Hi, just wondering because i feel like a bit of a freak. I have (or did) identify as lesbian for many years before i transitioned, have never had an experience with a man, but now I'm under the influence of the mighty testosterone have suddenly had the overwhelming urge(?) to explore my other side, that is, men. It has gone from wanting to look like them to actually occasionally being attracted to them. I can't decide if this is just unrealized curiosity or actually sexual attraction. It is very difficult as i have a loving female partner and I in no way want to hurt her, just don't quite know what to do with this attraction. Anyone out there had similar experiences once on T and if so, what did you do? Gah!
I am MTF but I will gatecrash as my mate is on T and as a former member in the male club I have been exposed to the stuff.
T makes you horny. Pure and simple. It also seems to lower sexual inhibitions and broaden one's definition of potential sexual partners. Not everyone has this experiance but it is common enough to point at it.
Ride with it. Have some fun explore your sexuality but PLAY IT SAFE!!!
Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 09:22:49 AM
Opps it escaped me you have a mate....
Time for a serious heart to heart.
Yeah, thought that might be the case. It's crazy! me and my lovely girlfriend have had very frank chats about it, but it is still a bit of a mind#%&&. I don't really get it. :embarrassed:
Since I'm in an honest mood and any inhibitions are basically non-existent I'll just say it's going the opposite way for me. I identified as a gay male for so long but now that I've started on T it's girls that are starting to turn my head.
It's not that I don't like guys. Hmm, yes I do love them but girls are suddenly so much more fascinating. I want to touch their soft rounded bodies. I think part of it is that now I don't see myself as one of them but on the fringes. I know I am of a different gender. Which makes them like a previously unexplored species I want to get my mouth on.
All thanks to T I am sure. Wonderful extraordinary Testosterone!
Fair enough! they are certainly beautiful and lovely creatures! Ah the idiosyncrasies of the mighty T! :) Interesting that it can go the other way too. As a gay guy friend of mine once very crassly (but perhaps aptly said when talking about guys- "any hole is a goal" not that i am in any way inferring that about you (or me or anyone! for that matter!) but it kinda makes sense when thinking about guys vs girls sex drives. like the joke about gay guys and second dates: "what second date?" Testosterone sometimes feels like an all consuming hormone! I saw Henry Rollins in concert recently (look him up he is an amazing spoken word artist) an he talked about it being almost something that you needed to get rid of (you know what i mean) in order to get on with the day. I get that now. 8)
The way you put it in the title made me want to throw bricks at you. I instantly thought, "No, we're not lesbians. we're men. If we're attracted to women, it's straight." But pardon my spazzing. I tend to do that.
I've always liked both. Now that I'm on T I'd like to try out a sexual experience with a man. Mainly cause sex with women feels all wrong cause I can't penetrate. If I took it in the butt, to me, it would feel more like male sex. cause I refuse to use anythign artifical during sex, I won't use anything other than my own dick to penetrate a girl and it's not big enough for that yet. I identify as pansexual though. Meaning I don't consider gender in someone I'm attracted to.
ah! wow it's like you read my mind. :) So don't throw bricks at me!
I don't think that T will change your sexual orientation - it just makes you more horny. I am a genetic male with deficient T, and I thought starting T would make me attracted to girls, but it just made me more interested in guys. As Cynthia said, it will also lower your inhibitions. I mean, bless their hearts, when guys get horny enough without an outlet, they will just about get it on with a tree! As Steve Harvey says in his book, "guys need the cookie!"
Best wishes Millsy. When I dared to discuss gender and sexuality in the same thread, I got blasted out of the water. Maybe you will have better luck.
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on July 16, 2010, 11:35:20 AM
The way you put it in the title made me want to throw bricks at you. I instantly thought, "No, we're not lesbians. we're men. If we're attracted to women, it's straight." But pardon my spazzing. I tend to do that.
