I guess this is as good a place for this question as any. My question is: how does on cope with not transitioning despite badly wanting to?
I have told details about my situation before in other parts of this great website but seeing as I am still a newbie here I thought I would briefly give them here now. The reason I am not transitioning despite wanting to is that I have a loving partner who accepts me totally for the woman I am and is willing to stand by my side in tick and thin. She doesn't care what body parts I have or what gender presentation I give out and someone like that is few and far between. She's a real keeper. The reason she understands me so well is that she is a little gender-queer herself and has herself gone through the whole 'finding yourself phase' as regards gender and sexuality. She's identified at various times of her life as ftm, lesbian, tomboy, androgyne so she knows better than anyone else around me how it feels to be me, a woman presenting as a man.
However, it would be unfair to take all this support she gives me and not give something back in return. We both want kids and the best way to get them is to do it the old fashioned way. So I wait until the time is right to have kids and when they have come I can finally start popping those pink pills.
When I was 19 and came out to my folks as trans I was sure that I would be living as a woman by my mid-twenties. I mean, for a 19 year old, half a decade is a loooong time. However, it's true what they say, life never works out exactly as you think it would. I found the love of my life but it came at the cost of post-poning my transition.
I read about all the men and women who are getting on with their transitions and the rest of their life and I am so happy for them and I'd like nothing more than to join them but I can't right now and it makes me a little sad. (Actually, it makes me a great lot sad.) Of course, I am so grateful that I have found someone so loving and accepting. It's just that I'd love to have it all. I know, I am being greedy.
So, is there anyone here that intends to transition but can't right now despite wanting to? How do you cope with the every day? I would love suggestions and advice because it's getting to a point where I am being driven up the wall.
Not easy.
I tend to avoid synthetic drugs and operations, so that kind of speaks for itself.
Talk to people whoever they are and accept them... helps. I find it difficult here on susan's. actually. Not many sites do actually accept intersexuals... as they always seem to lean them into trans-something. The technical debate over gender and sex was really depressing. Being told how I failed this way or that way didn't help either.
Just wanted something more peaceful then having to get surgery to be a part of anything.
I'm not dead yet...
I don't plan to transition or take hormones but I am very happy as I am. My spouse knows about me and I will share with her about my being transsexual very soon. I will see a therpist in the near future.
I have felt this way for a long time and I don't feel that I need to transition in order to be happy. If you ever feel that you need to, go for it. I applaud you and support you.
Gennee
niamh
In many ways, my own life is like yours.
One the one hand, I'm held back by an astonishingly patient and understanding wife. She is not unlike me but has a family who just wouldn't understand.
On the other, I know who I am.
I chose my wife. I have already given her my life. It's hers.
I can exprss myself, emotionally and mentally, with complete freedom to her. I have no interest in attracting anyone else.
One day, I would like to have the ugly bits removed. But she is my life. Susans' is my outlet.
That's my perspective.
I had a few years ago, a boyfriend that saw me as a lady. I never came out to him, but it was unnecessary because he saw through me. He really was a gentleman for me, and we loved each other a lot.
I think if it had worked out, I wouldn't transition. Having a person who loved me and saw me as a woman was really special, and I think I would have not taken these steps. Still, I have the feeling that if I did, he would have accepted it.
I whine mostly. Whine and never look down and pretend I look male and everyone around me is mentally retarded. Healthy? Of course not. I don't much care at this point though, it's working enough for me to function.
lots of fudgesicles
I also have someone in my life (starting our 14th year together) that I think I would rather keep then transition. She knows how I feel though doesn't fully understand because she's one of those girls that can't stand most aspects of being a female but wouldn't ever consider transition an option.
I only know how to cope on a day to day basis (those can even fail sometimes), and those skills are different for different people in my opinion (though the fudgesicle is a universal coping skill for many people).
your not alone.
I had to wait a few years due to medical constraints. I didn't cope well at all. But I knew what was coming if I just continued to take my meds and get better. I didn't lose hope.
Niamh, do you have a sort of time frame for when you can begin? Number of kids to have, etc? Sometimes that helps.
I should think that if you actually plan to transition after meeting certain goals, your coping mechanisms would be somewhat different from the set you would need if you had decided to never transition at all. So I'm with Nero. Set up goals, timetables. If you're not in therapy, think about whether it would help you at this point. Support groups might be helpful or not, depending on people's attitudes. Keep reminding yourself that you WILL transition--just not yet. Keep reminding yourself WHY you're not transitioning yet, and keep telling yourself how happy you'll be when you do. But try not to focus too much on the transition as destination; think of the whole thing as a process. Family first, transition second. You will get what you want eventually. Perhaps adopt a daily mantra that keeps you on track. Maybe meditate?
Thanks everyone for your help. Reading it all has made me feel much better! :)
Quote from: Arch on October 10, 2010, 11:19:44 PM
I should think that if you actually plan to transition after meeting certain goals, your coping mechanisms would be somewhat different from the set you would need if you had decided to never transition at all. So I'm with Nero. Set up goals, timetables. If you're not in therapy, think about whether it would help you at this point. Support groups might be helpful or not, depending on people's attitudes. Keep reminding yourself that you WILL transition--just not yet. Keep reminding yourself WHY you're not transitioning yet, and keep telling yourself how happy you'll be when you do. But try not to focus too much on the transition as destination; think of the whole thing as a process. Family first, transition second. You will get what you want eventually. Perhaps adopt a daily mantra that keeps you on track. Maybe meditate?
Thanks Arch! Lot's of nice ideas and tips in there.
