Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: iris1469 on September 27, 2010, 11:35:13 PM

Title: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: iris1469 on September 27, 2010, 11:35:13 PM
HHmmm, now I have heard a lot of differing things in terms of definition....but I want to talk about this. I see the word transsexual in a lot of places that i believe should have the word transgender....makes sense right? I mean people are forever confusing gender identity with sexual preference. And because we are transitioning from one gender to another i think that transgender is more fitting...........Is a transsexual basically a gunslinger??? HHmmm
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: kyril on September 27, 2010, 11:49:30 PM
"Transsexual" isn't about sexual preference, it's about sexual identity. In theory, "transsexual" refers to people who have body (especially genital) dysphoria and want SRS, while "transgender" refers to people who have gender role dysphoria or are gender-nonconforming in some way without body dysphoria. (There's a grey area, it's hard to effectively categorize trans people who want physical transition but not SRS)

Now, personally, I tend to call myself transgender because I think "transsexual" is an ugly word. But I'm abusing the language when I do it.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Janet_Girl on September 27, 2010, 11:50:14 PM
Transgender is an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Where as Transsexual is a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

While some may feel that they think transgender is a better term, the label that we are given is Transsexual.  I, myself, use them interchangeably depending who I am talking to.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Asfsd4214 on September 28, 2010, 01:04:25 AM
The general feeling is that transexual is someone who identifies with a gender apart from the one assigned as birth. And transgender is an umbrella term for various forms of gender variance.


In Australia I've found transgender to be more synonymous with transexual.

In real life I don't care and think everyone would be better off not worrying about stupid terminology.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Cruelladeville on September 28, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
I have a problem with the 'trans' part...  :-\

As once you be decades post-op, and fully 100% legally female as I be...

Then its a redundant adjunct..... I'm not between anything or traveling somewhere....anywhere?

I arrived long ago baby.....lol
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Fencesitter on September 28, 2010, 01:10:41 AM
In Germany, we have dozens of very different definitions of the term "transgender", which sucks. Therefore, I use "transsexual" though this gets easily confused with a sexual orientation.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Angela on September 28, 2010, 01:23:37 AM
Pretty much the same story here in Greece , they know the meaning of the word transexual but not transgender.  :'( So thats what I go with.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Nigella on September 28, 2010, 08:45:47 AM
Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 28, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
I have a problem with the 'trans' part...  :-\

As once you be decades post-op, and fully 100% legally female as I be...

Then its a redundant adjunct..... I'm not between anything or traveling somewhere....anywhere?

I arrived long ago baby.....lol

Totally agree Cruelladeville,

I am "WOMAN", legally, emotionally, physiologically and as far as medically possible, physically.

I never liked either word, transsexual or transgender, but if pushed while transitioning I'd say, "transgender" because of the sex bit.

Stardust
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Dana Lane on September 28, 2010, 09:23:40 AM
I am a transsexual woman. If I were a 'transgender woman' it could mean I was a transsexual or maybe a crossdresser..or maybe a drag king, etc.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: iris1469 on September 28, 2010, 10:34:39 AM
Well me personally, I prefer and refer to myself as a transgender. In my mind a crossdresser is one gender by day and the other by night,,,,a drag king or queen performs on stage, I dont.....but thats just me
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: lilacwoman on September 28, 2010, 12:44:15 PM
if ever the conversation got round to it I'd prefer to be called a transsesxual than a transgender as practically everyone is familiar with the idea of a TS being one sex then changing to the other while transgender conjures up images of things in freak shows or jerry Springer - same thing?
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: iris1469 on September 28, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: lilacwoman on September 28, 2010, 12:44:15 PM
if ever the conversation got round to it I'd prefer to be called a transsesxual than a transgender as practically everyone is familiar with the idea of a TS being one sex then changing to the other while transgender conjures up images of things in freak shows or jerry Springer - same thing?

