I'm not sure if biased is the perfect term but do any of you guys, when out in the world look at others through a gender lens ... meaning, do you ever wonder if the short guy in line in front of you is really trans ... or what the gender of someone that appears ambiguous is? I mean, I find myself doing it to an extent (and I know people look at me and wonder sometimes) but it's more just a part of all the other "noise" going on in my head at any given moment. Like I'll wonder all kinds of things about random strangers ... like sometimes I wonder what someone's job might be or if they have any cool hobbies. In the case of wondering if some dude is trans, I personally wonder just to feel like I'm not so "alone" - that hey, maybe that person is just like me! You know? I really don't think my extent of wondering about people's gender has the same bias that some other people. Some other people may secretly wonder so that they can treat that person badly. I dunno maybe I'm just over thinking it! lol
Nope, not alone at all. I've been wondering if this girl (I'll say that for now because she introduced herself with a feminine name hence maybe she'd like to be addressed as such ???) on my campus is an FTM or a lesbian or just a tomboy. When I first saw her, I absolutely identified her a guy without a second thought until she introduced herself in Lab as [insert 100% feminine name here]. It was one of those names that could be shortened or changed to be masculine (such as Alexandra->Alex and Samantha->Sam) but she introduced herself using the full feminine name. I dunno, maybe I'm just thinking "oh yay someone that might GET me" and over-thinking it :(. It'd be embarrassing to just flat out ask "trans?", but I'm so tempted to just float it out there to see what happens :o. I don't really examine shorter guys as trans because the population on my campus has quite a few short guys so they're quite common.
I do the same.
Sometimes I see a feminie looking guy and wonder if he's just trans.
I guess its normal for human beings to focus on gender, and hope there's someone out there like them so we don't feel so alone in all of this.
I do it constantly. I read everyone for signs that they may be trans. When in fact...the only time I find people is at gay bars, rarely in public. Still, I do it all the time. I analyze peole's bodies. Creepy? No. I just want to find others like me.
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on September 16, 2010, 11:39:01 PM
I do it constantly. I read everyone for signs that they may be trans. When in fact...the only time I find people is at gay bars, rarely in public. Still, I do it all the time. I analyze peole's bodies. Creepy? No. I just want to find others like me.
Yeah I think kind of the need to find others like yourself may be a big part of it. I've never personally known any other person that identified as trans. Plenty of people who were gay/bi but that's just not the same (no disrespect to gay/bi people of course). I recently got brave and did a post in the "just for us" thread about possibly meeting up with anyone in my area just to go grab a coffee or something and talk with someone else who understands what it's like. The only folks I've known have been online.
Yes, I do this, too.
I also have a tendency to opposite-gender people who aren't trans, mostly girls. For example, my buddy has two nieces, and I'm always wanting to call them nephews. I guess I do this because so many trans guys I've met are pre-transition or not "passing" yet, but I go out of my way to gender them correctly, even when they don't look or sound the part.
I usually catch the mistake before I actually say anything, but it's weird to be second-guessing myself like that and not be sure what to call someone who seems pretty clearly cisgender.
I used to look around like that, but as I got out more, spent longer on T, and the longer I'd been "socially stealth" - the less I did it.
Now I find I don't do it at all unless someone has some attribute that really stands out. It's gotta be something really unusual - guys being short don't trigger that.
I think the looking around has to do with the need to find others like yourself. It's just human.
I do that too. When I meet someone who has a little bit of ambiguity I do wonder if they're trans.
Quote from: Arch on September 17, 2010, 12:21:49 AM
Yes, I do this, too.
I also have a tendency to opposite-gender people who aren't trans, mostly girls. For example, my buddy has two nieces, and I'm always wanting to call them nephews. I guess I do this because so many trans guys I've met are pre-transition or not "passing" yet, but I go out of my way to gender them correctly, even when they don't look or sound the part.
I usually catch the mistake before I actually say anything, but it's weird to be second-guessing myself like that and not be sure what to call someone who seems pretty clearly cisgender.
LOL. nice =]
Nevar do.. hadn't thought of doing this.. lolz
I do the same thing all of the time. I think after seeing so many trans guys and gals though I often think bio guys and gals really are trans and we are all the bio people, if that makes sense.