Quote from: Nero on October 10, 2010, 04:29:43 PM
Niamh, do you have a sort of time frame for when you can begin? Number of kids to have, etc? Sometimes that helps.
That's a good point. We plan to have our first at this time two years from now. We'd really like to have two kids and with two years inbetween that sees me starting transition at this time four years. I'll be soon 30 at that time. So yah, 4 years from now. I can make it :)
Quote from: perlita85 on October 10, 2010, 04:00:58 PM
Would I do it again, I mean delay the transition, yes, yes, yes, a million yes, becaouse out our marriage 4 wonderful children exist in my life.
The idea of having a family sustains me also.
Quote from: LivingInGrey on October 10, 2010, 03:37:28 PM
your not alone.
It helps somewhat to tell myself that.
Quote from: gennee on October 09, 2010, 03:34:36 PM
I have felt this way for a long time and I don't feel that I need to transition in order to be happy. If you ever feel that you need to, go for it. I applaud you and support you.
Thanks Gennee.
I have a situation similar to yours, though I am much older. Hormones, support from wife, and having a bit of money, keep me going. My financial situation would change dramatically if I transition. I do just enough to keep under the "unacceptable bar", which has gotten higher since I have been pushing on it a bit. My personal experience with people in my ts support group is that transition turns into a disaster, at least financially. Out of four, none kept the job they thought was theirs for over 4 months. That tends to produce bad vibes and shocks to relationships, no matter how strong they are, which then go down hill. If I could retire with a bit extra I might attempt it.
Recently, "in transition" is how a close individual described me to another. Surprised me since I'm just being me. My smile in return was probably unexpected. :D
About the same time, in a repurposed fashion technicality, I explained I have no intimates. "Remember that royal purple teddy at the thrift store we found when we looked for a... "
*blank stare*
Said to self, "maybe a picture would help." Goggle'd the phrased, and the first image popped up just fit the moment.... (I shouldn't link it yet I'll link this one...)
http://depthperception.deviantart.com/art/Twinkles-and-her-gourd-housie-70740404 (http://depthperception.deviantart.com/art/Twinkles-and-her-gourd-housie-70740404)
Hmmm.... The words "fashion" and "technical", used together, may inspire some unbelievable localizations in non-genderized words, as already experienced by those thought such opposites exists in the social/anti-social imaginary divide. (/me makes sure to somehow reiterate this imagination somehow in chit chat).
If like me, I get overly quiet when stuck in a zombie-lala-land. An easy target, that moment, of all others, just for someone else to claim "nothing has changed." For the figure-of-speech (auditory) types that want to understand how this is coping either-way, just imagine someone described me as "possibly and very improbably loud". ("Computer, initiate diagnoses on this memory upload, especially try to recollected every perspective just to live immersed in each moment, as somebody might get curious enough. And, Computer, attempt to augment their reality to be more sensitive.")
*hugs available where appropriate*
"Life is a journey..." or maybe a told story... it sinks in eventually... pm me anytime otherwise for odd wisdom ;D
Another thing. Before I started HRT, I talked as if I wasn't in transition yet. My therapist corrected me and said that I had started my transition. My mind was made up, I was making certain changes in my life, my mindset was different.
So you might want to think of yourself as in transition right now. You just haven't gotten to the HRT stage yet.
Could you maybe start electrolysis, or something like that? Or have you already?
Quote from: Arch on October 11, 2010, 02:36:50 PM
Another thing. Before I started HRT, I talked as if I wasn't in transition yet. My therapist corrected me and said that I had started my transition. My mind was made up, I was making certain changes in my life, my mindset was different.
So you might want to think of yourself as in transition right now. You just haven't gotten to the HRT stage yet.
Could you maybe start electrolysis, or something like that? Or have you already?
That's an interesting take on the whole issue. We seem to be caught up on transition as a physical thing but it has psychological beginnings. Seeing it like that, I
have already started and have been in transition for 5 years now. Electrolysis
is on the cards. I just have to gather the money together for it. Thanks for that. Made me smile.
This remembers me of what my therapist told me.
He went and said I was too focused on the physical aspects of things, to the point that being refered to with male pronouns didn't bother me. Anyway, myself, I am not on HRT yet, I don't know when I am starting, but I am transitioning. Working on your voice is transitioning and electrolosys too.
Even learning how to dress or walk on heels is transitioning. So I think anything you do towards that goal counts, and focusing that one day you will achieve it does helps a lot.
When I have my anxiety and depression attacks I try to focus that one day this will all be different and I will be actually living. If I don't do it I go into some sort of pit that is hard to climb out of. So, just the perspective of being a woman one day is soothing for me.
I hope what I said is helpful :) peace.
I agree with what Maiara and Arch are saying here...
The fact that you are even considering any aspect of transition means you are in a form of transition.
Stopping the GID monster seems to be almost impossible, so coping is more common .. we feed it scraps to keep it quiet, without ever really knowing how big it is growing in the background ... Like any good monster, the more we feed it the faster it is likely to grow until it devours us.
Finding the right balance to buy time is highly individual, and a therapist can often lend a steadying hand in the process.
Good Luck niamh
:icon_hug:
Chrissty
This feels to me more of a discrete sense into gender and sex differences among us. How many feel there are more senses than differences? Deeper look... (consider this my long blog for the day i said i write yesterday...)
If there were more perceived differences than senses, that's just like declared overloaded.
By any kind of transition there are patterns of these differences. They may have never ended. There may have been no start.
Someone is "in between" two genders/sex.
Someone else is "among" other genders/sex.
