Hey guys,
This is pretty much just me rambling and getting my thoughts in order, so feel free to ignore it. I'm one of those types of people who likes to sit on decisions as long as possible, and making them tends to scare me. Anyways, I just sent the LGBT center at my school an email asking if there is anyone on campus who deals with gender issues. I sent it thinking that, well, then I'll know in case I want to get my transition going in the future, but I realized that I really do want to go right now. It's the tiniest step towards transitioning, but my brain is starting to snowball everything involved into a "Holy crap, what did I do?" sort of thought. I live a great life now as a girl with good friends, a wonderful job, and a loving family. I live close to my family/childhood friends and am still on my dad's insurance, so it would be nearly impossible to keep it from them. I can't help but think that I'll screw everything up and lose everyone close to me if I go through with this. I also have no idea how to function in society as a man. Despite this, I've been looking at all of you guys and realizing that it is possible, and I do want to work towards transitioning. Right now, I'm just stressing over whether or not I can manage this.
Quote from: Lee on December 06, 2010, 02:58:49 AM
I also have no idea how to function in society as a man.
That's one of my worries too.
I think that's an excellent step. You don't have to worry about all the what ifs right now. You're just seeking some therapy (which is a good idea for anyone with gender issues regardless of transition plans). There's no rush to decide what to do about friends and family. When you're ready for that step, it will take care of itself. One step at a time.
QuoteQuote from: Lee on Today at 04:58:49 am
I also have no idea how to function in society as a man.
That's one of my worries too.
You'll learn like any teenage boy does. Yeah, it sucks that we didn't get all that socialization growing up but it feels awesome when it starts to happen.
Quote from: Forum Admin on December 06, 2010, 03:13:34 AM
You'll learn like any teenage boy does. Yeah, it sucks that we didn't get all that socialization growing up but it feels awesome when it starts to happen.
Yeah, almost 100% of my socialization has been around women. There's been times though that I really feel like I'm from another planet when around them. Maybe male socialization will be more natural. Or maybe I'm just weird.
I think looking for a therapist is a good first step too. I've had times where I wonder if transition would be a huge mistake. So I've been just taking baby steps. A small step, then see how you feel, then another small step...
I think the social anxiety part is why they call the 'program' I'm in, gender Reorientation Program. It sounds good in a letter but that is about all it does.
Quote from: Lee on December 06, 2010, 02:58:49 AM
I also have no idea how to function in society as a man.
Join the club. :laugh:
Seriously though, the main lesson I've learnt is to look for the alpha male and follow his lead.
Also, men seem to be almost to the point of being paranoid, about showing too many feelings, especially for each other. They don't smile so much as sneer. They are always trying to get one over each other, though trying to get one over on the alpha or his immediate betas, is likely to get you pushed down.
The trick is to get yourself into a lower situation, when you are acknowledged but not yet respected. Watch for anyone on the climb who might try to get one over on you. If you're at all unsure, have an escape. So, if someone does try to put you down, you can laugh at them, then walk away. But walk away with a purpose, so it doesn't appear that you've been defeated and are retreating.
That brings up another important point, men rarely laugh with each other so much as at each other.
Sorry if this sounds somewhat cynical and depressing I've spent most of my life trying to figure out how to be a man. But, unlike you, I do it because I have to. And I'd really rather not.
But good luck
Erocse and I are reading your post together. We always thought that you were transistioned and much older from your considerate and wise posts. You have always conducted yourself in a mature and masculine manner. It is only from this post we know that you are not. You are a man in our minds and a smart one too.
~Hugs~
The Erocse's
It's good that you're thinking about the big picture, but there's no need to let your fears about what could happen if you do fully transition prevent you from taking the first small step.
You're not transitioning. You're just making an appointment to see a therapist. That's all. And you're going to talk to the therapist about what's on your mind. This will help you to feel better. You'll start to sort out what you do want and why. Anything's possible, and there are no deadlines.
