Hello, I have almost never posted in this forum, but have been a lurker for a long time. It's been days since I actually wanted to write this post, but couldn't due to being busy and tired. I strongly hope this will be viewed by as many people as possible, as I've noticed that many trans-related forums rarely host stories of people who, during some stage of transition, actually change their minds: regret stories, detransitioners, confused people. Unfortunately, the prevailing attitude I see towards potential transgender people like many in this board and myself, not too long ago, is "if you say and are convinced you are gender x then you ARE gender x, ignore all those who say otherwise or might question you", "if your shrink doesn't agree with you then find a new one who does" and such...only stepping outside of this dangerous narcissistic point of view made me realize that what I had come to label as my "->-bleeped-<-" was nothing more than the sum of my own internalized "patriarchial" belief that female=inferior, subsequent shame of being seen as such and of the shock due to my precocious, unwanted puberty (as well as a fair dose of tomboyishness). A a disclaimer, I do think transsexuality may be a valid condition...but not all transitioned transsexuals are necessarily true transsexuals (as I wouldn't have been had I pursued my foolish mind at the time). I also do not want to attack anyone, merely help those who might find themselves in my same situation: a gender-confused girl who believed herself to really be male and in the end was quite sure of it. And luckily BACKED OFF before irreversible chemical and/or surgical damage was done.
When I was little, I was neither too girly or too boyish: my mom loved dressing me up, and on occasion I did too; I also loved some typical male activities like fighting, videogaming (well, at the time), mountain-biking...at that moment I did not have body dysphoria, though I resented the fact males would be stronger when adults, and my role models were mostly cool male heroes, or, even better, "sworn virgin-type" characters: females in typical male "roles" (often warriors) who never sullied themselved with feminine behaviour. I wanted to beat the males at their own games, for, you see, that was cool...unlike staying in the (toy) kitchen, playing house, you get the picture (I still don't long for those things). I also had a fair share of girl toys, though (anybody remembers Polly Pocket? I had at least 25 of them...), and a bit of a girly side which complemented my tomboyish one. In my little head, the concepts of honor and "masculinity" were closely connected: you could say I grew up with some of the anxieties a little boy might experience, in this regard (be strong! Be cool! Don't cry! Kisses are ewww! Never ask others for help...) One complex in particular scarred my mind: that if a woman were to love, and be loved, by a man, or worse (I didn't fully comprehend sex at age 3, duh), she would lose her honor, she would be inferior because she would be inherently "feminized". This, I believe, is the first nucleus on which my transgender feelings would harbor.
Puberty unfortunately hit me at 10 (I have stopped growing significantly ever since, I'm 5'3), and that, coupled with a sucky metabolism which made me gain weight even though I ate next to nothing, was a big shock: buying my first bra when the other girls jut started having breast buds, menstruating when essentially still a child...and to all of the girls, why me? Of all female classmates, I was definitely the least girly. This unpleasant experience, coupled with new expectations and strange new looks from men, further strengthened the equation female=bad. A true woman, a honorable woman would do all she could to compensate for her natural weaknessess...
With my first crush I had a strange relationship: he was a 12-year-old boy,a karateka in my karate course and also a videogamer. I couldn't admit to myself I liked him, that would have been too feminizing, thus disempowering: he then had to be my role model (which he would also have sorta been, anyway, if I hadn't had that weird complex). We got out of touch as he changed schools and have never really seen him again ever since. At a certain point I had to stop seeing him because I would not stop blushing (pale skin ahoy!).
Middle school was HELL for me: I became a sort of "distant genius", not concerned with gender or sexuality which instead were running rampant in my classmates (I was also in a sort of ghetto town to boot). When I finally gained access to the Internet, I slowly researched things like sexlessness and came across the concept of transsexuality and ->-bleeped-<-, mainly due to the site hosted by Jennifer Diane Reitz, a transsexual woman who I suspect now might have transitioned because, au contraire, she saw men as the ultimate evil. She is NOT to be trusted in these issues: she claims utter scientific validity despite having no credentials and citing no works whatsoever. She also developed a test for unsure, potential MtFs (the COGIATI) which is, to put it gently, a piece of crap which together with her site on transsexuality should be wiped off the earth. I seriously hope no MtF decided to transition based on this "test". But I was young and guillible, and she sounded so dead sure...her site offered a neat explanation for my supposedly strange condition of hating my female body: my brain wasn't female at all! I nurtured the idea for a while, deciding, time after time, it looked sound in my case. Although not still identifying as male, but more in the "twilight zone" of androgyne/neuter, I starte acquiring all the information I could on transsexuality, visiting transsexual boards (I could relate to the FtM complaints about the chest, menstruations, almost everything), and crossressing: this made me realize how too female my body was for my tastes (mainly for the extra weight I had, I store it in a hourglass fashion)...I started having some body dysphoria and admiring the lean, long and muscular bodies of my male classmates. This, in turn, validated my suspicions of TG-ness. All of this happened very slowly, in the span of 2 or 3 years.
It so happened that in the last year of high school I was in a male-only class (we were in a physics-oriented class, very difficult) and I finally noticed how much easier was socializing among males as a sort of "boy", and how much better things would have been had I been born male. I was almost sure I was TG: I gradually stopped wearing even vaguely female clothing, opting for a more androgynous and elegant attire, cut my hair short and dyed it outrageous colors, had my body dysphoria intensified to a point I even felt a phantom penis and was getting male body envy all over! The flat chest, the hipster beard, the hardened skin, everything...(though I could forego baldness eh). I started running like hell to lose weight and finally did it: I was passable as a young, somewhat pretty boy without my long-standing thigh fat. I imagined a full transition in my future, a transition that finally could have given me everything I'd lost being born female: I'd lose my social ankwardness, I'd feel at home with my body and would be a good-looking man (a mostly gay one though), I'd forget the pain female puberty had brought me, I'd be cool...life was about transitioning, or not.
At the same time, horrendous doubts were stalking me in those long night hours, but I brushed them off as more and more people perceived me as a boy, or at least as a "?". That high I got, I realized later, was really shallow, and I myself was extremely shallow and vain in that period. I visited TS forums even more, including this one, for helpful passing tips, topics of TG interest, female body hate rants...
But I was not happy; in fact, the pursuing of masculinity was consuming every single moment of my life. I was like a parasite, pursuing this male fantasy with little regard to anything else, modifying and destroying my female identity one piece at a time, like a snake eating itself. One possibly fatal accident (I and my father risked being run over by his tractor) one day changed that extremely vain, narcissistic perspective, and I started questioning my story and my transgenderedness not as a given as I used to do. I read the story of a detransitioner (now thankfully happy) and saw the extremely sad story of a FtM who clearly did NOT have to transition...and then it hit me. I wasn't TG, I was just a confused, troubled, vain girl who chased a stupid and possibly fatal fantasy. And as I realized that, my body dysphoria vanished and I understood how much pain I had caused to myself and my family.
I'm really glad I realized it before the meeting with my therapist, otherwise I might have had the T shots. I always get cold sweats when I rethink about it. And as I was indeed a lurker here for a long time, there's a person in particular who I'd like to warn about transitioning: Elijah, I don't know you, nor do you know me, but from what I've read of you, of your doubts about your identity...seriously THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! Some parts of your story sound eerily similar to mine. To everyone else, I beg you to consider your identity enough before jumping to irreparable conclusions. I was 99,9% sure of my transness, but mine wasn't a birth defect...it was a psychological complex.
