Do we tend to find that more often than not, people choose to leave their sweetheart instead of sticking by and supporting them?
What experience have you had with this?
My spouse is staying so far. (but ze is transgender also)
My SO says the HRT changes (voice, facial hair, etc.) do not matter and he respects my body-insecurities. So if it falls apart, I think it will be for different reasons.
My wife decided she could not handle living with a woman. She was in love with Nicholas, and did not feel like she loved Nicole. She felt real guilty that she was unable to offer the support I needed.
We were great for about 2 months there after seperation. But it has all kind of gone pear shaped. And I am not sure why. Every time we speak she seems angrier and angrier. Today she asked for her house key back when previously we agreed it would be handy if we both had a copy of our house keys.
My SO loves me for who I am.. it's about the contents, not the packaging, for him.
So..
So far so good...
My most recent and possibly last girlfriend left me a couple of years ago because it was all a bit much for her
She was somewhat nice about it though... She actually took the time to sort through her clothes and make up to decide what would look good on me and gave me a bunch of great stuff
Then she was gone and I've never seen her again
My girlfriend has been more than supportive, she practically forced me to go to therapy and stop putting it off lol. Everything is great for right now, but after the transitioning, I dont know where we will go from there. She is not a straight girl and doesn't like men, but she likes me, and I hope that will not change.
I was single when I started transitioning but the first girl I dated after I started transition was extremely supportive of me. So supportive, she didn't even acknowledge I was trans unless I brought it up :) I hope I can find another like that, it may be hard but I have hope.
Like Cynthia both I and my partner are also SO's.
As we didn't meet until we were both long term done and dusted you may think it doesn't count though. :D
I do not totally agree. Having been through transition and SRS, particularly if like my partner Alison, who is older than me, you didn't start until you were a little older, can still leave certain emotional scars. So just occasionally one or other of us will find ourselves also acting as unpaid support group. ;)
I am an SO, and hope to be so until the very end :)
You mean, are SOs who stay a rare breed? Quite possibly, but I just think that most SOs in that category have more protean sexuality than the strict gay/straight binary that a lot of now-absent SOs seem to have. Only anecdotal evidence to back me up (on Susan's and my own life), but it's quite a few anecdotes that SEEM to add up.
My ex was completely straight, no middle ground.
He claimed that if our relationship had been stronger when I transitioned--and it was clearly MY fault that it wasn't--then he might have been able to ride out my transition and stay with me.
I take plenty of responsibility for the increasing weakness of our relationship, but it was a two-way street; and I think his explanation of why he didn't stay with me is a load of crap. When I look back on the strongest years of our relationship, I can clearly see that he completely shut down whenever I "actively" tried to pass, whereas he was okay when people simply "mistook" me for a man. The former turned him into a stiff, uncommunicative little zombie, and the latter was all a big private joke that he could laugh off, presumably because he "knew" the "truth."
In my circle of in-person acquaintances, I can immediately come up with five relationships that have survived transition so far. In two, the SO is bi, and both relationships have survived complete transition (as far as either trans person has wished to go) and have been going strong years and years.
In another, the SO still calls herself a lesbian but seems completely committed to her trans man. He hasn't had top or bottom surgery, but I have little doubt that they will stay together. They've been together for at least five years, and they love each other like crazy.
In another, I don't know the orientation of the SO. Her trans partner is on hormones but hasn't had top or bottom surgery. I have to say that it's a very disturbing relationship. The SO is overbearing and even somewhat abusive. Some of us wonder if the trans person stays in the relationship out of fear of being alone and the non-trans partner stays because she likes to control and dominate. It's not a mutual b&d scenario. And, of course, there's no telling what will happen when the trans partner does have surgery.
A fifth relationship required no sexuality shift for the SO. She was straight, she saw her partner as a man, and they got together while he was still pre-transition. He finally had top surgery recently. I gather from conversations with the SO that negotiating her partner's presurgical chest required a great deal of work and negotiation, so I imagine they are both much happier now.
I guess that's kind of a mixed bag, isn't it? But I wouldn't be surprised to find out that more than fifty percent of the "staying" SOs are bi or pan.
Then there's the other side of the coin. Some trans people leave their SOs because of transition. I can honestly say that if my ex hadn't broken up with me when he did, it's quite possible that I would have broken up with him not long after--in perhaps a year or two. You see, I wanted to be with a gay man, and he made it quite clear that he wanted nothing to do with that kind of world.
