And, I don't mean from cisgender folks. I mean from those who also under the "transgender" umbrella.
So, my fellow unicorns here in Nero's Forest:
1. How do you deal with those who denigrate your existence and invalidate your indentity by insisting there are only 2 genders, that there is nothing in between, no grey area?
2. How do you deal with those who say that your very non-binary existence contributes to stereotypes and makes life harder for the True Trannsexuals?
Personally, I find this exhausting. I feel like a pinata, attacked by cisgender and transgender folk alike.
I ignore the tossers.
Quote from: Pica Pica on July 27, 2010, 12:46:44 PM
I ignore the tossers.
I try, but damn it's tough.
I don't need the world to love me. But, a little less hate would be nice.
As the spouse of an androgyne I find I get very upset when I hear binary only talk.
I know from close and personal experiance that some people can not and do not fit into the gender binary. My wife being one of them.
I do not know how to deal with dumbass attitudes. Maybe the binary thinking transfolks are harming the genderqueer/androgynes and making their lives more dificult....? hmmmm
Way to many transfolks seem to have bought deep into the binary and anyone who doesnt fit into their rigid definitions of male and female is somehow making their life more dificult. I call shenanigans! So what my mate makes you and others uncomfortable? They just need to suck it up because no one has any right to lay claim to any part of anyone elses life.
For me, the androgyne journey is one of self-acceptance and everything else is just cucumber. To denigrate the existence of someone standing in front of them is pure nonsense, and who is contributing to gender stereotypes more; the person who denies the gender boundary or the person who insists on it?
Thanks, folks.
The strange part is that in this most recent episode (on another TG message board), I tried to take the high road at the outset. I kept my messages devoid of condescension and tried to be as clinical as possible. The screed that was the other poster's reply both took me by surprise, and didn't take me by surprise.
I'd like to continue the conversation, but she ended her message with "I will not degrade myself to another response to you."
I don't need to have the last word. But, it saddens me to see the dialog so abruptly ended.
Well, what can I do? I can't change the minds of others. I'd like to say, "I would rather that people get to know me before they hate me. Don't hate me because of what I am. Hate me because you've gotten to know who I am."
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 01:27:03 PM
Don't hate me because of what I am. Hate me because you've gotten to know who I am."
Okay, I shall ;D
It might be the same phenomenon that bisexuals get. Bis and non-binarys always seem on the fence and not as 'legitimate' as those on either side. For some reason this is threatening to some binarys and monosexuals (is that a word? :laugh:)
Yeah, I get the bisexual hatred too.
Oh, yeah, and I'm a theist. But being a polytheist means that there are those theists who'll hate me too.
And according to the book Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life by Marjorie Garber, "monosexual" is indeed a word. :)
IF gender is binary with no grey area, how do you explain hermaphroditic animals and intersex people? Surely if noticeably physical sex can be in a grey area so can the none noticeable parts of a person.
Quote from: LordKAT on July 27, 2010, 02:44:40 PM
IF gender is binary with no grey area, how do you explain hermaphroditic animals and intersex people? Surely if noticeably physical sex can be in a grey area so can the none noticeable parts of a person.
Very well said.
I think bigoted transsexuals should be ashamed of themselves. Why would you invalidate someone the same way others invalidate you. Yes, being androgyne and transsexual are not the same thing. BUT, a transsexual can be an androgyne or non gender conforming as well. It is an endless spectrum.
Quote from: Kyle XD on July 27, 2010, 03:50:19 PM
I think bigoted transsexuals should be ashamed of themselves. Why would you invalidate someone the same way others invalidate you. Yes, being androgyne and transsexual are not the same thing. BUT, a transsexual can be an androgyne or non gender conforming as well. It is an endless spectrum.