As for your fears about your parents finding out because of the insurance, talk to the therapist about that before they bill the insurance company. Therapists are required to maintain confidentiality, and if that means putting a different diagnosis on the bill they send to the insurance company, they'll do it. They probably encounter this kind of situation regularly and have a standard means of handling it.
Quote from: spacial on December 06, 2010, 09:02:38 AM
Join the club. :laugh:
Seriously though, the main lesson I've learnt is to look for the alpha male and follow his lead.
Also, men seem to be almost to the point of being paranoid, about showing too many feelings, especially for each other. They don't smile so much as sneer. They are always trying to get one over each other, though trying to get one over on the alpha or his immediate betas, is likely to get you pushed down.
The trick is to get yourself into a lower situation, when you are acknowledged but not yet respected. Watch for anyone on the climb who might try to get one over on you. If you're at all unsure, have an escape. So, if someone does try to put you down, you can laugh at them, then walk away. But walk away with a purpose, so it doesn't appear that you've been defeated and are retreating.
That brings up another important point, men rarely laugh with each other so much as at each other.
Erocse & I thought that was so true...... Erocse's family had 4 boys and one girl. (2 girls and 3 boys :D)
You've... pretty much summed up my current worries, except from the other side of the fence.
When it comes to functioning as male, don't worry too much - the male gender role isn't really that restrictive, and there's nothing someone raised as female would do that can't be done by a man. My own plan is to start by assuming my pre-existing behavior is good enough, and polish it as I become aware of differences along the road.
Transition isn't easy or fast. And for me, at least, the social aspect is the scary one, not the physical or mental. Take it slow, and let others set the tone in social settings where your old "programming" doesn't seem appropriate.
Thank you guys for your ideas and support. Last night was sort of my realization that, no, I can't deal with this myself or put off dealing with it and live happily, and it really bothered me. I tend to prefer to deal with my issues on my own, and the thought of having to bother another person about it makes me feel awkwardly out of control. I understand that the majority of my fears related to this are unfounded, but I have no idea how to deal with them if they come up.
jmaxley: I feel exactly the same way. Growing up in a family/group of friends that is very feminist/matriarchal, I know very few other guys, but I have also never been able to feel comfortable as one of the girls. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who is afraid of this.
The Erocse's: Thank you, that means a lot to me, but maybe I should go out and exercise my inner child for a bit. :P
Alexmakenoise: That is a good idea. I'd be slightly afraid of my parents finding out if I were speaking with a therapist at all, though, as I had issues with depression several years ago. I know that they still worry about it, and I'd hate to upset them. I'll have them put "Dealing with anorexia" on the forum. That will confuse the hell out of my parents. XD
I do feel a lot better today, though. My tritop just came, and I feel flat enough to be comfortable for the first time without ace bandages. I also heard back from the LGBT center. According to them, all of the counselors on campus are well trained to work with trans issues. They also directed me to a local gender identity center (who knew?) that holds a lot of trans groups and events. Having a bit more of a direction is definitely helping.
Quote from: Lee on December 06, 2010, 04:41:11 PM
Thank you guys for your ideas and support. Last night was sort of my realization that, no, I can't deal with this myself or put off dealing with it and live happily, and it really bothered me. I tend to prefer to deal with my issues on my own, and the thought of having to bother another person about it makes me feel awkwardly out of control. I understand that the majority of my fears related to this are unfounded, but I have no idea how to deal with them if they come up.
Transition is certainly overwhelming - dizzying, even. Just lower your eyes and stare at what's right in front of your feet, and take one step at a time. Before you know it, you'll have gotten far. For what it's worth, your posts here leave me confident that you have the mental fortitude to manage.
Best of luck to you.
Quote from: Forum Admin on December 06, 2010, 03:09:02 AM
I think that's an excellent step. You don't have to worry about all the what ifs right now. You're just seeking some therapy (which is a good idea for anyone with gender issues regardless of transition plans). There's no rush to decide what to do about friends and family. When you're ready for that step, it will take care of itself. One step at a time.
This is great advice right here. Totally agree. Good luck!
