I've been away for the forum for a while and will update everyone later - lots of changes for me, but I've been exposed to some new friends and experiences that have allowed me to continue to explore my inner self.
So, I'm finding that I really want to have a pussy and breasts. When I ask myself why, one of the main reasons is that I want to be able to have sex with a man as a woman and I want a man to want me like a man wants a woman. I want to give myself over to a man and be taken by him, but also I want to pleasure him - especially a man with whom I have feelings.
Is this a common feeling for mtf folks? I'm asking because these feelings are stronger for me than any desire to dress as a woman, which seems to be an important thing for many others. I think that I could transition and still wear jeans and a shirt, though I do prefer something flowery or colorful. Its difficult for me to know how either a man or woman feels, since I've always felt somewhat in between.
I definitely feel feminine inside and can relate to women much better even though I love being around the guys. Lately I've been thinking about what I might loose should I transition. I think my relationship with the guys would change. I probably would not be privy to the guy talk that I am now, and in the culture I'm living in now, the men and women usually separate by sex at social functions. I was talking to one girl the other day and she does not like that - she wants to be with her husband. I could tell that she was upset from across the room and I went over and she had a little cry while we talked. If I was a woman, I would miss being with the guys.
Well, I needed to get back in touch with family here at the forum and would like to hear your comments.
Hi Robertina
Great to see you again.
I can identify with most of what you've written.
I really hope you can achieve your goal lovely.
Is this feeling not what differenciates a transsexual from a crossdresser ? Do not worry about it and maybe take this as some kind of confirmation, if you ever needed one, that you really are headed for the right path, I guess. And do not feel perverted about it. It's pretty normal to have sexual needs, and women usually do not feel like being men, and you pretty much seem to be a woman to me, haha.
Honestly robertina...that feeling of "omg hes about to make me feel like a woman by entering me and making me feel all types of good" only lasts the first few times you have sex. At least for me, i have only had sex with my boyfriend and now...it kinda feels like work i guess.
its not all that its hyped up to be ya know...hahaha
Robertina stay as a man and enjoy talking about pussy with the other guys. you'll be happier that way.
For me it would be the final validation. Yes I know, why do I need that validation? Because I do. I don't have to explain that to anyone.
It is like the keystone to an archway. Yes, no one would know any different, from now til then. But I do and that is what makes the difference.
The sex is not even a consideration. If that happens then great otherwise I already am treated like a woman, good and bad. I am seen as a woman in every eye, including my own. I am blessed in that my journey has only had a few bumps.
i already have a pussy...she's sat on my lap purring. :laugh:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2Fhs376.ash2%2F65435_139548262766483_100001339301387_184979_1586333_n.jpg&hash=e951fd90199aee5b4fe6b551442e9a20d7248e91)
In my early life, before SRS, I would have said the EXACT same thing. The only minor way that we differ is that I knew for sure that that was how I felt from my earliest memory, but that is really only my good luck. The only thing that matters is that you know it now.
You want a 'pussy'? Then check out your local animal shelter, there are plenty of cats looking for a nice new home.
From some of the replies, I think I may have offended a few with my use of the word "pussy." I meant no offense, and I think everyone knows I am speaking about a vagina (its a common word here in the US but almost never used to describe a cat, except when trying to be funny).
@Liliac, I don't regularly sit around and talk to the guys about vaginas, but I do find it helpful and interesting to learn what other people think and how different people view things. It helps me better understand them and myself.
@Janet, yes, maybe I am seeking a form of validation since my path has not been what many consider the norm in that I have not entertained transgendered feelings since childhood nor have I crossed dressed to any extent. Of course I spent my childhood and much of my adult life trying to please others, which gave no time for self exploration.
KillBelle:
Why do you say that having sex feels like work?
Robertina:
I totally understand you. I also keep thinking of late that I would not mind female plumbing and for a guy to "take me". It is hard to comment on whether or not having sex with a guy would be considered work, but I can imagine that having to "clean up" afterwards would be a drag. I am an extremely clean person, so that means draining out his load and taking a shower. That might get tedious. It is almost impossible to tell how I would feel if I ever did that or in the long term. I leave that to others, although everyone is different.
What I can tell you is that sleeping with a straight woman can make guys look attractive, as straight women want a guy and leave no stone unturned in their efforts to keep their partners masculine. On the contrary, a straight guy would want and expect a female for a partner.
There is a validation element. I can see that, but their can be feelings too. You (and I) are just exploring what it means to be a female and these feelings are par for the course.
I identify with the desire to be able to experience normal hetero sex with a man, and being able to give him what any other woman can.
But for me it's still not as important as feeling normal in my own body and comfortable with it. Even if I passed 100% of the time and I'm totally accepted as a woman by everyone else I still would not feel complete.
I can even do away with sex altogether if that's what it meant, although that may get a little frustrating. :D
Yeah, a towel is part of the answer, not to mention douching.