At the Pacific Coast Living Conference earlier this month in South San Francisco, I spent most of the day in a workshop called "The Gender Universe." It was presented by an MFT by the name of Steven Braveman (who identifies and gender-fluid, essentially) and his intern Nickolas McDaniels, a transman. They used the metaphor of the "spectrum" to describe gender identity. If I lived in Monterey County, I'd probably join their support group.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 04:10:13 PM
At the Pacific Coast Living Conference earlier this month in South San Francisco, I spent most of the day in a workshop called "The Gender Universe." It was presented by an MFT by the name of Steven Braveman (who identifies and gender-fluid, essentially) and his intern Nickolas McDaniels, a transman. They used the metaphor of the "spectrum" to describe gender identity. If I lived in Monterey County, I'd probably join their support group.
I went to a great support group in New York City. At the Center they have two gender groups, one for the mtf spectrum and one for the ftm spectrum. There were gendequeer, transsexuals and others and it was pretty comfortable. I like the image of a spectrum, kind of like an artists color wheel.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 12:44:48 PM
1. How do you deal with those who denigrate your existence and invalidate your indentity by insisting there are only 2 genders, that there is nothing in between, no grey area?
First I laugh at them. Then I call them an idiot. Then I give them some argumentation in the form of middleschool understanding. Then I take my icepick from my freezer and murder them in their sleep.
Ok, ok, seriously? I laugh at them and then I bleat at them.
Quote
2. How do you deal with those who say that your very non-binary existence contributes to stereotypes and makes life harder for the True Trannsexuals?
My response would be: "I know right?".. And then walk off with a smile. No really, I mean: if someone has taken the time to wrap their heads around such a statement then do you have any idea how long a (very likely useless) discussion would take?.. I'd rather use my time going forward and different angles.
edit yeah yeah I know I fail at pacifism. Fiery suits me. ;)
Is it possible to avoid those types of conversations? (that's what I would do. out of sight (ears), out of mind) or are other people starting the fights with you. If so don't participate, walk away, tell them you don't want to discuss it because it's not going to accomplish anything good. Don't go around reading blogs that you know will upset you. If it's just the thought that there are people out there who share those opinions, I guess it's a little harder to get over.
Personally, I try not to demonize people (though I often can't help myself). In this case, I'm sure you can understand where these people are coming from. Even if it's not right, and even if their rejection of androgyny is selfish or whatever you want to call it, they're only people, and we can't expect them to completely understand things that they are unfamiliar with, or to accept things that for one reason or another they believe are hurting them/increasing the likelihood that others will reject them. Maybe they're drawing conclusions from information that isn't right, or from a couple examples that don't represent the group that they are associated with, or maybe neither is the case.
It's not fair, and I wish that people were more altruistic, but they are what they are, and I have trouble blaming them for it. Plus, people have a natural tendency to separate things based on differences, because it helps them get a grip on what things are and what they mean. and when you are so used to gender separating, boy toys, girl toys, boy clothes, girls clothes, and so on with colors bathrooms etc etc, the concept of a person who identifies as neither gender is sort of abstract. It's not gonna be easy for everyone to understand. I know it's impossible to be impartial, but try as hard as you can to understand why they feel/behave the way they do. If you shared all their experiences, and weren't androgynous, do you think you would be that much better than them. maybe maybe not.
I know the whole "walk in their shoes" thing is cliché, but if you really give it a chance, it might be comforting. It doesn't make them right, and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't work to change the way people feel, and to help them feel comfortable with things they aren't familiar with, but sometimes to keep your sanity you have to find a way to ignore hatred, and to not hate them back.