I love you, but we are exactly opposite. I believe that the term transexual conjurs up freak shows and/or jerry springer

lol But thats me!!! How are you today?
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Karla on September 28, 2010, 01:57:21 PM
Some (most?) people honestly don't know the difference between the 2 terms, or don't care to know.

I dislike categories but if your were trying to define me I guess I am specifically TS but that implies TG too, at least according to The definition..
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: tracya1980 on September 28, 2010, 02:28:41 PM
I really get tired of being labeled.  For the record, I personally believe that transgender would be correct.  So what does that make me now?  A post op transgender or transsexual???!!  No, I am a woman.  I have always felt like a girl and thought like a girl and now I have the body parts to match.  So out with the labels, they are discriminatory!!!  Except for my fiancĂ©, nobody where I live knows that I used to have male parts and that is the way I intend it to be.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Kay on September 28, 2010, 03:13:02 PM
I'll second what Kyril said. 

Because we're all lumped together under the "LGBT" label....or roughly "Homosexual, Bisexual, Transexual"....The third one can get confused with the first two.  (Homo- Bi- or Hetero- being about sexual attraction and the act of sex.  Trans- being about the physical equipment itself with absolutely nothing to do with sexual attraction or the act of sex.
.
I personally prefer Transgender, but I'll use Transexual if I need to...with some extra explanation regarding some of the incorrect associations that have been attached to the term.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: K8 on September 28, 2010, 06:31:26 PM
I believe that transsexual is a subset of transgender, therefore all transsexuals are transgendered but not all transgendered people are transsexuals.  TS is a specific kind of TG.

In the beginning I used TG when explaining myself, because I didn't want to put sex into the mind of the person I was talking to.  I had to explain what I meant a few times, but mostly it worked well.

I have pretty much completed transition, but I am still trans because I have transitioned, moving from living in the world as a man to living as the woman I am and always have been.

JMHO

- Kate
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Vanessa_yhvh on September 28, 2010, 06:36:52 PM
At this point, I use "trans" a lot. Saves some headaches.

But I've also elaborated in YouTube videos aimed at locals, as well as in conversation, that I am transitioning with the goal of living my life as a woman. In the several months that I have been going through this locally, nobody has ever expressed the slightest interest in which term I use to refer to my situation.

When I deem it appropriate, I elaborate that I identify as a genderqueer individual who happens to be transitioning MTF.

I have more or less gotten over my aversion to the word transsexual, although I found it troubling for quite a while.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Shang on September 28, 2010, 06:44:52 PM
My psychology teacher would say a person who is transgendered identifies as a gender that does not correspond with their sex while a transsexual is a person who has undergone surgery so their sex matches their gender (what they identify as).  My psychology teacher uses "sex" as meaning your physical characteristics while "gender" is what's between your ears.  I generally use the terms in that way because it's what I was taught in my freshman year of college so I say I'm transgendered and not transsexual because I haven't undergone the surgery to become male in body.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: glendagladwitch on September 28, 2010, 09:09:54 PM
Quote from: superkitty036 on September 28, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
I love you, but we are exactly opposite. I believe that the term transexual conjurs up freak shows and/or jerry springer

lol But thats me!!! How are you today?

The word police are saying that "transgender" should not be used as a noun, and I tend to agree.  So "transgender person" or "transgender woman" is more politically correct than "a transgender."  But whatever.  "Transman" or "transwoman" seems to be most common for transitioners to use to refer to themselves, in my experience.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Jillieann Rose on September 28, 2010, 09:16:54 PM
I agree with Tracya I'm a women and I don't like any other term.
Maybe I still have some wrong parts, but I'm working on it.
Jillieann
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Lacey Lynne on September 28, 2010, 11:18:13 PM
Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 28, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
I have a problem with the 'trans' part...  :-\

As once you be decades post-op, and fully 100% legally female as I be...

Then its a redundant adjunct..... I'm not between anything or traveling somewhere....anywhere?

