So in order to gain more confidence plus the ability to look after myself, I joined an all male self defence class. I'm not out to anyone including the instructor. When I joined I expected some sort of instruction. What it actually is we are given sticks and told to attack each other. One guy leads attacking three times and I have to block him and then I attack three times and I am blocked. There are other exercises as well. Such as holding a heavy bag in front of me to protect myself while the other guy attacks with his fists, elbows, knees and head. It would be very easy for them to miss the bag and clock me at some point. It's tough work and I know they can tell I don't hit as hard as everyone else. Despite going to the gym constantly I still have a way to go before I am as strong as a grown man. Fortunately they seem to view me as a little brother and they do what they can to help me out. It's an amazing feeling to just be one of the guys.
My God they hit damn hard. I am literally covered with bruises. Most especially on my arm on account of the other guy attempting to knock my stick out of my hand. My elbow as well as I often use it as a point of attack. Fortunately I have a very high pain tolerance so when they strike me I don't even wince. I'm a bit worried about my wrist being broken so I bought a wrist guard. I had to make a harness out of a jock strap for my STP to hold is perfectly in place. We did practice groin kicks the other day and I was all ready to put on a show if someone did connect. Fortunately no one did but I got another guy! heh
I am learning quite a bit so that's good. I really hope I toughen the heck up very soon. Overall I really like it. It's such a rush when I am able to get the better of someone and I have just by dodging and bouncing around enough. I strike like a snake! It's good stuff and what an adrenalin rush.
That sounds totally cool...I want to take a self defense class now too
That's really great!! hope you do well!!!
I learned jujitsu and bit of karate and judo when I was 8... and I still am glad I did, I was not exactly a macho guy .. and had to go to an all guy school... I am 110% sure that things would be a lot worse if it had not been for that ....
there are few things I would like to point out though ...
an average guy loves to have a fist fight but only when its appropriate ... so in a self defense class ... one must expect to get hurt and be prepared for it...
also please avoid kicking/hitting guys in the groin as far as possible unless the instructor asks to practice them ... trust me it is extremely painful .. especially if you are not used to it ... even then it still hurts like someone just ripped part of your body very painfully out...
most guys would refrain from doing it to another guy ... coz it would just invite that person doing it to get the same treatment from others... and it is called a low blow for several reasons ... one of which is that guys generally do not like seeing another guy getting hit there and will be secretly annoyed at anyone who they see doing that to another guy.... :o :icon_yikes:
In case if you are looking for books to help you ... I recommend Bruce Tegner's books on martial arts ... old but the best books on martial arts out there...
edit: forgot to mention that Bruce Tegner's complete book of jukado self-defense : judo, karate, aikido (jiu jitsu modernized) is the best among all his books... also the one on judo...
learning a form of self defense is both useful and fun ... so have a blast!!! :laugh:
Way cool.
I've been trying to put the 'go to self defence class' bug in Sevans ear lately.
@Rob - You should man! It real good stuff.
@Vibes - Thanks for the advice and I'll check out those books! Don't worry most guys were prepared for the groin attack part of the class. They had cups and we all held bags to in front to protect further. I know better than to ever use that in everyday sparing.
@Cynthia - It's a good confidence builder. I would recommend it
I know.
I was trained as a teen.
That sounds awesome Squirrel! Wish I had something like that around here. Hope you keep doing well!
I do karate. Through a different methold of 'self defence', more structured (which i like, because i need structure)
It's predominatly male. I think i'm one of 3 "female" advanced students (green, blue, red, brown), and yeah.
Confidence is a huge up. I get paired up with bigger guys and higher belts pretty often, so.. you learn to get quick, fast.
That actually sounds like an odd structure for a self-defense class. Do they give you padding to put on? Also, in all the self defense classes I have been in, they don't do "real" hitting. Everything is just meant to go through the motions but not actually do any real strikes. There may be some getting tossed around - like a punch attack can be taken down through grabbing the persons arm then knocking them off balance with your leg, effectively throwing them to the mat.
Even when I was in karate and then kung fu class people were told not to use full force. We would do sparing - or sparing where one person would be the "attacker" and one would be using defensive moves, but we had on head, hand, groin and shin protection while we were doing it.
if i had money i'd do it. :/ I miss self defence classes
Glad you are enjoying the class. I have some MMA (training only) experience.