Good luck to all of you, and thanks for reading
I read all that and really, it's too bad that it happened to you. I don't doubt my own male identity but I wish you luck with the rest of your life.
Also, anyone else, this is a great thing to consider if, for some reason, you haven't already. Transitioning while not actually being TS would make you a TS. . . And well, being TS kind of sucks.
Wow!
Thank you very much for your report. It is very very useful and important to read stories of detransitioners or people who stopped before it got too late, and there's just not enough reports on that. This thread should be pinned as "important", and I'd like to read other warnings. It is amazing how much what was the case with you mimicked transsexuality. And you're right, in our community, we often tend to push people towards transition and to not listen to their own doubts.
I hope you are okay now and wish you the best for the future. You had luck to get get away from it without testo shots.
Yes, the COGIATI website is very weird, I read it and was like - WTF?
Did you contact Elijah by PM? I don't know if he will read your posting otherwise.
Thanks for your replies, both of you. I don't know how to send a PM, though-I'm new to writing in this forum. Anyway, my life's a lot better now that the "gender fog" I had for so many years has vanished. I wish my story could help confused people, at least.
I've just written a PM to Elijah with a link to this thread.
May I ask what you're up to now? As in, are you completely and confidently assured of yourself, are you seeing a therapist, or have you figured everything out yourself? I find this interesting because I do go through my phases of doubts, but I think that's just my impatience talking ::). Also, how do you identify yourself in a sense? Not a label per se, but after coming out of your "gender fog" how do you see yourself now? Overall, an interesting and detailed account thanks for that.
I was seeing a therapist because of GID (or better put, what I thought was GID...) related depression, but after I figured my gender problems on my own I'm just hearing him on the phone lately because my depression's almost vanished. It's amazing how many wonderful things life can give, and how much happiness you can give to others, after you realize your problems were just nothing, just mental fog...others aren't as lucky as I am. As now, I see myself as a female with a definite tomboyish (and nerdy) streak: I present more or less in the same way as before (I never dressed too femmy anyway ;D ) and even enjoy crossdressing knowing it' s only a game... the difference is that now I know I'm female, and that makes all the difference in the world. Hope this clarifies your question.
Shrug.
A good reason why people need to think deeply about this. It is not a decision to make lightly.
It sounds like you are gender queer though. This is the problem with society and it's little boxes, we try to force ourselves into others because we don't quite fit the mold. Transexuals are no different. some of us buy into this whole idea of a true transexual which is really a load of bull->-bleeped-<- "If I was like this then I would do that, you don't have this therefore you are not a transexual" kind of deal. I still am surprised at how many trans people freak out because they are attracted to the same sex. The truth is we all need to find out own path. This applies to everyone, not just trans people.
Actually the reported satisfaction level in transitioners is very high, particularly those who get surgery. For the majority it is the right choice I don't doubt. The long road to get there tends to weed out those for whom it is the wrong choice. And for those that it is the wrong choice, I would suggest that if it was not this is would be something else. Some people are just lost creatures and it seems their fate to work themselves into a bad spot. I'm glad you got out of yours and hope you are happy.
Just don't make it your crusade to dissuade anyone else. Your experience is your own. We have enough confusions as it is to deal with, and none of us are professionals in this. Neither you nor I are qualified to tell people who they are. I guess the true moral of your story is everyone should take care to analyse themselves, question where they are, it is healthy.
I'm sorry that your experience was not so good. The majority of us go through periods of confusion with good reason. A good therapist will help you work out what is actually right for you, if there is any doubt they are not going to prescribe you hormones. Unfortunately they are not always good and that is a real shame. But I think the number of people that get it wrong is incredibly low compared to those that get it right once the decision is made to transition. some people are so determined to self destruct they will find a way regardless of what people say.
I am so glad my gender fog has gone too! The fog of war lol
Crystal clear answer :). Well I'm glad you sorted stuff out before diving right in. Were you masculine/tomboyish your entire life? And was the only big turning point for you your near-death experience? I can identify with a lot in your story though I don't want to wait for a near-death experience to realize I MIGHT be doing the wrong thing :o.
To Nicky: I don't want to deny the validity of transsexuality, my uncle (aunt?) is a very likely candidate (details are murky but he tried castration and wanted to be called the female version of his name when little?). I'm not genderqueer though, unless you use an extremely loose definition that a somewhat masculine (and 100% nerd) girl could fit. I don't want to alter my sexual characteristics anymore, I'm perfectly happy with them now that I figured out the root of my dysphoria (I have a happy trail most males would envy but I don't care. It's just there.). I think the biggest problem with transsexual treatment is the focus on surgery, which is irreversible and in some cases gives poor results and complications. I'm not on a crusade to conquer anything, I just wanted to share my story since it might help confused people like I was and "failure" stories are so uncommon yet important.
Meepit: I've never been a girly-girl, not an extreme tomboy either, but if I had to balance the two the tomboy side would definitely win. Most of the things I like are considered unisex, not that this has to do a lot with gender though. I'm also used, even more confortable actually, working in male-dominated spaces (like the physics department ;D). My near-death experience was fundamental, but it did not appear out of the blue, it was the end of a long descent into depression that I'm finally getting over; I questioned myself daily, but always brushed it off. From what you say, I'd wait and think...
Quote from: Nicky on September 10, 2010, 03:38:26 AM
Just don't make it your crusade to dissuade anyone else. Your experience is your own.
+1
yeah it's a bit too easy for a support site to go rawr rawr and chant "go all the way!", but the real message is everyone sees their gender differently, and what works (medical transition) for one person may not be the good for another.
and there's nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, I meant it in a loose sense, no offense.
I think in reality everyone is at least a little gender queer.
I love hunting and brick laying and fixing my car and playing dungeons and dragons, and computer games and science fiction and fantasy, and I am a lesbian. I'm a little gender queer myself. ;)
Yup, I think you are right, and a lot of us trans people are obsessed with surgery and there is a surprising amount of intolerance within the trans community towards those that decide they don't need surgery. We do it to ourselves unfortunately, that is one of the most tragic things I think. But of course a lot of us really really need it.
It is a really valuable story with a valuable lesson. Thank you for sharing it!
Flan: Yes, but since medical transition is a costly, mostly irreversible and socially dangerous (at least where I live) thing to go with, if you could spare it, especially when there's no need whatsoever (ie: my own case), as well as being potentially life-wrecking if you're not really TS (my case again), I would...If someone really wants to transition, their choice, although, as it is a life-changing one, they can't expect it not to be questioned by anyone.
And Nicki: thanks
I do agree with you on one rather obvious point.
We should examine our doubts, not brush them off.
We should introspect and be certain of why we want to do this.
And rushing in doesn't help anyone.
Well, I have done all these, over a number of years.
I've done everything "but" transition before making that step.
And what doubts I feel are ones tied to fear of losing my daughter, friends, or family or causing my husband to lose anything on account of being in a gay relationship.
Things like that.
And ofcourse the obvious "I don't want to be in pain" that ties into surgery fears.
Then I look in the mirror, see my chest, and I feel myself almost in tears, over how badly I feel the need to correct it, how wrong it feels.
