Well, I've been off the forums lately 'cause I've had a lot of things to do (homework, study, go to the gym, etc.), and I'm so glad I'm finally back n_n
But well, this is more like a rant to vent out about what happened today, so if I don't make sense or whatever, say what you want xD.
Anyway, I had an appointment with my shrink this morning, as usual, to discuss my daily issues and my gender identity. We talked about a lot of things, but there's something that she mentioned that I just, didn't like AT ALL.
Before I continue, I need to clear up that my situation is a bit complicated (mother not understanding and trying to pretend that nothing happens, and thinking I'm ok, a father who cares about me but who I barely see, and don't know how he might react when I come out, I'm hoping that he could help me financially to achieve this, he's wealthy enough to help me with everything if he wanted to, but it's a very unpredictable situation). Aaaand, my mother expects me to act as a guy always, so it's almost impossible to do things like learn how to wear makeup, shave my legs, get girl clothes, work on my voice (even though I find time to do this XD) among other things I'd like to do.
She (my therapist, during our session) considered all this and, she also added to the mix that I was going to live whole new experiences at college, and that I should open myself to the possibilities it could bring: "I think that you should consider as an alternative to wait until your 4th year of college to start transitioning, because it could be shocking for your schoolmates to see such changes in you if you did it now, or in a year."
Maybe I'm misinterpreting it (maybe she meant going full time by then, which doesn't sounds that bad as long as I could get on HRT in less than a year from today), and I really hope that was the case but, why would she consider this as an option? Why would she want me to wait another 4 years to see if I can adapt as a guy?
I've though about it, and I just don't like the idea AT ALL. Maybe if I could get on HRT like, in April 2011 and go full time by then, maybe, yes. Then again, I just feel like I can't waste any more time living as a guy and seeing how my body becomes into something I despise.
She also mentioned something: "You seem to have a contradictory way of thinking: You want to start transitioning immediately, yet you're scared of what the future could bring."
I could justify this by saying that yes, I'm scared of what could happen: losing my loved ones (parents, friends, family), being rejected from nice jobs or not being able to do business because I'd get rejected, not having the results I'd expect (I'm not asking to look like a supermodel) and being excluded by society in general.
Yeah, because you need to be reckless and not care about anything in order to really be trans.
That's it!
/end of rant n_n
Discuss
Iceprincess out.
All I can say is that is exactly what was said to me at age 18 by my therapist. I saw him from 1976 to 1978.
The end result in my case was simply that I lost 5 years, to no good purpose, trying to be a young man that if they had bothered to read my medical notes and do the blooming tests properly they would probably have realised that I wasn't anyway! Because as it turns out I had an undiscovered intersex condition! Jeez! ::)
Back then I lacked the support of forums like this, and against my better judgement I allowed myself to be bullied into waiting. That is the ONLY think in my entire life that I really regret and would go back and change if I had my time again.
Now I am not you, and YOU are the only person who can tell what is right for you, but what I can tell you is that if you want to make progress with a therapist you have to be clear in your own mind, and you have to be prepared to show them that this is clearly what you want. A therapists job is to bowl you bouncers and curve balls to find out how you react.
If you react by going into a funk and being all unsure then maybe they have proved their point. If on the other hand you go back a week or so later and metaphorically thump the table and say "NO you are WRONG - I've listened politely, and thought about it but you are definitely wrong. This is what i want, this is what I am going to do, it's my life, so now you either help me, or I find someone else who will..." or words to that effect - then the likelyhood is that you will get what you want.
Bottom - line - don't get angry with your therapist for asking questions, because that is their job, but be firm about what you want, and also be firm to the point of making it clear that if the therapist isn't prepared to work with you towards that goal then you will finding another therapist PDQ.
I'm no expert, but college to me seems like the perfect place to transition as long as it is not a conservative religious institiution of some sort. I dearly wish I had had the courage to face my problems and transition then. Frankly, my close college friends are the ones who are taking the news of my transition the best. They "got it" right away and have been actively helping. Others say they are supportive and then disappear for a bit.
As for fear, I would think you would have to be incredibly naive not to have them. I would be much more worried if you had none. I am scared out of my mind, but I have much more to lose than you. I am also still transitioning despite the fear and emotional and physical pain I have already suffered and will suffer. Courage is the act of facing your fears and still doing what must be done. I don't know you beyond your words here, but I have a feeling you are courageous.
Iceprincess, I did the whole live as a guy for 54 years. Let me tell you that I wish I hadn't. I became suicidal several times. I got to the point that I just did not care about life.
Talk to your therapist and ask why do you have to wait. College is a good time to begin, because most of them are very eclectic in nature. It would not be a shock to the students.
Yes you may lose everything, but gain your whole life.
I'm gonna back up Jenny here, to an extent.
I hope you don't think I'm being presumptious, but I am pretty sure what is going on here.
Your mother is trying to ignore the situation. You are having problems dealing with her.
Your father doesn't yet know. You are unsure of how he will react.
You are attempting to humour your mother's vision of you as a boy. You are still in a bit of a panic, so to speak, about how your dad will react, or how to tell him.
Now, as Jenny says, these people sometimes like to throw curved balls. I know they don't want to put themselves into a position of telling you what to do.
So, for her attitude, try this. There's an old saying, 'I'm not popular enough to be different.' This makes perfect sense. think about any group. There are always a few excentrics, the funny one, the strong one, the chaotic one, the angry one, the one who never turns up. Think about these and other excentrics within any group. Think about how they fit in with the rest. The funny one, if his humour is spontanious and non-threating, tends to be popular. Otherwise, he is just a pain. The strong one, if he picks fights is a pain. The angry one is usually a pain. The one who never turns up, they give up.
I am pretty certain, as certain as I can be, that she is suggesting you wait till your position in the college community is secure. However that works out.
So, this is what I might consider doing. It isn't advice. I am not you. I won't say I would do this, just consider it.
I might go to college and as I make friends, tell them about myself. I would take a little time before getting too much into the personal stuff, too much information as they call it.
But from the start I would dress in a manner that says I am essentially feminine. Not female clothing as such, no padding, no makeup.
Bright colours at first. If you can try for the androgeny look.