Many places differ in what kind of instruction they give on technique, what level of protection they have, etc.
Here is the warning part: While it is cool to learn the techniques, build up your strength & fitness, and be one of the guys, many places teach self-defense, martial arts, or mixed martial arts without any regard for your safety. It's just about more bodies, taking in more money.
There will always be guys there who think they are 'proving something' by wailing as hard as they can or who otherwise can't resist. And it can feel good to go as hard in your attack as possible. A *good* gym or dojo will have instructors who are paying attention to whether people are using proper technique and proper force as related to what's going on. It will also have an appropriate way of introducing beginners to the discipline - pairing beginner with beginner is a mistake, because neither knows how to avoid injuring self or others.
I don't know how delicate your skin is, but you shouldn't be leaving classes covered in bruises from learning self-defense as a beginner. You shouldn't be worried about your wrist getting broken. I'm glad you're being accepted. Just pay attention to protecting yourself, because it doesn't sound like the kind of place where other people do. This is very common.
For anyone else reading this and wanting to get started in self defense or martial arts or mixed martial arts, please observe a class first and/or take one as an introduction to the gym BEFORE you commit. You can tell the difference between whether they pay attention to safety or not pretty quickly. Don't think you can complain or try to 'change' the culture of a gym. If they are not concerned about preventing injuries, find another place where you can just relax and learn.
@insideontheoutside - No padding but people bring their own. There is certainly real hitting here and plenty of it. The sticks they give us are padded at a bit which might help. I was surprised but I'm getting use to it. They tell us to fight at 30% then 90% then just go completely crazy.
It's meant to present us with a real world situation so we will be prepared. This first quarter we are learning weapons and then it goes to ground fighting, hand to hand and another one which I forgot.
It's all good. I can take the lumps. There is also a woman's class and a youth class but I haven't seen those so I don't know if they would be different or not.
@Sean - thanks for the advice. I've bruised myself attacking to hard at times. It's not just being inflicted on me. Once there was one guy who hit me particularly hard and was told to ease off by the instructor. So they do watch but maybe they don't catch everything. So far I've been mostly paired with patient guys who try and help me more than anything. I do bruise fairly easily. I'm hope my skin becomes a bit tougher the longer I am on T.
@Tad - It's good times. But yes money is so tight right now. Sucks
mmm I love me some martial arts.
Took tae kwon do from age 5-16 and recently started up taking jiu jitsu. I know what you mean about being smaller/weaker. I'm a year on T, but in the scheme of things thats not much time that my muscles have had to bulk up compared to most people in my classes. I always get paired with the youngins. I guess a lot of them probably think I'm a lot younger than I am though. Its kind of frustrating because its hard not to compare oneself to others in that environment. Its really kind of the point (well when sparring or rolling)
Quote from: Squirrel698 on December 15, 2010, 12:28:11 PM
So in order to gain more confidence plus the ability to look after myself, I joined an all male self defence class. I'm not out to anyone including the instructor. When I joined I expected some sort of instruction. What it actually is we are given sticks and told to attack each other. One guy leads attacking three times and I have to block him and then I attack three times and I am blocked. There are other exercises as well. Such as holding a heavy bag in front of me to protect myself while the other guy attacks with his fists, elbows, knees and head. It would be very easy for them to miss the bag and clock me at some point. It's tough work and I know they can tell I don't hit as hard as everyone else. Despite going to the gym constantly I still have a way to go before I am as strong as a grown man. Fortunately they seem to view me as a little brother and they do what they can to help me out. It's an amazing feeling to just be one of the guys.
My God they hit damn hard. I am literally covered with bruises. Most especially on my arm on account of the other guy attempting to knock my stick out of my hand. My elbow as well as I often use it as a point of attack. Fortunately I have a very high pain tolerance so when they strike me I don't even wince. I'm a bit worried about my wrist being broken so I bought a wrist guard. I had to make a harness out of a jock strap for my STP to hold is perfectly in place. We did practice groin kicks the other day and I was all ready to put on a show if someone did connect. Fortunately no one did but I got another guy! heh
I am learning quite a bit so that's good. I really hope I toughen the heck up very soon. Overall I really like it. It's such a rush when I am able to get the better of someone and I have just by dodging and bouncing around enough. I strike like a snake! It's good stuff and what an adrenalin rush.