Lol! I reacted the same way too...but I wasn't going to go all "RAWHH!! HULK SMASH!" on him.
But it's kinda weird for me. Since 7th grade I have always identified myself as bisexual, but through the whole transitioning phase I am leaning in more so as a straight man rather than a bisexual man. However, please note that I am not yet on T (Not for a few months). But I would have to agree with most people whom have already responded to this topic; it probably just makes your horny, the T.
You know, I was going to ask a similar question but in the opposite direction. I've heard from some websites that T changes/can change your sexual orientation. (I've also heard that that's a myth) Did a lot of you notice a change in who you're attracted to, then? I'm curious because it just doesn't seem likely to me (for me). I've only ever been attracted to men, and I can't even look at female nudity in movies because it squicks me.
It better not make me bi. I was just getting comfortable with being gay.
I seriously doubt it will, though. It might make me willing to experiment, but I just don't have what it takes to be in a relationship with a woman - and I know enough gay guys to know that being willing to sleep with women occasionally in the absence of better options doesn't make you bi.
Quote from: kyril on July 16, 2010, 02:22:22 PM
It better not make me bi. I was just getting comfortable with being gay.
I seriously doubt it will, though. It might make me willing to experiment, but I just don't have what it takes to be in a relationship with a woman - and I know enough gay guys to know that being willing to sleep with women occasionally in the absence of better options doesn't make you bi.
I've noticed this as well with gay men and it makes me wonder just what makes someone gay? Is it because your first choice as a sex partner is always a man? Or is it because they would only consider a man for a long term relationship. As opposed to just a one night stand?
I know some gay men who make literal gagging noises at the sight of a nude female breast. As if they can't stand the sight and wouldn't get within 15 yards if they had the choice. I suspect that's a lot of playing acting. Then there are others who enjoy laying their head on them or playfully bouncing them around. Those are the ones who sometimes end up sleeping with women if the mood takes them. Still they loudly declare themselves to be completely gay.
So I don't know. Is the first group not as comfortable with themselves and their sexuality as the second group who doesn't mind being more fluid? Is bisexuality such a disgraced state that they would rather not face facts then be bisexual? I know a lot of people say that bisexuality doesn't even exist. With a lot of pseudo-science to back up their claims. For the record I do believe it exists and is sadly maligned within gay culture.
I'm sorry if my questions seem blunt. No offence intended. I've honestly been wondering and considering these things.
It's important to remember you're going through a second puberty. During puberty things can sometimes be very confusing because of all the hormones raging through your body. So you could be bisexual, but you could also just being a 'teenager'.
There are quite a few FTMs that started off with attraction to women/men, got curious during the first year/months or so on T, but then came to the conclusion that they were just curious and then it went away. In some cases, it's not just a phase and they were able to find something out about themselves or admit it to themselves.
T has only amplified my interest in women. My orientation is the same, but what you're going through is 'normal' if that helps.
Quote from: Squirrel698 on July 16, 2010, 02:44:49 PM
I've noticed this as well with gay men and it makes me wonder just what makes someone gay? Is it because your first choice as a sex partner is always a man? Or is it because they are thinking men are the ones they want for a long term relationship and not just a one night stand?
I know some gay men who make literal gagging noises at the sight of a nude female breast. As if they can't stand the sight and wouldn't get within 15 yards if they had the choice. I suspect that's a lot of playing acting. Then there are others who enjoy laying their head on them or playfully bouncing them around. Those are the ones who sometimes end up sleeping with women if the mood takes them. Still they loudly declare themselves to be completely gay.
So I don't know. Is the first group not as comfortable with themselves and their sexuality as the second group who doesn't mind being more fluid? Is bisexuality such a disgraced state that they would rather not face facts then be bisexual. I know a lot of people say that bisexuality doesn't even exist.
I'm sorry if my questions seem blunt. No offence intended. I've honestly been wondering and considering these things.
