Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Topic started by: Maddie Secutura on December 05, 2010, 12:05:04 PM

Title: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 05, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
Ever heard the term "people know people who can help?"  This is from the notion that if I go to a support group I'll find someone who knows someone else who can help me out with the surgery situation.  I know I don't know anyone like this, so how about the rest of you.  I'm trying to put this issue to rest insomuch as I've at least explored the option of networking.  I figure what better than a site with a much larger pool of people than any local support group?

So do any of you have anyone who has helped you reach your surgery goal or are you, like me, financially on your own? 
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Cruelladeville on December 05, 2010, 12:40:18 PM
I'm not sure what your implying?

A sugar daddy/mommy whom pays for your surgeries?

Or some charitable trust?

Though i live and work and pay taxes in the UK, i've not had any assistance from the NHS apart from dispensing my HRT which i also pay for...

All my surgeries have been saved for, financed and paid by me?

A lovely thought though to have a 'mystery' benefactor for sure....

Good luck with that.....
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 05, 2010, 12:51:18 PM
Basically my mom thinks I need to go to a support group for my "transness" because someone in the group will know about some sort of magical organization that exists to help out the transgendered.  It's flawed logic know but it's not my own.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Colleen Ireland on December 05, 2010, 02:18:17 PM
What you WILL find at a support group is people who care, who will listen to you, and who will know about other resources you can utilize.  At least that's been my experience.  Just having people to talk with, who know where you're at because they've been there too (or are there right now), is extremely helpful.  You never know what sort of help you'll find by reaching out.  Financial?  Maybe not, but emotional and practical, for sure.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 05, 2010, 02:48:48 PM
Depending upon how much your were taught at school, about finance and raising capital, you might find people who can advise you on this.

I will make a word of caution.

In the last 20 or so years, there appears to be a greater emphasis upon borrowing. This is a serious mistake. Borrowing should only be used for capital finance which can show a return. Using borrowing for lesser degrees of spending is a sure road to bankruptcy.

That won't help you or your family.

I realise it's difficult and the agony of having to wait is intolerable. But just like your decision to change in the first place, it needs to be done with caution, careful thought and planning.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: K8 on December 05, 2010, 09:23:55 PM
To me, a support group can be valuable because 1) it is an accepting environment, 2) you find out that others are struggling with the same issues and many have it worse than you, and 3) they can answer some of your questions.  I found this very valuable, but not monetarily.  Try one near you and see how it goes.

- Kate
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Cruelladeville on December 06, 2010, 05:10:50 AM
@ Spacial....

*Using borrowing for lesser degrees of spending is a sure road to bankruptcy.*

You'll enjoy this.....

Peter Schiff: Stop prop-ups, let dying banks die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4TmhgfKKxA#)

And I apologise in advance for flipping off topic for a wee while.....lol
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Nero on December 06, 2010, 05:31:46 AM
Maddie,
From your last few posts, there's kind of a theme of you looking for someone to bail you out. You've got to bail yourself out. There's nothing wrong with receiving help, but help is more likely to come once you've taken your own steps. I'm assuming you're looking for SRS? Well, get ready for it. Save up what little you can, get your papers in order, do your research, and then help will arrive. But you've got to do everything you can with what you've got now first. There's nothing wrong with being broke and being unable to afford SRS. We've all been there. But take steps. Get ready. Do everything you can and life has a way of getting you what you need.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Cindy Stephens on December 06, 2010, 10:45:53 AM
to Spacial,
While in the great general sense I would agree with you, I think your statement is just a bit extreme.  Suppose you or your wife needed a heart transplant or new liver?  Certainly, sustaining life itself would seen to be a valid reason for a loan.  Perhaps, for some, a neovagina or ffs would fall into the same category.   It is, I agree, a decision not to be made lightly.  I would definitely stay away from the companies that specialize in medical loans that get pushed in some doctor's offices.  Some run 15% or more.   
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 06, 2010, 11:04:38 AM
I've taken pretty much all the steps there are short of the final financial hurdle.  I've seen a therapist to get cleared for it, been full time for about a year and a half so far and I just want to do this so I can get the other bits of my life on track such as getting a car that isn't falling apart.  And remember this whole "people know people" is my mother's idea.  She seems to think I have no right to be frustrated by my financial situation until I've explored all the networking options available to me.  I'm simply putting this out here to say "why yes I have in fact explored that option and no there is no such thing as the magical organization which can raise money for people like me." 