I forgot to add that I do not have any desire to "pleasure him." We should both find sex enjoyable.
We shall see what happens. The thought of getting a disease crossed my mind too.
Speaking of feeling like a woman, it is interesting how difficult it is to truly feel like a woman, when you have a penis between your legs reminding you all the time that you are a guy. You have to hide it. You cannot wear normal women's clothes easily. Bikinis are difficult to impossible to wear and not comfortably. Having straight female sex with a guy in your vagina is, of course, not possible. A fake strap on vagina does not count.
The one thought that keeps crossing my mind is would I truly like a vagina better than a penis? I think about that all the time. I cannot say that I use a penis often and when I do I am bothered that I am the guy. If I ignore many things, I can say that the sensation is not bad, although seeing myself as a guy sucks. It boils down to the question I asked myself in school. How do I know what I want to be, when I have never been anything? How do I truly know that I would have no regrets and truly like a vagina better if I never had one and a penis, even though I dislike it the uber vast majority of the time (all the time?) and go to lengths to hide it and etc. Thoughts and dreams are different than reality.
I can say that living as a woman feels totally right. I love my female name and feel right being called ma'am. I hate body hair, want a full female set of hair, and cannot wait to get my breasts fully developed. I can hear someone tell me the adage: "have your cake and eat it too" or "left side okay. Right side okay. Middle of the road, squashed like grape." Basically, I am afraid of change.
Okay, I am so way off topic and sidetracked the topic.
Back on to topic, I understand the original assertion. The more that I develop as a woman, the more female thoughts I have. At one point, I thought only to dress like a girl and be a girl. I never thought of being with a guy, and if I did the thought yuck came to mind. Some people transition like a lightening bolt. I seem to take cautious steps and grow at each step.
Wearing female clothing is important, and I fight for that right every day. I have a partner that is embarrassed and self professed "very straight", who fights me on the topic. I do remember a phase wearing nail polish and sporting long nails. That is not so important to me these days, although I still like nail polish. Now my attention is definitely on more adult topics.
I still would like to know what gay / straight means to someone who is trans and pre-op. That term seems quite meaningless to me. Gay could mean sleeping with a woman, very easily. Actually, gay to me is that.
I respond to the OP in the affirmative, except that my interest in sex with men is more theoretical than deep attraction at this point.
I fantasize about various levels of sexual involvement with men - always with men - but I never spend much time mulling an actual relationship with a man, romance and dating and so forth.
I'm not sure what that means except that it feels like an incomplete process is going on, mentally as well as physically.
but the plumbing? I most definitely want the right plumbing even if a man never ever sees it or touches it.
Even with all the maintenance that involves.
Quote from: sarahla on December 18, 2010, 09:02:10 PM
KillBelle:
Why do you say that having sex feels like work?
Sex feels like work to me mostly because i spent the last 365 days with my boyfriend having sex and after a while...i just dont want to do it as much. i am very busy all the time with my job, if it isnt my job then i am volunteering at the nearby elementary school or the homeless shelter down the street for the holidays. Then i gotta worry about laundry, the gym, breast cancer marathon, dinner every night, family parties, decorating the house for the holidays, then new years, then a trip to las vegas so he can gamble. So by the end of the night when i lay down i am exhausted and just not in the mood for sex. but i gotta do my part in satisfying him =]
so yes sometimes it is work lol
Quotebut i gotta do my part in satisfying him
okay, I'm somewhat out of place here being FTM, but the title piqued my interest and so does this last comment. Let me quote a friend of mine, biologically male. Okay, by quote I mean loosely translate from Korean to English something we talked about in public transport, but whatever. He once said to me, "a man should practice making his lady feel pleasure, not expecting things the other way around. Why? Because a penis is easy. -replace actual dialogue about how male anatomy work with your own PG material here- And mostly, if you really like this girl you should realize it's the gentlemanly thing to do."
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but sexual intimacy should be "work" for both parties, so you both feel "appreciated and satisfied."
Quote from: JosephKT on December 19, 2010, 03:50:30 AM
okay, I'm somewhat out of place here being FTM, but the title piqued my interest and so does this last comment. Let me quote a friend of mine, biologically male. Okay, by quote I mean loosely translate from Korean to English something we talked about in public transport, but whatever. He once said to me, "a man should practice making his lady feel pleasure, not expecting things the other way around. Why? Because a penis is easy. -replace actual dialogue about how male anatomy work with your own PG material here- And mostly, if you really like this girl you should realize it's the gentlemanly thing to do."
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but sexual intimacy should be "work" for both parties, so you both feel "appreciated and satisfied."
Hey Joseph, i get what you are saying, trust me i do...in a lot of ways though it's either ya blow/sex him or he will be whining and begging all night until you do. I always figured ok, either i can just give in or spend the next 3 hours not getting any sleep and giving in anyway because i get tired of the nudges/guilt trips/puppy dog faces.
