I have been trying to figure this one for sometime know, I have charts at work that show different muscle groups and such but I can not find any information about how to or stretches designed to assist in crossing your legs in a more feminine manner. No matter what I do I can cross my legs but I can not keep them crossed for long and I must almost force them into place. Could it be GG just have wider hips or am I missing something altogether.
As far as I know I have a normal 'male' pelvis and have no problems crossing my legs that I am aware of, so in theory it should be possible. As an alternative one can always cross one's ankles, I think anyway.
Quote from: ssindysmith on December 05, 2006, 12:45:35 PM
Could it be GG just have wider hips or am I missing something altogether.
It helps, although most/many males can cross them that way too.
I once read that males DO generally have a problem crossing their legs knee-over-knee AND then tucking the dangling foot behind the other leg... intertwining them. Supposedly, THAT is an indicator of a wider pelvis.
Oughta be a poll, lol...
When I first went RLT I wanted to cross my legs just like the women do. I had a hard time at it and I noticed that some women don't cross their legs either, I think it was because of their weight or/and the shortness of their thigh. I lost about 60 lbs and now can cross my legs and I really like to sit that way. I have noticed that some guys who are very limber can cross their legs in a fem. manner. It is very easy for them. I still can't cross my legs under a table, if I do then the table will be history. My knee comes up too far as I have fairly large thighs and my legs are long for a woman, short for a man though(that is history).
Sheila
Quote from: Sheila on December 05, 2006, 01:09:56 PM
I still can't cross my legs under a table, if I do then the table will be history.
LOL! That's cute Sheila. I usually just sit how I feel comfortable. Something I read a while back said that crossing your legs in a female manner is a contributor of vericose veins. :o Somthing to think about. I think it's fine to cross them in moderation. ;D
Melissa
I can do the "standard" leg cross, i.e., knee over knee, but can not dangle the foot behind and latch it into place. I would need a rope and pulley to get it back there, and probably two to reclaim it! I believe hip structure and weight have a lot to do with it, as well as the Carnegie Hall qualification: Practice - Practice - Practice.
Susan Kay
Quote from: SusanKay140 on December 05, 2006, 01:56:00 PM
Practice - Practice - Practice.
Ya know, that could be true! I've always done that (foot hooking thing), even as a child, because I was constantly trying to intertwine into a ball, become small, and disappear. I just can't stand having both feet on the floor, or sitting like a guy simply because it's too "open" and... territorial? I also tuck my foot UNDER the other thigh when in a chair. There's just something about having two feet firmly planted on the ground that's antithetical to me, rofl...
There's a technique for shifting a car called, "heel and toe." I tried it a few times, and it was just physically IMPOSSIBLE. Bending my ankle in a funny way, timing everything... just NO way. But I get REALLY stubborn when I want something, so I kept at it. And now it's just second nature to me. I don't even think about it. The muscles and joints just got used to moving in new ways eventually.
Quote from: Kate on December 05, 2006, 01:04:17 PM
I once read that males DO generally have a problem crossing their legs knee-over-knee AND then tucking the dangling foot behind the other leg... intertwining them. Supposedly, THAT is an indicator of a wider pelvis.
I can do that, I can do that... So it means I have a wider pelvis or a wider butt... I'll go with the wider pelvis :)
Steph
Quote from: Kate on December 05, 2006, 01:04:17 PM
I once read that males DO generally have a problem crossing their legs knee-over-knee AND then tucking the dangling foot behind the other leg... intertwining them. Supposedly, THAT is an indicator of a wider pelvis.
This should be quite easy, but it's not
[copyrighted image removed]
This would be great
[copyrighted image removed]
I think women have just different bone structure than men.
What I've seen on yoga class it's just easier to women do positions where legs are crossed
like the lotus
[copyrighted image removed]
So it seems that women pelvis is much movable than mens... But I hope I can do the lotus position in 3-4 years then maybe crossing legs is easy for me also ::) ::)
Ive never had troubble crossing my legs... I do it unconciously.... I can wrap my leg around and lock one foot behind the other ankel, and then reverse it to the other side... I think I do have a somewhat wider pelvis though. Up untill October Id get jibed for crossing my legs the way I do... and now people understand LoL. Its probably a combination of muscel tone and the pelvis... my moms is fused together like a guys and she has troubble crossing her legs so *shrugs*
First of all I know I can't do the leg hook thing because I have too much leg muscles (I've always had incredibly strong legs). Notice how skinny those legs are in the pics. Once my anti-androgens actually start working, then I might be able too.