As I get to know people and they ask I make it clear, 'I need to be female. It's the way I've always been. I intend to do something about this as and when I can. I won't try to justify it because I can't. It's just who I am. I'm not after your boyfriends, I'm not after you. '
Now I'm not saying I would make that little speech as it is. That would be seriously weird and back to the Too much information bit. But that is what I will have in my mind.
Apart from that, I would make a load of effort to get along with people. To enjoy the same things they do. Join a few clubs. Avoid drugs and alcohol like a diabetic avoids sugar, but never to preach a message. (Believe me, this is a plus, finantially as well as accademically).
Gradually, as I become more confident with my friends and myself, gradually exapnd my appearance. But always in a discrete and subtle way.
As the college progresses, I know that, eventually, I will be able to go to a party or similar as me.
Now, as I said, that is just me. But you could think about what you want to do.
College is a good time to try things out, especially if you are going to one that is not in the same town as your family. Lots of people try lots of things. Most colleges these days have an active LGBT group that does include us T's.
You might tell your therapist that you see college as a good opportunity to explore and break free, and ask her why she thinks you should wait.
We need support and information during transition, and we need to think carefully about consequences, but ultimately it is our decision.
But as Spacial is saying, it isn't an all-or-nothing thing. Try a few things, edge into it, see how it goes.
Good luck, dear.
- Kate
I transitioned at 32. I regret everyday i didnt do it as soon as i possibly could, but let me give you some advice.
#1) you can start your transition without being full time - start on HRT (it takes a while to work), when you feel you look enough like a woman that you are comfortable, that is when you go full time.
#2) the sooner you start hair removal the better (electro/laser)
#3) get your body in shape for the transition, if your body is in good shape, hormones will work better then if your body isnt in proper nutrition, thats not to say things wont happen, but they typically will happen slower.
#4) if you can get injections instead of pills do that, it works faster, if not patch is 2nd best option.
#5) if you want to learn makeup, i recommend going to a cosmetics place, like for me it was MAC, they gave me a natural look and explained how to put it on, but cosmetics are pricey.
#6) Cloths - you will need to find "YOUR LOOK", basically to do that you got to try on a lot of cloths at stores and find the styles of clothing that work with your body, dont be sad if you put something on and it looks terrible, not all girls can fit into that dress right. There are a lot of factors and womens bodies vary much more then mens. A size 8 isnt always a size 8 heh.. Try on one style of jeans it fits.. try another the same size it doesnt... The goal in finding your look is to find the styles of clothing that maximize what good things your body has and minimize the bad. For example.. small straps / no straps, and V, U, or Straight cut tops work for me, but broad straps make my shoulders look to big. The more i am on HRT the more styles of clothing seem I seem to be able to wear now without issue. Cloths are big thing, Make sure you pick something age appropriate, check out what girls are wearing around campus and take mental notes or pictures to help in your shopping.
#7) you will need shoes to go with those outfits
#8) you will need to find a job to pay for HRT, shoes, cosmetics, and cloths.
#9) unless your date is another woman, THE GUY ALWAYS PAYS! because they dont need 2 hours to get ready, 200+ dollars in cosmetics, or a closet full of shoes and cloths.
i could write more but i will stop there.
I'm not going to immediately assume she's a bad therapist just because of this, as stated by another member, it could be a test. She's a very good therapist and for some reason, I don't doubt on her skills but, I feel like I need to make it clear that this is the path I want to pursue in my life.
One thing is true: this incident made me think a lot and, I feel more than ready to take this challenge, whatever the consequences may be.
I want to be a woman, not a man anymore.
I'm sending her an email right now.
This is a copy of the email I'm sending to her:
QuoteGood evening, Doctor.
I hope you're doing well today.
I've carefully though about what happened during our last session, specially the alternative you talked to me about and, I've reached a few conclusions:
Sincerely, I believe that waiting 4 years is a terrible idea. I've lived enough time as a boy, I consider that I've lived enough experiences as one to reach the conclusion that I can't tolerate this kind of life anymore. I can't picture the idea of wasting four years of my life, watching how my body masculinizes more as time goes by just to transition after college, besides, no one guarantees me that it will be easier for me to transition after I get my degree.
When I mean with wasting time is to live more as a guy and allow that the biological development goes as it's supossed to be by my birth sex. I never meant "wasting time at college, studying" or "wasting time preparing myself mentally for this". I just don't wanna see how my body rots, taking away every chance to become the beautiful woman who I need to be.
The more I think about it, the more I want to be ME and the bigger it becomes the need to achieve this goal. It becomes a priority in life, to live as a girl, that society sees me and treats me as a woman and to express myself as such. I don't understand why, I just know it is, and I'm aware of the fact that THIS is what I want for MY life.
There's something I wanna make very clear for you: I do completely understand that transitioning is a long, complicated and risky process. I clearly understand that hormones are not some little magicall pills that will turn me into a supermodel, and I'm aware of the risks behind them (cancer, lvier and kidney failure, among others). I do understand that I'll need to learn a lot of new things to become a woman, and still, I think it's unfair to wait more than what I expected to make any biological change in my body. I know I have to be patient but... How long? Until I'm 30 and then my chances of ending up well are all gone?
I strongly believe that transitioning while assisting to college is the best option for me, because of the simple fact that I can start younger, therefore, increasing my chances to get better results from HRT, besides that I'l be able to live experiences as the person who I want to be, not this thing I've been forced to be during the last 18 years of my life.
About my "contradictory thinking", here's my opinion:
Yes, I do want to transition, I want to be a woman, I don't want to be a man anymore. However, this does not means I can't be afraid of what the future might bring: losing my family, my friends, losing opportunities of employment and business and lastly, my friends. In short words: to be completely excluded from society just for being a transsexual woman. Do I have to be a reckless and indifferent person in order to be taken seriously? that's not fair AT ALL, and it makes no sense. I've seen how society treats most of the transsexual women, and it hurts me so much to think about the possibility of this happening to me.
Wouldn't you be scared of losing the people you love? imagine this: you get a brand new car for your son, wouldn't you feel scared or worried of losing your child in a car accident? That doesn't means you'll take away the right of your son to have one, will you?
You have NO idea how much I love my family. I love my mom, my dad, his wife, my half brothers and my step brothers, my cousins, uncles and friends. I love them so much, they're the foundation of my life, my motivation, my fuel, and you don't know how much it would hurt me to lose them. i don't wanna be alone for pursuing my most wished dreams.
