Hi guys, can I ask you all your opinion on the rings, studs and other hardware you decorate yourselves with?
Do you think such things are more girlie than boyish? I personally think it is.
Do you think that such hardware draws attention to make people look harder at your faces and so possibly spot femaleness? Again I do.
I have to say that in my town there are very few piercings to be seen except for girls getting them all over their faces and punk/goth/rough guys getting them in their ears and eyebrows.
I tend to think that piercings attract their attention so their not looking at the femaleness but at the piercing.
I see lots of guys with piercings, although I see alot of girls with monroes, medusas and tragus piercings so I think it depends on what piercings you have.
Quote from: Nathan. on July 29, 2010, 03:29:58 PM
I tend to think that piercings attract their attention so their not looking at the femaleness but at the piercing.
This. And I've seen many more guys than girls with lip rings/eyebrow rings/other facial piercings (not ears) than girls. Maybe it's just my area, but I really don't think facial piercings scream "female" or "feminine" anything.
For me, eyebrow piercing and nose piercings scream "girl" to me, but it's mainly girls I see with those piercings. When I see snake bites I just think of "punks" because I've seen them on guys and girls. Lip rings I see as more masculine, though, probably because I've seen more guys with them.
I think if you have the piercing in the wrong spot then it could draw notice to the more female aspects of your face, just like various bits of make-up can also.
I agree that it depends where the piercing is, but also what kind of ring or stud is used. But pretty much I think its a unisex thing now, atleast where I live it is. No one's ever mentioned to me that my snake bites are feminine when it comes to the question of passing. Not to sound too confident, but I also think I can get away with an eyebrow piercing (which is what I'm getting next) and everyone's said it'd look ok on me. So I guess it also depends who it is, facial features and such
In the area i live everyone has piercings, guys and girls. I think how it looks on you just depends on the person.
I have seen more guys with snakebites then girls.
and, I had to take my snakebites out for a job interview and my face looked much more feminine and soft without the rings, I think that the rings on each side evened out my face and somehow made my jaw appear larger.
I think piercings are for either gender. There's plenty of them around here. I used to have my ears pierced all up the sides of my cartilidge but I took out most of them cause I thought they looked too girly. Now I only have my conch on both sides, one cartlidge and both lobes gauged. I also have my lip and tongue. It depends alot on what jewelry you use too. Sparkly gems? Yeah, you'll probably be read not as male if you're pre-T.
Mostly they scream unemployed, or minimal wage at best.
They do make retainers so you can hide them when you work yanno.
One thing I love about my septum piercing is that I can flip it up and you can't tell I have it.
Quote from: tekla on July 29, 2010, 05:48:47 PM
Mostly they scream unemployed, or minimal wage at best.
Take them out at work, no big deal. I make well over minimum wage with my piercings even
It all depends on how the person WEARS them. My sig is Andro and they have a labret piercing and gauges. They pass for male quite often. One of the people I used to know decided to gauge his ears early on in his transition and the rings made him look very feminine but once he switched the hardware to something more masculine, he passed flawlessly. He also has his tongue pierced. -shrug- At the same time I know plenty of cis guys who have all ranges of facial piercings.
Unless you're wearing large hoop/dangly earings and diamond nose studs, I don't think it really screams FEMALEEE. Just avoid butterfly bellybutton charms and you should be ok XD
Quote from: Shade on July 29, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
One thing I love about my septum piercing is that I can flip it up and you can't tell I have it.
oh, i so want one... but there's something fishy with my nose, so i can't :-\
also, people round here are quite relaxed about such things, so no worries...
For me, I chose to go with a little different style for my eyebrow hardware - I got the spikes:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi988.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf7%2FTJLiles%2F078.jpg&hash=8e6200cb9af3b87ffe833c38076128b05cda947f)
Some styles and small hardware do look more feminine, but I think it's more as has already been said in that it's how you wear them. I want to get more piercings eventually, but I'll choose wisely based on my facial features.
shopping around town yesterday the person with the most piercings was a big rough horrible guy wearing camo boot and clothes, long grey pigtail down his back and big horrible beard...he rattled when he moved from all the junk in his skin...
I think he must live in some wilderness fantasy bubble...
I don't pass without my piercings. I can't get served without them either. I have three rings in my lip, a septum ring and slightly stretched ears.
So the formula seem to be:
no piercings: 15 year old girl
piercings: 18 year old guy
Sticking with the metalface me thinks :P
Quote from: lilacwoman on August 08, 2010, 04:43:31 AM
shopping around town yesterday the person with the most piercings was a big rough horrible guy wearing camo boot and clothes, long grey pigtail down his back and big horrible beard...he rattled when he moved from all the junk in his skin...
I think he must live in some wilderness fantasy bubble...
oh hey, that was me, glad you like my metal :laugh:
ok, i kid. but really, did you start this topic just because you don't like piercings? because that's what it sounds like.