Quote from: Dweia on December 05, 2006, 02:18:43 PM
What I've seen on yoga class it's just easier to women do positions where legs are crossed
like the lotus
[copyrighted image removed]
So it seems that women pelvis is much movable than mens... But I hope I can do the lotus position in 3-4 years then maybe crossing legs is easy for me also ::) ::)
Well, I can easily do that. Growing up, I was always the most flexible boy ::). I mean we used to do this stretch in PE type classes called the butterfly where they have you put your feet together and push your legs to the floor. My legs always went straight to the floor and I had to literally touch my heels as close to my torso as possible to even feel anything. It got kind of frustrating sometimes.
Melissa
WOW what a great response so far :) I consider myself pretty limber I can do the splits then roll forward then backwards "crotch grind" but I can not cross my legs in a very feminine way ???
Quote from: Kiera on December 05, 2006, 03:10:27 PM
We want - we DEMAND - a demonstration of Kate's ankle lock!!!
ROFL.. I'll grab the camera when I get home ;)
QuoteI cannot imagine -- description please!!!!
This is SO off-topic, lol... though I guess I'll claim it shows how you can retrain the joints and muscles a bit (though this is more of a coordination thing)... from Edmunds:
Here is a step-by-step guide on how to heel-and-toe downshift. It will explain how to shift from fourth gear to third gear, though the technique will work for any downshift.
1. Begin braking for the corner with your right foot. The location of the pedals and the size of your foot will dictate where you position your foot on the pedal, but most likely it should be canted a little to the right, closer to the throttle pedal.
2. Push in the clutch with your left foot.
3. This is the hard part. With your right foot still applying pressure to the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the throttle pedal. The pedal design on some cars makes this easier to do than on others. Use the outside of your right foot to blip the throttle. Blipping the throttle means temporarily raising the engine rpms to match the wheel speed. The exact amount of revs needed is dependent on a variety of factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.
4. Move the shifter to third gear.
5. Release the clutch with your left foot.
As you can see, "heel-and-toe" is a misnomer. It actually involves the ball of your foot and the side of your foot. We'll be the first to tell you that heel-and-toe downshifts aren't easy.
Hmmm ::) ::) ::)
Let's look at this picture
Note! Naked woman .. you are warned ;)
[unauthorized link removed]
It seems so easy in the pic :-\ :-\
Go on the floor and try to sit that position.
Try to move the left feet on different position :o :o
Quote from: Kiera on December 05, 2006, 03:39:22 PM
Quote from: Dweia on December 05, 2006, 03:34:40 PMHmmm ::) ::) ::)
Still No Tuck!!!
You need to define "Tuck" for me... I just don't understand it ::) ::)
Quote from: Kiera on December 05, 2006, 03:10:27 PM
we DEMAND - a demonstration of Kate's ankle lock!!!
Tada!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Ewildfaerie%2Fcrossed.jpg&hash=997687a8bd38c244021a259e7d5fd96513522772)
i just have to point out to anybody thinking of trying the "heel and toe" it takes alot of practice to get the hang of it, and should NEVER be practiced on an open road. for front whel drives it is very easy to loose traction on the front and understeer or for a rear wheel go into a powerslide. you have been warned.
heluva lotta fun when you master it though :D
oh and i can croos my legs the same way, but certain things are getting in the way for now and make it uncomfortable :S
Annnnnnnnnd.... not to be out done the valiant Steph does her thing druuuuuuuuum rooooooooooooolllllllllll
-=(Poof}=-
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fstephanie_craxford%2Fimages%2Fleghook-sm.jpg&hash=31bcd41c87f3b6bc10f24b9996d0463232e3fbf3)
Does anyone know how to get out of this :)
Steph
Okay you skinny bitches........ :D just stop it....
Gill
Quote from: Steph on December 05, 2006, 07:34:49 PM
Annnnnnnnnd.... not to be out done the valiant Steph does her thing druuuuuuuuum rooooooooooooolllllllllll
ROFL... allrighty then, can you get into a lotus position... *without* using your hands to pull 'em up?
Huh? Can ya? lol...
Quote from: Kate on December 05, 2006, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Steph on December 05, 2006, 07:34:49 PM
Annnnnnnnnd.... not to be out done the valiant Steph does her thing druuuuuuuuum rooooooooooooolllllllllll
ROFL... allrighty then, can you get into a lotus position... *without* using your hands to pull 'em up?
Huh? Can ya? lol...
LOL not a chance in you know what... You win O mighty one... I bow to the supreme one :P
Steph
Quote from: Steph on December 05, 2006, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Kate on December 05, 2006, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Steph on December 05, 2006, 07:34:49 PM
Annnnnnnnnd.... not to be out done the valiant Steph does her thing druuuuuuuuum rooooooooooooolllllllllll
ROFL... allrighty then, can you get into a lotus position... *without* using your hands to pull 'em up?
