Lately, I've been seeing a lot of negative things about FtMs. Like the idea that we're transitioning because of some internalized misogyny, or we're a trend, or we're all fake, or some ->-bleeped-<- that I'm too pissed to remember.
It's really starting to piss me off. I could handle it a couple of times - two or three but I mean...what the hell? Where did this rush of negativity come from? I mean, literally the ONLY time that I can do something FtM-related that isn't negative is when I watch Degrassi or when I'm on Susans. It's a bit ridiculous, actually.
ALSO, somewhat related, I'm sick of girls thinking I'm a lesbian and guys thinking I'm a tomboy after I tell them I'm a GUY. >>
Just...I'm done with this anti-FTM ->-bleeped-<-, because apparently it's our fault for everything.
And it's just...I'm not even TRYING to find this ->-bleeped-<-. It just pops up out of no where or I hear about it here so I go look at it.
Whatever, man. Done with this. It's getting a bit ridiculous.
Sorry. Just ranting.
Anyone else notice this?
Sorry for the BS that you've had to deal with, Devyn. I for one support you, along with hundreds of others here on this Board. Hang in there!
I am sorry if you have felt that way from people here. I might kid with you guys, but I am in your corner.
If something bothers you. please feel free to report is to the moderators in the lower right hand corner of the offending post.
If it is outside or the forum. You could post something, but they unfortunately have the right to say what they wish, right wrong or indifferent.
That's one issue I've had as I've been accepting more of the realities of being trans. We have such a loving supportive environment here at Susan's I sometimes forget that there are people out there who don't understand transsexuality and even hate and want to hurt transpeople. I'm so use to being around people who really get it that I forget there are people out there who have no clue and will never understand.
But there are also caring and accepting people out there who may not completely get it but will still support you. It's just like anyone else out there, you just gotta find the people out there who you jive with.
You have any links or examples?
I must be missing something. I will admit I don't read every post, but I read a lot of them, especially when I think there might be something controversial in them.
The problem is, I haven't seen this glut of anti trans/anti FtM posts. I also haven't seen any of them reported so that we as Moderators can take a closer look to see if something needs to be done.
Please help us to help you, report posts that you feel have gone overboard, when you do report them, tell us what your objection is, we are more than willing to investigate.
Sarah L.
Quote from: Devyn on November 30, 2010, 03:52:16 PM
Lately, I've been seeing a lot of negative things about FtMs. Like the idea that we're transitioning because of some internalized misogyny, or we're a trend, or we're all fake, or some ->-bleeped-<- that I'm too pissed to remember.
That stuff sucks, but it gets easier to avoid taking it personally when you realize that people say the same things about anything that's new or different.
For example, when I went vegetarian 17 years ago, I took a lot of crap for it. Got accused of "following a trend", "trying to mask an eating disorder", "trying to be different just to get attention". These days, vegetarianism is so commonplace, people don't really bat an eyelid.
Same with being bisexual. Same with having with having tattoos. The criticisms get easier to ignore as it becomes more obvious that they're just generic expressions of discomfort with something new and different.
Dude!!!
I for one love my Bro.s here
I had no idea that kinda stuff was going on... If it is, it should be reported... The insane world around us gives us enough crap already... We don't need it here
*HUGS... and a sock to the shoulder*
Quote from: Osiris on November 30, 2010, 04:11:01 PM
That's one issue I've had as I've been accepting more of the realities of being trans. We have such a loving supportive environment here at Susan's I sometimes forget that there are people out there who don't understand transsexuality and even hate and want to hurt transpeople. I'm so use to being around people who really get it that I forget there are people out there who have no clue and will never understand.
I have this problem so whenever people hate on trans people it really shocks and upsets me. Susans is like a little bubble where we are pretty much safe from transphobia.
Eh, you know whenever you do something outside of what the bulk of society considers "normal" you'll find a percentage of people who are going to bash you for it. Especially if it has to do with gender or sexuality.
Look, you guys are awesome. Really. Why else would I grace/annoy [strike to taste] you with my presence so often? Don't make me get out the pom-poms. Do I have to get out the pom-poms?
What the haters say is just the wind blowing. Everything and everybody is hated by someone. You guys just happen to be standing on the peak, so the wind hits you full force. So just grin - because there's nothing more manly than laughing in the face of the wind ;) .
I feel reading that sort of baseless, sloppy, biogtry, which I've been seeing a lot lately too, will do you no good whatsoever. If you happen to be in the wrong frame of mind, it can actually do a lot of harm. It's very easy for somebody to come up with some nonsense that will enrage people and that is something a lot of people aim for, especially on the internet, whether for the "lulz" or to drive traffic to their site or whatever other reason. Personally, I don't think it's healthy for that really mindless hatred stuff to even be linked to from a support site like this, but I've seen it happen many times.