I've noticed some habits in people where they pull out the dictionary, look up the first definition, and seem to have an attitude the dictionary is authority and everything else to argue is semantics. To take every word I've known and grew up with and to try to put them in some other non-"technical" yet beautiful, pretty, soft, delicate, subtle, calm, tropical, solid dirt words is like, like, like a constant argument with myself. We could double-entry audit the minutes that go by as any improvement made today seems the only improve needed. "Think; don't think." "Try to think 5 seconds more." There's difference! We live in a world where the words are black and white and do not seem always in color. "Think!" There is no dictionary that says "Now in color!" Or, "now in C#!" My my not so naive knowledge of the environment is an easy target to abuse, so these discrete infinitesimal differences in sense need differences to sort them, instantly. Logic instances where everything physical about them is crystallized. Works, and executes! Science of Execution 101... 1) kill; 2) "think outside the" sphere to not be killed. Wake up one day and overcome that thought to stand up and smile. We thought about this and decided among an ordinary experience. When all is possible and you know there is no mistake but what I mean by "alive", I am nothing. That finite universe we experience of an ordinary world here, there, is the only dictionary I had to know. Each age is more chance at the ordinary. There is no purpose. Maybe choose one if you get bored and know there is a reason to write... and write. Look how much they wrote in the dictionary, and they don't need them all in there with every possible combination of suffix and prefix. They could list the root words, and then list any special exceptions to how the prefixes and suffixes augments the word tenses. Student government my think they have something to say if the scientists over in the agriculture wanted a debate the English language as an object oriented environment. Weeee, havne't done a long paragraph like this for awhile. It's here, the dictionary. Words are delineated by space. These are shorter words. Genetic DNA sequences reveal much more then 1, 2, 3, no don't have to count beyond, it wasn't instant like something from nothing. If people are alive then maybe they might choose their gender as space. Testimony of another virgin dictionary far, far, away in that down to Earth nature.
"As i will not be a master; as i will not be a slave; that's is my idea of democracy."
Wait, that's an example of an easy to make someone feel like they failed. Quickened, mental abilities should at least sense a difference. Call these abilities common sense, or maybe call them based on unique discovery, or let who is alive choose. If there are 100 years thought normal in an ordinary life, each year pi something around, then the days are your flavor. Every day, whoever says "fail" to another should fail themselves. Two wrongs make a single fail. Even undirected, then fail undirected. Maybe doesn't seem to mean anything to you this life, yet there is someone here that knows everything means something.
Even nothing.
I think that's what I consider my main gender... nothing. Like space... without the universe... no... beyond that. Whatever happened that made me look at so many perspectives about this helps others reflect on each other and somewhere in there is me. There are very weighty sense of who I am, so I find it hard to agree with being confused. Now I do get confused, like I said above, easy target. Nothing doesn't transition to something, as here is an example of a common thing. Sense of nothing. Let's not wonder who is gonna ask "how did you learn that." Been there done did.
From nothing, two paths that I like to keep some kind of meaning are the colors pink and blue. This can't simple be called useful. This is beautiful and the word useful is only +1 beautiful and beautiful words are +1!
I doubt anybody would want to make "auditory" and "visual" into genders, yet I can't deny possibilities of how this happens. This is the infinite mind with mental quickness of an instant. Only imagine the gender seen as to cure blindness or deafness. That is not cool or fashionable. I'm gonna assume there is truth that a scientist in the agricultural field does care if you think nature influenced your identity where you felt you needed as choice.
That's life as a gift, and someone ignored someone. Let's not let whatever end you need to define be the absolute end of all. Doesn't happen. What happens is this nothing thinks of something, and it happens like that to bring you into this world and out of this world. We can all do this in an ordinary way, ....
... some find that ordinary near absolute impossible. This close! "Be natural" heard. Ok, new challenge, taken, all is possible. Done. Whatever "anything" you wished from me is possible, yet don't think death or absolute destruction. Science, you can't prove life until you prove death. We don't die; I can say in this ordinary way. If you really want to prove it...
... or cope ...
... find your own will to live.
This means this much to me... virginity. The virtue of virginity is not easy to do ordinarily. This virtue is here in this infinite chaos. We know this because we found balance.
We found balance with a one time simple quest of virtue. "Can you hold onto this much for me?"
Have you ever held onto nothing? I am nothing.
Every word here positive... I'll prove it with every motherly instinct that's either just me or somehow is mine. I'm scared. Be scared. Live the moment. Those senses, and differences, are needed.
These words... from my heart. Parents get to talk life story to their kids. These stories that I have to share no body seemed there to listen. I hate these moments where truth becomes lost truth. That's my drama. Recover lost truth. This is no ordinary love. The infinite possibility there never was such biology. Somehow biotechnology would seem affected. Stupidest idea ever... breath heavily and hard if heart stops. Proven... ticks again. I know the difference between stupid and dumb. Being stupid is a cure to dumbness. Let's not get too carried away, as hard to talk around the sense of sex. Take that affect and this affect and a tree doesn't seem to let me feel so alone.
If there was no change there would be no physical existence. "Do you have an opinion? A mind of your own?" -- garbage
Quote from: spacial on October 10, 2010, 06:58:30 AM
niamh
In many ways, my own life is like yours.
One the one hand, I'm held back by an astonishingly patient and understanding wife. She is not unlike me but has a family who just wouldn't understand.
On the other, I know who I am.
I chose my wife. I have already given her my life. It's hers.
I can exprss myself, emotionally and mentally, with complete freedom to her. I have no interest in attracting anyone else.
One day, I would like to have the ugly bits removed. But she is my life. Susans' is my outlet.
That's my perspective.
This!!
Although my wife doesnt have any family besides her mum. My family would never understand.
