Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: Britney♥Bieber on September 03, 2010, 11:29:05 PM

Title: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 03, 2010, 11:29:05 PM
I live in California, and I'm curious when I can change my gender. My therapist gave me a list of TG laws in California, and it says you can change your name and gender on your license without doing any surgery or hormones, but will I be legally female if I do that or do I need SRS to be legally female? I really hope not, if I'm living as a female and my name is changed to Kimberly, I should be able to change my gender, but I'm curious about the laws. I couldn't find anything on google, so if anyone knows anything please let me know! Thanks in advance <3
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Nero on September 03, 2010, 11:34:42 PM
I think you have to change your gender with Social Security to be completely legal.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 03, 2010, 11:38:22 PM
Do I need srs to do that? Lemme go look at the list of laws!!
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Janet_Girl on September 03, 2010, 11:41:35 PM
Birth certificate should be changed.  And the SSA has rules regarding changing your gender.  You have to have "Irreversible genital surgery".  The boys just have to have top surgery and us girls just need an Orchie.  But the surgeon letter has to say those words.  Otherwise you aren't really legally female.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 03, 2010, 11:42:53 PM
Damn :( It's gonna be a while before I can get any surgery and it really bothers me going around as a girl listed as male. I'm just kinda scared I guess. =/
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Janet_Girl on September 03, 2010, 11:47:31 PM
well if you are think about the work situation, you will just have to out yourself.   But do the name and gender change on the license and then change the name with the SSA.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 03, 2010, 11:54:44 PM
Well right now I'm michael and a boy and that's what I look like so I'm not worried yet. But I'm just scared people won't hire a trans person. :( And I'm just scared of the wrong person finding out. I guess it'll always be that way. =/
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Janet_Girl on September 04, 2010, 12:05:29 AM
You can't just go back into a box.

When I went full time, I came out at work.  Yes I worked there as a guy before, but I changed the license and the name.  They changed my records there even though the SSA said there was a mismatch on the gender.  They just ignored it.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
Well when I get a job I'm going to be out, I'm just worried it'll hurt my chances at getting a job.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Natasha on September 04, 2010, 12:13:27 AM
SSA policy:

QuoteCorrection/Change: SEX
   

Supporting:
   

Sex-Change Operation: The surgeon or attending physician must provide a letter verifying the sex change surgery has been completed. All documents must clearly identify the NH.

IMPORTANT: Numident sex data is used for identification purposes only. Do not use the sex data shown on the Numident to determine whether a valid marital relationship exists in a claims situation. Rather, consult appropriate State law to make a determination whether a valid marital relationship exists

Keying Error: To correct a keying error, the prior application must be reviewed. If the application is a MES-generated application, do not presume there was a keying error. If the prior application is not reviewed, obtain a new application with proper evidence. The person must submit evidence showing the correct sex. The evidence must have been established before the CYD date of the Numident with the incorrect entry.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203215 (https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203215)

California DMV form:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf)

Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 12:16:16 AM
Quote from: Natasha on September 04, 2010, 12:13:27 AM
SSA policy:

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203215 (https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203215)

California DMV form:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf)

Thanks I'll look this stuff over :D
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: tori319 on September 04, 2010, 12:48:54 AM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 03, 2010, 11:41:35 PM
Birth certificate should be changed.  And the SSA has rules regarding changing your gender.  You have to have "Irreversible genital surgery".  The boys just have to have top surgery and us girls just need an Orchie.  But the surgeon letter has to say those words.  Otherwise you aren't really legally female.
Are you sure that your talking about California because I could have sworn that I read you only have to be on hormones and living as a female.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Nero on September 04, 2010, 12:53:33 AM
Quote from: tori319 on September 04, 2010, 12:48:54 AM
Are you sure that your talking about California because I could have sworn that I read you only have to be on hormones and living as a female.

I think Janet means for SSA.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 01:01:37 AM
Sorry, but what does SSA stand for?
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Janet_Girl on September 04, 2010, 01:03:22 AM
SSA = Social Security Administration.  ;D
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 01:06:05 AM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 04, 2010, 01:03:22 AM
SSA = Social Security Administration.  ;D

Thanks Janet! I was thinking it meant social but I was like what's the A for hahaha :P
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Sandy on September 04, 2010, 09:24:03 AM
One of the things you'll have to watch out for when you apply for a job, regardless of which state it is in, is your SSA defined gender.

If you apply with your current SS number and list yourself on the job application as female, but SSA lists you as male, it will bounce back.  Also, if your job offers health insurance, the gender mismatch could come back.