Somewhere I saw a reference to a study about SOs, but I never followed up on it. I don't remember if it was FTM or MTF relationships, but I think the former. There could be several studies out there by now. It would be interesting to see whether bi/pansexuality plays a major role in most such relationships.
Sevan and I are both pansexual.
In my case, and possibly a few others, I have compromised with my wife.
My relationship with her is too important to lose. I am not a sociable person. I don't have any friends. I make them occasionally but these never last.
I see marriage as being about compromise. I have given up so much for my wife. I am ready to give up life itself if necessary.
I want to add a point here, lest any feel I am being judgemental or pontificating. For many, this has not been the case.
Marriage is a strange beast. There are no rules. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The needs of the people involved are the guidelines of any marriage.
My relationship has become so strong simply because my needs, that I get from my marriage, are greater than those aspects which I have sacrificed.
But there are limits to the sacrifices that any of us are prepared to make. When two people, for whatever list of reasons, and I really believe there will be many reasons for a marriage breaking down, decide they can't continue together, then hopefully they can go their separate ways with mutual respect.
THey arent a rare breed. it's all up in the air. In my case, I was the SO and got dumped so he could date around lol. I reminded him too much of his past.
Quote from: kisschittybangbang on July 31, 2010, 12:17:55 AM
THey arent a rare breed. it's all up in the air. In my case, I was the SO and got dumped so he could date around lol. I reminded him too much of his past.
My sympathies, that's unfortunate. You seem really considerate/nice from your posts.
My wife knew before we were married and we had been out as girlfriends before marriage. She wanted children as did I. When we found out I was sterile and it was the days pre-IVF, our sexual relationship slowly stopped. But we are still a strong couple living in probably a unique circumstance as my wife is now severely disabled following an accident and has to live in high dependency care. But it is our 28th wedding anniversary next Saturday.
Cindy
Quote from: Silver on July 31, 2010, 12:24:16 AM
My sympathies, that's unfortunate. You seem really considerate/nice from your posts.
Silver you're sweet. ^w^ Its ancient history. No big deal. Just making a point of saying, just like all big changes in life, it's not "rare breeds" or anything. It's all based on people as individuals
@Cindy: <3 You're awesome. Congrats on 28 years
I wouldn't say "SO's" are a 'rare breed'. I have seen in the last 6 or 7 years that SO's are "in the closet".
Some Significant Others choose to leave, others choose to stay. Neither choice should be judged. If your partner comes out to you as a different gender, and plans to transition, that can throw your own personal sexuality into a tizzy.
Gender isn't a sexuality, thats clear. But YOUR gender in relation to your significant other's gender, IS a sexuality. Some are straight, gay, bi, pan etc. If your partners sexuality doesn't "fall in line" with your gender, issues obviously arise.
Thats just one reason that some SO's may choose to leave. As someone else said before, Compromise is important in any relationship.
In the last year I have separated from a transgendered spouse, but it had -nothing- to do with her gender.
in other news, I'm delighted to see this board is still active :D
I've lost three very special people to me in the past because of this, however we are all still very good friends. I would love to find a woman who has no problems with my situation. Problem is I seem to attract men a lot more now than I used to, which really doesn't work for me. I still love women. I am a very social person so I guess patience will resolve this, eventually. :)
First of all, since this is my first post in this forum, hello everyone, and I'll give a little background on myself:
I'm a young pansexual female learning in baby steps how to support my FtM partner (soon to be Evan), who I've known for 3 years and been with for a little over a year. He has not begun hormone therapy or had any procedures yet; he has been under his parents' roof until he went to college recently, and his parents don't know that he is transgendered.
To further explain myself, and respond to the topic of this thread:
I think that being pansexual helps for me to just see this person as my partner, regardless of gender. I understand how it would be difficult for someone who was strictly straight or strictly gay/lesbian to embrace their partner's gender identity when it was revealed. I consider pansexuality to be a huge blessing, and if there's such a thing as fate, I believe I was fated to have this sexual orientation so that I coud accept my soulmate no matter his biological vs. mental gender conflict.
On another note I believe that if Evan and I were not so close and compatable, that it would be EXTREMELY difficult for us to stay together due to his transsexuality. Not because I can't accept him, but because this is a complex matter and it requires the trans person to be self-centered to some degree while he or she is working to synchronize their inner and outer selves. Communication is a huge key, and will continue to be the further he gets into his transition.
