Hey, all - a few of you may vaguely remember me. I posted a little bit a while back, and have since kinda withdrawn, since it feels like there is little to learn that applies at this stage. My initial questions ("am I trans? What will HRT do? How good are the results of SRS?") have been answered quite thoroughly (to whit, "YES!", "Enough" and "Good enough"). It's been several months since I first contacted a psychologist, and when I contacted that psychologist, that was because I needed help now. As in, immediately. I had only just allowed myself to stop repressing the constant feelings of inferiority, shame, resentment, and self-loathing, and linked them to transsexualism, but the amount of stuff locked away in my subconscious was staggering, and unbearable at first.
When I say "unbearable at first", you may take that to mean "but more and more bearable over time". But no - it's pretty much only escalated, and is way past merely "unbearable" at this point. When I first went to the psychologist, it was with the understanding that a society as modern, civilized, and humane as the one I live in would, of course, see my predicament, and help me as soon as reasonably possible. It's been several months already, and nothing has happened - I've been referred to a specialist on sexuality and gender issues, and had a consultation, but she knew less about transsexualism than I did after just a couple of months, and she consistently misgendered even post-transition trans people, and she used slurs. On top of that, she refused to refer me into the program yet. After leaving her office, I was closer to suicide than I've ever been before in my life, and I haven't recovered afterwards.
However, things are worse than this - turns out the system not only requires 1-2 full years of therapy before you're allowed any level of HRT at all (and I haven't even managed to get myself into the beginning stages of that program - I'm still waiting to be referred to the stage where I'll be required to wait for 1-2 years) - they also require "real-life experience" before HRT, and will require me to prove that I can function in the new gender role. But the thing is, I can't function in any role at all! My depression and dysphoria are severe enough that getting out of bed in the morning is an epic, heroic struggle, and I'm unable to even follow the most basic university courses. Every day, I stave off the urge to self-harm, or to harm others. Every night, I stare into the wall for hours before I can fall asleep, feeling the remains of my youth slip away from my fingers.
So, in order to be allowed HRT, I need to function normally. I need HRT to function normally. I need HRT in order to get HRT, and self-medication is punished by refusal of transition.
In order to get HRT, I need HRT, which would lead to me being denied HRT.
WHEN DID FRANZ KAFKA BECOME THE AUTHOR OF MY LIFE???
Every single day is unbearable, and I have to live in this state for over a year in order to be allowed out of it. If I try to wait that long, I'm pretty sure I'd be suicidal long before. It seems to me like the system has been specifically designed in order to drive me, and other like me, to suicide. They're murderers, and they're in total control of my life.
There is only one out: I need to self-medicate, and I need to hide that fact from the authorities. In any event, I can't keep waiting, because my youth is slipping away, and how can I grow into an elderly lady when I've never been a young girl? Problem is, all reputable online pharmacies refuse to ship here because of our strict rules, so that means I'm stuck with the disreputable ones, the medicine from whom can't be trusted not to kill me. Which leads me back to my point: The system is trying to kill me!
Oh, they probably view themselves as righteous and helpful, but they're still trying to kill me.
I would give up an arm and both legs for HRT. I'd be willing to lose contact with all my friends and family for the rest of my life. Hell, I'd prostitute myself, and if I was told that, in order to get HRT, I'd have to kill someone? I'm not sure I wouldn't. I'd rather have HRT than food. My body as it exists is an abomination, and I abhor it. It poisons everything I do, everything I have even the slightest contact with. It always has.
There is only one thing left to add: I will not die. I will not allow them to win. I will not allow my corpse and spirit to be violated by being remembered as a man. I am going to transition, even if I have to emigrate, or take unsafe medications, or rob a pharmacy in order to get there. And if I take bad HRT and die, I can think of no better way to go. But that is a last resort. For now, I will survive one more day. Just one more. As always.
I need help right now, and I won't get it.
Thanks for listening.
E
I'm really sorry to read this. Try to hang in there. I know you want to experience things while young. But sadly, for many of us, that way is blocked.