That is just not fair. However, I'm not going to force anyone to be with me if they can't love me like this, as who I really am.
They say that true bravery comes when you're aware of the dangers and yet you do it anyway consciously, fighting to achieve what you want. That's what makes a real hero. I've though enough about it, and I wanna take this challenge. I don't wanna wait any longer.
I hope you can understand my points of view.
Best Regards
xxxxxxxxxxx
It sound really good. I hope it brings about the change that you are seeking.
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 17, 2010, 09:39:33 AM
She (my therapist, during our session) considered all this and, she also added to the mix that I was going to live whole new experiences at college, and that I should open myself to the possibilities it could bring: "I think that you should consider as an alternative to wait until your 4th year of college to start transitioning, because it could be shocking for your schoolmates to see such changes in you if you did it now, or in a year."
Maybe I'm misinterpreting it (maybe she meant going full time by then, which doesn't sounds that bad as long as I could get on HRT in less than a year from today), and I really hope that was the case but, why would she consider this as an option? Why would she want me to wait another 4 years to see if I can adapt as a guy?
I've though about it, and I just don't like the idea AT ALL. Maybe if I could get on HRT like, in April 2011 and go full time by then, maybe, yes. Then again, I just feel like I can't waste any more time living as a guy and seeing how my body becomes into something I despise.
She also mentioned something: "You seem to have a contradictory way of thinking: You want to start transitioning immediately, yet you're scared of what the future could bring."
I don't know how old you are, but there's a big difference in starting HRT at age 18 and at age 22. Under normal circumstances, you should be on anti androgens before you turn 18 and start estrogen on your 18th birthday. If your therapist doesn't see that, then get a new therapist ASAP, and if you are 18, don't settle for anything less than starting HRT within 3 months of the first appointment. Any other course of treatment for a young transitioner who has had persistent desire to transition since childhood is just irresponsible, and straight up negligent.
Just to add up some more info, I was supposed to start transitioning when I was 14, but my mom stopped me from doing it :/
Every single day that passed from the day I turned 15, 'til I went to my first session (3 months before I turned 18 this last July 28th), I always got up every morning, looked myself in the mirror, and asked myself "what if I've done thos or that". I fully regret that I listened to her and that I tried to hide it for so long :/
I was a stupid, to say the least.
I've had enough...
Just a small suggestion; if I were in your shoes, I'd try to reword some parts of the letter to sound a little less adversarial. To cite an example: "You have NO idea how much I love my family. I love my mom, my dad, his wife, my half brothers and my step brothers, my cousins, uncles and friends." It's important to convey that your family are an important part of your life, but saying "you have no idea" makes me think of those women who say "YOU DON'T KNOW ME. YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I CAME FROM." I tend to be a bit too non-confrontational, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but when I see someone saying something in that tone, I just kind of shut down. I think that "polite, but firm" would elicit a much more desired response.
Just my proverbial two cents.
Some therapists just don't want to deal with you actually going through with it.
If you act confident, it's interpreted as recklessness.
If you act careful and conservative, it's interpreted as uncertainty.
Being confrontational or passive makes no difference (or at least it didn't with the doctors I saw who didn't want to be involved). Confrontation is rejected as arrogance, passivity is rejected as indecision.
My solution, after my first therapist wanted me to jump through hoops prior to HRT, I saw a second therapist, after she was even worse, I dumped both of them and saw a third. Third was more reasonable. By that time I had started carrying out my repeated threat that I would self medicate if I stop believing that legal HRT is possible within a 'reasonable' time frame. That itself lead directly to her recommending me for HRT as a method of harm reduction. If I hadn't been self medicating, it probably would have taken a few extra months for me to convince her, possibly more.
Don't mistake this for me advocating self medication, I think the best option (if it's available) is a competent doctors (not just a doctor, a competent doctor) supervision. They can order us blood tests that provide important information, without which, you're flying blind.
This is not really advocating or dissuading self medication, simply explaining what happened for me and my take on it. I think you gotta do what you gotta do, and that for me, waiting months or years to justify to a therapist what I knew to be the right course of action, all the while watching time of my life I'll never get back pass me by for their benefit, was NEVER on the table.
Something I had many doctors be unable to understand, is the concept that when it comes to my life, I will act in my best interests, nobody elses. This is your life, it's not the therapists life. If you let them take years away from your life, in the end you'll be the only one to pay a price for that, they won't.
If I had been confronted with your therapist, I would have told them the same thing I told my own whom didn't give me any timeframe at all (just... when they're ready, with most indication being at least a year). Which is that I will act in my best interests, and that includes them only to the point at which they stop being what I consider to be the best route to solve my problems. And that as soon as I think HRT is not possible within a reasonable timeframe with them, I will begin looking into other options.
That did NOT work for me initially, it was only when I carried out my threat to self medicate that I saw results. I had one doctor (not a therapist) outright tell me they would drop me as a patient if I did that. So your mileage may vary.
I don't for a moment regret my choice to self medicate, I don't regret changing therapists twice, I don't regret anything I did because I did what I believed at the time to be the best thing for my well being. You have to remember that, you're young right now, you won't be for the majority of your life. Any time you use up now you will NEVER get back.
Think about what you want, and what the best ways are to achieve that.
Quote from: long.897 on September 18, 2010, 12:31:08 AM
Just a small suggestion; if I were in your shoes, I'd try to reword some parts of the letter to sound a little less adversarial. To cite an example: "You have NO idea how much I love my family. I love my mom, my dad, his wife, my half brothers and my step brothers, my cousins, uncles and friends." It's important to convey that your family are an important part of your life, but saying "you have no idea" makes me think of those women who say "YOU DON'T KNOW ME. YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I CAME FROM." I tend to be a bit too non-confrontational, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but when I see someone saying something in that tone, I just kind of shut down. I think that "polite, but firm" would elicit a much more desired response.
Just my proverbial two cents.
Yes well said, polite, determined, focussed on what you want to happen.
Therapists are there to try and put a spanner in the works to see if you are serious and really transexual. They have no other way to determine what's in your thoughts and mind otherwise. Its a way of teasing from you your feelings, etc.
I was a whole year in therapy before I got HRT, I asked on my first appointment and they said no. Well here I am three years later a fully paid up member of the female brigade and been told to go away by my surgeon and live my life. Well that's it really living our lives.