I will never pretend that I can understand what it's like for a transgendered individual. But despite that, or maybe because of it, Evan and I talk frequently about the matter, about what's going on in his head and mine. He often has a lot of venting to do, and I ask questions to try to understand -- one great thing about this is how many new things I learn every day! :)
We've barely scratched the surface, but I'd like to think we're laying a good foundation to keep the relationship alive and well during his transition. I think SO's are a rare breed because it's immensely difficult at times, and unless they know without a doubt that they are meant to be with this person, it may not be worth it in their mind. It's a very delicate issue. I feel like I was born to interact with the transgendered community, blessed with pansexual blinders that, for me, erase societal preconceptions of gender. <3
My boyfriend is also trans, and he's wonderfully supportive, we can talk to each other if we're dysphoric or depressed.
Last girlfriend was also very supportive.
Boyfriend before that left about 5 minutes after I told him. Even though he said it was for other reasons. ::)
I've always considered myself a lesbian, so me ending up with Jessi still confuses me at times. Some of my gay friends say nope this makes you bi, but to me Jessi has always been a girl even if the exterior is opposite. Things were akward at first, but we've worked through and I'm not leaving due to any body issues.
Quote from: Dragon Friend on August 19, 2010, 09:31:13 PM
I've always considered myself a lesbian, so me ending up with Jessi still confuses me at times. Some of my gay friends say nope this makes you bi, but to me Jessi has always been a girl even if the exterior is opposite. Things were akward at first, but we've worked through and I'm not leaving due to any body issues.
I'm glad it's working out for you. But have you considered that you being okay with the relationship means you are pansexual? I'm just bothered by the fact that you still see him as a girl, and I'd be VERY surprised if he isn't bothered by it as well. His day-to-day life is focused on getting the world to view him as a man, so his partner saying "you'll always be a girl to me" can't be helpful.
I'm really not trying to pick a fight, I'm just wondering why you're so set on seeing him as a woman.
Quote from: eleemosynarify on August 20, 2010, 05:45:23 PM
I'm glad it's working out for you. But have you considered that you being okay with the relationship means you are pansexual? I'm just bothered by the fact that you still see him as a girl, and I'd be VERY surprised if he isn't bothered by it as well. His day-to-day life is focused on getting the world to view him as a man, so his partner saying "you'll always be a girl to me" can't be helpful.
I'm really not trying to pick a fight, I'm just wondering why you're so set on seeing him as a woman.
I think this topic might clear it up (you even posted in it :P).
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82441.msg579927.html#msg579927 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82441.msg579927.html#msg579927)
Her SO is a pre-everything MtF.
Whoa, definitely my bad. Sorry, just the way you phrased it made it sound like you were with an FtM individual to me. The fact that Jessi is a totally unisex name didn't help my analysis. :laugh:
I divorced twice because of it, without even transitioning! Switched to men for a while, but really prefer women, at least for relationships. A roommate (female), with whom I had a totally non-sexual relationship, but knew my situation, connected me to a friend of hers she knew to be accepting. We have been married 25 years. She has a bit of butch, and quite frankly enjoys my housekeeping/cooking skills. Only occasionally does she get ticked when I explain how to correctly use some appliance. She loves watching sports. Thank God she doesn't drink beer, kicked back in a Barcalounger, farting, while doing so. I am into the Arts. Our relationship works because we do not try to takeover each others' "specialties." We actually have all the same skills and interests as any "straight" couple, except that it is distributed differently.
I think that SOs are out there, you just have to advertise what you want, and what you have to offer. No Surprises. You may find it easier at 30 than at 20, because at 20, women haven't yet figured out that Prince Charming has ridden right past her house. At least that was about the time I figured it out. Comfortable may not be a castle, but it's safe, clean, and happy. Hopefully, that's enough.
I agree that SO's are out there. I can't stand the pessimism of my friends who, as young as 15, 16, 17, 18, say they'll never love again, or will never find someone who like them. I hear it from straight, bi, gay, lesbian, and pan friends alike. You should never give up on finding an SO that's right for you. And I'll never take for granted that I was so young when I found someone so wonderful.
Quote from: eleemosynarify on August 20, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Whoa, definitely my bad. Sorry, just the way you phrased it made it sound like you were with an FtM individual to me. The fact that Jessi is a totally unisex name didn't help my analysis. :laugh:
It happens. Jessi is short for her chosen name of Jessica. Still at the point of gender nutral aroud 70% of the people we know.
I think that one of the hardest things is juggling 3 names and 2 pronouns. Friends that we are out to say it'd drive them nuts and they'd mess up. Well she is leagely becoming Jessi, so down to 2 names now.
seems to be flying apart here. i had hoped for either adjustment or "go in peace" but it's been mostly war. in less complex circumstances it would probably have ended already.