I feel humiliated just to know they're there.
That's not because I dislike breasts, it's because they don't go "there".
I was raised in a home where all the children had the same rights and responsibilities, be they boys or girls. Where there was no pressure to play with girl-toys or boy-toys. Me and my sisters had a big set of metal straps and things, don't remember what they're called, but I'd build complicated, mechanized things, with my sisters, and no one found our boyish games odd. They didn't grow up to want a male body like me, even if our childhoods were quite similar.
We were all taught we could do whatever we wanted. If we wanted to be doctors, we could. If we wanted to be lawyers, we could. None of the whole men's-jobs or women's jobs. My brother was encouraged to take cooking classes as a part of his school cause he liked to cook. He frequently bakes and such. My sister was encouraged to take business classes, cause she had interest in such.
Heck, more I examine my life, I have a greater reason to think of men as weak than the alternative.
A good gender therapist is a must. They don't hand out hormone letters like candy, nor do they just smile and nod at your own self-diagnosis. I was actually hoping my therapists (yes, plural) would say I wasn't trans, as yes, transition is no easy task.
On the flip side, now fully transitioned, I feel like myself for the first time in my life, my social anxiety is gone, as is the body dysphoria. As I sat in a jonny gown at my doctor's office yesterday, for the first time I didn't feel vulnerable and exposed. And it was a great feeling, one that confirmed that transition was the right choice for me.
Nobody on this site pushes others to transition. In fact, most of us tell people to take their time making that intensely personal decision, to be sure it is right for them.
Thank you for sharing your experience, as it may help others.
Jay
Thank you for sharing your story. This was honestly the first detranstion story I have read. I identify as male, but still I find myself questioning myself as I have a little girl of my own. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Bluetraveler, thank you for sharing your experiences. I agree that it is vitally important that people be very sure before they take the steps to transition, with regards to the irreversible steps. I think there are many cases where someone merely feels caged by societies definitions of "man" and "woman"; but of course, the social concept of 'gender' is a construct, and when we don't fit into those strictly defined categories it makes us wonder about our own identities.
I know that for me it took considerable therapy for me to even ADMIT to being trans, because I had denied and repressed it for so many years. Being able to transition has made me finally connect with my body and want to live for the first time since I was 14 years old. Being in the wrong body was unending misery. That is why I think it is important for people to be SURE. Knowing how awful it is to be caged that way, I cannot imagine how terrible it would be for someone to inadvertently trap themselves.
just wanted to add that a good gender therapist would have brought these things to the surface and would not have put you on T without a revision of your mental constructions of "male" and "female".....thus i think it's not a bad idea for people to read your story, but the big "warning" you're giving about people sliding into physical changes and live-threatening dangers seems a little big. i think that's what therapists are there for....help us find our OWN way through our personal jungle
You are very right. I think alot of people rush into transition. Some people don't even live as there preffered gender before starting out on hormones. Some may live as there preffered gender for only 2 years and then rush into surgery and hormones.
I've been living as male for 7 1/2 years and I'm hopefully going to begin hormones next week. I think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery. When I mean living full time I dont mean that you use the mens bathroom cause not everyone passes.
But if you are dressing in frilly little dresses then maybe you should hold off on hormones and definitley surgery.
QuoteI think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery.
a ten year wait sure separates the men from the boys ::) i have known i was ftm since i was five years old, and many people feel the same way. a lot of people just didn't have the guts/financial means to start therapy but they certainly didn't wake up one morning and decide to see a gender therapist for TS. i think WHEN someone is found out to be TS beyond resonable doubt, they should not be forced to spend all the younger years of their lives in desolation.
Quote from: Kvall on September 10, 2010, 12:49:12 PM
I think it is rather rude of you to call out someone in particular and tell them they need to think harder about whether to transition.
word. i didn't want to believe my eyes when i read that. plus i REALLY hate how elijah gets to take the s..t from all sorts of people just because his face is on youtube.
Wow.. I definitely don't find it very appropriate to throw out Elijah's name in your original post. I can appreciate you taking your time to write a post urging people to really think about their transition and who they are, but using another guys name from here is not cool. Even if your trying to help him, you can msg him on here, youtube, facebook, something private.. but out like this to everyone? not right.
Quote from: Kvall on September 10, 2010, 12:49:12 PM
I think it is rather rude of you to call out someone in particular and tell them they need to think harder about whether to transition. Just because you perceive similarities in their story does not mean you know what is right for them. Having doubts does not mean that someone isn't trans.
I think you're a shining example of how people tend to self-select out of hormones and surgery when it isn't right for them, thus contributing to the very low regret rate for transitioners. I'm sorry that you had to deal with confusion and self-caused dysphoria, and I do think it is important to hear from people who de-transitioned (even if just socially each way), but I think we all could really do without the condescension and judgments being made.
Your story can stand for itself in helping people make the decision whether to transition. You don't need to add a bunch of warnings or encourage people not to transition. It just makes your post sound ridiculous and like you don't understand that this is real for most of us. Oh, you'll allow that it might be a real condition, huh? I'm so glad to have your potential approval.
I've never seen someone "push" transition here, we just fully support it when people do make the choice to do so--or not to do so. Why? Because it isn't our choice to make, it's theirs.
wow i guess i posted my comment a little late, but i totally agree with you man. idk why everyone else was so easy going about it
I think your post may or may not help people, we need to think carefully about what exactly we post or how we word things. It can be helpful in letting people know that they dont HAVE to be defined as something, and that just because they might have ts tendencies, doesnt necessarily make them ts (going along with the good gender therapist comments) but it can also just cause more confusion to some, added confusion thats not needed. So I'm pretty indifferent about your post.
I will agree though that Elijah's name shouldn't have been used publicly, whatever he posts is not for others to judge when it comes to the life decisions he makes.
It is good to hear a story from someone who changed their mind about transitioning. Based on my limited experience, it seems that kind of story doesn't get shared as much as it should. So thank you.
I've had a different experience with this site, though (can't speak for other TG sites - I've only posted here). When I started posting here, I was about 90% sure I wanted to transition. After more reading and thinking, I realized I wasn't so sure. When I posted about being undecided, people were supportive and understanding. The main message I got was, "Take your time to figure this out, and definitely don't do anything you might regret later."
I'm really glad that I got this kind of message, and not the pressure to transition that I've heard people sometimes encounter. I've known I was TG / genderqueer by some definition for a long time, probably since I was about 4 years old. But I've been really reluctant to do anything about it. Over the past 5 years, I've started talking to people more openly about it. About a year ago, I decided it was time to seek therapy and educate myself by talking to people in the TS / TG community. Unfortunately, I'm temporarily living in a rural area where it's hard to find other trans people, and I can't afford therapy, so all I can do is go online. Really, what I'm learning here is just driving home the point that transition is completely life-altering and that it's a good idea to be cautious and think carefully about any doubts you have. I wouldn't want to transition without being confident that it was the right choice for me. At the same time, I've reached the point where I have no choice but to seriously consider it. My gender identity issues have been interfering with my life too much for it to be realistic to ignore them. But it's important to remember that the internet is not a substitute for therapy, and I think you're supposed to be in therapy for at least a year before starting T (?). I think this is so that people can sort through everything and be 100% sure they want to transition before doing so. In most cases, it's probably better to have to wait too long than to rush in. If people rushed in, many would later change their minds.