If you see links like that, don't even click them because it can be harmful to you or, at the very least, you empower the people that produce that bull->-bleeped-<- when you visit their sites.
Pardon french...
Trans men are beginning to become more visible to our society and are thus reaping some of the same kind of ignorance and hate that MtF people have been dealing with for years. Trans men are being recognized as actually existing, with men like SDthan St Pierre, Chaz Bono, Diego Sanchez and even Buck Angel coming into the public eye.
All the negativity about FtM people you are hearing is just a symptom caused by being noticed, if ya ask me.
Very good point Emelye. FTMs are getting more out there which of course will cause a backlash, but it's the only way to make progress.
Most of the bashing I've read have come from lesbians. It's really strange.
What gets really irritating is the "we're just straight girls wanting to be gay pretty boy bishies b/c we read yaoi or like jrock" business. God that annoys me to no end. They say that these type of ftms are everywhere, and that it's a trend now.
I don't know, there are like a small handful of us on here that enjoy yaoi/bara and jrock. That's not why we're trans though I can tell you that much. And there's nothing wrong with not liking body hair, wanting to look young and attractive, or liking gay porn. None of us here think taking T will turn us into models and I have yet to meet anyone who thinks this way.
And the whole us not being actually trans because we're "straight" or like men is a bunch of bull->-bleeped-<-.
And apparently "being trans is the new goth". ::) Yeah...no.
When I read this crap I eye roll so hard my head hurts.
Quote from: Osiris on November 30, 2010, 09:31:43 PM
Very good point Emelye. FTMs are getting more out there which of course will cause a backlash, but it's the only way to make progress.
It is unfortunate that the only way to help people see and understand is to actually put yourself out there and let them see. Then you have to put up with thier slow and archaic ways of thinking. Slowly, slowly growth happens. Sorry that you have been feeling down about these things.
~Hugs~
Mrs. Erocse
I'm sick of that bovine feces too.
I am a guy, I do not hate women, I'm not "just a lesbian", I'm not "doing it for attention", and I am NOT gonna settle with "that boyish chick". I like women, but I'm not one.
I have seen pictures of my friends on that Very In-Need-Of-Cleaning Blog (you may know which one I mean). The person who writes that blog is so bitter and hateful. I can't stand to see such vitriol, rage and hatred.
I love this board. You're all marvellous. I am currently suffering from hormonal imbalance (internal organs telling me I must bleed), so if I sound a bit odd, that is why.
Cheers, everyone. Have a good time.
Quote from: Shayne on November 30, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
What gets really irritating is the "we're just straight girls wanting to be gay pretty boy bishies b/c we read yaoi or like jrock" business.
Yeah, like I even give a crap about yaoi or anything else like that. Anyway, if I had wanted to be a gay pretty boy, I would have transitioned twenty years earlier, or even ten. It's a little late for me to be even remotely "pretty," even for a guy and even if it might have been possible at some point. I'm pushing fifty, for chrissake.
I'm surprised to read of FtM bashing.
Especially so as I don't remember ever seeing any FtM character being used for belly laughs in commercials while at least once an hour I have to watch a fat bloke in a dress advertising banking, and another advertising toilet tissues and another advertising phone services.
FtMs should be so lucky.
Okay so I had a look at BlueTraveler's blog and there's stuff on there I agree with and stuff on there I don't. It's nowhere near as bad as Dirt's and she does make some good points. But she seems to pander a lot to people's opinions - if a radical feminist calls an MtF an invalid lesbian he will say she doesn't agree that she's a real lesbian. Then later an MtF goes and comments and once again she's being diplomatic.
Everyone just needs to remember that this is the internet and people express their opinions on it. They can post whatever opinion they like with no fear, whereas in real life they would be restrained by polite society. People have opinions on everything, everyone's different and the human world is a rich and varied place. What matters is how you feel and how the people close to you feel. I'm not discouraged by people like the aforementioned, or any transphobic words I may come across online.
I'd say it was cropping up more because one certain member has brought it up for discussion. I'm not gonna name names, i think most people will know who im talking about, they also seem to be sucking up to a certain very vocal anti-trans femmenist blogger.. huh.. but yes i've noticed the FTM bashing.. it's just ignorance at the end of the day, half the reason why im strictly stealth and never post pics or personal info of myself on trans related sites incase CERTAIN people get hold of them and use them on anti-trans blogs..