I also find efficiency in the sense that tomorrow will be another hectic day, he's working long hour shifts, hes working his butt off at the desk, i am a teacher, my job is not as crazy nor hectic. I can at least be a good girlfriend and give in to him. People can say whatever they want about how wrong it is, but there shouldnt be anything wrong about a woman giving in to a man sexually because she loves him and he loves her back.
Heck the girls who are against compromising and giving in to their bfs/husbands from time to time are also the ones who complain about their husbands/boyfriends not being romantic enough, or taking them out enough, or surprising them enough with sweet little things. Hell i know i keep my man in check because i know i am the one wearing the pants in this relationship!! It's called having an iron pussy!
When I saw the title I thought it might be a humorous post too. I was going to say, have the one my son left when he moved in with his girlfriend!
I can understand where you are coming from. I am taking my time with assembling a wardrobe and trying to spend as little as possible doing it. My main interest so far has been facial laser hair removal, and as that is nearly finished I will be looking for a speech therapist to change my voice. HRT will hopefully start in a few months, and then comes living full time.
Any clothes I buy will probably not fit by then anyway, so it will be time to hit the shops in a big way then.
For me my primary feelings of being transgender are not centered around receiving the affection of guys. For me it's been more about feeling like I'm a female spirit trapped in the wrong body. I have enjoyed the female clothing that I've been able to get through the years, and certainly do imagine myself as "female" 100% of the time I'm intimate (with myself or others). But I can't say that I crave the attention of a man. If anything I suppose I think of myself more as a lesbian.
Does the fact I don't crave the attention of a man make me less likely to feel right after transition?
As to the main topic of this thread, I feel very much the same. For a long time I thought I was just a CD. My desire to have a vagina and experience sex from the "other side of the bed" I explained away as a kink. However, over time I realized the clothes were not enough. What I really wanted was a full female body and to have the world see me as and treat me like a woman. Everything else were half measures to make me feel better in the body I had. I would be lying if I didn't say clothes didn't have some importance, but I realized I was trans when I considered I wanted to be a woman even if I was forced to wear ugly sweat suits for the rest of my life.
As for the topic Dee just brought up, I think I may be experiencing the beginnings of it. I have lost just about all feelings of lust for women. I have noticed that I notice certain types of men a bit more as in "he is kinda cute," but nowhere near the strong attraction I used to feel for women. Basically, right now I feel confused and unfinished. Like a half-baked cake, if that makes any sense.
My first reaction is that your choice of language makes you sound like a troll. That aside, there's nothing wrong necessarily with the way you feel. In large part becuase of the gatekeeper system and Blanchard's crappy theories, as MtFs we're afraid to discuss some of our more um "impure" thoughts.
I don't know your personal story, but just based on your choice of words I would think very carefully about the choices you make in expressing your gender/sexuality. Depending on how far you go with it before the reality of your situation sets in, you may not be able to go back. IMHO, your interest seems to be more in role playing then in the actual day to day aspects of being a female (non-sexual roles, etc). Again think long and hard about the choices you make.
Quote from: regan on December 19, 2010, 02:35:37 PM
My first reaction is that your choice of language makes you sound like a troll. That aside, there's nothing wrong necessarily with the way you feel. In large part becuase of the gatekeeper system and Blanchard's crappy theories, as MtFs we're afraid to discuss some of our more um "impure" thoughts.
I don't know your personal story, but just based on your choice of words I would think very carefully about the choices you make in expressing your gender/sexuality. Depending on how far you go with it before the reality of your situation sets in, you may not be able to go back. IMHO, your interest seems to be more in role playing then in the actual day to day aspects of being a female (non-sexual roles, etc). Again think long and hard about the choices you make.
Well, I'm not a troll, just trying to work through things with the help of my trans family here. I don't think you can know my story by one post and the use of a slang word for vagina. I don't role play, so I don't know what you mean by that. I don't try to pretend to be someone, I just am who I am. As to choices, yes, every person should think long and hard before undergoing a life changing experience, which is one of the reasons that I seek feedback here at Susans.
One reason I started this thread was because I had concerns about having more of a desire for female anatomy than for having female clothes, but I guess I'm not unique in that. I probably look at everything in the light of relationships (being codependent), so I focus on how transitioning would affect my relationships with others, especially a life partner. I'm not to the point that I can say I would want to transition even if I never had sex again. I might get to that point sometime, but not yet (maybe I'd feel different if I were younger).
In the mean time, I'm letting my hair grow and will continue the search for who I really am, with the help of those who are on the same journey or who have made it already.
I had concerns about having more of a desire for female anatomy than for having female clothes
Which is the real deal about being a transsexual in the first place.
Yeah, I think we should cut her some slack on the terminology. I used (and preferred) that term throughout my life as a female as do many women.
When I saw the thread title, I did wonder what it was all about. When I saw it had been written by Robertina, it was no really surprise.