Quote from: tekla on July 29, 2010, 05:48:47 PM
Mostly they scream unemployed, or minimal wage at best.
This is substantially true, and should be borne in mind.
- N
Quote from: tekla on July 29, 2010, 05:48:47 PM
Mostly they scream unemployed, or minimal wage at best.
Hmmm... sounds like something that someone who judges others by their appearance would say...
Quote from: DRAIN on August 08, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
oh hey, that was me, glad you like my metal :laugh:
ok, i kid. but really, did you start this topic just because you don't like piercings? because that's what it sounds like.
well no I don't like them but I do think locally they are girl's things...my boss crosses her fingers everytime her two teen girls go shopping in case they come back with piercings or tattoos.
Quote from: tekla on July 29, 2010, 05:48:47 PM
Mostly they scream unemployed, or minimal wage at best.
Thats not always true, I know someone who is very heavily modded and she works in a lab for the NHS not exactly sure what she does but it's not minimum wage. She has about 90% of her body tattooed, stretched lobes and labret, tongue split etc
Owww tongue split! Yeah that is one that is cool for others but all I can think is oww. I knew people at my old job who made almost $15 an hour with piercings in which is about double minimum wage in a few states. I think piercings can be both. I've been told I look more masculine with 1 ear gauged but with both it looks feminine on me. (I wear a 6 gauge captive usually)
I use to have an industrial, and apparently that was just screaming "I'm a lesbian," now I just have a stud in my left ear.
It always depends on the individual, but off the top of my head,
eyebrow, nose stud, cartilage, hoops in one or both ears, or studs in both: feminine
tongue: female or gay
industrial, a LOT of cartilage piercings: lesbian
septum, snake bites, lip, gauged ears: unisex/goth/metal head/skater/punk/hippie
chin: masculine
spikes in general: lesbian or masculine, depending
split tongue, piercing corset: "non conformist"
i have to agree with tekla for the most part. anything but traditional earlobe piercings are unprofessional, and the holes when the metal is removed tend to attract more attention than the piercings themselves.
we, as a society, create the standard of what is and is not "professional." It's completely relative, and (somewhat) arbitrary, and I think it's important that we try to get over things like that.
not to say I'm above it. If my doctor walks in and is tattooed and pierced up the wazoo, I would definitely think twice, before reminding myself that he went through med school like every other doctor.
Quote from: spinaltap on August 08, 2010, 07:31:54 PM
we, as a society, create the standard of what is and is not "professional." It's completely relative, and (somewhat) arbitrary, and I think it's important that we try to get over things like that.
i agree with this. and a lot of the "ew look at that guy with lots of tattoos and piercings, what a freak!" sounds very similar to me to "ew look at that man in a dress, what a freak!"
Post Merge: August 08, 2010, 07:58:55 PM
and not to mention, a lot of the same employment problems that exist for the modified community existed and still exist for the trans community....a lot of employers don't want people with giant gauged ears, tons of visible tattoos, and several facial piercings working for them...a lot of employers also don't want a "man" that has long hair, long painted nails, wears feminine clothing, etc or a "woman" with a crew cut, men's clothing, etc. i know a lot of you will scream "but that's different!" but to Joe Schmoe CEO is it really?
Quote from: spinaltap on August 08, 2010, 07:31:54 PM
It's completely relative, and (somewhat) arbitrary...
You are welcome to express your values in the modification of your property and person, and to associate as you please, but others retain a similar right. With regard to my own profession, given that our lives are dedicated to creation and to refinement, we do not generally contract business with those who deface themselves or their property. Given that we are internationally mobile, we cannot be forced; we simply offshore the job. Many other professions operate in a similar manner.
Freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequence. Best of luck in your career.
- N
Quote from: Nimetön on August 08, 2010, 08:27:02 PM
You are welcome to express your values in the modification of your property and person, and to associate as you please, but others retain a similar right. With regard to my own profession, given that our lives are dedicated to creation and to refinement, we do not generally contract business with those who deface themselves or their property. Given that we are internationally mobile, we cannot be forced; we simply offshore the job. Many other professions operate in a similar manner.
Freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequence. Best of luck in your career.
- N
This is the SAME mentality that makes it so difficult for anyone that's different.
If you want to conform to the antiquated standards of appearance that the straight, conservative corporate world maintains, you go right ahead, make your money and laugh at us right along with your office friends ... I really don't know what would possess you to make a statement like that here....
"Non TG" ............. Obviously >:(
Quote from: JessicaR on August 08, 2010, 01:25:17 PM
Hmmm... sounds like something that someone who judges others by their appearance would say...
Not to me, sounds like something that someone who is aware that employers judge by appearance would say.
Quote from: JessicaR on August 08, 2010, 09:03:50 PM
I really don't know what would possess you to make a statement like that here....
While I do not generally reply to
cris de coeur, it seems appropriate to address the specific concerns in this one. The motive which possesses me is the motive of the site itself, as described by Susan Larson in her post
Site Terms of Service and rules to live by: "This web site exists try to provide constructive input and support." I will provide an elaboration on the previous post in the hopes that some of those present on this forum will benefit from this advice.