You're on the right track. Men's sexualities are generally best thought of as relationship orientations rather than purely sexual orientations. Most men (even the ones who gag at the sight of a breast, or a penis if they're straight) are physically capable of having sex with almost anyone - the more desperate we are, the lower on our list of "preferred partners" we're willing to go, and sometimes "attractive friend of the wrong gender" looks like a lot more fun than "unattractive potentially-psycho stranger in an alley." We're not, however, capable of having a healthy
relationship (or even an emotionally satisfying one-night stand) that conflicts with our orientation. Gay male relationships are fundamentally, deeply different from heterosexual ones even if you consider only long-term monogamous marriage-like relationships on both sides - and there are lots of gay men for whom that isn't the right structure at all.
And yeah, there are some gay men who acknowledge playing sexually with women, and there are some who don't (unlike on the straight side where basically no man will acknowledge same-sex play). But I don't think any of that has anything to do with real bisexuality. Gay male biphobia/bi-denial is centered around the issue of young gay men identifying as bi when they're not. Which does happen - when you're young and gay and not getting any, even girls start to look ok, and a lot of biphobes are basing their opinions on that fact. My experience is actually that biphobes/bi-denialists are more common among gay men who do play with women than among ones who don't, because they know from experience that you can find women attractive while being thoroughly gay.
my take
sex and relationship with same gender only=gay
sex with either gender but relationship with same gender only = gay with bisexual tendancys.
sex and relationship with either gender= bisexual
sex with either gender but relationship only with oposite gender= strait with bisexual tendancys
sex and relationships with only oposite gender= strait
Acording to Kinsey who is yet to be poroperly refuted the vast majority of humanity displays some degree of bisexuality. It is the default with oposite gender pairings the most likely outcome.
Social rules make being bisexual a serious social issue. To be bisexual seems to imply lack of monogamy. Which is rediculous, every one of us is capable of being faithful to our lovers.
Quote from: cynthialee on July 16, 2010, 03:23:38 PM
Acording to Kinsey who is yet to be poroperly refuted...
I should interject at this point that, during my time mowing over the CDC research records and associated epidemiological and sociological journals at WSU, I never encountered a peer-reviewed study that agreed with Kinsey's figures.
- N
I was "only into women" before I transitioned, but that's kind of a lie. I was in a situation where I couldn't really explore that stuff. I messed around with guys a couple of times, but was intensely uncomfortable being made to feel like a girl. I stuck to dating women because it was easier to feel like was in the male role, or something like that.
However, I can't deny I was often attracted to men in those days. During one drunken experience I told this boy, "honey, you're as pretty as ANY GIRL..." lol lol lol.
Now that I'm presenting as male, although I'm still pre-t, I feel WAY more comfortable with my sexuality, because I can think of it as a guys sexuality. One week, I'll be all about the dudes and fantasise about gay sex endlessly. Then suddenly, I'll be like, hey I miss boobs, and start thinking about girls. I'm really interested to see what happens post T.
Quote from: Robertina on July 16, 2010, 11:51:28 AM
I don't think that T will change your sexual orientation
I completely disagree. For most of us, it just seems to lower our inhibitions, but I know a guy who was completely straight pre-T. He was in a long term relationship with a girl and everything. Then he started T and just wasn't attracted to women anymore and is now gay.
I really hope my sexual orientation doesn't change once I start T. It's already having a heavy leaning towards girls (bio or not, preferably not) right now and I used to be only attracted to guys, albeit very feminine guys. Just over the years I seem to have grown more comfortable with myself so that's what I put it towards.
I feel like my sexual orientation is just changing naturally as I get older. Or less that it's changing, more that I find out more about what I'm into.
I've found the same. I'm far more open to the fact that I might actually enjoy something. I've spent the past few months jerking off to random stuff on XTube, just to find out what I like.