Robertina has had a hug and reassurance here before and contributed back as well.
It's always nice to see you Robertina.
Sitting in judgment isn't my gig.
The topic is not overly offending anyway.
Of I want to be a complete woman as well, but I do love nice cloths so for me. I want it all! So diet diet diet till I get it all!
hugs everyone
Simone.
I see clothes as an easy way to see myself as a female, so wearing them and buying clothes I like (being a conscious spender of course) make me feel I'm seeing what I can be. If SRS weren't such a huge wall to overcome, I think so many of us would have it done in a matter of months since initially discovering its possibility. Spending years with a reduced or non-existent sex life for the time it takes a majority to finally get to the procedure leaves a lot of time to think, and question ourselves. To me, this time is the biggest killer, trying to doubt myself, find some way to rationalize how I used to be or should be that society would prefer. Ultimately maybe all of this time to think will help in the end, after its all done the questions have already been answered, and I could get on with my life.
Like everyone else so far, I agree its not the clothes - its the body. If it was just the clothes, I'd be a happy well adjusted crossdresser and I wouldn't worry about the rest of it.
Quote from: Melody on December 19, 2010, 12:07:34 PM
As to the main topic of this thread, I feel very much the same. For a long time I thought I was just a CD. My desire to have a vagina and experience sex from the "other side of the bed" I explained away as a kink. However, over time I realized the clothes were not enough. What I really wanted was a full female body and to have the world see me as and treat me like a woman. Everything else were half measures to make me feel better in the body I had. I would be lying if I didn't say clothes didn't have some importance, but I realized I was trans when I considered I wanted to be a woman even if I was forced to wear ugly sweat suits for the rest of my life.
As for the topic Dee just brought up, I think I may be experiencing the beginnings of it. I have lost just about all feelings of lust for women. I have noticed that I notice certain types of men a bit more as in "he is kinda cute," but nowhere near the strong attraction I used to feel for women. Basically, right now I feel confused and unfinished. Like a half-baked cake, if that makes any sense.
Melody, I am right there with ya. I don't feel the same way about women... the dynamics have completely changed. It's not rare, either, it happens to a lot of us. Dee is right, hormones really do rewire our brains. I'd like to explore this a bit further actually, but I think it's a bit off topic and deserves another thread...
As far as the OT I'm in agreement with everyone else, it's not about clothes; though wearing certain clothes can be an expression of how we feel inside, and in that case they can be somewhat important to some people.
Quote from: KillBelle on December 19, 2010, 03:24:41 AM
Sex feels like work to me mostly because i spent the last 365 days with my boyfriend having sex and after a while...i just dont want to do it as much. i am very busy all the time with my job, if it isnt my job then i am volunteering at the nearby elementary school or the homeless shelter down the street for the holidays. Then i gotta worry about laundry, the gym, breast cancer marathon, dinner every night, family parties, decorating the house for the holidays, then new years, then a trip to las vegas so he can gamble. So by the end of the night when i lay down i am exhausted and just not in the mood for sex. but i gotta do my part in satisfying him =]
so yes sometimes it is work lol
not my place to say - but if I'm ever i a relationship with a guy, and i'm so busy that sex feels like work (and I'm not getting paid ;) ) then I'm going to chenge some priorities.
Call me selfish but I'd rather have a satisfying sexual relationship with my spouse than run a marathon, or volunteer at the school, or whatever.
Oh, and judging by your avatar i don't think you need to be overusing the gym, either - I can only ever dream of being that slender.
Tragically, about the only way you get to be that thin, and stay that thin, is by overusing the gym.
I used to consider myself androgyne, but after many years of soul searching I realized that I want to be truly female. But it's not so much about society seeing me as female (although that would be nice) but it's really about having a body that feels right. My male body just feels all wrong a clunky.
It's not really about sex either. I'm bisexual anyway, and the male parts aren't completely terrible. If it were only about the itty bits, I could live with that fairly easily. But the body as a whole just feels wrong. I don't like testes, the voice sounds all wrong, the proportions of the body feel strange, etc.
Everyday I feel like I'm driving a very badly designed vehicle. Except that it's a vehicle I am always stuck in, and sleep is the only way out of it. I can't explain to people why I would want to change the body, because there are plenty of other people with similarly designed body vehicles who are just fine. The only difference between me and them, is that I am not them. I do not feel like a man, I just happen to have the body of one. Every move that I make feels completely awkward, and it's driving me insane.
^This. I identify so much with that piece of text !
Quote from: Tammy Hope on December 20, 2010, 03:42:23 AM
not my place to say - but if I'm ever i a relationship with a guy, and i'm so busy that sex feels like work (and I'm not getting paid ;) ) then I'm going to chenge some priorities.
Call me selfish but I'd rather have a satisfying sexual relationship with my spouse than run a marathon, or volunteer at the school, or whatever.