Stardust
IcePrincess.
That email is fine. Best of luck.
I think it is fine too.
hugs!
Quote from: Ashley4214 on September 18, 2010, 02:41:27 AM
Being confrontational or passive makes no difference (or at least it didn't with the doctors I saw who didn't want to be involved). Confrontation is rejected as arrogance, passivity is rejected as indecision.
Welcome to being treated as a woman. This double-bind will be replicated over and over in your lives.
Truth is, there is no "right way" to approach this. Your email is fine, as likely to be effective as anything could be. You're stuck in the ->-bleeped-<-ty situation of being a woman and wanting something from a paternalistic system that wants to keep it from you "for your own good." Good luck.
Quote
I was a stupid, to say the least.
No you weren't stupid, you were just a child :) I too never had the courage to take a stand against my mom those days, but after all, she's the adult not me :) Actually, a parent is responsible for their kids so if you feel stupid about this then it's clearly not your fault.
It seems you like to use harsh words, I agree with (some...) others here that the email you wrote also contains at places a bit of aggressive behaviour. If you cut down on those it'll be just fine. Less drama and more conversation is always more practical :) Don't be indifferent just keep your calm. This way they'll know you're determined and strong enough to actually go through all this.
Otherwise I totally agree, 4 years at your age is too much. I'd say 1 year at most, but that's really the longest I could imagine. For someone my age, it doesn't make much of a difference but in yours, it's a lot. You're beautiful and must keep it that way at any price :)
g
I already sent the email yesterday, too late to regret :P
Sorry, but I think it's OK and, I had to do it my way ;)
Now, I'll have to wait for an answer and, hopefully, I'll get what I want with this.
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 18, 2010, 12:27:04 AM
Just to add up some more info, I was supposed to start transitioning when I was 14, but my mom stopped me from doing it :/
Every single day that passed from the day I turned 15, 'til I went to my first session (3 months before I turned 18 this last July 28th), I always got up every morning, looked myself in the mirror, and asked myself "what if I've done thos or that". I fully regret that I listened to her and that I tried to hide it for so long :/
I was a stupid, to say the least.
I've had enough...
Thanks for the additional info. How long have you been going to this therapist? Is this someone your mother picked out to try and stop you from transitioning? That happened to me at first. You can't let your parents pick your therapist if they are against the transition.
More information:
I came out to my mom when I was 14yrs old (April 2007), things went dramatic and she took me to a therapist. Things were going fine for me and I think I was close to start HRT, maybe even tell my dad about my condition, but my mom decided to take the situation on her hands and stopped taking me to see her, cut off my internet connection and did other things to stop me from transitioning early.
It seemed like fear worked well, until April 2010 (3 years later), when I decided to do something about my feeling thanks to a friend of mine who encouraged me to pursue my dreams (Thank you Grace!). I went to an LGBT support group and talked with their social worked, who sent me with a therapist (not the one I saw 3 years ago) who apparently had a lot of experience in the field. I had my first appointment during the first week of May 2010, and since then, I've had a session every 2 weeks with her.
You do the math ;)
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 18, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
More information:
I came out to my mom when I was 14yrs old (April 2007), things went dramatic and she took me to a therapist. Things were going fine for me and I think I was close to start HRT, maybe even tell my dad about my condition, but my mom decided to take the situation on her hands and stopped taking me to see her, cut off my internet connection and did other things to stop me from transitioning early.
It seemed like fear worked well, until April 2010 (3 years later), when I decided to do something about my feeling thanks to a friend of mine who encouraged me to pursue my dreams (Thank you Grace!). I went to an LGBT support group and talked with their social worked, who sent me with a therapist (not the one I saw 3 years ago) who apparently had a lot of experience in the field. I had my first appointment during the first week of May 2010, and since then, I've had a session every 2 weeks with her.
You do the math ;)
She only needs 3 months and 3 sessions to write your HRT letter. You've done about 5 months and about ten sessions. What's the hold up?
Does she not realize that you have an opportunity to get BONE GROWTH if you start now?
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 18, 2010, 05:53:59 PM
She only needs 3 months and 3 sessions to write your HRT letter. You've done about 5 months and about ten sessions. What's the hold up?
Does she not realize that you have an opportunity to get BONE GROWTH if you start now?
Bone growth? Care to explain?
You know how women have narrower shoulders and wider hips?
Well, unless you were on anti androgens, your hormones probably made your shoulders grow already, and not your hips.
But if you get on E before you miss your window, you can still get the hip growth.
Hardly anyone still gets bone growth after age 22, but you might be able to get some if you act quickly. The ability to grow bones shuts off at different ages for different people, but its usually somewhere between age 17 and age 22, if I'm not mistaken. So the clock is ticking. I'd do about anything to be able to get bone growth, but I didn't start HRT until age 22 D: qq
Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 18, 2010, 10:18:02 PM
You know how women have narrower shoulders and wider hips?
Well, unless you were on anti androgens, your hormones probably made your shoulders grow already, and not your hips.
But if you get on E before you miss your window, you can still get the hip growth.
Hardly anyone still gets bone growth after age 22, but you might be able to get some if you act quickly. The ability to grow bones shuts off at different ages for different people, but its usually somewhere between age 17 and age 22, if I'm not mistaken. So the clock is ticking. I'd do about anything to be able to get bone growth, but I didn't start HRT until age 22 D: qq
...seriously?!?!?!? :|
I have a random question, I've heard it's impossible but there's still not much info about it apparently but, is it true that, in some cases, hormones CAN change the bone structure (but it takes a LONG time, around 15 years or something)?
But anyway... I really hope I can get HRT soon :/
I swear that if I can't get anything started before turning 19, I'm either forgetting all of this or I'll end up killing myself, and the way I see this, it could be the latter :(
I'm just so sick of being a guy...
Each of us must go down this road on our own terms, no one else's. Yes some therapists hold to the SOC, but most see them as guidelines.
You must do what you have to for you, within the law. And I think you realize what I mean.
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 18, 2010, 10:34:42 PM
is it true that, in some cases, hormones CAN change the bone structure (but it takes a LONG time, around 15 years or something)?
No :) But as glenda mentioned, up until 22 you can have some hip growth. After that, forget it.