I consider that who I have sex with and who I have a relationship with as two different things. For example I'm horny enough to want sex with pretty much anyone at the moment but I'm only interested in making any sort of emotional relationship with a female. But IDK would that technically make me bisexual even though I'm not interested in a relationship with a man? In fact, I don't really care about labels anyway :laugh:.
Quote from: kyril on July 16, 2010, 03:08:52 PM
You're on the right track. Men's sexualities are generally best thought of as relationship orientations rather than purely sexual orientations...
The longer I think on it, the more convinced I become that this is probably the most succinct and accurate description of male sexual orientation that I've yet read.
- N
Most people's sexual orientation is not 100% straight or gay, even if it is close to one end or the other. We all have different likes, dislikes, and potential for one thing or another, but I don't think there is any evidence that T changes sexual orientation - so those starting T and worried about that probably don't need to be. If you start T and then find yourself gay, I think that was already inside, even if not recognized. Not all gays realized that they were gay from early childhood, and plenty had heterosexual relationships prior to coming out. That said, its all my opinion and I'm no doctor. (I prayed to got that starting T would make me straight, but it didn't).
Quote from: Greg on July 16, 2010, 07:10:16 PM
I consider that who I have sex with and who I have a relationship with as two different things. For example I'm horny enough to want sex with pretty much anyone at the moment but I'm only interested in making any sort of emotional relationship with a female. But IDK would that technically make me bisexual even though I'm not interested in a relationship with a man? In fact, I don't really care about labels anyway :laugh:.
I'm sure by the formal definition of bisexual, you technically qualify - but in practice, as the terms are actually used by men to describe ourselves, you're not. Women use the terms slightly differently and you might find yourself included under the female understanding of bisexuality.
Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: Nimetön on July 16, 2010, 07:19:23 PM
The longer I think on it, the more convinced I become that this is probably the most succinct and accurate description of male sexual orientation that I've yet read.
- N
Thanks N :)
Quote from: kyril on July 16, 2010, 07:37:00 PM
I'm sure by the formal definition of bisexual, you technically qualify - but in practice, as the terms are actually used by men to describe ourselves, you're not. Women use the terms slightly differently and you might find yourself included under the female understanding of bisexuality.
Makes sense. I just read your post that Nimeton quoted from which pretty much answered my question. That'll teach me to post without reading the rest of the thread.
I identified as a lesbian before I realized any attraction to people because it seemed like the best fit. For myself it was a matter of not wanting to be seen as feminine, that being with a woman would make me feel more masculine.
Now I think that after testosterone and feeling more comfortable in my body (and most likely horny as a rabbit on viagra) I would be more open sexually. I think I'll figure it out if and when I go on T.
Post Merge: July 17, 2010, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Ryan on July 16, 2010, 06:52:37 PM
I've found the same. I'm far more open to the fact that I might actually enjoy something. I've spent the past few months jerking off to random stuff on XTube, just to find out what I like.
When I got curious about how genitals change with T I looked up trans guys on xtube, ended up watching about 5 trans guys I knew personally. It was...a boner killer.
I wasn't sure whether I should reply or not, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to.
I identified as straight before I figured it out, and once I did I started looking at females differently. No T or anything at all yet, I consider myself bisexual now.
I really think that being in a relationship brought it all to my notice though. I wasn't in a really traditional, stereotypical one at all but that's when I realized that others expected me to fill the female role and I don't fit. I reject the female role because I am not one. That sort of started the snowball for me and I started thinking about my identity a lot more from there, looking at the signs I'd been ignoring.
Quote from: Ryan on July 16, 2010, 06:36:26 PM
I completely disagree. For most of us, it just seems to lower our inhibitions, but I know a guy who was completely straight pre-T. He was in a long term relationship with a girl and everything. Then he started T and just wasn't attracted to women anymore and is now gay.
This has happened to a few of my friends as well.
Personally, i identified as lesbian before i realized i was trans. After i came out as trans, i wasn't too into labels. I liked men and women and everyone in between. I've been on T for 4 months, and now i'm almost exclusively attracted to men/masculine identified people.