The corporate world maintains conservative standards as an adaptation to its survival needs. We are, regardless of our specific functions, archivists and analysts of information for the purpose of risk assessment and resource management, and the business environment in which we function is one of extreme complexity and volatility, especially in an increasingly international and technological economy. In such an environment, all of our resources must remain constantly productive and remain perpetually at risk; in order to survive, we must minimize risk and maximize competitive productivity by continual adaptation. These are the core values of the corporate world.
One can train employees for specific skills, and may relocate resources as needed, but values cannot be trained; they must be selected for by means of the hiring process. Therefore, while purely functional positions (such as manufacturing laborer) are hired for based upon skills and replaced by machines at the earliest opportunity, persons seeking positions requiring human agency and judgment are largely hired based upon their values; we use the prospective employee's skills, education, prior experience, interview responses, demeanor, and appearance to determine the compatibility between the prospect's values and ambitions and those of the corporation itself, and to determine the prospect's ability to adapt to the responsibilities of the position and to the changing business environment. Those who demonstrate a refusal to adapt themselves to the needs of the corporation possess values which are not compatible with the corporation; if hired, these people would become current and long-term liabilities on both a functional and a public basis.
We do not make your lives difficult. We do not live in an interdependent society, but are free and independent persons with individual ambitions and values. You are free to live in any manner you choose, and you are not dependent upon us for employment any more than we are dependent upon you for services; you may form your own business or contract with those who's values match your own, and we will do likewise. If you wish to contract business with us, then the onus is upon you to demonstrate, by appearance and by action as well as by speech, that your values coincide with ours.
Thus, as I said, freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequence. Best of luck in your career.
- N
I wrote a very long, well detailed post but it didn't actually submit to the thread so I'll give the abridged version.
Where I live tattoos, body mods, and piercings done professionally are very expensive. I tend to think that people that get a lot of metal or ink must have a decent income or are able to budget themselves to have a lot of money left over. Considering that my 3x3 inch simple black ink design was done by a not so great artist for around $90, I would assume that the cost of full sleeves has to be over $1,000. Piercings are also expensive, and there's the jewelry. Hand made pieces fairly expensive. Consider that one set of quality glass plugs (for stretched piercings) are $50 and there are maybe 5 sizes where a person would stay at that size for a few months for healing. $250 if they were to spend that much on jewelry.
They could have a job that isn't the standard 9-5. I know of some teachers that have a lot of tattoos, they wear long sleeves and slacks so nothing is shown but that's strictly in the work place. I don't think that piercings or tattoos are feminine or masculine.
Arrogant people suck :)
Corporations are not people.
They are made up of people, and those individuals can be open minded - but the corporation itself has no moral compass. It does not hate or have contempt, and it does not love or support. It is not a singular entity that can be "reasoned" with - especially on emotional, moral or subjective grounds. It is not an enemy, but (despite what the ads may tell you) it is not a friend.
It exists for one purpose - to make a profit. If an open minded hiring policy will not significantly increase profit, then the corporation will continue to act in the way that has served it best in the past.
It's not personal - it's just business.
On topic : I have a vertical labret with small matte black spikes. I'd say it's masculine. It is the only piercing I have, I don't intend to get more. I am not what you'd call "heavily modded".
I have to agree with Nimeton that many companies, particularly the larger ones, do have a conservative aesthetic and are likely to frown on anyone with an unconventional appearance or manner (this includes transpeople). Would you want to work for a company like that? Me neither.
My solution has been to move to a part of the world that has an open-minded, liberal approach, so that I can walk down the street with my tattoos, piercings, butch clothes and dyed hair without being harrassed. I have also gravitated towards open-minded, liberal employers whose values I identify with. Now that I am established in my career and self-employed, I present as a professional person with all my "outlandish" rigmarole. Does it freak out my clients? Nope. They invariably say "I LOVE your hair. I wish I had the courage to do that".
We move towards the cultures that suit us. It is the only way to stay sane.
I see an equal number of guys and girls with piercings. I don't think it makes people look more masculine or more feminine, it's rather neutral imo. Not my thing personally. I did have my cartilage pierced but had to remove all jewelry for surgery and never put it back in.
It's also common knowledge that employers don't look too highly on piercings and tattoos. But if you really see someone with piercings and automatically assume that they are unemployed/making minimum wage, then you're being very judgmental. Plus most of the people I see with facial piercings look like they're still in high school, when a solid career isn't something they're worried about. I fail to see how a kid with a piercing is hurting their future job opportunities.
Personally -- I think peircings, when placed in the right area and are properly sized -- Can make your face seem more, or less masculine/feminine. Not all peircings are the same, and some combined with others can give certain facial shapes a more masculine appearence -- while others would make that same facial shape feminine. It's all in the way you place your hardware. XDD
<3 Alun