I'm glad I'm not alone...
I also find myself doing this thing where I check out cisguys - like, brow ridge, pecs, crotch, facial expressions. I compare my maleness to theirs, try to figure out how to better pass, etc. It ends up looking really creepy, I'm afraid..
I totally see the world through trans-colored glasses.
Generally I don't pick people out and try to figure out if they are stealth trans. I'm more concerned for if they are secretly transgendered, presenting as their biological sex but identifying as the opposite. So I actually avoid using "he", "she", "her", "him" as much as possible when talking to people just in case they are trans and are uncomfortable being addressed as their biological sex.
Quote from: Yakshini on September 18, 2010, 02:19:20 AM
So I actually avoid using "he", "she", "her", "him" as much as possible when talking to people just in case they are trans and are uncomfortable being addressed as their biological sex.
I tend to do that too :) high-five to similarities! Although APPARENTLY it's grammatically incorrect to say "they, their, they're" in some of the ways I try to avoid personal pronouns. :-X A for effort?
Quote from: Meepit on September 16, 2010, 11:21:38 PM
Nope, not alone at all. I've been wondering if this girl (I'll say that for now because she introduced herself with a feminine name hence maybe she'd like to be addressed as such ???) on my campus is an FTM or a lesbian or just a tomboy. When I first saw her, I absolutely identified her a guy without a second thought until she introduced herself in Lab as [insert 100% feminine name here]. It was one of those names that could be shortened or changed to be masculine (such as Alexandra->Alex and Samantha->Sam) but she introduced herself using the full feminine name. I dunno, maybe I'm just thinking "oh yay someone that might GET me" and over-thinking it :(. It'd be embarrassing to just flat out ask "trans?", but I'm so tempted to just float it out there to see what happens :o. I don't really examine shorter guys as trans because the population on my campus has quite a few short guys so they're quite common.
I would highly recommend *not* asking. If you'd asked me that about 10 years ago, I'd have ripped you a new one and thought you were just trying to be nasty and harass me. There's only so many times you can take being told you don't count as a girl if you happen to be wanting to identify as such at the time, and I'd say using a distinctly feminine name when you've got an obvious way not to is a pretty good sign they want you to think they're female - it's why I started going by my full name, back then. (long before I learned anything about gender not always matching biological sex, outside of the more famous crossdressers) And what if she's FtM and started hormones/blockers early, or has short parents? Could get *really* offended there...and probably any lesbian that doesn't enjoy the drag king thing wouldn't like it much, either.
Quote from: Meepit on September 18, 2010, 02:22:21 AM
I tend to do that too :) high-five to similarities! Although APPARENTLY it's grammatically incorrect to say "they, their, they're" in some of the ways I try to avoid personal pronouns. :-X A for effort?
Screw grammar. Make new grammar. English mutates. It's the least unnatural sounding, especially if you say it fast, rather than trying to think about it or dancing around pronoun avoidance. I use it for the singular rather frequently, even if I'm pretty sure I know what the person is presenting as, if I don't know whoever I'm referring to, and it's not relevant (or has already been established) whether they're male or female, the further away they are from me when I'm talking about them, the greater the chance that they'll get a "they" in reference rather than a "he" or a "she", without me consciously thinking about it.
I do this all the time. I'm alway picking out people and just wondering if they might be trans. I don't know why I do it, especially since I'm not one to quickly judge in other ways (race, religion, etc.). Like for instance, I'm taking a biology class right now titled "Human Sexuality." It doesn't just cover male and female anatomy and physiology, it covers behavior - social behavior regarding sexuality of all sorts and masturbation, as well as trans issues. I always find myself wondering if someone takes this class because it is something they relate to. I know some of my queer friends take it just because they want to learn what other people think about them and their behavior. Although most (if not all) of my friends who are also taking it are gays/lesbians. There is this one person who I think is a trans guy, besides me of course. I haven't talked to him/her so I don't know their name or anything and it is a large class. I also do this in public constantly. but mostly I pick out women with masculine faces (or so I think).
But mainly I think it is my biased opinion when looking at people, and I want to meet other people irl who are like me. I only know one trans guy other than myself irl, and they are much further along in transition than I am.