Also sorry about all the crap that's been dug up. Perhaps you could spend some time thinking about it so you can get on top?
Which country do you reside in?
Back in the 1960's when I was under legal age (teens) and doctors didn't know squat, I just kept going from doctor to doctor and looking for someone who knew his backside from a hole in the ground. I finally found a doctor who had enough smarts (and compassion) to know I was going to DIY any way I could and decided it was better that my HRT be supervised.
Quote from: Northern Jane on November 16, 2010, 07:29:00 PM
Back in the 1960's when I was under legal age (teens) and doctors didn't know squat, I just kept going from doctor to doctor and looking for someone who knew his backside from a hole in the ground. I finally found a doctor who had enough smarts (and compassion) to know I was going to DIY any way I could and decided it was better that my HRT be supervised.
Everything I've heard leads me to believe that no independent doctor will give me HRT - that is the exclusive purview of the national GID clinic, who are somewhat notorious for gatekeeping.
Quote from: Cruelladeville on November 16, 2010, 04:37:02 PM
Which country do you reside in?
Norway.
Quote from: spacial on November 16, 2010, 04:23:29 PMI'm really sorry to read this. Try to hang in there. I know you want to experience things while young. But sadly, for many of us, that way is blocked.
I'm gonna hang in there as long as I can. I'm lucky enough to have a wonderful girlfriend who can help take my mind off things, so there's that.
As for youth, if I
do get through the system, I'll have SRS before age 25. The problem is, I want it before I'm 23, and I want it after I've been on HRT for a while. Also, I'm probably gonna try to get SRS out-of-country, by one of the more reputable doctors out there - I do not trust the ones they have here to provide a satisfactory result.
QuoteAlso sorry about all the crap that's been dug up. Perhaps you could spend some time thinking about it so you can get on top?
I've been trying. I've decided to self-medicate at the earliest opportune moment, and then just lie to the clinic about it. I think it's the only way to get out on top.
I'm so sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble. From what I have heard in the US, therapists just realize how serious you are if you self medicate and consider that an indicator that you are truely TS. Hang in there and keep fighting!
Big Hug, Stacy
E I am so sorry to hear of your problem. Let me ask a silly question.
Why can't you move to another country and get help there?
Do hold on girl. Take it one day at a time.
Jillieann
Damn. Who knew Norway was so tarded?
If you have the money, you can just self-medicate and then go to Thailand and get the surgery, or so I hear.
It's hard to fault anyone for doing that with obstacles like these.
Quote from: StacyBeaumont on November 16, 2010, 08:28:45 PM
I'm so sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble. From what I have heard in the US, therapists just realize how serious you are if you self medicate and consider that an indicator that you are truely TS. Hang in there and keep fighting!
Big Hug, Stacy
*hugs back*
Thanks - I'm gonna try.
Quote from: Jillieann on November 16, 2010, 08:47:12 PM
E I am so sorry to hear of your problem. Let me ask a silly question.
Why can't you move to another country and get help there?
Do hold on girl. Take it one day at a time.
Jillieann
That's one option I'm seriously considering, but there are some serious downsides to that plan, as well.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on November 16, 2010, 09:11:52 PM
Damn. Who knew Norway was so tarded?
If you have the money, you can just self-medicate and then go to Thailand and get the surgery, or so I hear.
It's hard to fault anyone for doing that with obstacles like these.
I want to self-medicate and then go to Thailand or somewhere and get surgery, but the problem is finding some way to actually get the medications.
Here, the only way to transition is via the national GID clinic, which is run by a gatekeeper and has staff which is essentially handpicked by her.
QuoteEvery day, I stave off the urge to self-harm, or to harm others
Unless that statement was made out of pure frustration, it's disturbing and needs to be addressed. The system sucks, but harming someone else is going to put hormone therapy even further out of your reach.
Quote from: JohnR on November 18, 2010, 10:02:16 AM
Unless that statement was made out of pure frustration, it's disturbing and needs to be addressed. The system sucks, but harming someone else is going to put hormone therapy even further out of your reach.