Awesome man!! I'd love to do that!!
Do you mind me asking what's the name of the class?? If it's a big company they might have those classes in my area as well. ;D I'm NJ/NY.
@GnomeKid - It is awesome. I know they incorporate a lot of techniques from Martial Arts. Hopefully at the end of this year I will actually have some terms I can relate. I'm taller so I get paired with people my age but usually those who are of average strength. I can keep up fairly well. Besides the point is to learn how to take down someone who might very well be larger than you.
@Tyler - The class is called "Elite Defense Systems." http://elitejkd.com/ (http://elitejkd.com/) I don't know if there is more than just the two in the Chicago area but you never know. I'm sure there are classes like it all over the place.
Just wanted to point out that a lot of people feel their height/body frame would be an issue...
However, this is not true at all ... in most forms of martial arts except for karate the shorter and faster you are the better... just ask your instructor about what would be better for you...
There are actually more techniques out there that favor people who are not heavy nor too tall... example: a lot (IMHO most) of jujitsu and judo throws favor the person who is shorter as they would be more difficult for a taller opponent to execute on the other ... and in kung fu the more faster/agile the better...
And I have successfully used these methods to get by in my school (and once in college) which was more like a fight club against guys 3 times my size and often taller than me (all the teachers ..even the principal/head master in my school would go in to a room during the break and not come out and then almost 98% of all the guys would start fighting each other ... sometimes for fun ... sometimes seriously... guys school can be hell but at least I learned how to fight..)
edit: would also recommend that although most people prefer karate because it is very popular and easy to learn it is not the best ... it concentrates more on strength so it would almost always favour a stronger/taller opponent .. what I do recommend is jujitsu as I have tried learning several types of martial arts when I was a kid found that it had the best balance .. didn't concentrate on strength like karate nor focus only on holds/throws/falling like judo and takes a much more scientific approach when compared to most forms of kung fu...
Squirrel, good for you that you have taken the plunge to not be a victim. In training you will get back what you put into it. If you train lightly you will get light results but if you play hard you will get deeper results. The bruising will get better and will not last so long before it is gone. People who train hard will heal faster than those who don't. I studied Isshinryu and juijitsu and I played hard. I wasn't always smart and damaged my knees in the process but I am much better off than I was before. I can still hold my own in a difficult situation if needed and I don't hold back. I learned the hard way-hesitation will get you killed or at the least severely injured. Just remember a little information will get you killed but diligent study will save you. Two and Three step sparring can give you insight but will not give you flowing movement that is effective. Only by getting in the heat of battle can you get the flow of motion you need to come out unscathed.
The worst butt whooping I ever got was from a 14 year old girl and I was 39 years old-it's not how strong you are but how smart/disciplined you are that makes the difference.
Randi
It's seems you've found a community of men where you get to develop a relationship with differently from what we normally get, it a very good way. It sounds like good group, guys coming together when fighting learning with each other as apposed to against each other. I'm glad you found this place.
Quote from: Randi on December 16, 2010, 10:39:04 PM
If you train lightly you will get light results but if you play hard you will get deeper results. The bruising will get better and will not last so long before it is gone. People who train hard will heal faster than those who don't.
Getting beaten/bruised is not "training hard" that's training stupid imo. Even endurance athletes have limits and train so as not to sustain injuries. In martial arts, you're not less of a man if if protect yourself with padding while sparring. And just because you use padding doesn't mean you're training "lightly". This is the kind of mindset that seems to be spurred on by things like MMA and cage fights. A number of martial arts (for instance the fighting form of Tai Chi) teach movements to avoid violent contact with an opponent (and to use that opponent's technique and force against them) - not to go balls out and sustain injuries (and yes, bruising is an injury).
Also those who train hard heal faster? Smart athletes know better than push themselves to a point of an injury that takes a long time to heal. Even a triathlete or the best martial artist can have debilitating injuries that take a long time to heal. Ever rip a tendon? That's not the type of thing you want to do over and over and it takes a very long time to heal once it happens - no matter how good of shape you're in.