If you are applying to the job in stealth, then you could put your job in jeopardy.  If they know you are in transition and that your records will be appropriately amended as time goes along, then they may accept your condition.

Additionally, the listed rules can sometimes be "bent".  I applied in person to record my legal name change to the SSA office and as the person was going through the process, he simply looked at me and asked "Do you want me to change the gender too?"  Of course I said yes.  I tried not to jump up and yell YIPPEE until I got out of the office though.

I can't say that this would happen for you, but it certainly is worth a shot.  The worst that could happen is that they say no.

-Sandy
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 11:13:42 AM
Quote from: Sandy on September 04, 2010, 09:24:03 AM
One of the things you'll have to watch out for when you apply for a job, regardless of which state it is in, is your SSA defined gender.

If you apply with your current SS number and list yourself on the job application as female, but SSA lists you as male, it will bounce back.  Also, if your job offers health insurance, the gender mismatch could come back.

If you are applying to the job in stealth, then you could put your job in jeopardy.  If they know you are in transition and that your records will be appropriately amended as time goes along, then they may accept your condition.

Additionally, the listed rules can sometimes be "bent".  I applied in person to record my legal name change to the SSA office and as the person was going through the process, he simply looked at me and asked "Do you want me to change the gender too?"  Of course I said yes.  I tried not to jump up and yell YIPPEE until I got out of the office though.

I can't say that this would happen for you, but it certainly is worth a shot.  The worst that could happen is that they say no.

-Sandy

I'm assuming they changed your gender before srs? That sounds like what I'll do then. Worth a shot :P
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Sandy on September 04, 2010, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: KimberlyJean on September 04, 2010, 11:13:42 AM
I'm assuming they changed your gender before srs? That sounds like what I'll do then. Worth a shot :P

Yes, it was about a year before my SRS.  The rules are quite specific about gender change, and I was quite prepared to wait, but to have them change it then was a great boost.

Best of luck!

-Sandy
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Silver on September 04, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
Didn't read the above comments but anyway, as far as I know all you need is "a surgery" and a letter confirming it "altered sexual characteristics."

So not necessarily SRS, but yes, surgery.

Source: I am also in CA.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: Sandy on September 04, 2010, 04:33:11 PM
Yes, it was about a year before my SRS.  The rules are quite specific about gender change, and I was quite prepared to wait, but to have them change it then was a great boost.

Best of luck!

-Sandy
That's awesome! And thanks Silver!
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: April Dawne on September 04, 2010, 09:39:16 PM
GAWD I can't wait to get through all this myself! I might try coming out at my current job and seeing if they will let me transition, and if they can't see their way to accept that, I will graciously take my leave and while collecting unemployment, change my name legally and just go full time. Everyone I know knows about me, except at the workplace (apart from my friend in HR.) It's all still so scary for me, as if right now it's still a dream and could end any time.

*sigh*

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you Kimberly =] you are in my heart and in my thoughts always <3
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Silver on September 04, 2010, 10:04:57 PM
No problem. Better than many states, but still a pain to do. I'll be on T and with a male name but legally F for years ::)
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 04, 2010, 10:19:25 PM
Quote from: Silver on September 04, 2010, 10:04:57 PM
No problem. Better than many states, but still a pain to do. I'll be on T and with a male name but legally F for years ::)

Same but on E and M for years :(


And ty April you'll be in my heart as well bb <3
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Natasha on September 05, 2010, 12:47:35 AM
um..some states (and even the SSA in very rare circumstances) will let you change your gender marker without grs or with a simple orchiectomy .  ya you can circumvent the system in some instances, i suppose, BUT if something happens, say, you get arrested, have an accident, you will be treated as your birth gender if you haven't had grs.  in the end it all comes down to holes vs poles.
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 05, 2010, 01:01:06 AM
Quote from: Natasha on September 05, 2010, 12:47:35 AM
um..some states (and even the SSA in very rare circumstances) will let you change your gender marker without grs or with a simple orchiectomy .  ya you can circumvent the system in some instances, i suppose, BUT if something happens, say, you get arrested, have an accident, you will be treated as your birth gender if you haven't had grs.  in the end it all comes down to holes vs poles.

I really disagree with that. If I'm living as a woman, that's how I should be treated. =/
Title: Re: When can I legally change my gender?
Post by: Britney♥Bieber on September 05, 2010, 11:47:43 AM
Quote from: Dee_pntx on September 05, 2010, 02:47:42 AM

Agree or not, in reality and in practice, that's how it happens.
Life is not fair.  Not even a little.

Oh trust me I know life isn't fair. Haha. But I try not to complain about it because I didn't like myself when I was a complainer :P