I arrived long ago baby.....lol

Rock on, girl ... rock on!   Love your attitude!  Wish I could say the same thing.  We're very happy for you!    :)
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Sinnyo on September 29, 2010, 04:15:22 AM
I too quite hate the sound of "transsexual". It does sound similar to homo- and bisexual, but I don't think people see that as misleading. It's the presence of "sexual" which unnerves me, because my transition's less about my body and more about the relationships I want to have. Sexual organs are just a stepping stone, and one that all trans folk need not clear; "transsexual" brings up a very clear mental image, of a stereotype I'm trying to put out of my mind while I figure out what I need.

"Transgender" feels nicer, so I use that or "trans". Honestly though, I hope the names change some day. As I understand it, they're clumsy labels first applied by urologists endocrinologists rather than psychologists anyway. Not that I can cite that. ;)

Edit: Thanks for the correction, K8!
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: lilacwoman on September 29, 2010, 04:21:20 AM
Quote from: superkitty036 on September 28, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
I love you, but we are exactly opposite. I believe that the term transexual conjurs up freak shows and/or jerry springer

lol But thats me!!! How are you today?

I'm actually getting quite excited about going for nose job on Saturday.   You look like a happy lady.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: K8 on September 29, 2010, 07:51:30 AM
Quote from: Gemma on September 29, 2010, 04:15:22 AM
As I understand it, they're clumsy labels first applied by urologists rather than psychologists anyway. Not that I can cite that. ;)

I believe that Harry Benjamin coined the term "transsexual".  My understanding is that the first time the word was used in print was his "The Transsexual Phenomenon," which was published in 1966.  He was primarily an endocrinologist.

- Kate
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: fluffynuf on September 29, 2010, 08:26:33 AM
I like to think of myself as a Woman with a trans history but dont realy care too much what people call me as long as they are nice to me
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Dana Lane on September 29, 2010, 08:29:47 AM
Quote from: superkitty036 on September 28, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
I love you, but we are exactly opposite. I believe that the term transexual conjurs up freak shows and/or jerry springer

lol But thats me!!! How are you today?

In the US Transsexual is an actual diagnosis. I never thought of what I describe myself as to be a freak show. I have a frowny face. :(
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Bam on September 29, 2010, 12:11:15 PM
My GYN and my primary care Dr' as well as my Spouse get on me all the time they say i was a man then i transitioned now i am a Woman. According to them the only point i was trans was when i was in between the two when you are done with surgery's etc. then you are a woman period!!!!
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: JennX on September 29, 2010, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: tracya1980 on September 28, 2010, 02:28:41 PM
I really get tired of being labeled.  For the record, I personally believe that transgender would be correct.  So what does that make me now?  A post op transgender or transsexual???!!  No, I am a woman.  I have always felt like a girl and thought like a girl and now I have the body parts to match.  So out with the labels, they are discriminatory!!!  Except for my fiancĂ©, nobody where I live knows that I used to have male parts and that is the way I intend it to be.

I agree with this.

I hear the terms used more and more interchangeably today by docs, nurses, other medical peeps, and other "transgendered persons". ;) I prefer the term "transgendered" as it takes the "sex" out of it, which sort of dilutes and clouds the true nature of the issue at hand, which has nothing to with "sex" in the common form.
;D
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: kyril on September 29, 2010, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Bam on September 29, 2010, 12:11:15 PM
My GYN and my primary care Dr' as well as my Spouse get on me all the time they say i was a man then i transitioned now i am a Woman. According to them the only point i was trans was when i was in between the two when you are done with surgery's etc. then you are a woman period!!!!
I don't like this view because it implies that my identity changes in response to external factors, when in fact my identity is stable and it's my body that's changing.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Lacey Lynne on September 29, 2010, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: K8 on September 29, 2010, 07:51:30 AM
I believe that Harry Benjamin coined the term "transsexual".  My understanding is that the first time the word was used in print was his "The Transsexual Phenomenon," which was published in 1966.  He was primarily an endocrinologist.