And as far as emotional support goes I'll pass on it.  Sure it's great to know that the people I know in my life approve of this but I'd still be doing it if they didn't.  In fact if they hated me for it, such a thing would probably strengthen my resolve simply out of spite.  This isn't some sort of "oh my boyfriend broke up with me and now I need a shoulder to cry on until I can get over it" situation.  I will do this on my own as I have been.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 06, 2010, 11:28:18 AM
Quote from: Cruelladeville on December 06, 2010, 05:10:50 AM
@ Spacial....

*Using borrowing for lesser degrees of spending is a sure road to bankruptcy.*

You'll enjoy this.....

And I apologise in advance for flipping off topic for a wee while.....lol

Thanks for that. It's an intersting point of view.

But National finance is very different from personal.

I'd rather not get into a debate about national.

With personal finance, we need to identify different  types of spending.

Capital spending is, generally, that which creates more wealth. If a car is necessary to earn your living, then it can be considered capital, but only when it is just sufficient for the need.

EG. You get a new job which pays well. But you must have a car. In one instance, a basic saloon is adequate, you only need it for traveling. The cost is recouped by the extra earnings you will get.

If you buy a limo, most of that is not capital. It will take considerably longer to pay it off, plus the additional running costs, fuel, maintence, insurance, so it will take you longer to be turning a profit on your new job.

In the second instance, the new job requires a limo. But the pay is not particularly good so it will probably take several years to repay any loan. During that time, there is the continuing risk of total loss of the limo, through uninsured event, for example, leaving you with no job, no income, no limo and a substantial debt.

That's the principal of domestic finance.

In this instance, Maddie needs to raise a substantial amount of capital for a surgical procedure that is essential to her well being.

If she were to borrow the entire amount, assuming she continues to have a secure and reasonably well paid job afterward, she will be repaying the loan for many years. Those repayments will consume a substantial portion of her pay, reducing her standard of living and limiting her scope for future spending, not to mention, trapping her in her present position.

Realistically, it seems unlikely that most people can assume long term secure employment. Moreover, the realities are that, for someone who had gone through gender surgery, there will be enormous social and psychologocal adjustment.

In this instance, borrowing is, frankly, suicide, always assuming you could find anyone prepared to lend. If you did, they would charge an enormous interest rate, increasing your burdon and destroying your life entirely.

For expenditure such as Maddies, she needs to find another way to raise the finance. Preferably, raising most of it without any recourse to any borrowing at all.

For that, she needs to find some capital project. That is a project which will show a financial return.

House purchase is one. Land purchase, espcially in the US, can be very profitable, provided you are careful where you buy and when.

But sometimes, it can be a case of spending on education or training, getting a decent job and saving up.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 06, 2010, 11:36:45 AM
Maddie

As tough as it seems, you are simply going to have to pull in your belt.

It's going to take time. That's life. There is no reason why you can't continue as you are, until you reach your goal. You can continu taking hormones and such. You can continue seeing a thrapist. There is no reason anyone need know what is, frankly, private.

But you need to be caucious and to think carefully. This is suppose to be the start of your life. Not an ntry into a financial or emotional prison.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 06, 2010, 12:12:54 PM
I've already made the big educational purchase: BS in mechanical engineering.  Right now I'm paying for a capital investment that should have started paying itself off through a decent career.  And yet I can't help but think that once they do the background check after my interview they realize, "hmm this could be a potential HR issue and that guy over there is just as qualified..." you get the point. 

The whole point of this is that yes I'm frustrated and no there is no one out there to be found through some support group.  I'm doing this on my own and when I finally do complete transition I will owe nothing to anyone.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 06, 2010, 01:31:31 PM
"hmm this could be a potential HR issue and that guy over there is just as qualified..."

Increased likelihood of HR problems, check.  Increased likelihood of lawsuits, check.  Increased health care costs vs. someone else your own age, check.  Indeed, it would be irresponsible for anyone in that posistion not to think in this way.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 06, 2010, 02:59:44 PM
As tekla points out, it's a matter of selling yourself.