Oh, and judging by your avatar i don't think you need to be overusing the gym, either - I can only ever dream of being that slender.
I agree with you there, and i think a good sexual relationship is really super important. Sex is just not that much of a priority for me, yes i do enjoy it...but only 4 times a week? I prefer traveling over sex ideally, i dont know if that is a bad thing.
As far as the gym goes, i definitely work out a lot...i enjoy it and it helps drive away my frustrations. i dont really watch what i eat so it is a consequence =]
I just had a thought that maybe one reason being able to have sex like a female is important to me is because if I am fortunate enough to ever fall in love again, I would prefer to be more of a traditional housewife on a little farm. Part of that means pleasing my man, which is personally very pleasurable for me.
Quote from: regan on December 19, 2010, 02:35:37 PMI don't know your personal story, but just based on your choice of words I would think very carefully about the choices you make in expressing your gender/sexuality. Depending on how far you go with it before the reality of your situation sets in, you may not be able to go back. IMHO, your interest seems to be more in role playing then in the actual day to day aspects of being a female (non-sexual roles, etc). Again think long and hard about the choices you make.
Robertina;
I have read more of your posts and what regan wrote about role playing had already crossed my mind long before this post. I think I already told you once that you seem to be focussed on sex 'too much'. I personally think that sex should not be the main reason to transition. Maybe it shouldn't be a reason at all. You might get dissapointed. I'm not saying that sex is your reason to transition. I'm just saying that it seems like sex is a 'theme' for you and that you might want to be cautious about the choices you make.
I remember that when I read one of your first post, or maybe it was your first post, that I could relate to you. The only difference between you and me at that time I think was that I sort of already had let go of the sex-part. In fact, I have also always been into sex very much and for a while I asked myself if sex wasn't one of the main reasons for wanting to transition. At that time it was hard for me to see my identity and sexual identity apart from each other. I knew that what I used to be like sexually would change. Well, it changed. It changed a lot. I was okay with that, because sex turned out not to be a reason to transition for me. My identity was my reason to transition.
How did I change sexually? Well.. I used to be able to have sex with whomever I wanted to and whenever I wanted to. Frankly, I used to have lots of sex, with different partners. I was always in the 'female role'. Did I enjoy sex? Yes I did, but not as much as I thought I was. Thinking about it now, I think that back then for me having sex was the only way to feel female, to feel my identity. That was a lie of course, but at the time it 'worked' for me. Now I am so much different. I fell in love with a guy at the start of summer and since then I haven't had sex with anyone else. That relationship more or less ended two months ago, but I still didn't have sex with anyone else. I 'normally' would have had sex with another guy (or more..) within a week probable, but now I wouldn't have sex with another guy if he would be hotter than my ex-bf AND would pay me $ 1,000. Did hormones change me? I'm not entirely sure, but I'm sure that hormones have a great impact. I still feel as sexual as I used to, I just don't want to share it with the first guy that comes along. It has all become much more about emotions and romance etc. If a guy wants sex too soon then I loose all interest in him. The way guys used to have sex with me, I wouldn't accept that now. Back then it was hot, now it would be disrespectful to me. The guys that I used to think of as 'hot' back then are more or less pigs to me now, lol. Sure, they still look hot to me, but if they don't take me out to dinner, then so long. I haven't had sex in two months, I rarely masturbate, but I'm very much okay with it all. The only guy I would have sex with now is my ex-bf, but that's also because something is still going on between us. But that's another topic, lol. I don't know if it's hormones, but pre-hormones I don't think I would have felt this way or would have allowed myself to feel this way. I think I would have dealt with it completely different. I can't say for sure of course, because I didn't meet THIS guy before hormones, but I think that's it. To me it all feels right. It sort of feels like who I am. I was already like that, but would have dealt with it differently. Anyway, I just wanted to share a bit of what it has been like for me with you. Experiences of others may be totally different. Noone is the same. I just hope that transitioning isn't too much about sex for you. If it would have been about sex for me then I would have felt totally miserable by now. There may be others here who felt the way like you do and for whom it all worked out and if they are here I hope they will speak up to you.
I personally don't relate to 'I want a pussy more than clothes'. To me being socially accepted as woman is the most important thing right now. Clothes and appearance play a bigger role in that than 'pussy' does. Eventually I'll will probable have a vagina (sorry but I prefer that word over pussy, lol) but right now I am more concerned about other things. Oh, by the way, I don't think any straight guy is going to see you as female as long as you haven't transitioned socially, not even if you have a 'pussy'. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.. I think it's important for you to be seen as female by a straight guy, right?
I still don't understand the role playing comments.
I understand that if I am to ever have SRS, it would mean living as a woman full time. My point in the first post was that I am more interested in changing my anatomy than I am in wearing female clothing, even though the two go together. I had this concern because so many here on the board have talked about their long held desires to wear women's clothing, even since their childhood, and I did not follow that path. I was mainly looking for feedback in that area, which some have already addressed.
