoples' prejudices and educate them about all things trans.
I have befriended people who after I got to know believed I was 100% female (which I am of course). I came out at some point because I wanted to talk more freely about my past and afterwards they acted completely different towards me. Some didn't want anything to do with me. After having these experiences, I have found it's almost always best policy that upon meeting someone new to never tell them about my TG past. It doesn't matter if they are straight or gay or lesbian, almost all have treated me differently afterwards. Trans, of course, is different, and I have lots of trans friends. We're in the same club, but again there are some transpeople who have hang-ups about other transpeople, which is a whole other topic.
I like Kristyn's quote about not being able to have your cake and eat it too. If you can pull off stealth, it's something to strongly consider. There are some who have a hard time pulling it off and I still support them. But, I have my life too and have to take care of it.
Quote from: Kristyn on July 16, 2010, 09:44:22 AM
I think we've all been lucky to some extent and we should all be grateful that we don't live in a part of the world that buries people like us up to their necks and tosses stones at them.
Kristyn
We have people on this board who do live in such countries. I admire thier courage and determination to live thier lives as they feel they should. This usually means leaving their country, family and friends behind.
More power to those guys and girls in this unfortunate and difficult situation.
Shelly
xx
Due to moving around alot when I was young, and because I come from a very large city, I don't know
anyone from my past, other than family.
I also transitioned fairly young, and have been "me" for far more years, than I was that other person.
I am a staunch advocate for stealth, at least as it regards me, though I fully understand other people's
reasons to disclose.
Compound that wiith my being post op, and I would not confide my past to someone unless I planned on
being in a relationship with them.
blondwidowspider, I truly empathize and commiserate with you, as I know how it feels to have a trust
betrayed, thus this is another reason I am loath to disclose my herstory.
Quote from: blondwidowspider on July 15, 2010, 05:46:59 PM
Recently I had reconnected with an old high school friend of mine, actually grew up playing sports with him. We hung out a bunch of times, clearly just as friends, I thought everything was fine. He introduced me to a few of his new friends, which was awefully nice of him. One way or another, it became known to his new group of friends that I had transitioned, and basically treated me as I was a lepar afterwards. Now my friend is ignoring me completely, as if I never existed. Some friend... right?
Anyone here know people like this?
Sorry about the vent, I just had to let it out somewhere.
How old are you and how long have you been post op?
I'm sorry this happened! My advice is when this type of thing happens, whether it has anything to do with your transition, just pick up and move on from the person. He obviously doesn't care enough about you and doesn't deserve your attention or care. In high school I had so many different friends and as of now I only have one person I call my friend, aside from acquaintances. She's the only one who deserves to be my friend. I'm not sure why, but I can be very cold when I need to be. I'm usually a very loving and compassionate girl but when I need to do things such as end friendships, I just do it. No matter how sad it makes me. I'm also lucky to have two sisters who are also my best friends. Another thing I want to add is, I hope my transition goes as well as yours has! You look amazing! And you're blonde!!!! :D
Quote from: blondwidowspider on July 15, 2010, 06:24:02 PM
It's no problem. I appreciate a direct response. The thing was, I didn't even tell any of his friends about the transition, so it would have had to be him.
Although, whatever. Someone like that shouldn't be worthy of being a friend anyway.
Someone like that? In my own experience... EVERYONE is like that. If you want to be known as a woman instead of a woman who used to be a dude then you have to stop the telling at the source, the source being you.
In my experience NOBODY can be trusted and you will always be disappointed in someone (given time and the right circumstances).
I determined to live like a woman instead of living like someone with a secret. It is a change in consciousness.
I don't live like someone with a secret. I live as who I am - a person and a woman. All of my friends, all of my family, and all of my regular acquaintances know that I used to live as a man, but all accept me as the person and the woman I am.
People I meet who didn't know me before accept me as a woman and as a person. If they would ask if I used to be a man I would tell them that I used to have a male body but was never really a man. I don't have secrets. I really like living without secrets after all these years of hiding parts of me. For me, becoming Kate meant that I could live openly as myself at last.
But we each have to deal with this to suit ourselves and our situations. As with anything in life YMMV.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on August 08, 2010, 08:09:49 AM
But we each have to deal with this to suit ourselves and our situations. As with anything in life YMMV.
In my experience this is true. But also... I realized that people who knew my past were able to prevent me from discovering myself further. Once I was able to get away from people who knew my past, the journey continued.
Hi, I'm new here and maybe my two cents aren't welcome but here goes. I had srs in 2004 and the journey before and after has been fraught with ups and downs. A few of the very best years of my life were experienced after transition. So were a few of my worst.
To the OP, all I can say is I really feel for you. He wasn't the first friend who'll hurt you and he won't be the last. He was certainly a jerk and doesn't deserve you for a friend. You know that. You'll keep telling yourself that for every friend, past, present and future who'll betray your trust. I only hope you have a network of supporting friends and family in whom you CAN trust. Do anything you can to hold on to that. You won't be able to bear the pain without them.
As far as the best advice? A few years ago, I'd have recommended not telling anyone but maybe a prospective lover and I'd have been adamant about it. Now, I'm not so sure. One of my more recent experiences was my participation in a predominantly male dominated activity. I belonged to that group for two years before someone discovered my "secret." In spite of being very popular in the group and well liked, one person did some searching on the internet. In spite of my best efforts to not reveal anything through social networking and personally identifiable information, someone had enough suspicion to "investigate." You just can't run from public record. The pull away from me was palpable. The friendly kiss_on_the_cheek greetings ceased. All conversations became awkward. The pervasive fear of impending physical harm was more than I could bear. I left the group without incident a few weeks later.
The point is, in this day and age, it may be unreasonable to expect pure stealth. Especially with the popularity of social online networking and readily available public record. I think there is a good and valid argument that one should try and forge as many friendships as possible. To withhold your "secret" is to project a dishonesty in the eyes of many. I think it unjustified, but it matters little. People will think what they will with or without righteous justification. Yet, I still find it difficult to bring myself to divulge my past. Somehow it seems like that simple act alone nullifies being a woman.
For me, it's a trade off. Do I sever all ties with my past (most of that was kindly provided by my loved ones) and provide myself the best chance for a successful transition? Or, do I try to hedge my bets by taking satisfaction in the physical aspects of transition and openly pronouncing, "I'm a transsexual?" This is what I've discovered to be an unspoken, unexpected and undesired reality about transition. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I will say this... living without a stable and reliable social network is the most unimaginable pain one can endure. I contend it's even worse than the pain of gender dysphoria because at the heart of our transition we desire above all else, that people accept and love us for who we are. It is the hope of that that keeps us working toward transition.
How we achieve that social network is uniquely our own path. No one should fault you for doing what you have to to meet that end. My sincere best wishes.
Cher
Quote from: blondwidowspider on July 15, 2010, 05:46:59 PM
Recently I had reconnected with an old high school friend of mine, actually grew up playing sports with him. We hung out a bunch of times, clearly just as friends, I thought everything was fine. He introduced me to a few of his new friends, which was awefully nice of him. One way or another, it became known to his new group of friends that I had transitioned, and basically treated me as I was a lepar afterwards. Now my friend is ignoring me completely, as if I never existed. Some friend... right?
Anyone here know people like this?
Sorry about the vent, I just had to let it out somewhere.
wow Story of My life hunny.
I never try to pursue friend relationships with men for this reason.
They all (at least here in Detroit) are amazing and great men to my face, then treat me like a sideshow attraction with their friends.