But sometimes you just need to repackage. For example, 20 or so years ago, I started working contracts. I am hired for a specific job. The rate is agreed. I finsih the job and leave.

I'm not saying this will work for you specifically, but pointing out that presentation and packaging is all important.

Sometimes, also, inventing a professional persona can pay dividends. I discovered that many formen are unsure of their leadership abilities and always on guard for people arguing with them, not doing as they are told. Especially when a job needsto be redone.

I developed a standard response of No Problem. I then do whatever. I honestly don't care what I'me being asked to do, provided I get paid and it's safe.

Again, just a thought.

But Maddie. Always remember, you will succeed. Believe in yourself. This is going to be a lot of very hard work. There's going to be heartache along th way and a load of self doubt.

But just remember, who you are and where you're going.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 06, 2010, 10:30:20 PM
Are they thinking that I would bring up a lawsuit or an issue with HR?  I guess equal opportunity employers aren't so equal after all.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 06, 2010, 10:51:57 PM
Are you more or less likely?  Read the rest of the posts on here where "see a lawyer" or "I threated to sue" and the answer is 'yeah'.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 06, 2010, 11:01:07 PM
Well that's unfortunate.  How the hell am I supposed to find a job with a bias like that?
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 06, 2010, 11:14:49 PM
Look for non-traditional ways to use your degree.

That and....
that guy over there is just as qualified..
"That guy" is a couple of hundred people, half of which have more than a decade of real life engineering experience.  You need to take that into account also.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Sada on December 07, 2010, 12:19:30 AM
bye
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 07, 2010, 01:10:51 AM
This is why I apply to positions labeled as entry level so I don't have to compete with people who have years of experience who were recently laid off.  No I need to secure an actual career if I'm ever going to make this work.  I just hate how being TS makes my degree meaningless.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 07, 2010, 07:24:15 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 07, 2010, 01:10:51 AM
This is why I apply to positions labeled as entry level so I don't have to compete with people who have years of experience who were recently laid off.  No I need to secure an actual career if I'm ever going to make this work.  I just hate how being TS makes my degree meaningless.

The problem here is Maddie, that if you undervalue yourself, an employer will as well.

By all means, apply for entry level positions, preferrably temporary positions, just to get experience.

But evntually, you need to stand up for yourslf. You need to say, this is what I can do.

I will say though, that the most important skill is reliability. Turning up on time, doing your work and being completely honest, especially about mistakes.

That is where you get a really good reputation. And you get paid for your reputation.

As for being transgender, unless you need to work with customers, I suggest you say little or nothing at all.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: K8 on December 07, 2010, 08:25:30 AM
Quote from: spacial on December 07, 2010, 07:24:15 AM
I will say though, that the most important skill is reliability. Turning up on time, doing your work and being completely honest, especially about mistakes.

That is where you get a really good reputation. And you get paid for your reputation.

As for being transgender, unless you need to work with customers, I suggest you say little or nothing at all.

Being TS adds a complication, but you are TS.  It's just a hurdle that non-TS people don't have to jump.  But in most cases it isn't an insurmountable hurdle.  (Many on this forum are gainfully employed.)  Being in the US on a Green Card also adds a hurdle.  Having dark skin used to add a hurdle but perhaps the hurdle is a lot smaller now.  Being a woman can add a hurdle.  Having an accent can add a hurdle.  Lots of people have extra things they have to struggle against because of their background or what they are.

But you got your degree and so have proven that you can work toward a goal.  Getting a decent job is another goal to work toward.  Surgery is yet another.  You have already proven you can work toward what you want, and as you work toward the next goals you will get better at it.

Good luck, Maddie.  You can do it.  It'll just take time and effort and little bit of luck.

- Kate
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 07, 2010, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 07, 2010, 01:10:51 AM
This is why I apply to positions labeled as entry level so I don't have to compete with people who have years of experience who were recently laid off.  No I need to secure an actual career if I'm ever going to make this work.  I just hate how being TS makes my degree meaningless.

What about letters of reccomendation?  The problem is, as far as I can tell, that employers see someone with no experience and, yes, the liability of being transgendered.  It's not right it's not fair, but neither is discarding a resume from Quantavious just becuase he has a name associated with growing up in the ghetto, but it happens all the same.