The statement was technically true, but a bit overstated - it's not like I go around constantly having to fight down the uncontrollable urge to maim, crush, kill, but I generally find myself wishing harm onto the people in charge of this system quite often. I also have rare violent urges at random, but these are easily controllable and only come up in the very worst bouts of dysphoria.
I should perhaps have reformulated that into "I wish some specific people would die in a fire", but I wasn't really in the mood to review my own writing.
Gosh, it makes me quiet. I'm sorry to hear that. I thought Scandinavian countries were always so far advanced in social stuff.
Just keep your mind to it, I'm sure their must be a way to come to a solution. have you spoken to local support groups?
warm hugs,
Emma
Quote from: Emma on November 18, 2010, 12:17:16 PM
Gosh, it makes me quiet. I'm sorry to hear that. I thought Scandinavian countries were always so far advanced in social stuff.
Just keep your mind to it, I'm sure their must be a way to come to a solution. have you spoken to local support groups?
warm hugs,
Emma
What support groups?
Normally, we're pretty good. It just turns out that this particular part of the Norwegian health care system is a black hole.
Listen to me- you have been a young girl despite how others saw you, and you're going to be OK, and you're going to get through this without intentionally hurting yourself or anyone else. You can do this, and someday other people will call you miss- or whatever that translates to wherever it is you find yourself when you've come to that point in your life. You just can't give up.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on November 16, 2010, 09:11:52 PM
Damn. Who knew Norway was so tarded?
Quote from: Emma on November 18, 2010, 12:17:16 PM
I thought Scandinavian countries were always so far advanced in social stuff.
In just the last few months, things seem to be getting increasingly negative in Europe.
Quote from: spacial on November 20, 2010, 08:44:40 AM
In just the last few months, things seem to be getting increasingly negative in Europe.
Must be more of a Norwegian thing then. I haven't seen the situation changing all that much in Belgium (at least not in a negative sense).
Emma
Quote from: Emma on November 21, 2010, 03:53:41 AM
Must be more of a Norwegian thing then. I haven't seen the situation changing all that much in Belgium (at least not in a negative sense).
Emma
Really pleased to hear that. I did over generalise to be frank and apologise. I'm still shaking with what is happening to Jeatyn.
The astonishing tacit attacks from Stonewall UK. The utter quiet from any supportive groups.
There is so much legislation, recognising the rights of transgenderd people, in the UK as well as Europe, I honestly thought our society was moving froward.
Perhaps I'm just looking at things through a dark cloud.
I know Norway well as a visitor....
But I've no idea as to the system with healthcare though the national Nog helicopter response service is first rate (you have such a large sovereign wealth fund)....lol
I wonder what the system is like if you be post-op?
Quote from: spacial on November 21, 2010, 04:06:25 AM
I did over generalise to be frank and apologise.
No worries :-*
Didn't follow the Jeatyn story so I can't comment on that.
And yes, clouds will always be there and the optimal world is still far far away. On the other hand, when we look at what has been achieved over the last couple of decades, we're moving in the better direction ;)
Love,
Emma
Hi E,
I'm sorry to hear that Norway is taking such a medieval attitude to transsexuals and refusing to follow recent develeopments.
But as Norway is signed up to the European Human Rights legislation go try find a lawyer who can take your case to Strasbourg.
Or for that matter if you ask a lawyer to do so and they make no headway then you are entitled to make a claim direct yourself.
Have a look at the ECHR website.
Quote from: Aegir on November 20, 2010, 06:54:53 AM
Listen to me- you have been a young girl despite how others saw you, and you're going to be OK, and you're going to get through this without intentionally hurting yourself or anyone else. You can do this, and someday other people will call you miss- or whatever that translates to wherever it is you find yourself when you've come to that point in your life. You just can't give up.
The Norwegian equivalent of "miss" would be "hey, you!"
Thanks. I'm not gonna give up - if I can't get through the system, then I'll go elsewhere. But they damn well oughtta let me through - I'm pretty much the TS poster child, it seems like.
Quote from: spacial on November 20, 2010, 08:44:40 AM
In just the last few months, things seem to be getting increasingly negative in Europe.