Also, I agree with Nicky about the categories. One reason I'm really glad to have found this site and other online resources is that I've learned that it's not just a simple matter of being either FTM TS or not TG at all - it's more a matter of being true to yourself first and finding the label that's the best fit later.
Quote from: emil on September 10, 2010, 12:47:40 PM
a ten year wait sure separates the men from the boys ::) i have known i was ftm since i was five years old, and many people feel the same way. a lot of people just didn't have the guts/financial means to start therapy but they certainly didn't wake up one morning and decide to see a gender therapist for TS. i think WHEN someone is found out to be TS beyond resonable doubt, they should not be forced to spend all the younger years of their lives in desolation.
Agreed, this why we are leaning more and more towards informed consent. Gender therapists are there for those with doubts, but those
without should not be made to wait obscene amounts of time for the right hormones. For many, their life truly begins after medical transition. Waiting 5 years would not only put their transition on hold but their love-life, work, etc. as well.
We do need to know about negative transitions. It is a fact of life and the fact that some have a bad experiance or just plane screwed up should not be swept under the rug so bravo and thankjyou.
However......WTF are you doing calling out a man by name for a potential bad transition on a public forum?
That was the height of poor taste and rude.
It is not for you to say if someone else should or should not transition. Let others succed or fail on their own merits.
I think it's good for us to read de transition storys. It's a good warning not to pursue medical transition unless we are sure.
I'm not long over 1 yr RLE and I should be starting T soon, if I was unsure I would hold off and wait another year or so but I know transition is right for me.
I agree with the idea of not pursuing medical transition until you are sure. I don't know if there should be a specific standard of how long one should have to live full time though because everyone is different. The period of time for therapy though should perhaps be lengthened from the standard of 3 months (at least it's 3 months where I live) to something more like 6 months. In general 3 months is a very short time to see a therapist for anything and even consider yourselves to know one another well.
Maybe some kind of exception like people who have already been living full time or have been out for so long could get the shorter time frame but I've met some people who haven't even come out yet until a couple of weeks before they were going to get their hormone letter. I mean when it comes down to it if you haven't even come out there are other issues, like family and friends, the reality of dealing with how people will perceive you and treat you is a huge part of transitioning. You have to have outlets for support besides just your therapist and suddenly coming out and diving in all at once is a big thing to deal with, not just for the person transitioning, but for the other people in their lives who haven't even had a chance to process what is happening to their loved one.
I know one guy in particular in real life that I've known for about 7 years now. He came out about 5 years ago, not very publicly at all, I was his ONLY trans friend and I didn't even have a clue! I actually found out he was trans from a mutual friend because he told them I had offended him by using female pronouns when he had not even told me he identified as trans or wanted to go through HRT and SRS. Honestly I found it more offensive that he felt the need to tell other's I was disrespecting him when he had not even taken the time to let me know in any way how he felt or identified than he probably thought it was for me to call him by female pronouns (and I say this of course with the experience of having dealt with people using female pronouns for me).
He ended up starting hormone within about 4 months of coming out, keep in mind he is someone who had never even spoken of being trans until this time period. He'd never said anything at all about feeling male or not feeling right in his female body, etc. I mean absolutely zero signs he was trans and not just a semi-butch lesbian. After a few months he backed off of hormones and then started going by female pronouns again. A year later I found out he'd turned around a few months after that and asked to be called he and started hormones once again. Once again he stopped taking them and then began telling people to only refer to him as female in public or online, attempting to hide his trans identity except for in private safe spaces (understandble, but odd for someone trying to "transition" physically imo). At this point I have no idea if he is on hormones, we don't talk anymore since I apparently chose to "disrespect" his identity all those years back. I don't even know if he is still going by male pronouns or not.
He is an example of someone who needed more time, even if transitioning has turned out to be the path he followed and is the correct path for him at the beginning he was not ready and was not prepared to deal with the reality of what he was doing.
He has seriously taken this whole thing so far with the disrespect that he has publicly called me female, made fun of me for choosing to wait so long to begin hormones (obviously not considering that I came out when I was 15 and had no choice or say in the matter due to legally being a minor), told other people I was ignorant because I told our mutual friend that he may want to consider waiting longer and thinking about it more (apparently I'm ignorant despite the fact that he went back and forth so many times).... it's been ridiculous. He even told my fiancee not to date me when we first got together because I'm a horrible person who doesn't respect trans people and I'm a self hater. He told people I would be emotionally abusive to her and would not accept her for who she was.
Uhm... long story short some people are worthless jerks. And other people are just decent guys/girls who need to think things through and perhaps be pushed to think more by the people who are supposed to be screening them before starting HRT or making SRS plans. That was only long because after I started thinking about it the whole issue kind of pissed me off all over again lol.
Quote from: mcalistershaun
But if you are dressing in frilly little dresses then maybe you should hold off on hormones and definitley surgery.
/quote]
well I think the 4/5 years is a little long but I go along with you on the dressing and say that men who dress male should hold off the E and surgery.
I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful. I didn't know how to use PMs on this forum. But I've avoided seeking help so often, not just on TG related matters, and letting things skip by, for fear of reactions...I don't want to do this anymore. Each person's decision is their own in the end. I can't and won't oblige anyone to do or not do anything. But as I stand here, from what I see with my limited knowledge, I can't help but worry. Sorry again for my rude act before.
I'm glad you shared your story. I think detransition stories are quite intriguing. However, I agree with everybody else that you shouldn't have name dropped Elijah like that. It was pretty rude of you.
I've doubted my identity before, of course - as male and female. However, that was more of a "why transition if I'm too girly to begin with" doubt. I didn't see why I couldn't be happy as a female even though I am feminine. When I was younger, I played with Barbies and had all girl friends until I was in 3rd grade and then I had almost exclusively male friends.
Hell, as a matter of fact, if I didn't hate wearing make up, dresses, or skirts, I could be a drag queen.
I don't see myself as shallow - though I don't know what your definition of shallow is.
I was going to type more but got distracted and forgot what I was going to type.
Quote from: lilacwoman on September 10, 2010, 02:06:14 PM
But if you are dressing in frilly little dresses then maybe you should hold off on hormones and definitley surgery.
Right, because "real men" can't wear dresses. ::) I know that once I'm on hormones I'll (most likely) feel more comfortable to wear the frilly stuff.
Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 02:21:43 PM
I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful. I didn't know how to use PMs on this forum. But I've avoided seeking help so often, not just on TG related matters, and letting things skip by, for fear of reactions...I don't want to do this anymore. Each person's decision is their own in the end. I can't and won't oblige anyone to do or not do anything. But as I stand here, from what I see with my limited knowledge, I can't help but worry. Sorry again for my rude act before.
Let's get one thing straight here. It is
not your place to tell Elijah either publicly
or by PM that you have doubts about his transition.
Don't you
dare pile
your crap on
him!
Transition, don't transition, have a foot in both camps if you choose but keep
your unqualified opinion about another guy on here to your damn self.
Guys who really are trans face enough hardships without someone showing up playing your game.
Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 10, 2010, 12:31:26 PMI think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery.
I disagree.
That's just excessive.
I do not believe that there should be a "real life experience" requirement for hormone therapy simply because most people don't pass, and it's bloody humiliating to be in that position.