There are 2 groups In my city that I have been part of one for M2F cross dressers and one for M2F Transexuals the TS group are very rigid in there Idea of the term transgender as that is the term that they use for themselves (but exclude anyone that does't fit The "Normal" TS box) being that I was always nice and respectful toward them. They were nice when I arrived and when I left but I was always actively excluded from discussions when at one meeting one of the Ladies who runs the support group started shouting hurtful terms and miss-information that brought me close to tears. I replied by sending an email to the hurtful lady explaining that there is a lot more to transgender then just M2F and told her that if she wanted to know about me then Ask - don't assume she toned down a bit for a while then one meeting afew of the older ladies in the group the above lady included were having a rather loud conversation about how stupid and how f'ed in the head gender queer people are, with almost no truth to what was being said. that afternoon I checked facebook and the lady who who had been giving me grief over & over mostly in subtle ways but also those 2 times had changed her status how good it was to have such great diversity in the group I commented about her hurtful comments and haven't been back since
I have found a new group where I am acceped as me but it takes me 2 hours to get there. at the cross dresser group I don't really fit in and most people assume I'm a very part time crossdresser insted of a full time gender diverse person and I sometimes get asked when I'm going to take off the beard and get nasty looks when when I say that the beard is not going but there are mostly accepting of me if they think I am a cross dresser or a TS. as that is who the group if for.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 12:44:48 PM1. How do you deal with those who denigrate your existence and invalidate your indentity by insisting there are only 2 genders, that there is nothing in between, no grey area?
Sympathy vibes. I'm not andro, but I might smile broadly, say something deliberately irritating, and walk away. Then dream of homicide. I don't know what to say. Try these on for size:
Yes, you're absolutely right! I will now cease to exist! Poof!
Yes, you're absolutely right! I must have multiple personality syndrome!
Then how do you explain me?
That's all right, I don't believe in you, either.
Wow, I thought all the...er, persons...like you went extinct long ago.
Have you discussed these irrational insecurities with your therapist?
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 12:44:48 PM2. How do you deal with those who say that your very non-binary existence contributes to stereotypes...
Uhh...WTF do they mean by this?
Lol Arch... Seems like we'd pretty much respond the same way. Awesome. 8)
Spinaltap,
Well, this most recent episode happened on another message board when I was discussing a coworker's reaction to a genderqueer outfit I'd worn to work one day. The reaction from my cisgender/cissexual coworker was mild compared to the reaction from the other member of that other message board. So, I could have avoided the converation by not asking for input in the first place. But, I guess I could have further prevented the flak by leaving my reply to "Thanks for your input."
Yes, these other folks are human too. But, it seems that if one wants acceptance, one needs to accept. To me, it's a two-way thing. I know that not everyone sees it this way. Another member had a milder though still critical response, saying that "now is not the time" for people to be genderqueer in public. When it's more socially acceptable to be trans, then the genderqueer can come forward. It's a bit ironic, because I've heard the opponents of same-sex marriage say the same thing, that "now is not yet the time" for homosexuals to be pushing for equality.
But, yes, I need to pull back and try to avoid such confrontations. And, I probably need to leave androgyne-related questions to this site, as the other one doesn't seem to pass muster.
Kinkly,
Most of the groups around here that I've found are FTM or MTF, with not much in between. At least one of the groups did seem somewhat aware of what "androgyne" meant. Perhaps there are more around here, I'm between San Francisco and San Jose after all. But my transportation is limited, so my access is limited, too. It's 2 hours one way from my home in San Mateo to my therapist in San Francisco when I use public transit. On those occaisions when I can use a care, it's about 35 minutes.
But, at least I have this group here at Susans.
Arch,
The person on the other board had said that by being androgyne or non-binary, I inflict harm upon trans persons. If I understood her correctly, she was saying that there are only 2 genders. Anyone who says otherwise or tries to live otherwise make life harder for transsexuals because our visible blurring of the lines makes it harder for society to take transsexuals seriously. At least, that's what I think she meant:
QuoteYou are re-inforcing the stereotype that makes my life harder. Therefore, I do not respect, support, encourage or am tolerant of people like you. Just the way it is. It's because of people like you that has contributed to the ignorant stereotypes about actual transsexuals that really do have Gender Identity Disorers (male or female) which has cause my pain, suffering and severe bigotry from all aspects of life. Like I said, just because you fall under the *transgendered* term does not equate to acceptance or tolerance. You are doing more harm than good to *my* cause to educate and make people more understanding.
Yep gonna get slammed for this...