BTW, I have had very little sex in my life - I'm not a sex fiend or anything, though I do enjoy it. Romance is important to me too as are the many factors, in addition to sex, that make for a good relationship.
Quote from: Robertina on December 20, 2010, 11:28:21 PM
I still don't understand the role playing comments.
I understand that if I am to ever have SRS, it would mean living as a woman full time. My point in the first post was that I am more interested in changing my anatomy than I am in wearing female clothing, even though the two go together. I had this concern because so many here on the board have talked about their long held desires to wear women's clothing, even since their childhood, and I did not follow that path. I was mainly looking for feedback in that area, which some have already addressed.
BTW, I have had very little sex in my life - I'm not a sex fiend or anything, though I do enjoy it. Romance is important to me too as are the many factors, in addition to sex, that make for a good relationship.
There are many trans women who never crossdressed. I think it's a coping mechanism that helps some and some not.
Quote from: Robertina on December 20, 2010, 07:29:26 PM
I just had a thought that maybe one reason being able to have sex like a female is important to me is because if I am fortunate enough to ever fall in love again, I would prefer to be more of a traditional housewife on a little farm. Part of that means pleasing my man, which is personally very pleasurable for me.
Robertina.
This is possibly the most normal statatement I've read in a while.
I can't think of anything more natural than wanting to live a normal life, free from the problems and worries that come from the various hurdles put in our way.
I honestly thought I had found my dream, when I was in my late teens. I had a nice man, he was a little over twice my age. He was mature, very staid, reserved, strong and particular about how he liked things. He was also quite strict with me, if you understand.
I saw myself as his little wife, doing my best to pleased him in so many ways. We lived in a small flat, (apartment), in a nice part of a small town. Local shops, neighbours that didn't bother us, but were friendly.
Don't lose faith Robertina. Don't sell yourself short.
Just believe that you are entitled to a decent life.
Quote from: Robertina on December 20, 2010, 11:28:21 PM
I still don't understand the role playing comments.
I understand that if I am to ever have SRS, it would mean living as a woman full time.
Take nothing I say as being judgemental, but you really need to think carefully about the pathway you choose to follow. By your own statements, you are essentially saying you have no interest in being a woman socially, only sexually. That can be achieved through role play. In order to have GRS, you need to have been living in the role of your target gender for at least a year. Your word choice makes it sound like you would resign yourself to living as a woman post-GRS, not before. There again, you are almost saying you would reluctantly be a woman anyways. "Living as a woman" is somewhat loaded itself, it still implies you're playing a role (aka "role playing"). Only you can know for sure.
Quote from: Robertina on December 20, 2010, 11:28:21 PM
My point in the first post was that I am more interested in changing my anatomy than I am in wearing female clothing, even though the two go together. I had this concern because so many here on the board have talked about their long held desires to wear women's clothing, even since their childhood, and I did not follow that path. I was mainly looking for feedback in that area, which some have already addressed.
It's either about the clothes or it's not about the clothes. People have all sorts of motivations in deciding to crossdress or not. You need to read more into what people are talking about on this board in the context of their childhood experiences crossdressing. Again, everyone's path is different so crossdressing or not is not enough to gauge your level of gender dysphoria.
Quote from: Robertina on December 20, 2010, 11:28:21 PM
BTW, I have had very little sex in my life - I'm not a sex fiend or anything, though I do enjoy it. Romance is important to me too as are the many factors, in addition to sex, that make for a good relationship.
That's a rather mature view on relationships. Ask yourself though, are you ready for the negative aspects of transition if all you really want is to be a woman in the bedroom?
Quote from: regan on December 21, 2010, 09:03:51 AM
Take nothing I say as being judgemental, but you really need to think carefully about the pathway you choose to follow. By your own statements, you are essentially saying you have no interest in being a woman socially, only sexually. That can be achieved through role play. In order to have GRS, you need to have been living in the role of your target gender for at least a year. Your word choice makes it sound like you would resign yourself to living as a woman post-GRS, not before. There again, you are almost saying you would reluctantly be a woman anyways. "Living as a woman" is somewhat loaded itself, it still implies you're playing a role (aka "role playing"). Only you can know for sure.
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. I fully understand that one must live as a woman (present as a woman, or whatever you want to call it) full time for one year before you can even get a letter for SRS. If I get SRS, it would be to make my body match who I am on the inside. I think you might be reading to much into my wording and what you think I am almost saying. When I say "living as a woman" I mean outwardly, so maybe I should have used the word "present."
I'm letting my hair grow out, but until I can start E and begin to look more feminine, I don't want to start dressing and presenting as a woman, though I am allowing myself to express more femininity than I have before, despite some teasing I get.
Anyway, thanks for everyone's input and validation.