College professors are a liberal sort to begin with, even engineering professors, at least one of them should be willing to write a letter outlining your skills.  Its no guarantee, but at least it reduces your liability to a company.  Logically speaking, employees are an investment, employers hire people becuase they are betting they will earn the company more revenue then their wages and benefits cost.  A glowing reccomendation letter should hopefully overrule their fears that your being transgendered is going to end up being their liability.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 07, 2010, 09:46:14 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 05, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
Ever heard the term "people know people who can help?"  This is from the notion that if I go to a support group I'll find someone who knows someone else who can help me out with the surgery situation.  I know I don't know anyone like this, so how about the rest of you.  I'm trying to put this issue to rest insomuch as I've at least explored the option of networking.  I figure what better than a site with a much larger pool of people than any local support group?

So do any of you have anyone who has helped you reach your surgery goal or are you, like me, financially on your own?

1.  I know of one person that lived at home, worked as a watress, I think, worked every day and every shift that she could, saved literally every penny and paid for her surgery in about a year.

2.  People have posted websites, for all kinds of financial requests, and have gotten the funds they were looking for.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 07, 2010, 12:10:08 PM
This is why I apply to positions labeled as entry level so I don't have to compete with people who have years of experience who were recently laid off.

You are kidding yourself if you think that.  Times are as hard as they have ever been for just about everyone under the age of 85.  I know of people with 20+ years of experience running and managing major retail outlets who are desperately trying just to get some seasonal Xmas work.  We were looking for a couple of people who would be willing to come in in January for about a week of work doing some maintenance work in the theater, real light stuff, painting, moving stuff, cleaning (stuff they didn't want to pay union guys to do) and it WAS NOT put on Craigslist, nor advertised anywhere, just word of mouth through the staff, and they have a huge stack applications.  People are desperate.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 07, 2010, 01:54:20 PM
I have probably missed something and for that I do apologise.

Does your ID read F yet? If not, why tell them? Why do they need to know anything at all?
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 07, 2010, 02:01:14 PM
Because of extreme liability issues almost any and every engineering position is going to do a full and complete background/credit check.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 07, 2010, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: tekla on December 07, 2010, 02:01:14 PM
Because of extreme liability issues almost any and every engineering position is going to do a full and complete background/credit check.

Understand.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 07, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
It's the basic norm, both the production companies I work for run background and credit checks on people applying to be janitors and ushers.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 09, 2010, 12:21:09 PM
I'm getting my current manager to do a letter of recommendation to bolster my standing in the rat race. 

Should I have her put in there have never been any issues related to my background?
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 09, 2010, 01:38:09 PM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 09, 2010, 12:21:09 PM
I'm getting my current manager to do a letter of recommendation to bolster my standing in the rat race. 

Should I have her put in there have never been any issues related to my background?

Your transgender backgroud?  Why call attention to it?  Or rather would you rather be known as the transgender engineer or the engineer who happens to be transgendered?  There are so many ways a potential employer could intrepret a former manager saying "there have been no issues", why have there been no issues?  Did you make it clear you'd sue for every percieved wrong?  Did you abuse the sick policy becuase you were having a bad hair day and looked like the bride of frankenstein?

Ask yourself, would somone with a visible disability ask their manager to do the same thing?
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 09, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Because it's going to be brought to attention when the employer does a background check.  And when they see my background they're going to assume that I am either mentally unstable, an HR nightmare, or a lawsuit waiting to happen.  A good letter of recommendation can put those notions to rest.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 10, 2010, 08:25:15 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 09, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Because it's going to be brought to attention when the employer does a background check.  And when they see my background they're going to assume that I am either mentally unstable, an HR nightmare, or a lawsuit waiting to happen.  A good letter of recommendation can put those notions to rest.

I absolutely agree with you on that point, however I wouldn't include it in the letter up front.  I would just have a standard letter of reccomendation ready to give to the interviewer.  Usually they're not going to do a background check until after they've made you an offer.  If you alert them up front to the fact that you maybe, possibly, could be a "problem employee" they're going to proceed accordingly.

When it comes time for the background check, there is usually a chance for you to disclose something the background check might uncover.  That would be the time to say something about being transgendered.  If your supervisor is as good of a reference as you feel they are, they will address it as part of your reference check anyways.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: K8 on December 10, 2010, 08:26:57 AM
I think that if your current manager says something about you fitting in well with the team, etc., that would cover whether there were problems with you being TS without specifically mentioning it.