I'd heard stories about this happening, but i always assumed that T somehow made people more comfortable with themselves, so they were more open to the idea of being with men. Now that i've gone through the experience myself, i would disagree with that. It might be that way for some people, but in my case, i'm just NOT attracted to women anymore. I have no clue why. I'm just not. It didn't have anything to do with being comfortable with myself.
I don't think you will find only one reason to explain this.
I was just talking to a lesbian friend the other day. She had another Trans guy friend who was identified as lesbian before transitioning and now they are a gay guy. For them they said they always felt queer, and not figuring out otherwise assumed that they were a lesbian and dated women. After finally transitioning they realized they were still queer, just not how they thought they were.
I have to say I kind of felt the same. Before I realized I was trans I seriously wondered if I was gay. Tried it out and was rather repulsed it. I guess if my sexuality was a bit grayer then maybe I would of lived as a gay man for a time?
I completely disagree with any statements that T changes your sexual orientation. The system in your body that controls hormones has been studied several times and has never once been tied to sexual orientation in any way.
I think that in general being on hormones, beginning to feel more comfortable with yourself physically, allows for more growth and exploration sexually that many of us weren't open to before. When you are comfortable with your body you will be more comfortable with other people being intimate with your body. You are no longer staring at men's bodies with only envy and jealousy, you are no longer as concerned that a man will see you only as a female and treat you as one. You in general are more comfortable with your male identity and this allows you to be more open with your body and partners.
Also think about the stereotypes society pushes on us. If we wanted to be men we were expected to like women, so many of us did. Many of us felt genuinely attracted to them as well. But men are far more closed to the idea of liking other men, so why would any of us have gone out of our way to admit to or follow through on the idea of being attracted to or interested in sex with other men in any way? It would be like allowing ourselves to be used as and seen as women. That is exactly what society would have said about us.
If you like men why become a man? Why not just stay a girl? Why did that girl become a guy just to be a queer?
Ever heard any of those statements before?
We all, in our own ways, followed strict guidelines of what we felt made as "men" in the eyes of those around us. Rather it was working on cars, dating girls or refusing to wear pink. This is just another good example of allowing society to teach us to act a certain way to present as who we are.
Personally, I identify as bisexual. I don't have an interest in men beyond physically. I have met one man in my life who I genuinely felt any kind of emotional attraction to but could not have had an emotionally fulfilling relationship with him. I still would have desired more. My attraction to both genders physically is equal. However, I personally need a woman. The way a woman makes me feel about me emotionally is what I am drawn to. A woman makes me feel like more of a man, the way they treat me, hold me, look at me, need me... it makes me feel male. That emotional relationship and attachment reinforces who I am. Emotionally I feel like men see me as a female and so I can't connect that way with them. It makes me feel like I'm not really being seen and loved for who I am. And that is just part of how I personally react to emotional contact with each gender, not everyone will feel that way about it.
However I highly doubt it is even physically possible for any hormone to control our sexuality. Any man who was deficient in T and had to much E in their body would be gay. Any woman who had a higher levels of T would be a lesbian. It simply is not that way. If you look at society there are way more explanations that make sense in our social structure than there are in science and hormones.
Any woman who went through menopause would become a lesbian if this was true. There would be a huge study about women suddenly becoming lesbians after age 40.
Quote from: Nicky on July 17, 2010, 03:07:06 AM
I was just talking to a lesbian friend the other day. She had another Trans guy friend who was identified as lesbian before transitioning and now they are a gay guy. For them they said they always felt queer, and not figuring out otherwise assumed that they were a lesbian and dated women. After finally transitioning they realized they were still queer, just not how they thought they were.
This is pretty much what happened to me. I always liked men, but not in the 'straight' way. So I thought I must be a lesbian. Turns out I just really, really like the gay male kind of fun... but definately always felt queer.