As for the future, I take it as a given I'll be an old maid - if another relationship comes along I'll be shocked.
Quote from: eleemosynarify on August 21, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
I agree that SO's are out there. I can't stand the pessimism of my friends who, as young as 15, 16, 17, 18, say they'll never love again, or will never find someone who like them. I hear it from straight, bi, gay, lesbian, and pan friends alike. You should never give up on finding an SO that's right for you. And I'll never take for granted that I was so young when I found someone so wonderful.
That is very true, the more I learn the more I see how hard it is for some people to find a loving partner. But the fact that it is hard should not keep anyone from trying. True, it might hurt a few times but in the end there is always someone you can spend your life with. In Holland we have the phrase: "For every pot there is a lid that fits".
Octavianus said:
In Holland we have the phrase: "For every pot there is a lid that fits".
Ah but then USA made Tupperware. ::) ::) ::) :laugh:
Cindy
Indeed....
The Graduate "One Word: Plastics" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSxihhBzCjk#ws)
Nope in my case my very last significant (no-tail) female ex, most defo didn't buy into my GID thang.... and that was that....
But ironically having relationships in stealth with men early on was I have to say validating...it's simpler long-term me thinks for those that are able to break clean and start again....
And also then you be sans the baggage that comes with transitions which in itself can be considerable...but there are no rules or best options with this issue me thinks.... just a whole host of interesting combinations...
Well, I'm staying. My hubby came out to me a few weeks ago. It's been a little weird. He's not transitioning; for me, for our kids, for his uber religious family. He says he's ok just knowing he's a girl , he doesn't have to look like one; would be very difficult, cost prohibitive, for him to ever get to the point where he could pass as female. I would still stand by him/her if he/she did transition. He's my soulmate, my love, my heart, the other 1/2 of me.
He's stood by my side while I changed from an active, vivacious, busy gal into a sick, often whiney invalid over the past few years. I'm still me, just trapped in a broken body that won't cooperate with how my brain wants it to be. Believe me, I understand how similar our circumstances are. I love him no matter what, and he loves me.
Quote from: Jennypenny on September 02, 2010, 02:11:21 AM
Well, I'm staying. My hubby came out to me a few weeks ago. It's been a little weird. He's not transitioning; for me, for our kids, for his uber religious family. He says he's ok just knowing he's a girl , he doesn't have to look like one; would be very difficult, cost prohibitive, for him to ever get to the point where he could pass as female. I would still stand by him/her if he/she did transition. He's my soulmate, my love, my heart, the other 1/2 of me.
He's stood by my side while I changed from an active, vivacious, busy gal into a sick, often whiney invalid over the past few years. I'm still me, just trapped in a broken body that won't cooperate with how my brain wants it to be. Believe me, I understand how similar our circumstances are. I love him no matter what, and he loves me.
I said that stuff to my wife before I started my transition.x
Quote from: cynthialee on September 02, 2010, 10:09:15 PM
I said that stuff to my wife before I started my transition.x
Not to contradict my spouse, but -- yea we discussed this post after she posted it... while that statement is fairly true of my state of mind now, I reserve the right to change my mind (which is a girl's prerogative) ... As I mentioned in my intro - if I could wave a magic wand over my body and *poof* into a female body, with female chemistry and plumbing, I would do it without hesitation. As far as transition goes, I see it as a long painful road with many milestones. Maybe I will arrive at a place where I can feel fine with my gender identity maybe going in some crooked line (to quote indigo girls - closer to fine) or perhaps other roadblocks get in the way.
For now I'm working on getting my health issues and weight problems under control, before starting any HRT (which I'd really like to do), and looking for a good counsellor who specializes in Gender ID issues in the local area. I am also busy with family obligations, work ,and helping Jenn with her health issues so I don't anticipate that my progress towards any ultimate FT transition goal (which I'm not sure about anyway) will be super fast. I'm also working on some of my internal issues, (life experiences leading up to now in new context, and coming to grips with my road ahead, plans and goals for the future, before I start dealing with my external presentation. (well I can't exactly say that, I stealth CD when I can, and wear makeup and painted nails out, and carry a purse -ahem "man bag" - , even when dressed as male.)
Right now going FT scares the bejeezus out of me. I'm so not ready yet physically or wardrobe-wise - but I think I'd like to eventually try at least PT around town or out for one or two days/nights a week.
Cheers!