- Kate
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 10, 2010, 11:14:36 AM
That sounds like a good way of doing it.  I wasn't going to include the letter along with my resume but it would come in handy to nullify any uncertainty about my ability to fit in. 
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 10, 2010, 03:04:55 PM
These background check which seem to be so ubiquitous in the US, frankly, seem creepy to me.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 10, 2010, 04:12:23 PM
They are, and don't worry they will be where ever you live next week.  And in a world where so much can be faked and lied about, it's nice to have a way to check it.  I've caught several people lying about having a PhD when I said, hey, lets go over to XXX web site (my secret, sorry) where they have a list of every dissertation accepted by accredited universities.  We give background checks right down to our janitors, which someone told me once was pretty dumb until I pointed out that a janitor has just about every key to the building, and is pretty much unsupervised most of the time.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: spacial on December 10, 2010, 06:30:55 PM
I have a feeling a lot of this will be covered by the Data Protection Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998)

Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 10, 2010, 06:51:17 PM
Not at all, you're asked to sign a form that says such a check is OK, (it also asks for past names you have lived under).  You don't have to sign it, but you won't get the job without it.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Cindy Stephens on December 11, 2010, 09:37:15 AM
I know that there are employer recruitment days for transgenders held in various cities.  Have you checked at least the names of the companies and maybe the recruiters at some of them? Looked at online editions of local gay newspapers for dates as well as job openings as well as companies who advertise in them?  That gives you a clue.   Have YOU advertised specifically stating your requirements for this?  Certainly while being cautious about your identity.  You might be surprised at the number of openly Gay/lesbian owners/senior managers at some of the more open minded  companies.  I believe that fate happens to those who put themselves into the path of it. Go underground, try gorilla marketing for you and your abilities.  Turn what YOU perceive as a negative into something positive.   Maybe it strikes a chord in someone in a position to help.  Who knows, maybe an older trans person who didn't transition, now can't, will take you on as a project.  I know that as an engineer, creativity is probably low priority in your tool box.  Now is the time to pull it out, or find someone who can help you with it. You have a BS in Engineering-you are obviously smart and able to learn.  Those are salable skills in many ancillary jobs and professions.  Keep open the idea that many people end up in a career different from what they first intended.  Life is funny that way.   The world is a thousand times more accessible, open, and accepting than when I was your age.  USE IT! Sorry, I've read the responses by the nattering nay bobs of negativism (to quote Spiro Agnew) and disagree.  There is the PERFECT job waiting for YOU.  Your job is to figure out what it is, how you fit into it, then find it.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 11, 2010, 12:21:48 PM
Yes and the perfect job is what I choose, not something I'm forced to accept.  I decided I wanted a career in the automotive or aerospace industry.  Only then did I make the choice go to school for engineering.  I'm not going to compromise on this.

And as far as finding someone to help me with my transition I don't want any help.  Even if one of my old friends won the lottery and decided now that it is convenient that they wanted to help me out I would say no.  It was never convenient for me.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 11, 2010, 01:13:52 PM
The perfect job may well be one you don't even know exists.  Do you know that Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus has several mechanical engineers on it's payroll?  One travels with each tour (I think there are two different tours).  The magic of theater that is Cirque du Solei, is more the magic of mechanical engineering than anything else.  Those extensive rigging operations, the dynamic rigging that has to be used to 'fly' people and all that takes people with top skills in mechanical engineering.  And both RRBBBC and CdS have to have people who are certified and have the legal authority of expertise to sign off on all of that.*  Best of all, both those engineers get to mix the static desk work with the real word grease and nuts and bolts of physically doing it (and fixing it).

I have a friend who signed on to do one year with RBBBC because he was a certified electrician and the construction industry was in a bit of a lull at the time.  You might say he did it for the laughs.  But that was 25 years ago.  You could not use dynamite to get him out of there now.  He found a career, a family, a culture and way of life that is totally unique.  Where he might have been a 'bit weird' for construction, being a 'bit weird' is pretty much a prerequisite for finding acceptance in the circus world.  They don't trust anyone who's not a bit weird.