This has been bothering me a lot too. Especially since even when people try to post their opinions and have a civilized conversation with the bashers they are made out to seem stupid. I wanted to post my videos to help people out but I eventually want to be stealth to everyone except close family and anyone who needs to know so if my pics get used they will be out there for the world to see. I feel reasonably safe here and don't mind debate or the occasional frustrating thread because at least usually on here things can be talked through but I have noticed a lot of people bashing ftms online. As far as TV and such I think us guys have been kind of lucky though.
In general? I'd have to go with a mix of higher profile and ye olde 2nd wave feminist thought being behind this. More noticed Ftm's get, the more people are going to get offended/threatened and want to act on it... there's a quote, someone here uses it as a sig, by Gandhi "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - well FtM's aren't being ignored anymore. And the more people feel safe to come out, the wider the path is blown, then the more resistance is going to happen.
It's a really crude analogy, but now that FtM transexuality is getting properly acknowledged as existing more women than before, gay/straight/bi/whatever, are seing it as a threat to their own identity and are reacting like men used to (still do, I know) towards gay men, rather than treating it as something that can be dismissed, laughed off, if they know about it.
On an individual level? Sometimes you just gotta shrug a person off under the 'some people are just ->-bleeped-<-s' rule. You know who and what you are, leave them to not deal with it and move on.
Quote from: Shayne on November 30, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
What gets really irritating is the "we're just straight girls wanting to be gay pretty boy bishies b/c we read yaoi or like jrock" business. God that annoys me to no end.
In all fairness, by liking jrock, the annoyance is probably deserved >:-)
If ya even think of Yaoi your doomed, corupted and somewhat perverted. No chance for ya. Nope not one. ::)
@ Michael Alexander Hah! You're a genie aren't you? I think of you by quoting your sig and as if by magic you appear to post in the same place while I'm doing it. It's like rubbing a lamp :)
Sorry, we can all go back to the topic now
I like yuri, that must mean I'm totally not one of those "I wanna be cool and androgynous like David Bowie (I don't know any j-rock stars)" FtMs, right? Right?
...oh, crud. I'm just a confused lesbian.
(above is a JOKE. also, looking like Peter Murphy would kick arse, but I'm wishing for his voice. deep voice for me <3)
People assume a lot of really nasty things about MtF too, like that they're gay guys who only want to be women because they'll get straight men to date them, or that they've somehow "failed" to be men and want to be women so they won't be failures, or that they assume women have it easy and are too lazy to be men.
People just don't understand or want to understand what it's like to be transgendered, and a lot of folks have hideous bigoted thoughts and feelings on top of that, and people hate and fear what they don't understand. Unfortunately, we FtM are becoming more visible socially, so we're beginning to get a lot of negative attention similar to what MtFs have been getting.
Personally I am a man so I want to look like a man. I'm androgynous currently and that's all right for now. In the long run I'd rather be read as man than as some bushi or yaoi character whatever. I go to the gym as often as I can to build up muscle so I can be solid enough to defend myself if the time comes.
I'm pretty sure it will eventually. This time I'm going to be ready. From what I have seen and heard the biggest amount of hate and bashing comes from the lgbt. I hang around gay men and yesterday I was talking to one who was raging about 'being fooled' by an FTM. He didn't understand anything about transgender or transsexuals except that in his opinion they are trying to be something they are not. I tried to patiently explain it to him but I doubt he was listening. Then he blatantly tried to pick me up and that was amusing. Pattern here much?
Whenever I'm around them a group of gay men always seem to get around to bashing transsexuals and transgender individuals. It's appalling. There is just so much misunderstanding out there and that's in the gay community. The world at large doesn't have begin to have a clue about any of it. I don't out myself but I do my best to educate and hope some of it sticks to their slippery brains.
To try to help- there are people who get it and aren't transsexual themselves. I'm friends with a lot of cisgendered youtubers (very good friends with a few) who are very understanding of transsexual people, spanning many countries.
Quote from: Aegir on December 01, 2010, 04:54:40 PM
To try to help- there are people who get it and aren't transsexual themselves. I'm friends with a lot of cisgendered youtubers (very good friends with a few) who are very understanding of transsexual people, spanning many countries.
yea I have a friend who gets it. I mean, I dont think cis people can every fully understand, but she does get it
Quote from: Aegir on December 01, 2010, 04:54:40 PM
To try to help- there are people who get it and aren't transsexual themselves. I'm friends with a lot of cisgendered youtubers (very good friends with a few) who are very understanding of transsexual people, spanning many countries.
I came out to a friend who
immediately brought up the research she'd done on transsexualism in her neurology class. She definitely understood, even though she couldn't actually feel how it is. So, yeah, I agree - some cisgender people
do understand.