Quote from: Robertina on December 21, 2010, 09:28:20 PM
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. I fully understand that one must live as a woman (present as a woman, or whatever you want to call it) full time for one year before you can even get a letter for SRS. If I get SRS, it would be to make my body match who I am on the inside. I think you might be reading to much into my wording and what you think I am almost saying. When I say "living as a woman" I mean outwardly, so maybe I should have used the word "present."
I'm letting my hair grow out, but until I can start E and begin to look more feminine, I don't want to start dressing and presenting as a woman, though I am allowing myself to express more femininity than I have before, despite some teasing I get.
Anyway, thanks for everyone's input and validation.
I have to go against the grain here.
It's not about clothes.
It's not about the body.
It's not about sex.
It's about being whole.
I don't try to be feminine, I'm just being myself. Whereas you come across as play acting. I'm sorry but that's how it sounds. There's a difference between being feminine and being female. Are you feminine or are you female?
Quote from: Beyond on December 22, 2010, 12:25:56 AM
It's about being whole.
I don't try to be feminine, I'm just being myself. Whereas you come across as play acting. I'm sorry but that's how it sounds. There's a difference between being feminine and being female. Are you feminine or are you female?
Yes. For the love of all that is holy, yes. This cannot be said too many times. It is always about being how you feel.
Quote from: Dee_pntx on December 18, 2010, 09:52:11 PM
I plan to just put a towel on the bed underneath when I have sex post-op then shower after. He can like it or not, but any man I have sex with is going to wear a condom, period.
Even in the unlikely case that I find a long term partner and I know for 100% certain that he is disease free, I may, may allow him to not use a condom and I'll still shower after and clean myself out.
Still, I would rather wash a little cum out of my girl parts than have the mess of anal sex. I like anal sex (I bottom only) but it's in a disgustingly filthy place and if a guy does me we are BOTH going straight to the shower after to clean up, period. And it don't happen without a condom, ever.
I can't wait to never have to do it that way again. Sure it feels good but it's soooo filthy and gross.
By summer time I should be healed up and good to go. And there will only me two holes available, not three and neither of the two will be the back door.
I'm right there with you on anal. It feels great, and it's naughty and all that kinky goodness, but I don't want to be kinky all the time. I just want a vag so I can power bottom girls and guys and not feel gross when I'm done : )
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2010, 10:54:25 AM
Tragically, about the only way you get to be that thin, and stay that thin, is by overusing the gym.
Nah. many of us are just blessed by nature. I know women who never lift a finger to burn calories and are tiny. Though that's more common in the pre-30 crowd than in the older among us.
I think it stops (without artificial encouragement: i.e. constant exercise) to go away about 25, it's just by 30 you start noticing that in the race between you and the cheesecakes the cheesecakes seem to be catching up. If not moving out front even.
Quote from: Beyond on December 22, 2010, 12:25:56 AM
I don't try to be feminine, I'm just being myself. Whereas you come across as play acting. I'm sorry but that's how it sounds. There's a difference between being feminine and being female. Are you feminine or are you female?
I still don't understand the play acting / role playing comments. I'm only trying to understand and be myself, not something I am not. The problem is that for decades I have had to pretend to be someone that I am not, so long, that one can't start to believe the lie. After spending so many years lying to myself and everyone else, it takes some time to learn who I really am and express myself naturally - the right circumstances also have something to do with it.
I get it Robertina, I just think some of it is lost in translation.
I think I understand how you feel. I want SRS more than anything really. I don't want to have to pretend it's not there if I'm to be involved with someone sexually. So as far as that aspect goes I haven't completely crossed the ocean of transition.
The "ocean of transition" is an analogy I came up with to describe the process. There are two continents on either side, The Male Alliance and The Confederation of Females. For the longest time I was stuck in the alliance wanting to get to the other side because that's where I belong. And without SRS I'm still treading water off the shores of the Confederation of Females. Now being in close proximity to it's shores grants me female status as far as everyone is concerned but I'm still not completely there. I want to actually walk on the sandy beaches instead of imagining I'm there and I think you're in the same boat as I am. Well actually you might be in a boat and well on your way, I've got the sharks circling waiting for me to drown.
I'm of the opinion that being feminine and being female don't necessarily go hand in hand. I understand what it's like to want to be completely female. It's nice to be accepted as one socially but one can't function as one in every aspect without the proper equipment. The proper tools really do make a difference. Have you ever tried to remove a rusted on muffler with only an 8" crescent wrench and a jack to raise a single wheel so you can crawl under the car? Yeah, not having the proper equipment for a job is a royal pain in the ass.
Maddie, in just my own experience i used to feel that way too pre SRS. Yet now at this stage of my life, i feel like i am on that island and i FEEL female...yet at the same time i dont feel like my transition is complete. Nor do i feel that satisfaction that i thought i would feel...that feeling of...omg i did it...it's over....i am done transitioning.
I know that the experience differs on a wide range among different people, and yes some girls DO feel like their journey is over with. And they are happy living life as any ordinary female.