I don't think anything has changed here in that time-span.
Quote from: Cruelladeville on November 21, 2010, 04:12:16 AM
I know Norway well as a visitor....
But I've no idea as to the system with healthcare though the national Nog helicopter response service is first rate (you have such a large sovereign wealth fund)....lol
I wonder what the system is like if you be post-op?
The health care system is good - affordable for absolutely everyone (my entire transition, including electrolysis and breast augmentation if it turns out to be "necessary", will be free, bar the equivalent of about £120 a year), without the extreme waits and bad care found in many other places. However, the transitioning system is bottom rung, which surprised me hugely - after all, recognition of a TS person's actual gender, legal name change, altered birth certificate, anti-discrimination legislation in employment, etc, are present. Norway has signed all the treaties, made all the changes, and were quite early in allowing legal transition. Post-op, there are no problems at all - it is illegal to treat people as anything else than a cigender person of their correct gender in any capacity that can be legislated for. The problem is
getting transition.Quote from: lilacwoman on November 21, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Hi E,
I'm sorry to hear that Norway is taking such a medieval attitude to transsexuals and refusing to follow recent develeopments.
But as Norway is signed up to the European Human Rights legislation go try find a lawyer who can take your case to Strasbourg.
Or for that matter if you ask a lawyer to do so and they make no headway then you are entitled to make a claim direct yourself.
Have a look at the ECHR website.
I've seriously considered doing just that, but I doubt I'd get anywhere, and I do not want to risk having my transition delayed in any way by the legal proceddings, so if I end up doing it, it will be
after transition. But someone's gotta pay, and someone's gotta change this system, and the latter person might as well be me. Just, not yet.
On a more pleasant note, I'm gonna shamelessly brag about the event that made my day: I was gendered female in full guy-mode today.
Hi E
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles of transition.
Is this in the whole of Norway or are things better in a big city like Bergen or Oslo.
If so, move over to a big city to get the treatment you need, otherwise move over to a more friendly TG country, Like Uk, holland, belgium or germany, and how is transition regulated in the other scandinavic countries like sweden or danmark? maybe they can help you, of course there are thresholds to take but everything better than commit suicide.
Don't hurt yourselve or anybody else, it will make things even worse.
Hang on, girl, transition is for the one who maintains. So don't give up
a very, very, very big hug
annette
.
Quote from: annette on November 22, 2010, 12:13:40 PM
Hi E
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles of transition.
Is this in the whole of Norway or are things better in a big city like Bergen or Oslo.
If so, move over to a big city to get the treatment you need, otherwise move over to a more friendly TG country, Like Uk, holland, belgium or germany, and how is transition regulated in the other scandinavic countries like sweden or danmark? maybe they can help you, of course there are thresholds to take but everything better than commit suicide.
Don't hurt yourselve or anybody else, it will make things even worse.
Hang on, girl, transition is for the one who maintains. So don't give up
a very, very, very big hug
annette
.
This is how the system works: First, you contact a general psychologist. That psychologist refers you to a specialist on transgender issues, who makes a general evaluation of your mental state. If they're reasonably certain your issues do not stem from some other issue, they refer you to the GID clinic in Oslo, which is the only place that can legally provide medical transition. There, they need to diagnose you, which is estimated to take a full year and requires RLE. Then, you can get HRT. I'm currently in Bergen, and here there ae a grand total of 2 transgender specialists, one of whom I wouldn't accept an appointment with unless he was the last option, and the other being the one I mentioned in the OP. Where I live makes no difference - the system is the same. I've spent just over 3 months in this system, and I'm currently going to a specialist, waiting for referral. The positive side is that I'm pretty much the textbook example of transsexualism, so it's not unlikely my diagnosis process could take less than a year (I know people further away from the "ideal" who got HRT after 9 months).
The other Scandinavian countries are apparently worse. The rest of Europe isn't too good, either, but I'm consider Holland or France.