Also, like Sean was saying, there are many gyms/dojos/etc that do not pay attention to safety. And there's also an amount of guys in those classes who are high off their own testosterone (hell I've even seen women in classes that go over the top aggro). Unless you're in a very specialized class for "iron" training (palm, fist, body) taking repeated blows to "build up" yourself seems like it's more tied into some macho aggression thing than real training.
It is very true that once you're taking higher classes in martial arts you can almost always expect to take a blow now and then or get throw to the mat. You can expect to have to do things like 100 sit ups or other extreme exercises before you even start with training of the day. You can also often expect that there will be that one person in your class that wants to go all out, no matter what the instructor says. And as with any sport or training, there is the potential for real injury. But every class I've been in has tried to minimize this by closely watching students, correcting forms and offering protective gear in sparring situations.
Inside,
If you want to disagree with what I said that's ok-I know what I said works because I got the belt to prove it-they don't just give those away. You are right that you should be careful or you will get injured but you have to give everything you have in order to get the greatest results.
Randi
Quote from: Randi on December 17, 2010, 07:09:00 AM
Inside,
If you want to disagree with what I said that's ok-I know what I said works because I got the belt to prove it-they don't just give those away. You are right that you should be careful or you will get injured but you have to give everything you have in order to get the greatest results.
Randi
There were no belts in ancient martial arts. When I was involved with karate, kung fu and tai chi I refused to participate in the belt system because I did not need a rank or award to get something out of the training. I have no need to prove it, but that's just me. If having a colored belt floats your boat, good for you. All I'm saying is that is a more modern mindset that does not align totally with the ancient arts. Also, it is not honorable or respectful of oneself or one's opponent if you use force where force is not needed. There are plenty of ways to train hard and get out any aggression without taking it out on someone else or injuring yourself.
And @Squirrel698 I don't mean to hijack your thread! I'm glad you're getting something out of the class, just be aware of the safety factor. It sounds like the other guys in the class look out for you so hopefully you'll do well.
My father made my instructor promise to refuse too use a belt system of rewards with me when I trained in my youth.
That's all well and good but since it wasn't my school I did what I was told and learned. In Okinawa there were two color belts-White & Black. If you don't want colored belts to signify gradual progression that is great but don't discourage others from studying at a good school that might use this system.
Squirrel, I hope you have found a good quality instructor and use this time wisely-it will pay off in the long run.
Randi
Marital Arts classes and schools can be run by several principals, you can do it for sport (codified rules), for general self-defense/physical workouts, for spiritual enlightenment, and as a training school for violent thugs. Some of those require that training, at least a considerable degree of it, be practiced at full speed, full contact with only the most minor rules (nothing to the head) because if you ever need to use it, that's the way its going to come down, full-speed, full-contact. Despite all that Hollywood show-biz fight stuff (which is much closer to dance than it is to fighting) most fights I've ever seen go down in my life last (as a 'fair' fight) about one punch. One guy gets the drop-off on the other one and out go the lights. Because in any street fight, once you're put to the ground, you've pretty much just lost, the only issue left is how much you are going to get really hurt.
Heh, no problem Insideontheoutside! This is interesting just and things I should be considering. I am aware of the safety factor and so far so good.
Randi - Thanks for the advice and I'm going to do my best to learn as much as I can. By training hard I don't just read throwing yourself into practice but also working on the techniques outside of class. Which I should start doing and thanks for the reminder.
Tekla - This school has another principal, how to defend against violent thugs. The curriculum is a combination of various Marital Arts forms, including Juijitsu and T'ai Chi Chuan. They told us they recreated them a bit in terms of how to react when you are attacked as opposed to be the attacker. For example Knife Tapping from Filipino Martial Arts is turned around so instead of trying to cut someone we are learning how to block against a knife attack.
Thank you Joseph
I love doing karate, and it's introduced me to an amazing group of people.
I was forced to 'come out' maybe two or three months into it when I attended my first sparring class (they normally don't allow white belts to spar, but made an exception for several of us). The instructor called for a cup check and... yeah. Didn't have one, because I don't pack. He even tried to give me money to run to the store and buy one, heh. So I "left", then came back and asked to talk to him in the office. His response was, "-shrug- Okay. Now go out there and hit people for my amusement." And when he told the other instructors, he said that their reaction was "In a group with a blind guy, a colour-blind guy, a midget, a giant, and a bunch of sociopaths, he ain't nothing special."