Quote from: Kareil on September 18, 2010, 09:46:42 AM
I would highly recommend *not* asking. If you'd asked me that about 10 years ago, I'd have ripped you a new one and thought you were just trying to be nasty and harass me. There's only so many times you can take being told you don't count as a girl if you happen to be wanting to identify as such at the time, and I'd say using a distinctly feminine name when you've got an obvious way not to is a pretty good sign they want you to think they're female - it's why I started going by my full name, back then. (long before I learned anything about gender not always matching biological sex, outside of the more famous crossdressers) And what if she's FtM and started hormones/blockers early, or has short parents? Could get *really* offended there...and probably any lesbian that doesn't enjoy the drag king thing wouldn't like it much, either.
Screw grammar. Make new grammar. English mutates. It's the least unnatural sounding, especially if you say it fast, rather than trying to think about it or dancing around pronoun avoidance. I use it for the singular rather frequently, even if I'm pretty sure I know what the person is presenting as, if I don't know whoever I'm referring to, and it's not relevant (or has already been established) whether they're male or female, the further away they are from me when I'm talking about them, the greater the chance that they'll get a "they" in reference rather than a "he" or a "she", without me consciously thinking about it.
She (my classmate) wasn't short by any means :o. Probably about 5'8" or so. And yeah I wouldn't dare ask, just letting people know the thought process. And I do use "they" as opposed to "he" or "she", but I've been called out on it when writing a paper on Gender, Sex, and Sexuality so just warning those who may decide to follow suit :) NOT GOOD in a professional/graded setting :o.
I also often don't use pronouns when referring to people....I guess out of the internal wish that when I was pre-T and didn't pass consistently, I resent those who used the wrong pronouns. Slowly that's fading...but if I'm in doubt I try to ask in a sly way or just say they.
When possible, I don't even use gendered pronouns regarding my cat, Noah. I find myself being reluctant to say "good boy". I'll usually just insert "kitty" or "Noah" where appropriate. Silly me.
I thought I was the only one. I do it all of the time. I'll analyze everything from their throat to see if they have an adam's apple to the way they walk. I don't know why I do this, I guess it's to find people like me.
There's one transguy at my school that I'm positive of. He's completely out because he used to live as a lesbian. Also, he goes by a male name and when he was in my Gym class, the school made him use the girls' locker room and a guy from my grade asked if he was a lesbian and he was in the locker room and started screaming to his female friends, asking if he looked like a lesbian to them. I felt bad. Of course, that was before I recognized my transsexuality.
I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of scared to talk to him. After all, he's the first transperson I've ever met besides myself. Even though he hangs out with my group of friends, I get nervous if I want to say something to him. I'd really like to talk to him about being trans - but I'm scared that he won't belive me or something and think I'm making fun of him. Or he'll tell my best friend (who I tried to tell but didn't believe me because she couldn't see the "masculinity" in my personality. >.< We're drifting apart a little anyway, so it doesn't bother me as much anymore.)
Quote from: Devyn on September 19, 2010, 10:21:02 PM
I'll analyze everything from their throat to see if they have an adam's apple to the way they walk.
Weiiiirdd, I have an adam's apple (it's pretty damn prominent....a lesbian acquaintance flat out asked me about it in high school and now I might think she had suspicions that I'm trans?), but apparently I walk like a girl ::). I'm confused about the adam's apple thing though. Do you take it as a pre-T trans marker or a male/post-T trans marker? Cuz I'm pre-T and I've had mine forever and it's HUGE ??? could this be a hormonal imbalance or possibility that I'm intersexed?
I have a subconscious habit of thinking of people as trans, mostly tomboyish girls. Then I think, "It's really not that common, there's no way that could be true." But then I still wonder about it. Then I'll spend an unhealthy amount of time observing their actions to prove to myself that they're not really trans. I even think one of my old friends might be trans, and I'm spending a lot of time wondering if I should ask.
I also try and figure out the gender of people if I can't tell right off the bat if they're male or female. Then I hit myself and ask "Why does it matter?"
I think I try to do it out of some need to meet other people with the same condition. It's so rare, I tend to clutch at tiny straws.