- Kate

Absolutely correct and accurate, Kate!  Above all, he was reputedly a very compassionate and humane doctor.  Who better to be the trail-blazing pioneer than somebody like that?  Harry Benjamin also prescribed hormone replacement therapy and approved surgery (actually, his younger partner did this part) for Renee Richards, the historical transsexual I admire the most.  What a guy.  R.I.P., Dr. Benjamin.    :'(
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: K8 on September 30, 2010, 08:17:07 AM
When I was coming out to people and in the early stages, I used the term "transgendered".  Now I usually use the term "transsexual".  I've changed my sex from male to female.  My gender has stayed pretty much the same (woman) even though my gender presentation changed.

Because I lived so much of my life male and now live female, I still consider myself a transsexual.  That part of my identity is becoming less important as I settle into my post-op life.  I am also a widow.  That was an important part of my identity in the months after my spouse died.  Now, over three years later, it is less important but it is still an experience that shaped who and what I am.  I am also a veteran - important soon after leaving the service but less so now in defining who I am. 

If we live long enough we gather a lot of footnotes about who we are.  They help define us in large and small ways.  One of my footnotes is that I was male and lived as a man but now am female and live as a woman.  It's just one small part of who I am, but I wouldn't be who I am without that experience.

- Kate
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: niamh on September 30, 2010, 05:31:10 PM
As a pre-transition MTF I see myself as a 'trans woman' but if I do ever arrive at the other side I'll regard myself as a 'woman (with a trans history)'. If I was to label myself as a 'trans woman' post-transition it would only be in the sense that I am also an Irish woman, European, vegan, athetist. It would just be an attribute.

In the strictist sense though, one can longer be transsexual if they have already transitioned. They can however still be transgendered if they are still a member of the community and/or transcend traditional gender boundaries as seen by cis-society.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: April Dawne on September 30, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
I'm going to throw my opinion out there and say that I don't really use either term. I simply tell people I am a trans woman. Once I am done transitioning, I will then simply be woman. When you say the word transsexual to the average person, their first thought is likely to be something other than what you mean. A lot of people out there as well are not familiar with transgender, and those that are I think are mostly aware that the term transgender does refer to anyone who is not a GUY that looks and acts like a GUY or a GIRL who looks and acts like a GIRL... according to established gender rules. In short, I think trans woman has a slightly less chance of conjuring up all sorts of nasty ideas in peoples heads and affords me the chance to explain what it means to ME to be a trans woman rather than a generalization of the term.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Lacey Lynne on September 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: AprilDawn on September 30, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
I'm going to throw my opinion out there and say that I don't really use either term. I simply tell people I am a trans woman. Once I am done transitioning, I will then simply be woman. When you say the word transsexual to the average person, their first thought is likely to be something other than what you mean.

April, this is excellent.  You know, you're right.  I never thought about it this way, but you are so right.  Actually, I'm going to start saying this too.  Heck, I would never have thought of it this way.  Thanks!  This really makes sense. 
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: Northern Jane on October 01, 2010, 04:24:40 AM
I was transsexual, more specifically Type VI by Dr. Benjamin's original classifications of 1966. I was a pathetic failure at pretending to be male and could pass for one even doing my best "boy mode" act. In girl mode, nobody thought twice - it was totally natural. For me "passing" ended when I stopped trying to be something I wasn't.

I see transsexual as being a sub-set of transgender (in today's parlance) but, personally, I still see Type VI transsexual as being a unique phenomenon because it is recognizable well before puberty and has definitive indicators.
Title: Re: Transsexual or transgender
Post by: April Dawne on October 01, 2010, 11:22:58 AM
You are more than welcome Lacey =] I've tried in the past using both terms, and a lot of people either didn't know what the words meant, or they had the absolutely wrong idea and god knows what they might have been thinking. There are those that hear transsexual and immediately think of a crossdressing fetishist that gets turned on by dressing, which we all know is far from the truth. I've found that "trans woman" is easier for people to grasp maybe because the words "sexual" and "gender" are not part of the description. I am a woman in transition, therefore I say trans woman. =]