I do however think that there should be a number of therapy sessions with a set aim, instead of an "x number of weeks/months" in therapy requirement to access hormones requirement, and a 1 year RLE (minimum) before surgery.
Bluetraveler, i am sure you meant well and only had the best interests of everyone at heart and i totally agree that for some, transitioning is not the answer they are looking for. However most of us have enough of a brain to work out for ourselves if we are going thro a phase etc etc. I am really sorry if this next comment offends you but reading some of your first post made me think of a certain blogger that we have all had run ins with lately. Reading her posts was bad enough reading some of those comments on a supportive sight went beyond even her
Quote from: Miniar on September 10, 2010, 03:01:19 PM
I disagree.
That's just excessive.
I do not believe that there should be a "real life experience" requirement for hormone therapy simply because most people don't pass, and it's bloody humiliating to be in that position.
I do however think that there should be a number of therapy sessions with a set aim, instead of an "x number of weeks/months" in therapy requirement to access hormones requirement, and a 1 year RLE (minimum) before surgery.
I agree with you.
I knew all my life I identified as male, but didn't know it had a name or a cure. I self-diagnosed in Feb 08, started seeing therapists in April 08 (and confirmed!), was on T in July 08, had hysto and top surgery in 8/08 and 12/08, respectively. After 47 years it couldn't happen soon enough. I jumped off the cliff and haven't looked back.
Other people like the slower, scenic route. For me, living for years in that in-between state without hormones would have driven me insane. Bad enough living as F, but to live in that limbo land would have been far worse for me.
Everyone is different.
Jay
Jay i feel like you. I am almost 40 years old...just self diagnosed a month ago...starting therapy this month. I can't wait to get it over and done with...to have to prolong it would be horrible.
I too have always known...but didn't really think there was a way to change it. I had already had consultations for breast reduction surgery but kept saying I was gender queer but the reality was I just didn't feel like I could do it this late in life. After investigating and talking with my spouse....I decided I can't continue living as a female. The disphoria is far to much and just admitting and binding has brought me out of my depression better than any medication has done for years.
And how many of us older ones (Im 38) wish we could turn the clock back and have some of the life thats been denied to us? I wouldnt change a lot of things like my son etc but the chance to be me when i was 17 would have been so wonderful. Now although i ve started seeing a psychiatrist i face anything up to a two yea RLE before hormones will be given. I"m 38 for petes sake, every year added on is another year i slowly die
Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 10, 2010, 12:31:26 PMI think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery. When I mean living full time I dont mean that you use the mens bathroom cause not everyone passes.
What you say makes not much sense if a person does mostly not PASS before hormones no matter what they try, but will pass once on hormones cause of their physical make-up. Cause you cannot experience anything other then than living as a transgendered person, which is much different from living as a person of your target sex. Many of your friends etc. will see or experience it as a constant role-play. Plus if the biggest problem with your birth sex is the way your body is, not the social side of it, then this won't help you at all.
And if your biggest problem is the social side, rather consider moving to a cool country where men and women are treated almost equal than transition.
Just a question on RLE that has been circling my brain for a while. Does it mean that the life ive lived up til now isnt real life cos it sure felt like it at times. Okay- it wasnt documented as living as a male but thats what ive been doing totally for the last twenty years. So what difference will another 2 years make.
I found your story very interesting, but like everyone has said, you were quite forceful on putting a template of your problems onto everyone else here, particularly Elijah.
I actually understand the crushing doubts thing. I felt the same when I tried to live as a lesbian. That feeling, always at night of knowing what you are doing is not who you actually are. It is a really strong feeling and if anybody feels like that regarding transition then no, it probably isn't for them. That said though, everyone has a few doubts. For example I wonder what it will be like having to shave, sometimes I am a bit afraid of that, because it is not something I have had to think much about before. But when I think of that I don't have that dark feeling of denying myself. And I doubt many people who will go as far as transition do. Besides, there's no reason why being a transitioned male would stop you doing 'feminine' things....this isn't the middle ages.
Like others have said, it is possible to be a mix of genders and that may or may not involve transitioning. Everybody's experience is entirely different and just because someone may have feelings that coincided with yours doesn't mean that they will feel/deal with those feelings the same way.
I guess 5 yrs is a bit long. I always compare myself to others which I need to work on. It's just that I didn't really come out as trans I just kinda developed into a male. When I was younger 5-6 I didn't see that I was male or female I was me. When I entered 5th grade I started caring what I looked and acted like, I somewhat cared how others perceived me. I shaved my head and bought boy school clothes. As soon as I shaved my head people refered to me as he, except family.
Everyone is different. Some parent prohibit there kids from dressing and acting in the manner they like. My mom doesn't support me but she could care less what I do.
About the dress thing. I didnt mean that men can't wear dresses. I think very realisticlly. If I saw a cis male in a dress id question his sexuality to. Biologically I am female and if went out in female clothing then i would question my transition. For me to go out as female I would be willing and intentionaly be representing as female. If I'm still okay with representing as female then I feel that I need to question my identity. I wouldn't transition If a part of me still wanted to represent as female.
mcalistershaun: You're you and I'm me. I'm a straight trans guy that's cool with cross dressing for sh-ts and gigs. Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same. Gender expression and sexual orientation also not the same. My clothing isn't everything about me just in the same that it isn't for anybody else.
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt.
We know Dirt lurks on this site and steals photos and pulls stunts that would be just this hateful.
Call me skeptical.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 10, 2010, 06:59:27 PM
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt.
That did cross my mind. I hope it's not because I really do think we need to hear de-transition stories to see why they did what they did and we should see them as a warning not to rush into transition.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 10, 2010, 06:59:27 PM
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt.
crossed my mind 2
Just a thought, but it may be a good idea to keep this thread hidden from the likes of "Dirt", etc.
(I notice that someone posted about Dirt as I was typing this, haha)
Yeah, I also thought it might be that blogger, especially when I first read the title. The writing style is different. But you never know.
Personally, I am very uncomfortable with the use of the phrase "potential transsexuals". The idea that being transsexual is a choice (suggested by the word "potential") does not sit well with me.
Thank you for your story, but please be careful with your word choice.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 10, 2010, 06:59:27 PM
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt.
I admit, that was my first thought. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt. There aren't that many stories of detransition and I think it's important to see those as well.
Quote from: Nygeel on September 10, 2010, 06:40:20 PM
I'm a straight trans guy that's cool with cross dressing for sh-ts and gigs. Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same.
Thanks for posting this. The fact that I do still like female clothes has caused me a lot of confusion (probably more than anything else). It's made me question if I'm really a guy. But I don't want to be a woman in female clothes, I want to be a dude wearing them. I'd like to be able to wear them as a dude without people reacting badly but not going to happen where I live. I don't want to be seen as female, but I do like the bright colors, frills, sparkles, etc.; women definitely have more freedom in the area of clothing. If it was more socially acceptable for guys to like that kind of thing, I'd have less doubts about transition.
*just wanted to add, I hope that made sense, it's been a long day and I'm not feeling real coherant at the moment.
That blogger was my first thought too, especially with the use of terminology like "patriarchal" etc. It would not surprise me at all, especially since this poster also mentioned "lurking" on this site for quite some time. If it is "her", it is possible she has simply changed tactics and is trying to come from the perspective of being helpful, instead of demonizing us all as being sick twisted perverts and misogynists.