Quote from: Meepit on September 19, 2010, 10:27:31 PM
Weiiiirdd, I have an adam's apple (it's pretty damn prominent....a lesbian acquaintance flat out asked me about it in high school and now I might think she had suspicions that I'm trans?), but apparently I walk like a girl ::). I'm confused about the adam's apple thing though. Do you take it as a pre-T trans marker or a male/post-T trans marker? Cuz I'm pre-T and I've had mine forever and it's HUGE ??? could this be a hormonal imbalance or possibility that I'm intersexed?
Pre-T. And that's really strange. ??? Though I have to admit, I'm kind of jealous.
Quote from: Meepit on September 19, 2010, 10:27:31 PM
Weiiiirdd, I have an adam's apple (it's pretty damn prominent....a lesbian acquaintance flat out asked me about it in high school and now I might think she had suspicions that I'm trans?), but apparently I walk like a girl ::). I'm confused about the adam's apple thing though. Do you take it as a pre-T trans marker or a male/post-T trans marker? Cuz I'm pre-T and I've had mine forever and it's HUGE ??? could this be a hormonal imbalance or possibility that I'm intersexed?
I heard that there is no correlation between voice and size of adam's apple, but just to ask... is your voice lower than most female's voices?
Quote from: Meepit on September 19, 2010, 10:27:31 PM
Weiiiirdd, I have an adam's apple (it's pretty damn prominent....a lesbian acquaintance flat out asked me about it in high school and now I might think she had suspicions that I'm trans?), but apparently I walk like a girl ::). I'm confused about the adam's apple thing though. Do you take it as a pre-T trans marker or a male/post-T trans marker? Cuz I'm pre-T and I've had mine forever and it's HUGE ??? could this be a hormonal imbalance or possibility that I'm intersexed?
re: adam's apple http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2487.html (http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2487.html)
Quote from: gilligan on September 20, 2010, 05:38:02 PM
I heard that there is no correlation between voice and size of adam's apple, but just to ask... is your voice lower than most female's voices?
Well I can speak from my throat/diaphragm (the apparently "male" way of projecting voice) without sounding like I'm trying to make my voice lower. Another weird occurrence (may be unrelated) was that in 8th grade my voice dropped dramatically for about a week or two. I was actually mistaken for another male classmate when I'd tap someone on the shoulder and ask them a question from behind (so they couldn't see who I was and just identified by voice). Though, I dunno, it could be just genetic? My mum and dad don't have prominent adam's apples, my maternal uncles do though ???. I've always had one and it moves when I talk or swallow (really annoying when it gets pointed out actually) so I never really understood the male-only connection to it. I don't want it to get any bigger :o (will it when I start T?). Also, my neck and shoulder area is quite thick as well, not wide but thick so perhaps that plays a part in how the adam's apple appears ??? I'll update you guys when I get my T-levels checked, cuz I'm just as confused :o.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on September 20, 2010, 06:07:40 PM
re: adam's apple http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2487.html (http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2487.html)
Thanks for the explanation :). But it just gave me different questions now LOL ;D. The link says that it could be due to hormones (doesn't specify which, likely T?) OR a "growth" :o. So yeah maybe I ought to check this out with my doctor, but in all my years, nothing about odd T-levels has come from the doctor's office ??? so I'm hoping it's not a "growth" (I doubt it, but you never know ::)).
I do this occasionally...wonder if someone is trans. It's only ever if I notice something that gives them away as bio-female but they seem to be presenting as male, however (haven't yet seen someone who seems to be a trans lady that I can recall). I'll admit sometimes I want to ask, but I never do for a number of reasons.
Otherwise I don't really wonder about people. Of course I recognize them as one gender or another, or at the least one sex or another, but it's never for any significant reason: if I can't "figure it out" it doesn't bother me and I just move on. Most I ever wonder is if someone is, in fact, trans, and whether they're out and living as the gender they really are -- part of that is that I have always worked in service industries (primarily retail) so I don't want to use a pronoun that may offend or ruin someone's day/mood (especially as I know what that's like), but I'm sure part of it also is the "are they like me?" sort of thoughts.
I don't think it's biased at all or anything. It's human nature, like others have said.
I do this too. I guess I just keep grasping at straws to find someone "like me" nearby. Plus, now that I'm aware of the existence of transsexual people I get paranoid and don't want to use the wrong pronouns and offend a cisgendered person or ruin a trans person's day.