Have you looked into doing union work?  The International Union of Operating Engineers or The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees both have mechanical engineers on their rolls.  Stage rigging companies need mechanical engineers to design, build, test, and certify their equipment like the chain motors, the trusses, the safety devices, all that stuff has has to be certified once a year by non-destructive evaluation.  F/X companies like the old Industrial Light and Magic hire mechanical engineers. 

And, where a lot of people on these boards have lost jobs under questionable circumstances, anyone who has ever worked with them knows that firing a craft-union journeyman is the world of work equivalent to picking a fight with Chuck Norris.

Lots of big time sporting events hire mechanical engineers.  NASCAR and every other motor sport, The America's Cup, and others all need people with those skills.  Lot's of boats in the South Florida area need people who can work on them with no questions asked if you know what I mean.  You get paid cash and you get a bitchin' tan to boot.


* - The insurance carriers for the casinos and venues insist on it.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Alexmakenoise on December 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM
This might be worth checking out if you haven't already:

http://transworkplace.ning.com/ (http://transworkplace.ning.com/)
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 11, 2010, 11:15:12 PM
Working for the circus could be interesting work.  However I refuse to join a union.  I had to work alongside IAM when I was at Harley Davidson for my co-op and holy crap do unions get in the way of efficiency. 

About those boats, did you mean fishing boats and the like?
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 12, 2010, 01:52:41 AM
If they pay cash, they pay it for you not to care what they use it for.

And, I love my union, but all I will say is this.  The union (cause then need the % they make off my work to bribe politicians, live it up, whatever) is very, very interested in me working.  If I don't work they don't make their cut.  They are very interested in me working.  They keep me working in fact more than I really want to.  Say what you will, but it's a whole lot better than sitting at home making zip.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 10:26:25 AM
I gotcha.  I suppose I tend to be an idealist in that I'd rather have someone interested in having me working because I'm great at what I do and not because they're making money off of me.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Julie Marie on December 12, 2010, 10:37:41 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 05, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
So do any of you have anyone who has helped you reach your surgery goal or are you, like me, financially on your own?

Totally on my own.  Every penny that went into HRT through GRS was/is totally out of my own pocket (about $50K to date).  My insurance coverage specifically excludes "sex transferral". 

BTW, that coverage is through the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.  Since I transitioned they have been denying every blood test I've had, regardless of the real reason, saying they didn't cover that even though they now require the test being done every year.  And when the contractor who I was working for was blatantly discriminating against me post coming out, my union said there was nothing they could do.  When it came to me returning to the field, they said they could do nothing to protect me from other trades.  So much for unions.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: tekla on December 12, 2010, 10:49:11 AM
I kinda like the idea that all I have to do is what I really like doing (shows) and don't have to do what I don't like doing, namely that constant hassle and flow to find work.  They are out there constantly securing work for me, and that kind of security in this biz is really worth the money.

As for being idealist:  Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality the cost becomes prohibitive  William F. Buckley said that by the way.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 11:01:46 AM
I understand your point.  So would I have to secure a position and then join the associated engineer's union or can I join their union and they'll secure it for me?

I suppose my grudge against unions is due to that in the manufacturing environment they added bureaucracy just gums up the works.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Julie Marie on December 12, 2010, 11:06:58 AM
Sure, unions do all that and for 35 years I very much appreciated that.  I made money and so did they.  And since I was usually working in a supervisory capacity at a higher pay, and they get a % of everything I make, I made them even more money.  Hell, when I was working in the office as a project manager or construction manager or electrical designer (11 years total), they really made out.  They collected their % and me working didn't take away a job in the field.

But in the end, they just couldn't get past the trans thing.  "It's a man's world and we don't want your kind around."  Once you come out, you get to see how much they really support you.

I still have a lot to offer and I'd love to be back to work, but with no support, it's just too risky.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 11:25:34 AM
Really at the end of the day what this boils down to is that I need to make more money than I am now in order to pay for SRS. 
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 12, 2010, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 11, 2010, 11:15:12 PM
About those boats, did you mean fishing boats and the like?

I wouldn't look in the cargo holds if I were you, the less you know the better...  :)
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 12, 2010, 08:17:57 PM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 10:26:25 AM
I gotcha.  I suppose I tend to be an idealist in that I'd rather have someone interested in having me working because I'm great at what I do and not because they're making money off of me.