Plus, communication is key, always ensure you both know how each other is feeling/coping.
...then there's the Arch method of coping, which I don't recommend: take anything trans and anything else that bothers you and stuff it in a box. Come out of the closet partway a couple of times and then go back in. After twenty years of active repression, come thiiiis close to exploding into a million pieces. Instead, crumble into forty-two pieces and spend years putting yourself back together.
Whatever you do, my dear, try not to do anything like this. Better to be in some pain but to address that pain head-on every day.
Take care.
*snif* thanks *snif*
Thanks Arch and everyone! You've made me feel much better with your words. :-*
When I started dating my boyfriend, I was very on-the-fence about my gender and things of that sort, so I didn't tell him about anything having to do with that and he just viewed me as a woman.
Once I felt comfortable enough with myself, I told him, and although he was a little thrown by it (He suspected but thought it was just him over thinking it) he accepted me completely as I am. He embraced the fact that I was a man, and told me he was there for me.
He views me as a male, but loves my body as a female, and they can go hand in hand with him. Because of this, and my fear of going under the knife, and of that kind of commitment, I have remained non op. Also, my mom doesn't know, and yeah, I would have some severe explaining to do. :D
It honestly eats me up every day that I can't look the way I want to, but I know that, as of right now, it's not the right thing for me. I'm still really young; I just started college. I want to have the freedom to feel comfortable should anything change with me. I also might want to have a child (awkward as a man, I know, but I want to have the option.).
Hmmmm, boyfriend, in college, willing to sacrifice immediate satisfaction for possible better future- sounds like you are coping very well indeed. You will have some dysphoria, some angst. While you are in college you can probably access therapists, meds, etc. Get your head right relatively inexpensively. Take advantage of everything you can and enjoy. You will have a long life, knowing what of it is worth.
My main coping mechanism has been just getting really comfortable with the fact that there's actually nothing "wrong" with me. I'm a unique individual and I'm lucky enough to have a partner who accepts me the way I am.
I put off my transition until after my grandfather died, because I was the only male in the family who had a career and a future and he was immensely proud of me.
It wasn't easy at all. It involved a lot of alcohol, a lot of sex with women who I wanted to BE rather than be with, a ton of escapism via video games, tabletop and LARP roleplaying, closet crossdressing and daydreaming about what life would be like after transition.
Probably the crossdressing helped the most - but it was also quite depressing having to go back to being male after the clothes came off.
Quote from: CaitJ on December 19, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Probably the crossdressing helped the most - but it was also quite depressing having to go back to being male after the clothes came off.
My therapist suggested that as a coping mechanism (and despite a past history that included that), my initial reaction is that it would just make the feelings worse right now becuse I would "just be a man in a dress".
Quote from: regan on December 19, 2010, 08:16:17 PM
My therapist suggested that as a coping mechanism (and despite a past history that included that), my initial reaction is that it would just make the feelings worse right now becuse I would "just be a man in a dress".
The ritualism of dressing up, doing makeup and having some 'girl time' to yourself can actually be very cathartic. I used to combine this with hanging out online in chat rooms where I was only known as female, or roleplaying female characters in online games and tell people that I was female IRL.
The escapism of falling into my female personalities took the edge off the 'man in a dress' feeling. One of the worst things you can do pre-transition is sit in front of a mirror for too long, as you fixate on your male features and catastrophise about your future ability to pass and compare yourself to other trans people.
In fact, comparing yourself to other trans women in later stages of transition is one of the most destructive things you can do - each person is totally unique and making comparisons will only make you feel ->-bleeped-<-ty about yourself.
How are you doing, Niamh?
Quote from: Arch on December 20, 2010, 01:37:33 AM
How are you doing, Niamh?
Thanks for asking! :)
All things considered I am doing well. I've no reason to complain. Lately I have been getting down a bit but I always find ways to cheer myself up and make myself look on the bighter side of everything. It's tough feeling like I am stuck in this inbetween world, of knowing that I want to present as female but having to 'keep up appearances' for the time being. But I will battle though as always and it will only make the day I find do start living as a woman all the more sweet. After all I can't put my life on hold just because of this one lil thing now can I? :) Thanks!
Hi Niamh, It appears to me that you are coping very well-considering. I have a wife and son at home who depend upon me to be who I am now. And I made a vow to be with my wife over twenty years ago and have not forgotten this even though it sometimes causes me pain. I just take one day at a time and try to not stress over those things that cause me pain or things that I can't readily change. When things get to where I am overly frustrated I go see my therapist and this has always helped.
Randi
I'm glad you're hanging in there, Niamh. You can always come to Susan's for some vibes. I hope we help some. :)
Yes, it certainly does help to come on here and know that there are so many people who are where I am or have been here and have come out the other side. That gives me hope. :D
Quote from: Randi on December 20, 2010, 04:10:34 PM
Hi Niamh, It appears to me that you are coping very well-considering. I have a wife and son at home who depend upon me to be who I am now. And I made a vow to be with my wife over twenty years ago and have not forgotten this even though it sometimes causes me pain. I just take one day at a time and try to not stress over those things that cause me pain or things that I can't readily change. When things get to where I am overly frustrated I go see my therapist and this has always helped.
Randi
Hi Randi, is transition on the books in the medium term?
Yah, I am coping well. You have to really, work, earn money, but food on the table. I have grown and changed so much in the last few years, ever since I first came out, and I know I am a better and stronger person. I have come to love myself and that is so important. Too many young trans people rush into the process without first coming to love and accept themselves.