Huh? Can ya? lol...
LOL not a chance in you know what...
Good! Me neither, rofl...
That's tellin' 'em, Gill!
(sotto voce: darn showoffs!)
Hugs & Smiles (from formerly flexible)
helen
Uh, some can't do it? I started reading this thread and then tried it just to see if I could do it:
Left leg over right, then a little momentum build up and -- Voila! that wasn't too hard.
Okay, right over left...not as limber but I can move the left leg out and get it and then move the right leg back in (is that cheating or something?) A little tight, but if I continue to do it I'll likely limber up more.
When I first started to transition, I made a conscious effort to give up crossing the legs figure-4-style. It was tight at first -- I had to help my legs into position, then have them go to sleep on me.
Funny, now I do it easily and without thinking. And I don't think my hips are wide at all.
I think if you're having problems right now, keep at it. You might limber up before you know it.
Karen
IMO a person who is overweight or short in stature will have more problems to cross her legs than a person who is...let's say...slender and tall.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
I have difficulty crossing my legs. My stepfather always sits with his legs crossed.
I think the ability has more to do with an individual's build than whether that person is genetically male or female.
Kate and Steph ... Wow
:eusa_clap: :eusa_dance: :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance: :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance:
And the lotus position seems to be quite hard.
At least one of the male teachers does it without helping with hands, but not all female teachers ::) ::)
I can do it! Not really comfortable to stay that way for too long, but I guess I'm a member of the leg crossers club. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informanews.net%2FIPBforum%2Fstyle_emoticons%2Fdefault%2Fyeah.gif&hash=0b2a647b36ec0eeaa865a0949e7074e113111411)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857) Kristi
Well.. funny thing happened tonight ::) ::)
I was watching Narnia with my son... We sit on a sofa and I realized that my legs were crossed :o :o :o
And actually I could do it with both legs ::) ::)
Seems to be easier on the sofa than in this chair...
There have been psychological studies on whether men are better at crossing legs, or women. Ideally, if you look at the anatomy, women should be better because of one simple thing. They don't have something blocking their legs like men do. Even for transgender individuals, the idea is still the same.
So, "theoretically" you shouldn't have any problems, ssindysmith. Otherwise, it's probably just that you need to so some stretching exercises. Stretches like the one where you sit down with your legs together out in front of you. Then you slowly move them apart from each other going outward.
Actually, if you're up for it, I would suggest taking martial arts classes. I'm not kidding either. They do some great stretching exercises every class. There's one where you keep one leg out infront of you (while sitting down) straight. Then the other leg goes behind you. So, your legs should form a upside-down "7". As you should know, martial arts students need their legs to be flexible so they can swing them around at every angle. And you don't even need to go to martial arts classes to learn fighting techniques. You can simply go for exercising.
Quote from: Jules on December 09, 2006, 05:45:19 PM
Actually, if you're up for it, I would suggest taking martial arts classes. I'm not kidding either. They do some great stretching exercises every class. There's one where you keep one leg out infront of you (while sitting down) straight. Then the other leg goes behind you. So, your legs should form a upside-down "7". As you should know, martial arts students need their legs to be flexible so they can swing them around at every angle. And you don't even need to go to martial arts classes to learn fighting techniques. You can simply go for exercising.
True. I've done the side splits twice and both times were when doing the stretching exercises for a martial arts class (2 different classes).
Melissa
I've done it for as long as I remember - both legs
I used to do it in school and I remember the teacher once saying that "boys don't sit like that" at the time I had no clue on what she was saying and kept on doing it.
As I got older I kept doing it and would have things said to me by other boys. they went over my head.
I find it just a better way to sit.
I also sit most of the time on my bed with my legs crossed while on my laptop. I guess that if you've always done it the legs are used to it.
right now I have my right leg over my left, my left foot on its side resting.
Quote from: Nicole on December 12, 2006, 04:13:21 AM
I used to do it in school and I remember the teacher once saying that "boys don't sit like that" at the time I had no clue on what she was saying and kept on doing it.
Heh, I remember my mother forcing me to wear a dress to a school dance in grade 8 and being told kindly by a grade 10 that sitting with my legs apart and my elbows on my knees was not done in a dress.
Dennis
Quote from: Jules on December 09, 2006, 05:45:19 PMThere have been psychological studies on whether men are better at crossing legs, or women. Ideally, if you look at the anatomy, women should be better because of one simple thing. They don't have something blocking their legs like men do. Even for transgender individuals, the idea is still the same.
So, you're suggesting that, for pre-op MtFs, wearing a gaff will facilitate more readily doing the knee-over-knee leg cross?
...interesting...