Quote
I swear that if I can't get anything started before turning 19, I'm either forgetting all of this or I'll end up killing myself, and the way I see this, it could be the latter :( I'm just so sick of being a guy...
ahh, our drama queen has surfaced again :) Don't say you'll kill yourself, it's a serious topic (especially here) and you're not that kind anyway. We were also sick of being guys and yet we're still here. Go for the hormones, for the hip growth, push the damned beurocrats as hard as you can :) but don't say this.
You've gotta be strong. Getting the juice is just ONE obstacle during transition, there'll be others and you'll have to cope with them also.
g
I didn't give any updates because nothing interesting has happened lately :P
So, a week ago I sent my dad an email with the following message:
QuoteHey Dad,
I hope you're well. I'm writing because I feel I need to tell you something very important that has been affecting my life in negitive ways for a long time. The next time you come back to Guadalajara can you meet me for lunch or something as soon as possible please? I feel this is important enough to only see you in person for.
Thanks. Take care
Well, a few hours ago my dad called me, he said he read my email and he wanted to know what was about.
I told him that I had to tell him in person and that I couldn't do it over the phone. He asked why, I just told him I couldn't.
Then he asked "Can I know what's this all about?" and I told him that I just couldn't talk about this right now.
He asked me to call him tomorrow or as soon as I could x.x
I can't come out to him over the phone, it would just be bluntly stupid...
*sigh*
Maybe I could, but only if I plant it carefully :/
Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 17, 2010, 11:21:14 AM
Iceprincess, I did the whole live as a guy for 54 years. Let me tell you that I wish I hadn't. I became suicidal several times. I got to the point that I just did not care about life.
Talk to your therapist and ask why do you have to wait. College is a good time to begin, because most of them are very eclectic in nature. It would not be a shock to the students.
Yes you may lose everything, but gain your whole life.
Ditto that here! Exactly the same experience. Started hormone replacement therapy 2 months and 2 weeks after turning 54. Wasted darned near my whole life, but even at this late, great date, it's still very much worth it making the transition.
Colleges these days are way, way more accepting and cool about things like these than they were in the 1960s and 1970s. I must agree that college, these days, is probably the best place to transition.
Keep the faith. Be you. Be happy. We're cheering for you here at Susan's Place.
Iceprincess,
Tell your dad as soon as you can. As I parent, if I received a call saying my child had a big issue she couldn't tell me over the phone, I would worry myself sick until I found out what it was. Set up a time that you can talk to him face-to-face. If that isn't possible, write an undramatic, simple letter that explains the rough outlines but doesn't go into details. Let him ask for the details he wants to know.
Coming out to your parents can be very difficult, but you can do it. Good luck, dear. :icon_flower:
- Kate
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 18, 2010, 10:34:42 PM
...seriously?!?!?!? :|
I have a random question, I've heard it's impossible but there's still not much info about it apparently but, is it true that, in some cases, hormones CAN change the bone structure (but it takes a LONG time, around 15 years or something)?
But anyway... I really hope I can get HRT soon :/
I swear that if I can't get anything started before turning 19, I'm either forgetting all of this or I'll end up killing myself, and the way I see this, it could be the latter :(
I'm just so sick of being a guy...
Hormones can effect bones if they are still growing, they cannot effect them if they have fully formed, also the female bone structure in general you will probably not get such as the pelvis which is setup for childbirth, however fat distribution makes up for a lot of it, bones aren't everything after all, and there are methods to effect appearance. So the short answer, the younger you start the better on average. Dont worry so much though, i started at 32 and turned out pretty good so far, so it has as much to do with how you take care of your body and genetics as well.
Few updates:
I had my therapy session yesterday... My dr. didn't even read the email I sent to her...
She still wants me to wait 1 year, mentioning that "that's what the SOC says"... I'm not stupid, the SOC says 3 months AT LEAST. I know, YMMV but, I can't keep waiting for so long.
I'm going to see another psychologist: mom best friend's mom. Just as a 2nd opinion, see what she says and from there, take decisions.
I AM coming out to my dad, but in person. Not over the phone... unless you people have an idea of how to do it XD
bye
Ok, I admit I went over the edge with the suicidal comment... so forget that xD
But yeah, that's what's going on atm...
bye
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 30, 2010, 11:21:21 PM
Few updates:
I had my therapy session yesterday... My dr. didn't even read the email I sent to her...
She still wants me to wait 1 year, mentioning that "that's what the SOC says"... I'm not stupid, the SOC says 3 months AT LEAST. I know, YMMV but, I can't keep waiting for so long.
I'm going to see another psychologist: mom best friend's mom. Just as a 2nd opinion, see what she says and from there, take decisions.
I AM coming out to my dad, but in person. Not over the phone... unless you people have an idea of how to do it XD
Oh yeah, you need to get a different therapist. And I wouldn't go back to that place that referred you for anything. There has to be a better place to get referrals. I wouldn't waste time shopping around by going to therapsits. Find one who prescribes HRT within 3 months and go to them. If you can't seem to find one, PM me with your location and I'll see what I can find.
This really makes me MAD >:(
@ Iceprincess:
Glendagladwitch and Sada above gave you great advice. It sounds like you are really hurting inside. I wish I could help but don't really know enough to do so. PM glendagladwitch like she says. I'm sure she can help you. The sooner the better. A truly professional and CARING therapist is really hard to find. Referrals are the best way to find one. PM people on here who can help you, because they CAN help, and they will. My best to you.
@ Sada:
Good for you! Yes, a good support group is great. Wish I could find one myself. To date, my contacts with the LGBT Community have just not gone well at all. The T Community has generally been the best of the batch. Guess it's just me. :P
@ Glendagladwitch:
Glenda, you gave Iceprincess awesome advice. Thanks for doing that. Hey, this makes me mad too, really mad. In the end, I've run into therapists hassles myself, and it miffs me to the max. Know why? Because, hassles are unnecessary. If a therapists doesn't want to treat us or does not like us, all they have to do is simply say so, and we'll find somebody else, right? Crazy. I'll never understand it. Again, guess it's just me. :P
You've all given Iceprincess really good advice. She needs the help. Thanks for helping her.