I haven't completely ruled it out but realistically speaking-I don't see it happening. As long as I can carry on and keep things on an even keel (status quo) I will do this because to do otherwise would be financial ruin not only for me but for my family and I just can't do that to them. So, I can put what I would do about my gender issues aside for the greater good of all concerned. It isn't always easy but for now it works.
Randi
Quote from: Randi on December 22, 2010, 06:59:51 AM
I haven't completely ruled it out but realistically speaking-I don't see it happening. As long as I can carry on and keep things on an even keel (status quo) I will do this because to do otherwise would be financial ruin not only for me but for my family and I just can't do that to them. So, I can put what I would do about my gender issues aside for the greater good of all concerned. It isn't always easy but for now it works.
Randi
I admire that. I wish you all the best in that. :)
naimh
Didn't you use to have a rather nice avitar photo?
Apologies if i'm confusing you with someone else.
I'm surprised I've never responded to this post in the past. I'll make this fast:
1) I learned what triggered my gender dysphoria
2) I did my best to first avoid my triggers, then confront them one by one, learning to control the dysphoria from each
3) Because I'm not perfect at it, I still don't go places that too powerfully activate my triggers.
4) I never forget what condition I deal with or pretend it doesn't exist. I am open with all of those whom I can afford to be.
5) I have at least one confidant, in this case my wife, but also several friends. If I need to talk about how I feel, I have people I can.
That's how I make it. I can give more specific details if you'd like.
Quote from: interalia on December 22, 2010, 10:39:38 PM
I'm surprised I've never responded to this post in the past. I'll make this fast:
1) I learned what triggered my gender dysphoria
2) I did my best to first avoid my triggers, then confront them one by one, learning to control the dysphoria from each
3) Because I'm not perfect at it, I still don't go places that too powerfully activate my triggers.
4) I never forget what condition I deal with or pretend it doesn't exist. I am open with all of those whom I can afford to be.
5) I have at least one confidant, in this case my wife, but also several friends. If I need to talk about how I feel, I have people I can.
That's how I make it. I can give more specific details if you'd like.
I really don't like this 'trigger' business; it's treating GID like PTSD from rape.
Which I think is really, really wrong.
I find it really offensive in fact and would really like you to stop using that word in reference to GID.
Quote from: CaitJ on December 22, 2010, 10:42:12 PM
I really don't like this 'trigger' business; it's treating GID like PTSD from rape.
Which I think is really, really wrong.
I find it really offensive in fact and would really like you to stop using that word in reference to GID.
Trigger is a common psychological term not limited to PTSD from rape, though I'm sorry it offends. I refer to a trigger as something external that causes me to feel gender dysphoric. Perhaps there is a better, less offensive, word someone might suggest that still brings across the same meaning?
If there isn't a better word, you could always ignore my posts.
EDIT: I don't want to ignore the existence of my triggers - they help me to understand why I feel the way I do and what makes me feel that way. It also really helps me to change my response to those triggers so they become manageable. It would be irresponsible for me to not acknowledge them.
Quote from: Laura91 on December 22, 2010, 10:54:46 PM
That sounds like a more sensible idea instead of telling people what to post.
Perfect. I can smack-talk about people, then just tell them to ignore my posts. Brilliant!
We all have to deal with this in the way that is best for us. It is not the same for everybody and we really should try to be more tolerant of one anothers differences without trying to force our wants upon others who struggle from time to time too, (edited because I don't want to be offensive)
Interalia-I get what you said and relate totally. I appreciate your point of view and have learned a great deal from your previous posts-Thanks.
Randi
Quote from: Randi on December 22, 2010, 11:01:42 PM
We all have to deal with this in the way that is best for us. It is not the same for everybody and we really should try to be more tolerant of one anothers differences without trying to force our wants upon others who struggle from time to time too, (edited because I don't want to be offensive)
Interalia-I get what you said and relate totally. I appreciate your point of view and have learned a great deal from your previous posts-Thanks.
Randi
Thank you, Randi! I'm glad you've benefited from something I've said.
Quote from: spacial on December 22, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
naimh
Didn't you use to have a rather nice avitar photo?
Apologies if i'm confusing you with someone else.
No, you're right, I did. I took it down two days ago because I got tired of looking at it. The more I saw it the more I saw how male I looked in it. It's time for a new picture...maybe sometime in the new year.
And thanks for saying that it was nice. :)
Quote from: niamh on December 23, 2010, 01:39:02 AM
No, you're right, I did. I took it down two days ago because I got tired of looking at it. The more I saw it the more I saw how male I looked in it. It's time for a new picture...maybe sometime in the new year.
And thanks for saying that it was nice. :)
You most certainly didn't look male!!
But looking forward to another.
Quote from: niamh on October 09, 2010, 12:12:17 PM
The reason I am not transitioning despite wanting to is that I have a loving partner who accepts me totally for the woman I am and is willing to stand by my side in tick and thin. She doesn't care what body parts I have or what gender presentation I give out and someone like that is few and far between. She's a real keeper. The reason she understands me so well is that she is a little gender-queer herself and has herself gone through the whole 'finding yourself phase' as regards gender and sexuality. She's identified at various times of her life as ftm, lesbian, tomboy, androgyne so she knows better than anyone else around me how it feels to be me, a woman presenting as a man.
I hate to say this but I feel a slight logical inconsistency here - yes I understand you want children but sometimes in life we have to make compromises. I would like to be a published author, but I am recently coming to the conclusion that it probably wont happen and that I will almost certainly have to go back to doing something more normal - At least I have given it a good try.
In your shoes I would be looking towards immediate transition, surgery, and adoption later on.