First off, "What speople think of you is none of your bussiness" and when you think about it, it's quite true. We all have minds of our own and our own belief system and right or wrong people differ and clash. Yes oftem these differences creat animosity, alienation, depresion and in some cases hate.
I myself believe in a binary system you are either male or female, I don't believe there is a god or supreme being of any kind, I believe that child molesters should be locked away for the rest of their natural life, that there is absolutelty no excuse for DUI, I don't believe in affirmative action, and it goes on and on. We are all entitled to our views and as long as those views are expressed in a civilized manner then they should be accepted for what they, you either agree or disagree - no disrespect intended.
Oh yes one of the posters here refered to a group as hermaphrodites. The correct term is intersexed.
-={LR}=-
What did Pogo say? "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
I know that a lot of people are heavily invested in the binary. It's that wonderful either/or. Boy or girl? Liberal or Conservative? Republican or Democrat? Straight or gay? What? I can't have some other choice? Are there no other possible alternatives?
Of course there are, but you have to be able to count to three first, and you're dealing with people who can only count to two. If that, most of them can't even count to 'potato.'
I've come to feel that in a lot of things, gender only being one of them, that you have these two sides lining up, rank and file, against each other and they really - and I mean really - hate those of us who are just wandering away from the entire mess. They worry that if enough people wander off then they might be in that place where they are giving a war and nobody came. And boy O boy, are they going to be looking stupid then. Hell, most of this looks pretty silly to me most of the time as it is - as well as seeming highly artificial to me - which is why I'm wandering.
Mostly I think it's a limited - if not retarded - imagination, exacerbated by a limited - and highly trivial - education (or perhaps the other way round). They want to know if it's pink or blue (not even realizing that those colors switched about the 1940s) and give no thought to the reds, greens, yellows, and the purples - as if those colors didn't exist.
I think at root they have such a desperate need to belong that they cling to this ancient cultural flotsam and jetsam as their only salvation. As is said in Firth Of Fifth: The sheep remain inside their pen, though many times they've seen the way to leave.
I don't need to say anything to be deliberately irritating, my very existence is irritating enough to them on a casual basis. And, on the higher plain, being ruthlessly polite turns out to be even more annoying. I've always like to use the two quotes from the original La Femme Nikita and the American version. "How nice for you" or "I never did mind about the little things."
The wise words of my martial arts teacher for two decades ring in my ears too: Never get into a fight with someone who is too stupid to know when they have lost.
*****************************
As for, Another member had a milder though still critical response, saying that "now is not the time" for people to be genderqueer in public I would respond with the following two quotes:
"If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?"
Rabbi Hillel
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, April 16, 1963, A Letter from the Birmingham Jail.
Odd that Ladyrider comes on here for only one time - and that is to deny us.
Quote from: tekla on July 28, 2010, 11:45:34 AM
Mostly I think it's a limited - if not retarded - imagination, exacerbated by a limited - and highly trivial - education (or perhaps the other way round).
I reckon the other way round - A trivial imagination and a retarded education - both can be fixed (indeed fix one and you go a long stretch towards the other).
As for old flotsam and jetsam - I cling on to that stuff, I like the flotsam (less keen on the jetsam)
Quote from: Pica Pica on July 28, 2010, 11:58:07 AM
Odd that Ladyrider comes on here for only one time - and that is to deny us.
Ooooh I feel a poll coming up!... Oh no wait, that's just a deja-vu... ;)
Tekla, I think you hit the nail on the head. The hammer was a bit overstrong, I think, but you nailed it.
Post Merge: July 28, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
LR, actually LordKAT did use the term "intersex."
Quote from: LordKAT on July 27, 2010, 02:44:40 PM
IF gender is binary with no grey area, how do you explain hermaphroditic animals and intersex people? Surely if noticeably physical sex can be in a grey area so can the none noticeable parts of a person.
QuoteIt's because of people like you that has contributed to the ignorant stereotypes about actual transsexuals that really do have Gender Identity Disorers (male or female) which has cause my pain, suffering and severe bigotry from all aspects of life.