What I like about my class is that there is no differentiating between men and women. Everyone's expected to do the same amount of work, and there are no adjustments to exercises or body conditioning unless you're sick, injured, or disabled. So no 'girl push-ups'. We all take the same class, we all play with each other, and new guys that come in and complain because they 'don't want to hit a girl' (or take issue with being hit by a girl) are VERY quickly corrected. Everyone wears the same uniform.
Safety is also a huge issue and our instructors watch to make sure we pair up with the correct people for the exercise and are playing safe. Even for those of us who have a tendency to ignore pain or illness will be prevented from doing certain exercises or body conditioning until better, or put on a light/alternate exercises (though we'll get yelled at for being stupid and aggravating the injury by ignoring it in the first place, heh...)
Karate has done wonders for my balance, self confidence, and strength; particularly upper-body. A few months ago I couldn't do a single push up and could barely hold myself up. Now I can do about ten shallow ones. Which is... a huge improvement, because I've played sports since I was four and never made the same level/amount of improvements in my upper body strength.
I've also found this site to be amusing and informative, if you'd like to learn more about martial arts (yay Stumble Upon!):
http://www.badmartialarts.com/index.php (http://www.badmartialarts.com/index.php)
Quote from: Squirrel698 on December 15, 2010, 12:28:11 PMWhen I joined I expected some sort of instruction. What it actually is we are given sticks and told to attack each other.
That doesn't sound like an effective self defense class. Unless you are constantly carrying around sticks, sticks will not be much use in self defense.
QuoteMy God they hit damn hard. I am literally covered with bruises.
My friend can hit really hard, and he's always trying to get me to learn MMA and stuff. But you should really be learning technique before you start beating the crap out of each other. My friend learned the hard way that "training hard" and conditioning his body wasn't as useful as learning the proper fighting technique.
If all you are doing is punching people and obtaining bruises, but you aren't learning HOW to punch, then your training is going to be mostly a waste of time if you are ever in a real self defense situation. It sounds like you are learning how to take a hit, NOT how to defend yourself. Self defense is all about incapacitating your opponent so you can get away. It's not about giving them bruises. Any given person can be stunned momentarily by hitting them in one of the various weak points on the body. Only someone who has done serious conditioning to strengthen these points is going to take a blow like that and not have the fight knocked out of them.
Real fighting is about physics. The body has leverage, weak points, strong points, speed, strength, and mobility. The values of these physics determine the best way to attack any given opponent.
QuoteWe did practice groin kicks the other day and I was all ready to put on a show if someone did connect. Fortunately no one did but I got another guy! heh
As I was born male, I can attest to exactly how painful it is to get hit in the groin. I'm not even very sensitive there, and I wouldn't want to take a hit there. If I were ever attacked by a man, that would probably be the third place I would look for an opening.
Keep in mind that a groin hit only works on someone who hasn't trained their pain tolerance. It won't do any damage to their arms, legs, elbows, knees, or anything else that they are going to be using to put the hurt on you.
Unless the T toughens up your skin or builds some muscle, you will probably remain the small fry of the group. But remember that real self defense is about abusing your advantages, not your disadvantages. You probably have more speed and flexibility than larger guys. If you can get them to the floor, they are playing on your turf. Grappling is about flexibility and leverage. Raw strength is useless if they cannot remove themselves from your holds. Also remember that most of the serious martial artists who have trained for decades usually don't have huge muscle. They tend to be small and fast, but they are tough enough to take hits.
I also agree with Tekla. A streetfight probably won't last more than a few hits. There are no rules. One party will often be outnumbered or outmatched. If the fight is fair, then the winner will probably be the first person to land a blow to the opponent's weak points.
Martial arts is great for self-confidence, but don't let that new found self-confidence make you overconfident. That gets people hurt real bad. I see more people hurt trying to do that little bit of martial arts they think they know against people who really know how to fight (and really, really like it, because they LOVE violence, violence is their best sexual release).
My step dad, a Viet Nam vet. and also my first instructor made it very clear and simple when I asked him what belt he held... "You will either survive or you will not survive an attack... Your attacker does not care what kind of belt you are wearing"
Nothing against the belt system, it is great for sport or to monitor one's progress in a martial arts class that uses it
Your best defense is awareness and the ability to act upon that awareness