I will hurt no one. When I have a urgeto harm others, I can control it. When I have an urge to hurt myself, I channel it towards less destructive outlets, like walking outside in the cold without a jacket. I will never, ever give up - I will transition if I have to personally break into a pharmacy and steal the drugs.
*hugs back*
But thank you for caring, Annette.
Hi E
I don't know how things are in france but i do know how things are working in holland, cos I live there.
When you are in the dutch healthcaressystem, you can go to the gendercentre in amsterdam.
No first contact with a general psychologist, no need for a recommandation from your general practitioner.
The only thing to need is to make an appointment with them and they take care of everything.
They have a psychologist specialized in genderproblems, an endocrinologist and a surgeon.
They can send you to a hair removespecialist and voice therapy.
But how do you get in the dutch healthcaresystem ? quite simple, find a job in the netherlands and get the paperwork done for a legal status, that's it.
The healthcare insurance is covering for about 95% of the costs, sometimes there is a contribution for the shrink, hairremoval and voice therapie depending on wich insurance you have.
but the HRT and surgeon are fully covered by law.
I hope you can do something with this information and btw you are right, never ever give up.
love annette
Hi E,
I'm sorry to hear things are going so badly for you... I would like to say a few things though. First, you've already taken some pretty big steps- deciding to transition, deciding to get into the 'system' for it- you've shown already you've the strength to see it through, you just have to remember that :).
Next- your situation doesn't sound brilliant, but also not that rare when it comes to public funded trans care, and not just in Europe. Take CAMH in Canada - the rules there are: wait to get accepted, then 1 year RLT before hormones, then 1 year on hormones before recommending surgery.. sound familiar? It just seems that the only difference is it's easier to short-circuit through self medication in some places than it is in Norway from what you've described.
You should type CAMH into the search bar here sometime actually and click on some of the threads.. you'll see plenty of people who are dealing/have dealt with similar hurdles. A lot of them now spending time in the post-op forum chatting about stuff there too. Maybe being able to remind yourself it can be done will help :)
Maybe you can try something in the meantime to help get through this part - if every day you're forcing yourself to get up, force yourself to do something to help towards transition too: 5 mins on your voice, 10 mins in front of a mirror with cheap make up discovering which shades you will NEVER wear together ever ever again, an hour at work that you know in your head the money from will go into a jar somewhere to be spent on electro... whatever it is, just do it. Decide that every day they make you wait is just one more day you'll spend time practicing something that will make them feel stupid for that because of how quickly and well you 'take' to being a girl in their eyes. Plus if you know you've taken a step already that day it might help you feel better during the rest of it.
And look on the bright side... you've said they have some latitude and people can get on HRT by 9 months. If the referral comes along before summer, by the anniversary of this post you could look back on it and have a ticker counting up your days on hormones under your sig :).
One-letter girl, I empathize with you, for I have been going through the same.
I have done the exact same. When I finally decided to talk to a psychologist about the issue, it was because I needed help RIGHT THEN and that I was ready for it. A year has passed, and I have JUST been given an appointment with the specialist. And while where I live, at least, we do not need therapy or RLE to be given HRT, nothing guarantees my apointment in January is going to get me a prescription. But it'd freakin' better do.
I am with you, and feel free to contact me if you need to talk. Actually, I need to talk, too. If you are like me and are suffering from a friend deficit, we one-letter girls can be our mutual therapists !
Ganbatte ne ; atashi mo ganbatte dakara.
pixiegirl: I have the sheet of regulations from the CPATH. It may be recent, but while 1 year RLE is still necessary for SRS, it is not required anymore for HRT. This is good news.
Quote from: A on November 27, 2010, 12:00:13 AM
One-letter girl, I empathize with you, for I have been going through the same.
I have done the exact same. When I finally decided to talk to a psychologist about the issue, it was because I needed help RIGHT THEN and that I was ready for it. A year has passed, and I have JUST been given an appointment with the specialist. And while where I live, at least, we do not need therapy or RLE to be given HRT, nothing guarantees my apointment in January is going to get me a prescription. But it'd freakin' better do.