Wow. Because, you know, like, androgynes and their ilk are so much more visible to the general public...
I normally don't call attention to people's writing ability in Internet posts because most of those posts are written casually and off the cuff. But I'm not above pointing out such incompetence to someone who is behaving like a jerk. The structure of the quoted sentence defies description. "Mixed construction" is a kind way of putting it.
Yeah, I'm being mean. I do that sometimes.
"It's people like you who call yourselves mixed race who give a bad name to all us REAL black/white/green/whatever people."
I never thought of myself as any one thing to begin with, I'm a rainbow full of sound, it's fireworks, calliopes and clowns --
Errrrr... Just because I don't visit as often as I used to doesn't mean I should be denied having a point of view Pica. I've been coming to Susan's since March 2003.
I don't believe I poop pooded anyones right to exist either, I simply stated my view. Sure there are those who believe they are somewhere in between and that's great for everyone, it makes life so much more interesting but to hate someone here in this community is putting it a little strong.
Okay so I don't agree with you but I don't hate anyone, or disrespect them for that matter, or denie their existence etc, and yes surprise, surprise I can count past 2, and if I take my shoes and socks off I am able to count all the way up to twenty.
When it comes to dealing with "Haters" it really depends on who you are. Are you a fighter, a carry a placard kick ass type or a more passive type? Or are you somewhere in between (damn did I just say that.) :) Personally I got tired of fighting and simply say DILLIGAF and got on with my life, the easy way out maybe but I'm happy and if you can't be happy what's the point.
My appologies to LordKAT.
-={LR}=-
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 28, 2010, 11:23:46 AM
Quote from: The person on the other board
You are re-inforcing the stereotype that makes my life harder. Therefore, I do not respect, support, encourage or am tolerant of people like you. Just the way it is. It's because of people like you that has contributed to the ignorant stereotypes about actual transsexuals that really do have Gender Identity Disorers (male or female) which has cause my pain, suffering and severe bigotry from all aspects of life. Like I said, just because you fall under the *transgendered* term does not equate to acceptance or tolerance. You are doing more harm than good to *my* cause to educate and make people more understanding.
"...stereotype ...people like you...ignorant stereotypes about actual transsexuals ...really do have Gender Identity Disorers...my pain, suffering and severe bigotry... the *transgendered* term does not equate to acceptance or tolerance...You are doing more harm than good to *my* cause"
Wow.... just wow :o
Shades - i'd suggest you find another board to hang out on (like, say, susans) and dump the one where this message originated from. If she is representative of the membership there then clearly there is no room for genderqueer people.
What she said is really kind of funny, considering we are all basically in the same boat, whether she wants to admit it or not.
I'm prolly gonna give up on the other board. It has few members, and I'm the only androgyne there. I was invited to join it, and doing so might have been a mistake.
Quote from: Ladyrider on July 28, 2010, 03:21:35 PM
Errrrr... Just because I don't visit as often as I used to doesn't mean I should be denied having a point of view Pica. I've been coming to Susan's since March 2003.
Sorry, I meant the AG board.
Quote from: Ladyrider on July 28, 2010, 03:21:35 PM
Personally I got tired of fighting and simply say DILLIGAF and got on with my life, the easy way out maybe but I'm happy and if you can't be happy what's the point.
Yup, pretty much agree with you there. I don't think a placard ever did anything for anyone and the last petition to work were the chartists.
Quote from: Pica Pica on July 28, 2010, 05:38:05 PM
Sorry, I meant the AG board.
Yup, pretty much agree with you there. I don't think a placard ever did anything for anyone and the last petition to work were the chartists.
And yes I agree, I should keep my nose out of other peoples business. :)
-={LR}=-
haters have never bothered me, much less on the internet.
It's a matter of understanding, my own understanding.
As long as I understand that people don't have to accept anything I do, and more often than not, they don't, I can hust accept their opinion.