Wait, that's the basic premise of every employer/employee relationship.  You make money for them to be able to afford to pay your salary and benefits.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 10:14:26 PM
Quote from: regan on December 12, 2010, 08:17:57 PM
Wait, that's the basic premise of every employer/employee relationship.  You make money for them to be able to afford to pay your salary and benefits.

What I meant was that I'm an asset to the company in that I do my job and they make money because I'm delivering results.  I don't want someone to want me there just because I'm a warm body to from which to deduct union dues.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 13, 2010, 06:15:09 AM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 10:14:26 PM
What I meant was that I'm an asset to the company in that I do my job and they make money because I'm delivering results.  I don't want someone to want me there just because I'm a warm body to from which to deduct union dues.

Try for a civil service job, same protections (mostly) and no dues.  Also look at major employers, there are many with trans friendly employment policies.  I think it was IBM that, if you transitioned on the job, moved you to another department so you were strictly known in your new gender.  Target, despite their boneheaded political contributions, is also supposed to be trans friendly.

This is a good starting point...

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/employer/index.htm (http://www.transgenderlaw.org/employer/index.htm)
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Julie Marie on December 13, 2010, 02:45:40 PM
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on December 12, 2010, 10:14:26 PM
I don't want someone to want me there just because I'm a warm body to from which to deduct union dues.

Don't worry.  If they know you're trans most trade unions will find a reason not to hire you.  If you transition on the job, they will find a reason to get rid of you.

So if you ever got hired by them with their knowing you're trans or they keep you employed after coming out, you know they need you.   :D


Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Maddie Secutura on December 13, 2010, 11:44:06 PM
I see.  Well right now I have an interview with Wells Fargo.  Hopefully everything I hear about their killer insurance plan is true.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: Alexmakenoise on December 14, 2010, 06:41:09 PM
Maddie, good luck with your interview.  I've recently been in the same place you are now, so I'll give you the advice I wish someone had given me.

One word: NETWORK.

You've gotten your degree and proven what you know.  Now it's who you know that matters.  And meeting people through networking is easy.  People who are successful in their careers network all the time and are always interested in meeting people who are fresh out of school and just getting started in the field.  Get yourself some business cards and go to a professional conference.  Introduce yourself to people, tell them you're a job seeker, tell them where you went to school and what your professional goals are, politely ask if they'd like to look at your resume, exchange cards.  As soon as you get home, go through all the cards you got and email everyone with your resume and a "pleased to meet you, thanks for your time" note.  You'll hear back from some, and may get a few responses along the lines of, "Pleased to meet you.  My colleague at ____ Company is looking to fill a position that would be a good match for your skills and interests.  I have sent her your resume and recommended that she call you to see if you'd like to interview."  That's a whole day of finding a good position to apply for and crafting the perfect cover letter replaced by a few minutes of meeting someone in person and emailing them your resume.  And you've been recommended by someone more established in the field, which puts you ahead of the other candidates.

Do a variety of networking activities.  Network with people more senior than you - they're well-connected and can give great advice.  Network with people your own age who are also just starting out - you'll learn from each other's successes and failures, and help each other out.  Pick a place where you'd really like to work and see if you can volunteer there.  It's a good way to show you can do what you say you can do and meet people in the field, and there's always a chance it'll lead to a job there.  Do some online networking too.  Get on Twitter and follow people in your field.  Start a blog where you write about something specific to your field.  Create a personal (professionally oriented) website.  Use your online networking to connect with people you hope to meet in person.

Seek out professional contacts who you have things in common with.  People who will appreciate your strengths, relate to you, and accept you for who you are.  These are the people who will be the most helpful.

Seriously, I sent out maybe 100 applications for jobs that were advertised online, didn't hear back from many, and was getting discouraged.  Then I went to a few networking events and suddenly was getting recommended for positions that were a much better fit than anything I had applied for and that I would not have even been aware of had I not networked.

There are plenty of jobs out there.  You just have to get out and meet the people who will help you find them.
Title: Re: Proof of Concept
Post by: regan on December 15, 2010, 10:34:27 AM
I actually got my current position through pretty much this mechanism.  Sometimes all it takes is knowing someone who works there and having them put in a good word for you.