I am with you, and feel free to contact me if you need to talk. Actually, I need to talk, too. If you are like me and are suffering from a friend deficit, we one-letter girls can be our mutual therapists !
Ganbatte ne ; atashi mo ganbatte dakara.
I'm sorry for your situation :( . It's been 3 1/2 months for me, thus far. I'd love to talk.
Taihen desu ne. Demo, ganbarimashou yo.
Quote from: pixiegirl on November 26, 2010, 11:19:46 PM
Hi E,
I'm sorry to hear things are going so badly for you... I would like to say a few things though. First, you've already taken some pretty big steps- deciding to transition, deciding to get into the 'system' for it- you've shown already you've the strength to see it through, you just have to remember that :).
Next- your situation doesn't sound brilliant, but also not that rare when it comes to public funded trans care, and not just in Europe. Take CAMH in Canada - the rules there are: wait to get accepted, then 1 year RLT before hormones, then 1 year on hormones before recommending surgery.. sound familiar? It just seems that the only difference is it's easier to short-circuit through self medication in some places than it is in Norway from what you've described.
You should type CAMH into the search bar here sometime actually and click on some of the threads.. you'll see plenty of people who are dealing/have dealt with similar hurdles. A lot of them now spending time in the post-op forum chatting about stuff there too. Maybe being able to remind yourself it can be done will help :)
Maybe you can try something in the meantime to help get through this part - if every day you're forcing yourself to get up, force yourself to do something to help towards transition too: 5 mins on your voice, 10 mins in front of a mirror with cheap make up discovering which shades you will NEVER wear together ever ever again, an hour at work that you know in your head the money from will go into a jar somewhere to be spent on electro... whatever it is, just do it. Decide that every day they make you wait is just one more day you'll spend time practicing something that will make them feel stupid for that because of how quickly and well you 'take' to being a girl in their eyes. Plus if you know you've taken a step already that day it might help you feel better during the rest of it.
And look on the bright side... you've said they have some latitude and people can get on HRT by 9 months. If the referral comes along before summer, by the anniversary of this post you could look back on it and have a ticker counting up your days on hormones under your sig :).
I'm seeing my psychologist again in a bit over a week. I've printed of the SoC and the clinic's info on referrals, and am planning to show them to her and tell her that her job isn't to evaluate my suitability for transition - it's to make a general evaluation about my mental state, and refer me on. With any luck, if I phrase it politely, she'll see my point and send me on my way.
I have no job, and the state pays for electro.
As for voice and makeup, both are good ideas. I've done some voice work, but I really can't progress without someone around to evaluate.
The Canadian system sounds very much like the one here, except I doubt they ever require a full year of RLE. Still pretty sickening, though.
Quote
pixiegirl: I have the sheet of regulations from the CPATH. It may be recent, but while 1 year RLE is still necessary for SRS, it is not required anymore for HRT. This is good news.
Sounds pretty recent alright... also an improvement.
Quote from: E on November 27, 2010, 09:01:29 AM
As for voice and makeup, both are good ideas. I've done some voice work, but I really can't progress without someone around to evaluate.
Yeah there is a point where you really need some sort of feedback, but even without that getting in practice so that your voice stays used to being in a higher pitch and tone, and for longer, will help.
QuoteThe Canadian system sounds very much like the one here, except I doubt they ever require a full year of RLE. Still pretty sickening, though.
Definitely used to, or at least claimed that was the way you had to do it. Really, anywhere that has public health for this involves lots of waiting. And bouncing from referral to wait list to referral to wait list etc.
Quote from: pixiegirl on November 27, 2010, 12:10:19 PMYeah there is a point where you really need some sort of feedback, but even without that getting in practice so that your voice stays used to being in a higher pitch and tone, and for longer, will help.
Yeah, I guess, although I've been kinda holding off 'til I can get back home to my family.
QuoteDefinitely used to, or at least claimed that was the way you had to do it. Really, anywhere that has public health for this involves lots of waiting. And bouncing from referral to wait list to referral to wait list etc.
I mean, I don't think they require that here. Canada, I don't know much about, except I'm considering eentually getting my SRS there.