Another thing that always helps me feel much better towards other people, is that in my experience, they don't really mean evil.
Even those who do the most evil are trying to do what they think is good, so then, they just have a different opinion of what good is.
And there is no unique absolute definition of good, so I must accept that they may be correct in their ignorance and stupidity, just like I am correct in my own ignorance and stupidity.
Then, I can't get mad. We're in the same boat.
...
Now those efftards who feel the need to point out and laugh at me IRLz... THOSE do bother me, a lot. Anybody knows what can be done about them ?
I would suggest hammer.
I suppose it's that element of going on the part of the board that you know you don't agree with, though I am sure we need shaking up sometimes.
If you believe in a pure gender binary....Come live in my home for a couple weeks.
I don't. Try living in the real world for a day.
Quote from: tekla on July 28, 2010, 07:47:59 PM
I don't. Try living in the real world for a day.
Living in the real world... I tried that once; It didn't agree with me so I moved to a Galaxy far, far away :)
-={LR}=-
Yeah, but you're back. Could we pass the hat for your return ticket?
Quote from: Pica Pica on July 28, 2010, 06:32:59 PM
I suppose it's that element of going on the part of the board that you know you don't agree with, though I am sure we need shaking up sometimes.
You could be right... but it's not that I don't agree; more like I don't understand. I read the Lit, here and elsewhere, spoke with and was part of a panel at Queens University, however I'm afraid that I just can't get my head around it, just as I can't get my head around trying to figure out where the universe ends. :icon_confused2:
My problem not anyone else's :)
Post Merge: July 28, 2010, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: tekla on July 28, 2010, 08:12:21 PM
Yeah, but you're back. Could we pass the hat for your return ticket?
Yep you certainly can sweetie. I would imagine that there would be a ton of money given to such a good cause so make sure it's a big hat. Oh yes... Do I get to keep the change.
-={LR}=-
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 12:44:48 PM
1. How do you deal with those who denigrate your existence and invalidate your indentity by insisting there are only 2 genders, that there is nothing in between, no grey area?
I listen to their point of view, do my best to try to understand with compassion, and then continue being true to myself!
Quote
2. How do you deal with those who say that your very non-binary existence contributes to stereotypes and makes life harder for the True Trannsexuals?
They seem to believe me to be way more powerful than I am!
Z
I think confidence and a deaf ear (or, in this case, blind eyes) are the best ways to handle things. A couple of years ago, I got into a debate with a couple on here, not about the validation of gender identity, but about wording in posts. The only thing I could do was to ignore them and I asked one of them not to message me anymore. Some people are just hard headed. :-*
I listen to them and consider their opinion, but ultimately I follow my own heart, and inner voice in the end, but its true words are fickle, and in this sense the world is well
Hi,
What is the best way for some one to be able to understand something that they struggle with if it has to do with some of us ,
it would be best to just say,
& ill just say it softly , please , live in my shoes walk where i walk meet the people i meet , meet our Jos & me /my friends & then you may see & understand how i think how i see things & how i am & what makes me tick .
Heres the ? am i a male or a female . or both. try this & i know you cant do this because you are not me .
I think both male & female at the same time or & i think you seem to understand intersex well im wired brain wired intersexed. i was born this way,
You see there is no just male & female only & now you try & tell those who have not had any thing to do with people like us .
Well i do im in front of many people 1000s with in our groups & others & they have accepted who i am, know my back ground & accept that & none of these people are trans . im the only one .
Yet iv had a bit to do with trans groups & they wont to be accepted , in these cases as women yet some wont accept intersexed or like my self a androgynous person so i wonder why they wont, that to me is strange ,
so like you ladyrider. you are not like us so you dont understand & i dont expect you to, like many i know ,
& as it stands those i know , They have just accepted who i am & as a woman & is that all no of cause not, well you know more about some of us & as you get to know us youll find youll learn to understand if you can open your mind with out putting a barrier around your self like some people seem to do,
Its the old saying ...fear to accept... is worse than having to change what you belive or been taught, or is it ,
That is what i have had to deal with , with in certain groups . & yet i have have many friends going back 48 years who accepted who i am then & now.