Whoa this is sort of wierd. You are in the EXACT same situation as me! I started going in may 2010 to a well known gender identity therapist in the Washington DC area. I've been seeing her once per week since then. I went to a therapist when I was younger for similar reasons and my parents stopped taking me. I am in college and am tired of presenting my male self. This is sort of cool. ;)
As far as the waiting thing goes I think some doctors are uncomfortable dealing with patients as young as us. It makes the uncomfortable to write a such a life changing letter for us. My therapist keeps telling me "it won't be years but it could be a year" which is very unsettling. I have been seeing her for 5 months now and the only thing I've been able to do with my transition is hair removal. I'm going to ask her if she is comfortable dealing with someone of my age and her opinion on a date for starting hormones/going full time. Honestly if she is uncomfortable with my age or plans on making me wait a year then I'm going to have to find a new doctor.
We just have to be tough and push for what we want. It's only a matter of time. :P
Quote from: Iceprincess on September 30, 2010, 11:21:21 PM
Few updates:
I had my therapy session yesterday... My dr. didn't even read the email I sent to her...
She still wants me to wait 1 year, mentioning that "that's what the SOC says"... I'm not stupid, the SOC says 3 months AT LEAST. I know, YMMV but, I can't keep waiting for so long.
I'm going to see another psychologist: mom best friend's mom. Just as a 2nd opinion, see what she says and from there, take decisions.
I AM coming out to my dad, but in person. Not over the phone... unless you people have an idea of how to do it XD
If you do come out to him my only suggestion is to not start with: "Dad I am/want to be a X" its too much of a shock unless you cool it down first. I would say, that for a long time things have not made sense to you so you are seeing a therapist, if the therapist said your GID then its ok to say the therapist confirmed my suspicions. Go and talk about your life since you were little to where you are now, thing they saw and things they didnt, its harder to deny when they have seen a pattern of strange actions by you your whole life even as a child. Tell him everything up until the point then tell it to him this way. So that leaves me with really two choices, to get therapy and live a happy life, or not and continue down the road to depression and possibly even death as I am already having suicidal thoughts. Therapy does work, but involves extreme techniques. You see, in order for me to live normally they have to change my outside body to match whats going on internally..... it inolves....
They might ask you why you waited so long, you lived as a man this long why not live longer? Simple answer is, just because you have cancer doesnt mean you have to treat it, people have their reasons for postponing treatment, wanting to try other methods to overcome it, after trying those methods all the roads being exhausted the final choice has to be made... the time when i lived as a man, that was the time i was fighting, but nothing helped, this is the only choice, because like cancer this can kill me.
Stuff like that... its truth, but also has some sense of understanding... its hard for people to relate so with my dad i gave the example:
Imagine if you were in a war and Mr. Johnson took a bullet and was MIA for future engagements... You would still feel like a man wouldnt you? but you would feel less of one without it... well now you can imagine how i feel, where nothing in my body is right, just imagine how you would feel waking up every morning and coming to the realization that your a man with a tool so to speak, after a while it would get to you .... etc. etc...
Quote from: Lacey Lynne on October 01, 2010, 09:02:23 AM
If a therapists doesn't want to treat us or does not like us, all they have to do is simply say so, and we'll find somebody else, right? Crazy. I'll never understand it.
hmm, maybe they want to take some kind of revenge or something? :) I know it sounds stupid but if they don't like someone (for whatever reason), the best possible thing to do is to torture them... yeah it seems you have to leave that doc for good.
g
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 01, 2010, 12:10:26 AM
Ok, I admit I went over the edge with the suicidal comment... so forget that xD
But yeah, that's what's going on atm...
I know just how you feel only I didn't know I was trans until I was 18 and now at 19 I wish I had known at your age.My therapist told me he was going to give me a letter and I went and got my blood tested and everything but it hasn't happened yet so I kind of feel like you if I'm not on hormones by twenty I don't know what I'll do.
I already wrote the possible letter for my dad, I'll ask a few friends to take a look at it, give me their feedback and see if it needs any modification. I'll also post it here (I have to translate it from Spanish to English >_<), but you people have to give me some time ok?
EDIT: This is the letter I'm planning to send him, take a look at it (warning: it's too long), any feedback is welcome, as well as any suggestion to it...
QuoteHello Dad!
How's everything going over there? I hope you're doing really great today.
Do you remember the e-mail that I sent you a few days ago regarding something I wanted to tell you? You asked me to tell you over the phone, however, I simply couldn't. I hope that once you finish reading this letter, you can understand why.
First than nothing, I want to thank you, for all the help you have provided me with. Thanks to you I finished high school with high grades, I can study college and mandarin Chinese. Thanks to you I have been able to grow as a person, and I have the courage and bravery to face the world.
I also want to thank you for having the courage to introduce me to your wife as YOUR child, that requires a LOT of bravery and you have my respect and admiration, not just for that, but for being the man you are and for what you have done in your life. For me, you are a great man, a role model, and the best of it: my father. I'm very proud of you and, everyday I thank god for giving me the chance of being a member of your family, and for having such a great person on my side.
I also want to thank your family, your wife and her children, for welcoming me to their family with their arms wide open. I love you all so much, to the point I dare to say that all of them ARE part of my family. I love them a lot, seriously, thank you for all that.
Listen, what I'm about to tell you right now is very tough. Before continuing, I need you to relax and calm down. If at this very moment you're tense, angry or stressed because of your job or other issue, I ask you please to read this later.
I know you're a very smart and mature person, so I ask you please to take it seriously and with calm. Take your time.
Dad... I want to be a girl.
What you're feeling right now might be pretty much what I'm feeling at this moment as well: fear, shock, and frustration among other mixed feelings.
If you don't want to keep reading this, I'll understand it but please, I beg you to continue, because ignoring it just won't make it go away.
You might be doing yourself a lot of questions, among them: Why does my son wants to do this?
Emotionally: Because this is who I am, and how I'm always going to be for the rest of my life until the day I die. This is how I've felt since I was 4 or less. If I never dared to tell you this before, it was because of fear, fear as to what could the future bring for me, fear to lose you, my mom and everyone I love, fear to uncertainty.
I decided, instead, to build the foundations of my future and move on with life, hoping that one day things would fix by themselves, however, that day never came. I've realized that I am who has to execute the actions in order to achieve my goals in life.