Karen
I didn't think I'd be able to intertwine my legs, but it was easy going right over left, and I got it after a few attempts going left over right.
Data of interest: I am biologically male, 6', 137 pounds, definitely don't have wide hips, and am not MtF.
Quote from: ChildOfTheLight on December 17, 2006, 10:53:55 AMData of interest: I am biologically male, 6', 137 pounds, definitely don't have wide hips, and am not MtF.
Exactly! Those dimensions make you skinny. Some of us like being a bit bigger. ;)
Melissa
That "heel-and-toe" manouver is fine....until you try it with HIGH HEELS......(!)
I guess it's possible for even slightly larger women like myself, since I finally did it. I think I lost enough muscle mass in my legs.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.melissagirl.com%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2Fleghook.jpg&hash=515df50b83d90bcf781374dfa3f93e9c597f402c)
Melissa
Thanks. I just figured out I could do it this morning.
Melissa
I think we have discovered a new Olympic event. Must follow the "Melissa" traditional dress model - no pants allowed! :D
Susan Kay
I guess hose could be optional.
Congrats Melissa!
I'm still waiting to lose the muscle mass... and waiting... and
Well I'm not going to hold my breath.
Karen Lyn :icon_female:
Now that my doctor upped my dose of spiro, I am noticing my legs and arms are noticably smaller. I think that's why I can do the leg thing now and not before.
Quote from: SusanKay140 on December 30, 2006, 04:53:03 PM
I think we have discovered a new Olympic event. Must follow the "Melissa" traditional dress model - no pants allowed! :D
Um, well, that's just what I was wearing to work that day. :P I do like how my legs look in the pic though. ;D
Melissa
Quote from: KarenLyn on January 08, 2007, 10:15:11 PM
I'm still waiting to lose the muscle mass... and waiting... and:
Patience :)
I noticed last week that my upper arms look very different. Not thinner OR fatter, but... sleeker? Smoother? More tubular, not as muscular. But then I figured it was wishful thinking...
Until I stretched my arms up when waking up over the weekend, and my wife said,
"your arms are so different... you don't have muscle there now anymore." I hadn't said anything to her.
And I *swear* jars are becoming more difficult to open. I keep catching myself thinking,
"Why are ALL these jars so hard to open?" Then I realize, lol... and have to laugh... hmmm...
I just wish the upper back would fade.... darn it...
Kate
Quote from: Kate on January 08, 2007, 10:42:09 PM
I noticed last week that my upper arms look very different. Not thinner OR fatter, but... sleeker? Smoother? More tubular, not as muscular. But then I figured it was wishful thinking...
That's interesting. My arms were
always tubular shaped...unless I flexed. My ex always said I had "girl arms" too. They are still the same way, however now they actually are looking thinner. I know it's not wishful thinking, because I kept saying "it's not working, it's not working" and then I look and I'm like "whoa, when did that happen?" I am also VERY sore lately, and I am sure it's due to my muscles rapidly shrinking, because I am doing nothing else different. Now to just get rid of all that fat too. :P Want some Kate? ;)
Melissa
when I was young I was able to cross my legs in a fem matter unconsciously. I stop at the age of 10 because when my aunt saw me doing it, she would slap my thigh and tell me that is a girl thing not a man thing. I started crossing my legs when in private unconsciously about 2 years ago and I've doing it ever sense.
OH! What fun!! A GG on-line friend describes her way of crossing her legs like this but I've never thought to try. I've always been able to maneuver my legs into seemingly uncomfortable possitions..ala yoga..and was able to cross both legs with the foot tucked behind my other leg on the first try :D
At home and at therapy, my legs are always either crossed at the knee, or tucked under me.
I crossed my legs as far back as I could remember. In fact it is probably the one persistent feminine behavior that I have had since I was a little kid.
I also can do the double cross, though I am going to say it is not something I would do regularly.
Crossing my legs has always been natural to me. I never had a problem doing it.
I have also always crossed my legs, as far as I can remember. I can get the cross and tuck right over left, but not easy. Have to kind of straighted the left and get right back then bring left back. I think this has to do with
me being addicted to Taco Bell and Pepsis..LOL
At 5'8 and 185 lbs( all in the belly!!!) But left over right, I can barely manage knee over knee( guess that has mort to do with the fact Im
a month post op on my left knee.
Crossing the ankles with the knees held closely together and the calves at an angle one way or the other is every bit as feminine as crossing at the knees, and for me, considerably more comfortable.
FYI, in body language, crossing the legs at the knees is "shutting out" while crossing at the ankles is "welcoming" and a bit submissive.
However, one advantage to crossing at the knees while wearing a skirt and pumps is that you can "dangle' your shoe which is a bit flirtatious :)
Pam