@ Nero:
Nero, what's up with "Forum Admin," man? I miss seeing your name here! Is your avatar Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners?" It would be awesome to see YOU in the avatar, man. :)
Lee,
I read in your original posting:
QuoteI live a great life now as a girl with good friends, a wonderful job, and a loving family.
QuoteI can't help but think that I'll screw everything up and lose everyone close to me if I go through with this.
Hellooooo, Lee.
I have been there and I do know the feelings.
But think about it, if everything is so good why do you feel so bad?
Why is life so wrong.
You need to work through this now.
I had a good family and I waited for over 50 years to do anything about my gender problem.
I pushed the feelings down and beat them back.
I created my own living hell and it was a very lonely place.
But I had a great family, job and friends.
The feelings won't really go away or get better.
Lee, I missed so much of life as it should have been.
At my age, transitioning late in life, I may never make to the point were I am real accepted as a women.
Please don't have pity on me.
I share my experience with you, so that you won't make my mistake.
When you start to get fearful or began to fined reasons not to go forward remember me, the sill person, Jillieann and all her lost years.
Go for it Lee, be all you can be.
I'm rooting for you.
Jillieann
Quote from: Lacey Lynne on December 07, 2010, 09:31:23 PM
This is great advice right here. Totally agree. Good luck!
@ Nero:
Nero, what's up with "Forum Admin," man? I miss seeing your name here! Is your avatar Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners?" It would be awesome to see YOU in the avatar, man. :)
Haha you don't want to see my ugly mug. :laugh:
Regarding socialization - I think one of the keys to remember is guys are more innocent than girls. By that, I mean there's more good faith. Two guys can get in a fight and then become friends afterwards. And a guy is more likely to say things to your face. Girls, it's all backwards. They'll smile and then plot against you. And every girl sorts you as to whether you're prettier or uglier than her. If she thinks you're uglier, she's your best friend. If you're prettier, watch your back. It doesn't matter how friendly you are with girls. You can't win them over. And if a guy laughs at you, he's joking. If a girl laughs at you, she's serious.
It's strange how nice girls suddenly are to me now I'm a guy.
Quote from: Lacey Lynne on December 07, 2010, 09:31:23 PM
@ Nero:
Nero, what's up with "Forum Admin," man? I miss seeing your name here! Is your avatar Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners?" It would be awesome to see YOU in the avatar, man. :)
I noticed the change of name as well. But the photo, I thought that is John Goodman.
Nero. Like your take on the relative differences between male and female socialisation.
Quote from: spacial on December 08, 2010, 06:06:59 AM
I noticed the change of name as well. But the photo, I thought that is John Goodman.
Nero. Like your take on the relative differences between male and female socialisation.
Well, it may seem a little harsh. Girls aren't all bad. Just underhanded. :laugh:
I've definitely noticed that, Nero. I will never understand how the majority of women think and act. Your post reminded me of a time back in high school when a friend of mine's sister came up out of the blue to ask me why I was mad at my friend. I told her that I didn't know I was mad. She was ticked off that I wasn't "being open" with her, and it turned into this big, dramatic issue. I still have no idea why my friend would have thought I was mad. ::)
I guess I can hope that people will take me more at face value if they see me as a guy....
Jillieann: As they say, better late than never, and I'm glad that you have found yourself. This was one of my thoughts going into this; I am about to graduate and will be moving near to whatever pharmacy school takes me, which will probably put me at least a few states away. Even if I can't pass, it'd be great if I could live full time amongst people who never knew me as a girl. It feels like there is a limited number of times that life will offer me a chance like this.
This seems to be the point for us though. We are forced, by our physical appearance, to associate with people with whom we have little in common.
I know my annalysis of male behaviour was necessary, simply to survive. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were to be for you.
But on a plus side, we can exchange notes as we do places.