Interalia talks about triggers and coping mechanisms which I personally find both interesting and yet also impractical, because the idea of triggers seems to imply that there are times for him when the dysphoria was/is not present. For me, and I suspect many others, there simply never were. To be alive was to be constantly dysphoric. Some aspects of it were partially relieved by transition, but others actually got a million times worse during the process.
The feelings only really fully changed when I finally awoke from surgery. So I am genuinely curious as to what it might have been like to have had such an intermittent quality to ones dysphoria. I suppose if you have an intermittent quality to the feelings then it might be possible to struggle on, but if not then I suggest that accepting the inevitable and finding a compromise solution will be a better option than driving yourself to some form of breakdown on the altar of these much longed for children.
Fate can be cruel like this and when you hope so much for something, and sacrifice so much to gain it, sometime fate has a nasty habit of finding a way to bitterly disappoint one. I hope and pray that this may not be your experience.
Quote from: rejennyrated on December 25, 2010, 04:02:56 AM
The feelings only really fully changed when I finally awoke from surgery. So I am genuinely curious as to what it might have been like to have had such an intermittent quality to ones dysphoria. I suppose if you have an intermittent quality to the feelings then it might be possible to struggle on, but if not then I suggest that accepting the inevitable and finding a compromise solution will be a better option than driving yourself to some form of breakdown on the altar of these much longed for children.
This struck me today when I was walking down the beach in my bikini for the first time ever. I'd always imagined that it would be an amazing moment and that I would feel immense euphoria and elation at being able to do this.
But instead it just felt normal.
Sure I was happy, but it was an ordinary happiness; a happiness that came from it being a warm Xmas day at the beach after a lovely Xmas lunch with my fiancé and his family.
I started to feel a little disappointed, then I realised that this is what I'd been seeking, that this is what I wanted from my transition.
To feel normal.
To not feel like a freak. To not hate my body. To not yearn to be somebody else.
That's why I transitioned. That's why I had surgery; not because it would feel great, but because it would stop me feeling like crap.
Thanks for that Jenny. Maybe you are right and I'd be better transitioning right now and adopting later. Maybe not. I don't think, however, that there is a one-size-fits-all as regards our paths to being who we are. Right now what I have decided and we are going to make a go of it. In life, as you said yourself, some times even the best of plans have problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to all decisions but I think the way I am going about it is the right decision for me and the positives outweight the negatives. I plan to start social and physical transitions as soon asthe kids have been born so that's not that far off. I am wait and busy myself with the other aspects of life that are important: education, career. There are plently of nights after to get glammed up and go partying!
Quote from: Vexing on December 25, 2010, 04:19:40 AM
I started to feel a little disappointed, then I realised that this is what I'd been seeking, that this is what I wanted from my transition.
To feel normal.
To not feel like a freak. To not hate my body. To not yearn to be somebody else.
That's why I transitioned. That's why I had surgery; not because it would feel great, but because it would stop me feeling like crap.
That's how I want it to be. I have come to understand that my life will not suddenly become all rosy and great after transition. It is no easier to be a woman than it is a man, all other things being equal. It's simply that I feel like a woman so I know I will be happier in society as one. That said, of course I will still have the difficulties of children, work, paying the bills, bad hair days...But I can do it with a smile and a litle bit more ease and confidence knowing that I am seen as a woman.
I think that believing that the green is always greener on the other side is a major reason why some people come to regret transition. Like with going on holidays, you have to drag yourself along there too. If you are miserable at home it's not all going to suddenly change on holidays.
Hi Niamh!
I made a vlog about this topic recently. I had a whole text written out in response and then I was like "Hey! Why don't I just post the video!" Basically, I think love and support from our community and loved ones is how you cope. It doesn't help people too much when they are made to feel like less or somehow other than everyone else. I think many times people who don't transition need more love and acceptance from our community, especially from people who have transitioned. It really isn't easy not transitioning judging from the people I've talked to. Our own journey to transition (for whatever reason) is not interwoven into other peoples' reason to transition.
I'm transitioned. My life is separate from yours but I can love you and support you, like I would anyone else who needs it, in whatever you do. So take a look, big hugs and do what you have to do to lay a foundation for happiness in your life, k? Don't ever, ever let anyone from here or anywhere else tell you what you should do, do what you have to do and feel confident in your decisions. No one else has walked in your shoes :) Meghan
Here's the video:
Love Everyone. Always (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2UZmZwNXGE#)
Thanks for your support Meghan! :icon_hug:
Z
As someone who is also relatively non-op I find it interesting that so many transitioned people find the need to tell those of us that we "have logical inconsistencies" or that while describing our feelings we are somehow talking "smack" about you. I almost get the feeling that those people have a bit of unfinished self acceptance over their own choices. I don't have any problem, in any way with the informed decision, after proper introspection, of someone to completely transition. I certainly hope that it is successful. My own personal analysis for myself, and my wife, is that it simply isn't appropriate at this time. If the collapse of 2008 had not occurred, then it might be, as we would have enough to retire or at least be able to fill the gap with side work. I find it very interesting to hear others' stories of how they cope, and think that this is an important sub-board for that. Now I could see how these views might be a little threatening to someone planning transition, threatening the united world view of "transition or Die!" But why are so many post-ops seemingly having problems? I don't think that I have read one non-op that was outwardly directing any negativity toward post-ops, but rather presenting inwardly felt fears, concerns, coping mechanisms, deal breaking family/job situations etc. etc. Poverty, loneliness, family isolation, loss of children are real, possible outcomes from transition. Sometimes they are probable, foreseeable results. The fact that one is unsure or refusing of surgery doesn't negate their transsexual nature. It only means that they are non-op for some reason.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on December 25, 2010, 02:01:47 PM
But why are so many post-ops seemingly having problems?