I do believe that it is important for anyone even considering transition to really give it a lot of thought, time, and soul-searching. For me, the agony of years I spent as a reclusive, depressed, suicidal, self-hater was too much. Enough was enough, and I finally took a really hard look at myself because I just got so sick and tired of being miserable and not really knowing why.
~April~
I've always known I was different since i was really young, but i was about 13 when i finally figured out my identity. I've had doubts because i'm not really the most masculine guy haha i love doing those dressup games, i'm not gonna lie :laugh: i also love to sing and i love cute and fluffy things, so i thought "well i obviously cant be trans, i like some girl stuff" but, i know now that you dont have to be super masculine to be trans. I once was confused while i had identified as trans, i had no idea what i was. was a man or a masculine girl? The reason for doubting myself was because i just couldnt accept who i was, i was terrified of how people would react to me. At 16 i realized who i was and accepted myself. now i am living as male, and starting hormones soon :) I think all trans people go through doubting periods and some realize that transitioning is just not right for them but, i am glad you stopped before it was too late and found out who you are. it takes courage to listen to your feelings and actaully follow them. I cant imagine not living as male, but thats just me :P good luck with everything and thanks for sharing your story it was a great read :)
-Neo
Wow...I am not this Dirt blogger folks, my IP is from another continent. And as Nathan mentioned, I don't write like her at all (I've seen her blog since you mentioned her). I may be a lurker but I am no troll. And patriarchal as a word isn't used just by lesbian separatists, you know: I was referring to a culture, from the country I come from (may it suffice to say it's european?), wherein males are considered superior and so are stereotipically masculine qualities.
And thanks, UnusualSuspect.
Edit: ah, I used the term "potential transsexual" to mean a possibly transgendered person who might want to transition. I was under the impression transgender is the term for non-binaries and those before surgery and hormones, while transsexuals went through that.
I've been reading through the stuff that has been posted since I last posted on this topic. I'm relatively new to this website. Can somebody tell me who Dirt is?
After this, I won't speak any further of that person as she doesn't deserve any more attention than she has already gotten for herself.
Basically she is a trans-hating extreme separatist butch lesbian feminist who is so full of misandry that she not only hates the penis itself, but anyone who wants one, has ever touched one, or wants to touch one. She uses the majority of her posts to spread her anti-trans sentiments, trying apparently to amass an army of trans-haters with abstracted truths and misinformation in an attempt to strip us of our human rights and freedoms.
You can probably tell I really like her.
A lot.
I think dismissing detransition stories by saying things like 'oh it could be Dirt' is the same attitude that Dirt talks about.. the way many of us want to brush off these types of stories. Why is it so unbelievable to us that transition isn't right for some? This isn't an attack so don't take it that way, but just food for thought.
Anyway thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad you figured things out. People need to know that transition isn't a definite cure and that it is possible to make a mistake. I personally believe though that most people who transition end up much happier but everyone has a different story. No one should have to feel swayed in either direction.
Quote from: Chamillion on September 10, 2010, 08:17:58 PM
I think dismissing detransition stories by saying things like 'oh it could be Dirt' is the same attitude that Dirt talks about.. the way many of us want to brush off these types of stories. Why is it so unbelievable to us that transition isn't right for some? This isn't an attack so don't take it that way, but just food for thought.
Anyway thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad you figured things out. People need to know that transition isn't a definite cure and that it is possible to make a mistake. I personally believe though that most people who transition end up much happier but everyone has a different story. No one should have to feel swayed in either direction.
None of us were trying to brush off the story. We have all pretty much said that this brings up the serious issue of being completely sure that transition is right for us before going and doing anything that could potentially permanently change, or ruin, our lives. Finding the right therapist, and having a good support system are some key elements to finding things out. A good therapist won't leave you on your own to figure things out, it's their JOB to help you navigate the minefields of your own consciousness and arrive at what the truth is, for you, no matter what that truth may be. To transition or not is and should be a very deadly serious undertaking, as it can have deadly serious consequences if not done properly and for the right reasons.
Quote from: AprilDawn on September 10, 2010, 08:24:02 PM
None of us were trying to brush off the story. We have all pretty much said that this brings up the serious issue of being completely sure that transition is right for us before going and doing anything that could potentially permanently change, or ruin, our lives. Finding the right therapist, and having a good support system are some key elements to finding things out. A good therapist won't leave you on your own to figure things out, it's their JOB to help you navigate the minefields of your own consciousness and arrive at what the truth is, for you, no matter what that truth may be. To transition or not is and should be a very deadly serious undertaking, as it can have deadly serious consequences if not done properly and for the right reasons.
No worries, I am in total agreement w/ everything you just said. It was just something that stuck out to me.
No problem :) Like I said, it's always good to hear both sides! :)
Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 07:56:35 PM
Edit: ah, I used the term "potential transsexual" to mean a possibly transgendered person who might want to transition. I was under the impression transgender is the term for non-binaries and those before surgery and hormones, while transsexuals went through that.
No disrespect intended, and thanks for the clarification. Terminology amongst the trans community can get murky.
Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
Meepit: I've never been a girly-girl, not an extreme tomboy either, but if I had to balance the two the tomboy side would definitely win. Most of the things I like are considered unisex, not that this has to do a lot with gender though. I'm also used, even more confortable actually, working in male-dominated spaces (like the physics department ;D). My near-death experience was fundamental, but it did not appear out of the blue, it was the end of a long descent into depression that I'm finally getting over; I questioned myself daily, but always brushed it off. From what you say, I'd wait and think...
I HAVE thought, for YEARS :o. Though your post brought up my doubts/impatience about transitioning, I actually had a reaffirmation of it being the right decision today (a common occurrence). It wasn't so much as a "questioning" thing, I was just remarking about how similar our paths in the past have been thus far yet our stories might branch off fairly soon. I had Polly Pockets too ;) but probably only because they used to be like Legos and were a gift not a chosen toy, I also had a huge crush on a guy back in 5th grade and we moved apart as well only for me to find out a few years later that I'm actually straight ::) I guess I was just pushed into the societal role of "girls like boys only" and I was only 11, but puberty was definitely a kick in the other direction. I've heard many stories of young boys dabbling with other boys as children only to grow up straight as a board so I don't think it's that unusual. What else did we have in common....well I've had a few near-death experiences as well (got hit by a car whilst on a bike), but no epiphany really. I've always been extremely sure of being male just lately things have been going downhill so I suppose every aspect of my life came under scrutiny as a result.
All in all, I don't think I said enough in my previous post to be a "potenial detransitioner" and the remark that you made that said I should "wait and think" I thought was a tad uncalled for as I hadn't provided enough information for ANYONE to determine what steps I should take next. I hope this clear things up though :) no hard feelings from me. I was just a bit insulted to have someone who doesn't know me to start assuming I hadn't done my research (possibly similar to how some of the previous posters may feel).
That's completely crossing the line to mention someones name and how you think they aren't trans. I personally cannot believe that someone would be so rude and insulting. Whatever if this post gets me banned but that is complete and outright garbage. I advise you to edit your post
Quote from: sneakersjay on September 10, 2010, 07:57:44 AMI was actually hoping my therapists (yes, plural) would say I wasn't trans, as yes, transition is no easy task.