Quote from: Forum Admin on December 08, 2010, 03:18:12 AM
Haha you don't want to see my ugly mug. :laugh:
Regarding socialization - I think one of the keys to remember is guys are more innocent than girls. By that, I mean there's more good faith. Two guys can get in a fight and then become friends afterwards. And a guy is more likely to say things to your face. Girls, it's all backwards. They'll smile and then plot against you. And every girl sorts you as to whether you're prettier or uglier than her. If she thinks you're uglier, she's your best friend. If you're prettier, watch your back. It doesn't matter how friendly you are with girls. You can't win them over. And if a guy laughs at you, he's joking. If a girl laughs at you, she's serious.
It's strange how nice girls suddenly are to me now I'm a guy.
From this description two of Erocse's brothers must be girls. HA HA HA....Sorry I could not help myself.
That brings up another important point, men rarely laugh with each other so much as at each other.
But not as much as they laugh at themselves.
QuoteWell, it may seem a little harsh. Girls aren't all bad. Just underhanded.
Thanks Forum Admin.
I do resemble that fact. ;)
You know that I've know you on here for many years.
And do kid yourself, you are cute sweety.
:-*
Jillieann
Quote from: Mrs Erocse on December 08, 2010, 11:07:09 AM
From this description two of Erocse's brothers must be girls. HA HA HA....Sorry I could not help myself.
I don't know these fellows, obviously, but you may be onto something here.
I confess, I've often been quite curious about men who seem so unsure of themselves in this way.
Women, by their nature, compete with each other on a one to one basis. Their peer groups are never as fromal as men's. I tend to believe that much of the intolerance shown by women, is a factor of thir personal positioning.
But men should have their positions within their peer group. Provided something doesn't threaten their position, or the alpha male, there really doesn't seem to be a lot to be gained by intolerance.
That suggests that, that type of intolerance is born out of their insecurity.
as M2F and still trying to work out all thats in my head i decided to start out by telling all those that matter most to me just WHO i am.
And the most amazing thing is happening ... they are all saying so? you are still you aren't you?
i spending more and more time as a woman and going out more.... i became very reclusive when i first found i NEEDED to step into the role of a woman as much as possible.
I found the more i was a woman the happier i was, the more i wanted to be a woman.... Counseling also opened my eyes to all the possibilities i had open to me.
Baby steps to begin tell those that matter most. and my parents were most upset my cried my dad cried because they thought they had let me down because i felt like i couldn't tell them when i first realized.... i was 42 when i told them..... Don't make my mistake... i lived in hell for at least 37 years
Thank you Majik.
That is both heart warming and inspiring. I'm really pleased for you.
Quote from: spacial on December 08, 2010, 07:28:41 PM
Thank you Majik.
That is both heart warming and inspiring. I'm really pleased for you.
I second what Spacial said.
Hugs.
Patty
Thank you Majik and welcome to Susan's
I'm glad that, after all that time, you can be accepted and happy.
Ho man, my situation is close to yours. Just think of it as a doorway, going to the psychatrist is one step, you still have time to see after that! Take it easy.
For me personally, I'v been putting if off for like 15 years or so just thinking I was 'different' then what society wants from women.When real life came, it hit harder then a brick into the face. And the thought 'I don't think I'm a girl at all, I hate all this woman crap' became a weird reality that was possible, and and my whole past shows, has always been there. I'm just gone take care of it before I go down.
Quote from: spacial on December 08, 2010, 11:05:18 AM
This seems to be the point for us though. We are forced, by our physical appearance, to associate with people with whom we have little in common.
Sometimes I wish I could frame a quote, this is so true. I feel like an alien in groups of women.
Same here Aikotribs, except it's in a group of men.
I never know what to say and just can relate.
I just feel so out of place.
One man no problem and if he's cute all the better.
:)
Jillieann
Quote from: Mrs Erocse on December 08, 2010, 11:07:09 AM
From this description two of Erocse's brothers must be girls. HA HA HA....Sorry I could not help myself.
Aww I hope I didn't come off too harsh.
Not at all.....Perhaps I did.
I got a hold of the counseling center here, and they're full for over a month. :(
I'm set with an appointment for January 24th, which I guess at least gives me a good amount of time to figure out what I want to say. However, it also means I get to spend winter break antsy about it.