...noeleena...
Everyone under the TG umbrella, no matter what term they closest identify with, get told, at one point or another, directly or not, that they're "wrong" somehow.
I've been told I'm wrong because I don't want to go stealth. I've been told I'm less of a man because I accept that I'm trans. I've been told that I'm not only "not a man" but that I'm actively harming other transsexual people because I don't think I'll ever be "cisgender".
My response tends to be to debate back at the person, in calm and thought out terms, explaining my view and trying to point out why I do what I do, why I feel what I feel, and I tend to include in that debate a mention of the simple fact that they can't tell me I'm wrong without being hypocritical about refusing to allow cisgender haters to tell them that they are wrong. They don't know how I feel, I don't know how they feel. I'm not them, they are not me. We all have to have our own path in life and so on and so forth.
I tend to word it in a manner that allows me to point these things out to them by drawing as many similes between their behaviour and the behaviour of non-trans haters, the real, physical threat to all of us, as possible. Opting to show them what lows they stoop to by choosing to treat "one of their own" the way they do.
... 'course, that usually ends with someone calling me a jerk... or worse...
I've come to the realization (personal, mind you) that it is truly impossible to put yourself in someone elses shoes, to understand someone completely different from yourself. You can acknowledge and accept, if you're willing and that's a worthy goal that is grossly overlooked. I do my best, honestly. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in this world who can't be bothered.
In response to the quote from the OP, I would simply tell them that sometimes it is quicker to get to your goal by stepping on others, but that doesn't make it ok.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on July 27, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
Yeah, I get the bisexual hatred too.
Oh, yeah, and I'm a theist. But being a polytheist means that there are those theists who'll hate me too.
And according to the book Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life by Marjorie Garber, "monosexual" is indeed a word. :)
Waitaminute...
Okay, I'm pretty much pansexual-although married and monogamous..
I consider myself to be polytheistic, pagan with strong buddhist elements,
And I'm wondering if I'm bigendered also.
I am just totally screwed, aren't I? ;)
Quote from: rite_of_inversion on September 11, 2010, 02:41:34 AM
Waitaminute...
Okay, I'm pretty much pansexual-although married and monogamous..
I consider myself to be polytheistic, pagan with strong buddhist elements,
And I'm wondering if I'm bigendered also.
I am just totally screwed, aren't I? ;)
Welcome to Nero's Unicorn Forest.
Sounds like a good time for a cake party.
Hereby I formally invite any and all androgynes to come to my little patch in the forest to have cake and talk about how funny those normals are.
Bring your towel.
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on September 13, 2010, 02:36:07 PM
Sounds like a good time for a cake party.
Did someone say cake?! I hope it's chocolate ;D
Z
Chocolate and Strawberry. It'll be a middle point between that, of course.
We will also have a few vanilla cake, for those who aren't into the bittersweet flavor of ambiguity.
Quote from: Zythyra on September 13, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
Did someone say cake?! I hope it's chocolate ;D
Z
A bacon cake would be good too.
Quote from: riven1 on September 15, 2010, 06:18:35 PM
A bacon cake would be good too.
That does sound good! But, I'm also on more Percocet than I like, and in more pain than I like. And I'm hungry.
Quote from: riven1 on September 15, 2010, 06:18:35 PM
A bacon cake would be good too.
I've seen bacon used on Cupcake Wars...it could happen.
Quote from: riven1 on September 15, 2010, 06:18:35 PM
A bacon cake would be good too.
No Percocet and less pain, and a bacon cake still sounds good, which got me to thinking about bacon pie. That lead to pumpkin pie with bacon bits on top. Then chocolate cake with bacon frosting....... There's a pan of brownies downstairs. And real bacon bits (don't read the ingredients on the label....ever) in a jar in the fridge. Later.