One of the memories I have about this is when I was 11 years old, you, my mom and me went to a restaurant, 1 month before graduating from elementary school. I remember that we were in your car, I was at the back seat and I was going to make you a question, all of a sudden, something stopped me from doing so. That question was: "The day I marry, would you take me to the shrine?" Another memory I have is when you took me to see the exotic motorbikes in Puerta de Hierro, I was going to tell you everything, but I didn't dare to, again, because of fear.
You know very well that I'm a very smart person. Since I was a kid, I saw all of the crude realities and atrocities of our society, specifically, how they treat people that are "different". I've seen how they treat them, reject them, avoid them and laugh at them without ANY valid reason. Hating just for hating. Human nature? Possibly... Justified? In no way. That's why I decided to not open my mouth on that, and many other things I've felt in the past, because of fear, because you have no idea how much I love you and how much I'm afraid of losing you and my mother.
No, I am NOT gay. There is a huge difference between sexual preference and gender identity.
Everything I'm talking about in this letter is about my gender identity and how I feel. Since I remember I feel like this, and the desperation for fixing this damage is too big to describe it. I need to leave something very clear: I am not a guy with a mental problem, I am a girl with a physical one.
During all these years, I've proven you that I am a very capable person: someone who is smart, clever and who has enough mental strength to do anything if there's enough will. Listen dad: I have a lot of aspirations in this life. I want to get my bachelor's degree, and maybe a Ph. D, I want to learn Chinese and German, I want to leave something good to mankind, I want to be part of the huge social movements that are coming in the next years but, I just feel that if I don't do something to ix this problem I'm telling you, I'll never achieve it. Because it's consuming me inside, it's killing my soul slowly and painfully.
Maybe you have heard of the term "Transsexuality", in general, it touches this theme, however, I despise this term, because it has NOTHING to do with sex.
There are millions of people like me in the world, and no, not only the people who work as prostitutes or pornographic actresses (and if they ended like this, it was possibly because they never got moral and/or financial support from their families). Many of them live respectful lives, and they just try to move on with their life and be happy. It's very possible that you've seen a very gorgeous, young and petite girl walking down the street, and that she may have passed through the same situation I am passing through at this moment.
These people dedicate their lives to a lot of legal activities: business people, models, engineers, politicians, fashion designers, scientists, police officers, etc. The possibilities are endless. Unfortunately, our society is afraid of the unknown, to changes, and because of that, they've done atrocious things in the past in order to defend their interests.
I want to tell you that this is NOT your or my mom's fault, you guys raised me well enough to help me become a strong and useful member of society. This is not a way of getting your attention, or a stage, and it's not happening because you weren't by my side. I don't know why things didn't work between you and my mom, but I've learned that this is the way relationships work, and that you've got to find a person who can love you for who you are. Maybe you had another reasons, and for me, they're valid. You know why you did it and you don't have to justify them to no one, because it's YOUR life, not my mom's, not mine, not your wife's, not your children's; and if that made you happy, then that's more than enough for me. I've always kept you in my heart, everything I do is dedicate it to you, my mother and my loved ones.
I want you to understand that, but also, nothing you or my mom would have done with me, would ever change what I think and feel regarding my identity and my body.
This is something I must do father, I need to do it for my own good, for my mental and spiritual health. It's going to be a very difficult road for me, but I am going to do it, with or without the support from my loved ones, and I am NOT letting ANYONE gets in my way, because this is my life, this is what I must do if I want to become a functional member of society, I need to be ME.
There aren't many scientific explanations regarding to this phenomenon, there's still a lot of debate about its origin. One of the theories says that when the fetus is being developed in the mother's womb, we're bombarded with hormones of the sex and gender we are supposed to have, which should match. As we've learned during the last years, nature makes mistakes; it is not perfect (for example, cancer, which is caused because of a misinterpretation of the DNA sequence it's supposed to replicate, as well as other malformations and disorders such as down syndrome and Alzheimer, just to mention a few), because of environmental or genetic reasons, the brain does not receive the hormones it needs to match the body, therefore, you get a body with a certain sex, but with a brain that does not matches it: a brain with the opposite sex. As I said, there's still a lot of uncertainty about it among the scientific community and a lot of research has to be done to reach concrete conclusions.
The change process is complicated, it takes a long time and it's expensive. Overall, it starts with a psychological evaluation that lasts at least 3 months (by the way, I've been seeing a therapist since April 2010, without my mother knowledge, paid from my own savings.), once I'm done with that, I can proceed with something known as HRT, which consist on taking WITH STRICT MEDICAL SUPERVISION hormones that will stop the body masculinization process (testosterone blockers), as well as hormones that will start the physical feminization process (estrogens and progesterone, among others). This will be for the rest of my life. After some time, a lot of physical and emotional changes will be noticed, probably quickly.
Note: I must clear that the sooner I start with the changes, the better results I will get, and fortunately, I still have some time left to get good results.
As time passes, I will have to adopt my new and real identity, which means that I will have to start living as a girl. Do not worry: I will not look like Fred Flinstone in a dress. As I said the results are better the sooner I start with this. And finally, the SRS, as well as the needed legal changes to make sure ALL of my legal documentation fits my new identity (birth certificates, ID's, etc).
All this will take a long time, approximately from 3 to 5 years to complete. If everything goes well, I should be done when I turn 24 years old, and then I'll be able to live as a normal girl. I need to do this, and I will do it with or without your help. I'm already 18 years old and I need to take responsibility of my body and my life.
I'm really sorry for hurting you with all of this, but I had to take this pain out of my soul. You must understand that if I didn't mention you anything in the past, it was because I was really scared and I had to secure my personal future. While writing you this letter, I am full of terror, thinking of all the possible scenarios that could follow this letter, to be prepared for the worst. I've learned a lot of myself during the last 6 years of my life, and this is the conclusion I've reached: either I do this, or let my life to go downhill until everything gets out of control and I end up hurting myself.
Take your time please, I am willing to answer any question you have regarding this issue, but I beg you please: be patient, do not reaction immediately, think about things carefully and calm down before replying to me.
Thank you for listening to me.
With love...
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Bump n_n
BTW,
Regarding hormones. There is a new movement called, "informed consent". It basically allows the patient to make mature decisions for themselves once they have all the facts about HRT.
Here in Chicago, the Howard Brown Center has a program that fast tracks the gatekeeper function, and provides doctors to monitor your blood work.