For a little while, I was hoping that my therapist would be able to "cure" me. But, seriously, forty years of being male in my head...that's hard to argue against. I realized that I wanted to be cured because I wanted to be comfortable, safe, normal--not because I was female.
Bluetraveler, I'm glad you found yourself, but I have mixed feelings about your original post. Few of us take this lightly, particularly those of us who have struggled with it for decades. I have heard that in some groups of young people, transition or partial transition is trendy. I don't know how true this is, but it points out the importance of a good gender therapist, particularly for young folks.
I frequently hear about the horror of discovering that transition was a mistake, but I don't think I've heard anyone say that some people have to transition to find out that they shouldn't have transitioned. I believe that this is true of a select few. We tend to look at detransition as a bad thing, but maybe for a few folks, transition and then detransition is the only way to find out.
It's something to think about, anyway.
Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 02:21:43 PM
I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful.
You do know that you can edit your posts and get rid of the section that so many are complaining about?
Yeah ... if you had been lurking all this time and you didn't pick up on how people could take things the wrong way, then you probably haven't been paying too close attention, just sayin'. "A warning to all potential transsexuals" on a forum FOR trans people is a bit inflammatory if I do say so myself. You might have the best intentions and I do feel you actually are not transsexual/transgendered, but simply a "tom boy" as you put it.
I thought I was a tom boy too for many years, although at the age of three I was asking my parents why I couldn't pee out of my "thing". That was before anyone had explained the differences between boys and girls to me. I just knew there was something "wrong" from probably the word go. The only differences between being a tom boy and being trans, to me, is that I never identified as female. Not once in my life did I ever feel like a girl or a woman. People treating me as one early in life confused the hell out of me - not because I hadn't become aware of physical differences but because I just could not relate at all. My brain didn't function the same way or something. I approached problems differently. I said things that made other females I knew just stop and stare at me. I just acted differently. Up until about the age of 13 everyone outside of my family took me as 100% male and treated me as such. My parents knew about my "issues" (I had already been to therapy to get the "GID" diagnosis back then) and allowed me to "be myself" for the most part. I had no idea there was such a thing as transition. All I knew, is that I wasn't female, no matter how my body looked. It never had anything to do with some sort of metal issue about females being "inferior" (which imo is just a dumb notion anyway).
I agree with everyone else that calling out someone in particular was in bad taste because no matter what your intention was it IS going to look like you're trying to change that person's mind. But what really got to me in your story was this: "if you say and are convinced you are gender x then you ARE gender x, ignore all those who say otherwise or might question you" followed by, "only stepping outside of this dangerous narcissistic point of view made me realize that what I had come to label as my '->-bleeped-<-' was nothing more than the sum of my own internalized 'patriarchial' belief that female=inferior ... "
So yes, I took that to heart that you're actually saying that people like me have a dangerous, narcissistic view. I tell people all the time that the gender they are in their mind is what matters because I believe that. And that is an opinionated and personal statement but it's not exactly the same as calling someone narcissistic. And also, just so you know, I'm not in transition, I don't plan to be in transition or have surgery or take more HRT (had a short dabble in that to decide it wasn't for me - but it's not for me to decide for anyone else), but you know what? I'm still a dude. Through all the bull->-bleeped-<- I've been through in my life, I'm still me, and that me is male. On a daily basis I basically give whole cross sections of society the middle finger. It works for me. I've found a balance I can live with. It sounds like you also found whatever balance you can live with so good for you.
After being on this board for (I think) just over a month now I can tell the majority of people are taking their choices very seriously ... weighing options ... and yes, some are having doubts. But everyone at the end of the day needs to make their own path in life. By shouting, "THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!" I don't think you're going to do anything but rub people the wrong way. However, by simply coming on and telling your personal story about how you discovered you were not actually trans I think can be an insightful thing that most people don't ever get to see. And then we all could have walked away by just knowing your story, not getting whipped up or offended by some of the other things you've said.
Thank you so much for posting this story of yours. It's great that you did it as it must have taken strength. You are right in that not a lot of people consider such things, they don't actually sit down and think about what they want. And the danger with a lot of FTMs is our need to rid ourselves of everything feminine and only do manly-type stuff. I admit, I did a similar thing. I attempted to soak up as much info as possible, hence my reason for not being on here in so long, but at the same time, I never denied who I was.
What we need to understand about ourselves is that it doesn't matter if we are transitioning, we are still who we always were. A little different yes, but it should be for the better. We shouldn't have to change our interests and likes and such just to be the man or woman we're working to become. In fact, we should embrace it more because transitioning is about becoming who you really are, who we want to be.
This is also why I will be seeing Dr. Warneke before I actually go any further. I've been having myself called Tom for over two months now and I've been wearing a chest binder, but that's all reversible. ^^
Thanks again. I say a hug is in order? *Hugs*
PS. You should try and become more involved and then you can see what some of us really mean. XP It's always different on the inside than what appears on the outside. It's all good. :)
Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 07:56:35 PM
: I was referring to a culture, from the country I come from (may it suffice to say it's european?), wherein males are considered superior
as a curious fellow european, may i ask which one?
Now that I have actually caught on to what's going on here, I will say that yes I still appreciate your story, but I don't appreciate you dumping this on Elijah. And women aren't inferrior to men in my opion, to me they are equals but that's just how I was brought up. I honestly want to say more to this right now but too dang tired and well I rather not say something I don't mean to say.
Hello from a fellow detransitioner!
I think our stories are important and while the Elijah thing was not necessary I cannot help thinking it isn't much different than the many people here who have said publicly or implied that "I'm not real" or "I'll just transition in the end anyway."
I hope you add to and benefit this community - its easiest to do when you share your own experiences with others and not try to show how others fit into your mold - let them decide that for themselves - it really is the best thing you can do for others.
That being said, glad to have you! If you ever need to talk to someone who's been down and is walking the same path, my PM is open.
Quote from: Arch on September 10, 2010, 11:59:37 PM
We tend to look at detransition as a bad thing, but maybe for a few folks, transition and then detransition is the only way to find out.
I think that's true and I think no one has been damaged by seeing the world from the other side. At least not if they did not make physical changes.
One particular sentence from an MtF crossdressing reality show fascinated me a lot:
"What, as a man, have you learned from being a woman?"
I spoke to my therapist about regrets once and she said she can't remember actually meeting a person who flat out regretted what they went through. She have experienced role reversals and even surgical reconstructions, but they always said they learned a lot from their transitions and came out as more clarified persons.
I know about a Norwegian TV feature, which I unfortunately haven't seen myself, where an MtFtM explains that only after his second surgery he attained balance and happiness.
There has been stories about MtFtQ's http://www.thescavenger.net/glbsgdq/my-journey-to-getting-a-sex-not-specified-document-86598.html (http://www.thescavenger.net/glbsgdq/my-journey-to-getting-a-sex-not-specified-document-86598.html) and even MtFtMtF's http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jul/31/health.socialcare (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jul/31/health.socialcare) too.
When that is said it is important to note that only about 1% of the people having SRS are going to regret it later acording to the most recent research.