Rayalisse
I wasn't trying to ->-bleeped-<- on your day, btw. I was just being brutaly honest. Many of us late in lifers go through the 'oh I couldn't ever transition because of....' phase.
No worries Cyn. I realize Ray's got the right to change her mind. So do I. I realize that things could get to the point where no matter how much love we have for each other, it may not be enough to come through this with our marriage unscathed.
Heck, I'm still pissed that the kids and I weren't enough motivation for Ray to want to take care of her health. I know she's been depressed, but that doesn't take the sting out of it. All of a sudden she's "out" and on a health and weight loss kick. I've tried to get her to diet with me for years, to take better care of herself...oh well. I'm just happy she's doing it...and jealous that she's having results while I'm not. Lol!
My SO was a straight girl.
She became my highschool sweet heart- and we're still together.
She would say 'I'm not a lesbian' for months and months but I was very interested in her.
I pursued her- and eventually (I must of worn on her nerves enough)
she agreed to 'give it a try'.
In the past she's told me that she has considered breaking things off.
It must be hard for her to deal with me. ^^' Only- she's still here.
Supportive- smiling, and 'trying to help'. I love her allot- I only wish I wasn't so messed up/bothersome to the relationship, heh.
In short; I think they are rare.
My boyfriend and I met while we were both living as women. In a lot of ways, having each other really helped us figure ourselves out. It was so liberating and thrilling early on to realize that there was somebody else who knew what it was like to feel at odds with their body! We were both identifying as FtM early on, but a few weeks into our relationship I realized I just wasn't happy with it. I had a masculine side and needed those qualities acknowledged, but I also had a feminine side that hurt, deeply, at being lost. Because we started our relationship as two men, I was terrified I'd lose him when I told him, but he took it in stride.
So now I'm out as androgyne and much more comfortable with myself. For the most part we identify our relationship as a gay one and it works quite well.
I'm a newbie to this forum... I'm a SO to a wonderful FtM... he's a member on here as well I believe... considering he sent me a link....
I guess following the example of someone else's post... A bit about me... I'm a bisexual girl...not a little bi curious girl-- a true bisexual. Physical sex really means little to me, same with gender. I like people. I have been with Zeke close to two months and I really hope to last a long time... I like him a lot.
I'd be lying if I said it was easy. I get frustrated from time to time and I really worry when he gets dysphoric.
I get most frustrated when he tells me he wants no help... when helping is all I feel I can do.
I want to stay by his side as long as he'll let me.
I knew he was trans before our mutual friend set us up on a date, I see him fully as a man, even if his physical is female for now. If I had the power I'd get him the T he wants and surgeries.
To get to the main topic... I don't think that SOs are a rare breed at all. It just takes a few key points to meet the FtM or MtF partner's needs.. Everyone is different, everyone needs something different in a SO and eventually everyone will find one....
Quote from: rejennyrated on July 27, 2010, 01:45:58 AM
Like Cynthia both I and my partner are also SO's.
As we didn't meet until we were both long term done and dusted you may think it doesn't count though. :D
I do not totally agree. Having been through transition and SRS, particularly if like my partner Alison, who is older than me, you didn't start until you were a little older, can still leave certain emotional scars. So just occasionally one or other of us will find ourselves also acting as unpaid support group. ;)
Very much in agreement.
My for-now-wife and I remain together for now; however, she will eventually leave whenever she has the wherewithal to do so.
It makes perfect sense to be with another transperson as a roommate in the beginning. Who better to understand your situation? Certainly, the later transitioner will have more baggage, I would imagine. Could this relationship evolve from roommates into significant others, as in this case. Of course! In fact, I think two T-girls can successfully become significant others very happily so.
In my case, I feel I'm getting too old to find another significant other. However, I'm open to the possibility. Another T-girl? Why not? I'm wide-open to this.
@ everbody: Enjoyed all of your posts. Very good thread here. Thanks.
Quote from: Octavianus on August 24, 2010, 09:41:20 AMIn Holland we have the phrase: "For every pot there is a lid that fits".
I don't think this applies to me...I am a crackpot.
Seriously, I think I had my "lid" and he is gone now. I tried so hard to live as a straight girl, and I made it work. Apart from the trans issue, we were practically perfect for each other. That sort of relationship doesn't come along every day.
I don't expect to be in another relationship because, frankly, for most gay men, everything depends on the penis. As in, the presence of one. I don't know what any gay man would see in me once he found out what I don't have in my pants. I wouldn't stick around either, if the situation were reversed.