Let's rewind history a bit. Can you imagine needing to see a therapist for months or years in order to go on birth control? As long as you are self identified female, no one should have the right to tell you how to live your life nor prevent you from needed medical care. I think therapy is wonderful to deal with issues like telling your family, or overcoming their loss or hostility. However, therapy should not trump or delay important medical intervention.
That's my two cents. Congrats on your coming out and doing what you need to do for yourself.
I think your letter is just fine.
It says everything you want and has a lot of detail. It is also reassuring and positive.
You know your dad, of course so you know what he will read.
Really wishing you all the best.
Hi,
I am a 64 year old MTF transgender, and really can't tell any one what to do. What I do know that things do not get better with time. The longer yu wait the more legal papers and transcripts pile up with yur male identity, job references view yu as male, long term emotional friendship relationships become more complicated and there are more people to consider. Brothers, sisters, cousins, etc grow up and have spouses and children who see yu as a male. Yu build employment experience as a male, and how do yu write up yur resume. Being born in the 1940s most of my choices were made for me because social pressure was enormous and I was just a small town country kid. Just do what yu need to do for yurself. But remember life gets more complex as yu get older and change never becomes easier.
Iceprincess,
your letter moved me to tears because I too haven't come out to my dad yet and doing so would mean so much to me.
I think your letter is written well, assertive and considerate.
Don't try to rewrite things and polish it too much or it could lose its spontaneous quality.
I wish you courage and luck <3
Quote from: michelle on October 03, 2010, 08:21:58 PM
Hi,
I am a 64 year old MTF transgender, and really can't tell any one what to do. What I do know that things do not get better with time. The longer yu wait the more legal papers and transcripts pile up with yur male identity, job references view yu as male, long term emotional friendship relationships become more complicated and there are more people to consider. Brothers, sisters, cousins, etc grow up and have spouses and children who see yu as a male. Yu build employment experience as a male, and how do yu write up yur resume. Being born in the 1940s most of my choices were made for me because social pressure was enormous and I was just a small town country kid. Just do what yu need to do for yurself. But remember life gets more complex as yu get older and change never becomes easier.
Have to agree. The most complicated hurdle/barrier for me is the relationships I have. There aren't that many, they took so long to develop. Besides, even if I were confident enough to start again, I'd prefer to die than hurt any of those people.
That isn't to say that older people shouldn't change, each of us must take our own decisions.
I've made some final adjustments to the mail, my precalc teacher helped me with it.
I'm sending it this Wednesday at 5:30pm (GMT -6). Wish me luck! x.x
good luck hon!
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 04, 2010, 07:58:36 PM
I've made some final adjustments to the mail, my precalc teacher helped me with it.
I'm sending it this Wednesday at 5:30pm (GMT -6). Wish me luck! x.x
We're rooting for you.
However this turns out, you've done the right thing here. That can only be positive.
Iceprincess. nice long letter but! can you change the paragraph that starts 'The change process is complicated to read I have to not YOU have to?
Change all the You's to I's so it reads better and lets him see you are the one making the changes and putting the process into action.
Good luck.
Just one last question... Is my letter expressing enough feelings? Is it emotive enough?
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 11:09:17 AM
Just one last question... Is my letter expressing enough feelings? Is it emotive enough?
That really depneds upon your relationship with your dad.
But I would say that it is just right.
lovely letter and the ending should show them you care about their feelings.
good luck
Sent already...
Too late for regrets.
I hope everything goes well...
EDIT: I got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me! :D
Quote from: ggina on October 01, 2010, 02:19:21 PM
hmm, maybe they want to take some kind of revenge or something? :) I know it sounds stupid but if they don't like someone (for whatever reason), the best possible thing to do is to torture them... yeah it seems you have to leave that doc for good.
g
Gina, I agree with you one-hundred percent. I think that's EXACTLY why they do this. They think they know more about this condition than we do. Wrong. They think they're smarter than we are. Generally not. They think we're pathological. Nope.
People are people, and even if they have fancy degrees and lots of money, they still have predjudices. We transpeople often take the brunt of these predjudices. Sure, they'll treat us, but many of them think we're freaks and weirdos. Take our money ... and then torture us. A--holes, IMHO.
Sometimes, you just have to shop around until you find a therapist who treats you with respect and dignity. In the end, remember fellow transfolks, YOU ARE THE BOSS! You give your orders with your payment to them. The Golden Rule: She (he) who has the gold makes the rules. Don't like a therapist. Can 'em and get one you like. Yeah, I'm miffed. Sorry. I've been treated shabbily by therapists and get upset when I see other people get treated this way by them.
QuoteI got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me!
Iceprincess, that's great!
Jillieann
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 04:44:38 PM
Sent already...
Too late for regrets.
I hope everything goes well...
EDIT: I got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me! :D
Cool cool cool. Iceprincess
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 04:44:38 PM
Sent already...
Too late for regrets.
I hope everything goes well...
EDIT: I got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me! :D
Awesome! Best news ever ... good for you!
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 04:44:38 PM
Sent already...
Too late for regrets.
I hope everything goes well...
EDIT: I got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me! :D
You are so lucky I'm happy for you.
Yay! :eusa_clap: I'm so happy for you. It's good you were able to send the letter. I hope that everything will go well for you from here on out. :)
- Kate
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 04:44:38 PM
Sent already...
Too late for regrets.
I hope everything goes well...
EDIT: I got a call from my dad 3 hours ago...
He wants to talk with me in person but, in short words, he said he's gonna support me! :D
Wow. That is wonderful news.
bye
Iceprincess, hell girl you look dam good to me! I just wanted to tell you that!!!!
Quote from: Izumi on September 17, 2010, 12:28:05 PM
#9) unless your date is another woman, THE GUY ALWAYS PAYS! because they dont need 2 hours to get ready, 200+ dollars in cosmetics, or a closet full of shoes and cloths.
i could write more but i will stop there.
Interesting logic there.. the girl elects to do something optional then has the guy subsidies it with food discounts. ::)
If you feel you "need" all of that, that's not the guys problem.
But we're getting all pretty for him, Ashley. :icon_chick:
- Kate
Quote from: Iceprincess on October 05, 2010, 04:44:38 PMI got a call from my dad 3 hours ago.... he's gonna support me! :D
That's GREAT!