Here's a question for those advocating long periods of RLE.. I've known I was a woman since the first time I dressed as one, 20+ years ago. However, due to having no idea at the time about the possibility of transition, I just jammed the idea "in the closet", jammed the door shut and refused to accept it. Now, 22 years later, with life experience, maturity and a whole lot of self examination I'm ready to accept the truth and seek therapy. For the last few years, I've dressed on the fem side of andro, and have not repressed my feminine nature. If my therapist and I agree that I am in fact trans, why should I have to wait for an extended period for HRT? The main reason that I've not dressed entirely feminine is that I simply would not pass.. I'm out to the friends and family that matter to me.. Why should I be forced to wait an extended period, or face the humiliation of being seen as a "man in a dress" just to satisfy the needs of those who are unsure and need their hands held?
Bluetraveler, as someone who is just starting their 'official' transition, I find your story both interesting and very uncool. It's not my place or yours to tell someone what to do. Having read the story, I feel you had a pile of other issues, not necessarily gender related, that you needed to sort out.
Well if you've been thinking about it for 20 yrs thats along time. I think that a 2-4 yr RLE was my belief on ppl my age under 18. when I think about things I tend to think about people at my age. At 30 yrs old you know what you want and take the risks to do so. I feel that a 16 year old kid that comes out trans and 3 months later starts hormones is bit soon. 3 months isnt a long time to suddenly decide to change your life and create irreversable effects. However if youve been living as male for 6yrs or so at the age of 16 I dont think its just a faze.
Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 11, 2010, 03:45:40 AM
Well if you've been thinking about it for 20 yrs thats along time. I think that a 2-4 yr RLE was my belief on ppl my age under 18. when I think about things I tend to think about people at my age. At 30 yrs old you know what you want and take the risks to do so. I feel that a 16 year old kid that comes out trans and 3 months later starts hormones is bit soon. 3 months isnt a long time to suddenly decide to change your life and create irreversable effects. However if youve been living as male for 6yrs or so at the age of 16 I dont think its just a faze.
I understand where you are coming from, but if I'd been able to start my transition at 13, I would have, no question. As evidenced in my case, there's a difference between knowing yourself and coming out. Besides which, the SOC's, which should be followed by any medical professional currently dealing with a trans patient, state that the minimum age is 18. Also, the SOC's require
at least 3 months of either therapy or RLE, not just 3 months.. If a therapist doesn't feel it's right after those 3 months they have the option of not making the referral.
Personally, I think that HRT should be available via Informed Consent. I can understand the requirement for therapy prior to GRS and some people might need it prior to HRT, but therapy shouldn't be a requirement for HRT..
Quote from: Fencesitter on September 10, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
And if your biggest problem is the social side, rather consider moving to a cool country where men and women are treated almost equal than transition.
I have to disagree with this pretty strongly as someone for whom the social side is as important as the physical side. Equal treatment doesn't erase social gender, nor does it alleviate my feeling that I'm on the wrong side of the divide.
Quote from: kelly_aus on September 11, 2010, 04:28:17 AM
Besides which, the SOC's, which should be followed by any medical professional currently dealing with a trans patient, state that the minimum age is 18.
Nope, 12 yrs for blockers, 16 yrs for hormones. 18 is only required for surgery.
Tippe
QuoteYou actually dare to equate your normal teenage soul searching and discomfort of the realities of puberty to ->-bleeped-<-.
You can't de-transition because you never transitioned in the first place.
I have to agree with you on this.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 10, 2010, 06:59:27 PM
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt.
I don't think so. Both writing style and intent are different, it's not filled with hate or despise but quite respectful to us, the spelling is better and the OP has a clear understanding of what transsexuality is and does not dismiss it as altogether inexistent. Also, the OP describes her experience and motivations as being hers and not everybody's. I think Dirt would lack the cleverness, stylistic writing skills and the necessary empathy to "pass" as someone entirely else in such a post, as this affords the skills of a genius and Dirt's usual writings show less "talent".
Quote from: RaeLikesTea on September 10, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Personally, I am very uncomfortable with the use of the phrase "potential transsexuals". The idea that being transsexual is a choice (suggested by the word "potential") does not sit well with me.
I don't see a problem there, "potential" can mean both people who are still considering whether they're trans and people who are still considering whether they'll transition or not.
The OPs detransition story was very valuable for me as it made me question myself harshly for a couple of days, trying to be completely honest to myself and to find out if there could be something like what she explained going on in my case. These days were difficult for me, and I came to the conclusion that no, but I think it is good to question yourself even if it causes some hassle for a couple of days. I'd love to hear from other detransition cases, as there may be other things mimicking transsexuality than those mentioned by the thread opener. I would also have loved to read such stories before starting T, but I could not find any at that time. So thanks again for posting your experience, Bluetraveler. I did not feel manipulated into feeling weird by your post, I just think it's important to question oneself from as many aspects as possible before it is too late, and I did not know that cases such as yours exist, referring to your motivation and how the "gender fog" got you.
Now about mentioning Elijah in the posting, I kind of thought ouch, not nice, and that a PM might have been better there, but judging this is none of my business (and I have no opinion about Elijah whatsoever anyway). So I just jumped in and informed him about the thread via PM so at least he knows what's going on here and can react. If it was me you had in mind instead of him, I'd be fine with getting a PM from you telling me about your worries, but very unnerved by an open mentioning of me.
Maybe moderators could go over this thread and throw out his name wherever it comes up, as it's been mentioned quite a couple of times yet? But that's not up to me to decide.I know of another transsexual forum where it is forbidden to question anyone anyhow about them being trans or that you worry they might be on the wrong path or even that something they wrote seems weird to you in this respect, even via PM. I can understand why they have this policy, but this can be dangerous at times. E. g. when a female-bodied user explains that the main reason why they want to transition is that they are a lot into gay sex, especially of the kind depicted in certain mangas, and want to live that themselves and want T but only physical changes to the point where they look androgynous like in the mangas, and they have already started to transition. And you have to bite your tongue when reading this and cannot contact the person and ask them privately if they're really sure what they're doing - not because you're mean but because you really worry about them... I cannot look into anybody's mind and say they're trans or not, and some people just suck at explaining things in postings, but think being allowed to PM the person if their postings seem really weird should be allowed as some testosterone effects are permanent.
General information: For PMs, click on "Members" above (between "Staff List" and "Log out", search for the member. You'll find an option to PM the person in his profile on the left.Quote from: kyril on September 11, 2010, 04:32:35 AM
I have to disagree with this pretty strongly as someone for whom the social side is as important as the physical side. Equal treatment doesn't erase social gender, nor does it alleviate my feeling that I'm on the wrong side of the divide.
You're right here, I haven't written down specifically enough what I meant, it was more about cases when it's the non-equal treatment which annoys you.
I'm sorry I can't answer all the replies this thread has gotten now, maybe I will be able to this evening, but just wanted to say that if a moderator could remove all mentions of Elijah's name from this thread, that would be welcome from me. I didn't edit the original post because too many replies already mentioned it.
Bluetraveler,
I just hit on the "report to moderator" button of your last posting and written that you have a request to them there, so they will get your request. (Yes, I know, normally these buttons are used to report abusive or wrongly posted postings, but they're also very handy for things like this.)
Just letting people know I locked the topic.
We are not here to accuse other people, or sling around personal attacks, we are not here to speculate on the identity of a poster in public.
If you think someone has done a bad post then hit the notify button. We will decide what is appropriate or not.
Thanks
Nicole