Oh? What kind of problems?
Quote from: Vexing on December 25, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
Oh? What kind of problems?
From reading posts over the past months, it seems like many, though certainly not all, post-op girls can feel unfulfilled, listless and more than a little lost once they've had surgery. There are obviously many reasons why this can be the case, but I think a core one is when people start thinking along the lines of "My life begins once I've had SRS" which to me is as poisonous a way of thinking as wallowing in what if. Yeah, you need to make goals and plans (surgery definitely isn't cheap) but if you focus solely on getting surgery and being post op and forget to live and enjoy you're life in the present, you will inevitably be disappointed when you get there.
By the sounds of things you did exactly that, enjoyed the life you had while working steadily towards the end goal of SRS but without focusing on it to the detriment of all else and as a result you just feel normal, not disappointed or unfulfilled. I'm hoping I can manage the same trick.
Quote from: Helena on December 28, 2010, 06:53:26 AM
From reading posts over the past months, it seems like many, though certainly not all, post-op girls can feel unfulfilled, listless and more than a little lost once they've had surgery.
I haven't read these posts, the ones I have read about post op life have been largely positive.
I still think Helena makes a valid point though. Even your post admits that some people do in fact put too much emphasis on being post-op to the exclusion of everything else along the way. I think there are an equal number of people that fear surgery for the fact that it is irreversable and if they have any doubts about their course, its just going to exploit those weaknesses.
Quote from: niamh on October 09, 2010, 12:12:17 PM
I guess this is as good a place for this question as any. My question is: how does on cope with not transitioning despite badly wanting to?
I have told details about my situation before in other parts of this great website but seeing as I am still a newbie here I thought I would briefly give them here now. The reason I am not transitioning despite wanting to is that I have a loving partner who accepts me totally for the woman I am and is willing to stand by my side in tick and thin. She doesn't care what body parts I have or what gender presentation I give out and someone like that is few and far between. She's a real keeper. The reason she understands me so well is that she is a little gender-queer herself and has herself gone through the whole 'finding yourself phase' as regards gender and sexuality. She's identified at various times of her life as ftm, lesbian, tomboy, androgyne so she knows better than anyone else around me how it feels to be me, a woman presenting as a man.
However, it would be unfair to take all this support she gives me and not give something back in return. We both want kids and the best way to get them is to do it the old fashioned way. So I wait until the time is right to have kids and when they have come I can finally start popping those pink pills.
When I was 19 and came out to my folks as trans I was sure that I would be living as a woman by my mid-twenties. I mean, for a 19 year old, half a decade is a loooong time. However, it's true what they say, life never works out exactly as you think it would. I found the love of my life but it came at the cost of post-poning my transition.
I read about all the men and women who are getting on with their transitions and the rest of their life and I am so happy for them and I'd like nothing more than to join them but I can't right now and it makes me a little sad. (Actually, it makes me a great lot sad.) Of course, I am so grateful that I have found someone so loving and accepting. It's just that I'd love to have it all. I know, I am being greedy.
So, is there anyone here that intends to transition but can't right now despite wanting to? How do you cope with the every day? I would love suggestions and advice because it's getting to a point where I am being driven up the wall.
Coming late to the dance, I won't try reading all the posts. I'll just focus on this one.
It's not uncommon for the need to transition to become stronger as you age. That's something to consider when you give your life to someone else at some point in your life. We all change as we age and our perspectives, our values and our needs change along with us. So, if you're young, 20 years down the road you may find yourself so miserable you decide to transition regardless of the consequences. Then you have a lot of people who have become accustomed to you giving in to their needs becoming very upset with you for deciding to no longer do that. It happens. A lot.
As far as children, Dr. Christine McGinn (GRS surgeon) froze her sperm before transitioning. She is now a mother of twins. And her partner is the birth mother. You don't have to have intercourse to be a parent.
You say you want to give something back to your wife for loving you the way she does. Does she feel she has to give you something for your love? Love isn't a quid pro quo arrangement. If you love someone, you love them. They shouldn't be expected to give you something back. However, you say your partner loves you for who you are. Isn't who you are a woman?
No matter what, you'll never really know unless you ask. Your post above sounds like you are assuming a lot.
Quote from: regan on December 30, 2010, 09:22:38 AM
I still think Helena makes a valid point though. Even your post admits that some people do in fact put too much emphasis on being post-op to the exclusion of everything else along the way. I think there are an equal number of people that fear surgery for the fact that it is irreversable and if they have any doubts about their course, its just going to exploit those weaknesses.
My issue was with the use of 'so many' - implying that post-surgery regrets/problems are extremely common.
I thought the point of this one, little thread was for non ops to have a safe environment and discuss coping mechanisms. Perhaps there isn't much call for it. It seems though that when people post looking specifically for that type of advice, mutual experience etc., they get told that the problem is that they have chosen to be non op. I think that Niamh came to this board as a non op and has already made HER informed choice. Evidently, she sees some benefit to non transition, something so powerful that she is willing to sacrifice some part of her happiness for that perceived thing. That sounds like something only she can decide. She isn't (though maybe I'm wrong) looking to question her decision, only how to implement it. Many are willing to sacrifice everything for transition, and that's fine. It is their choice. Some of us are not willing to do that, at least at this time. When someone who is post op questions that decision, I have to wonder if they are actually in need of affirmation of THEIR choice. Not that I think they regret it, but perhaps they get a bit of nagging doubt from the problems transition can bring. I am a bit confused re: Julie Marie vrs Julikins, but hasn't one of you posted on more than a few occasions concerning "ex wife from hell" loss of job, etc.etc.? I do not wish to go through that at this stage of my life. Balancing on a tightrope between those types of problems and finding exactly what I need, at this point in my life, to fulfill my trans nature, is my search, my struggle, my choice.
As one of the non-ops, I wouldn't take an expresion from a post op, of any sort of criticism, seriously. I'm sure there are many reasons someone might say such a thing, but each of us must take this journey our own way.
I am very pleased, not to say proud of those that have and are going to achieve their full transision. But each of us is making a difference. My personal feeling is that, if we can ensure the children of today don't have to put up with as much nosense as some of us did, then we have done well.
And I really think we have.
Thanks very much to everyone for their replies. Sorry that I won't be able to reply to people individually. Unfortunately my laptop broke so I have to borrow from a friend to get online etc.
I find that I inhabit a world between non-transition and transition, in that if I had kids I would start tomorrow and the only thing holding me back is them. It won't be long before we plan to have them needless to say (as much as you can plan these things) and then I can start with getting to a doctor for HRT, social transition etc.
I am willing to wait so we will have kids in the future (without having to resort to freezing sperm, IVF, adoption etc.).
What I was asking about was coping mechanisms to hold me over until then (c. 3 years) and I think that this thread gave me some support and ideas in that direction.
I think everyone has to find their way. I believe that I am doing that, probably a little shakely but I seem to be coping well enough. I know I can hold on these just few more years so I can have kids with my partner.
Contrary to what some said, I am not planning to wait 20 something years. These kids will know only two mothers as they will be too young when I am transitioning to remember anyway else. At least that is the plan. I know plans doesn't always go exactly as hoped but fingers crossed that's the way it will work.
Quote from: Vexing on December 30, 2010, 12:29:49 PM
My issue was with the use of 'so many' - implying that post-surgery regrets/problems are extremely common.
I think its near impossible to quote an accurate number. Not that I disagree with you. No matter how you look at it, it is a major life altering decision and one of the few completely irreversable things about full transition. To say that there ar,e no fears going into, or regret following it I think is largely unrealistic. I think, mostly due to the "gatekeeper" stance still in play by the medical community we are conditioned not to talk about our fears or in the case of post-op, regrets. Therefore you can't say with any accuracy what the outcomes are. I don't know that we'll ever overcome that...
regan
Your point is well made. If somewhat difficult to disprove.
However, someone who transisions, but remains pre-op, for a time at least, has already made a life changing decision. In that, though they might revert, their relationships will be forever changed.
For that matter, similar things can be said about most of what we do. Having a baby for example.
In the case of someone having surgery, then changing their minds, the worst they will have to put up with is life long sterility.
The value of fertility is, I suggest, subjective.
Quote from: regan on January 02, 2011, 12:50:05 PM
Therefore you can't say with any accuracy what the outcomes are.
Yes - and it goes both ways. Trying to make a categorical statement either way is going to be speculation at best.
As I've said to Cait via PM it's not so much physical problems and regrets that I was talking about, but more the loss of a sense of purpose that comes with achieving any life goal...especially when you focus solely on achieving that goal. As I said, focusing on the future to the detriment of all else means you forget to live and enjoy your life in the now. I think it's perfectly possible to have surgery and to not have any physical problems and no regrets over having had it, but to be in a position where you essentially have to remember how to live your life again. Personally, i'd like to try and avoid that pitfall.
Anyway, i think we've derailed this thread enough. :)
Quote from: Helena on January 03, 2011, 05:27:24 AM
Anyway, i think we've derailed this thread enough. :)
For my part, I don't think you've derailed the thread at all, these are important points.
But to return to your assertion that many post op girls feel unfufilled after a few months. That might be expected when we look at the possible objectives.
If anyone thinks that, post op, their problems will be over and life will become bed of roses then they probably shouldn't go ahead in the first place.
A post of girl for example, isn't going to find all her problems disappearing. She's going to start having to deal with the same problems that women have to deal with every day. To make things just a wee bit tricky, she's going to have to start from the begining.
For my part, I'm in my mid 50s. I have no illisions. The problems I would face would be enormous. But, for the first time in my life I could feel comfortable facing them as me instead of as a fake man.
Well, just to add my tuppence to the derail:
I think it might be worthwhile remembering the physical impact of major operations and that some form of depression is a fairly common side effect to a lot of major surgeries. The initial bouts post GRS could easily be masked due to initial euphoria and then settling into a post op care routine then rebalancing hormones.... then a few months in, bang.
It's important to have goals for your post-op life. Big goals. Important goals. Ones that will take years to achieve.
You don't get a break from life being ->-bleeped-<-ty after SRS. It carries on and you need to make sure you have something to keep you occupied - be it writing a book, buying and renovating a house, training for a triathlon, adopting a child, planning your wedding, whatever.
Quote from: Vexing on January 02, 2011, 06:14:41 PM
Yes - and it goes both ways. Trying to make a categorical statement either way is going to be speculation at best.
I hope this doesn't sound nitpicky, but on this point we actually agree. There isn't enough open dialogue pro or con on post op satisfaction to accurately measure a level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction.
Quote from: regan on January 06, 2011, 10:54:39 AM
I hope this doesn't sound nitpicky, but on this point we actually agree. There isn't enough open dialogue pro or con on post op satisfaction to accurately measure a level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction.
Yup.
Hell, my cousins were really worried about me because they had heard that 90% of trans women kill themselves after SRS, yet when I asked for their source, they were pretty vague ("A friend told me, and his mother's hairdresser read a study on it").
There's clearly too much mythology and misinformation surrounding this issue already.