But my point is that sometimes i get lingering feelings of wanting to be a guy again, i remember after i had my surgery i just started panicking because i didnt have my penis anymore. I thought...omg i made a mistake. Even till this day sometimes i would crossdress wearing my boyfriends clothing when he is away at work and i would be so happy feeling like a "guy" again. So the truth of that matter is, is that if nothing is ever sorted out completely "upstairs" then no matter what you change down there...you can never be satisfied.
I wish i would have listened to my heart and waited several more years to get the SRS, because i should have dealt with my emotional problems first and accept myself before jumping the gun.
For most I guess, that several years is a necessity due to the price tag. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think I'll ever be finished transitioning. I don't want to be a generic girl and I certainly wouldn't change my past even if I could. I like pointing across the ocean to the Male Alliance and saying, "Did you know I swam over from there?" Does it mean I want a penis? Heck no. Get it off of me asap.
I may be wrong, but Pam has just had a bad breakup with her BF.
When she feels better she might be a lottle more optimistic.
What do you say Pam?
Quote from: spacial on December 23, 2010, 12:17:49 PM
I may be wrong, but Pam has just had a bad breakup with her BF.
When she feels better she might be a lottle more optimistic.
What do you say Pam?
i didnt mean to come off as pessimistic loll, but i would be lying if i said that the last few days have been the greatest time of the year. Things have been really really really depressing for me. but coming back here has made me feel a whole ton better. thanks <3
Quote from: Dee_pntx on December 23, 2010, 11:47:37 AM
So much for the screening process eh?
LOL...i was very overeager to get that SRS that i didnt even think about it logically. i did tell them the truth that i knew i wanted to be a girl since the day i started walking =]
What a long thread, I don't read all the threads, I just don't have time, its busy for a housewife at Christmas.
I think your genuine Robertine, your choice of words certainly didn't offend me, my Husband uses that word in a complementary sort of way, awesome pussy he calls mine lol
It is a complicated journey, I certainly never wanted to be attracted to guys pre transition, but that all changed well into transition, it took me 12years of transition before I finally had srs
Quote from: KillBelle on December 23, 2010, 03:31:34 PM
LOL...i was very overeager to get that SRS that i didnt even think about it logically. i did tell them the truth that i knew i wanted to be a girl since the day i started walking =]
I certainly wasn't overeager, but it had to happen as I just about had every other surgery, it got to the stage my Mother would no longer support my transition unless I had srs, after 12 years I was just glad it was all over and my transition was complete, its not even about sex, I get more out of pleasing my Husband as a woman, than pleasing myself, maybe that love.
But the main thing for me, I now feel complete as a woman.
p
"I wouldn't change my past if i could"
Oh I would!
With respect to the whole business of changing the course of my history (in regards to kids and such) if i could travel back in time and give my mom a shot or something that would have had me born fully female, I would SO do it.
Even better than that - if I could step out of this body and into the body of a girl of, say, 14, and live out a "normal" female life then I'd HAVE to do it.
One thing I think I'll miss, even if I "finish" transition, is having a "female past"
That whole body of experience from teen crushes to going to the prom to looking good in a bikini (I know, not all young girls do and I'd probably have been a fat chick anyway but still...) to picking out a wedding dress to being pregnant and on and on and on.
Maybe I'm wrong and once I'm "made whole" I won't care but I wonder...
Why is it that everyone thinks that if they could go back it would have been that picture perfect deal. I always asked my students if they could travel back in time where would they want to go and the overwhelming response was always the "Age of Chivalry" (or as Christians know it, the Middle Ages, or as the rest of us call it, The Dark Ages) and it was always that they would have been the king, queen, princess, knight (that's a Dark Age term for 'thug' or, more professionally "hired killer"). But the reality is that 99.9999% of the people in that time were peasants, or worse.
So, given that, how many of the 'normal' girls where you grew up were pregnant at 14, bloated by 15, and living with some guy who beat them in the double-wide where the other residents of the trailer parks' definition of 'total mass confusion' was Father's Day at your place?
I mean, if you only change one thing, then you've only changed one thing. If you were the smartest kid in the class as a boy, then for sure that would have been true if you were a girl. If I had been born a girl would I not still be a PhD, and a superior mechanic too? Sure, I might have had to work harder to prove the second, but the first would have been a given.
Looking back I'm glad everything happened the way it did. Have you seen the way teenage girls treat each other? There's the "queen bee" and she psychologically manipulates all the other girls into shunning anyone for not following the crowd. I want no part of that, thank you very much. I know boys have their own form of bullying but that's physical and thanks to me being athletic I didn't really have to worry about that much.
If I had a "normal" past I probably wouldn't be as assertive as I am today for fear of being called a bitch. But when you're a guy, you just know what you want and it's actually encouraged. So a lot of good came from it. Yes it has it's drawbacks such as having to correct a few issues but I wouldn't change it even if the technology were available to do so.
Well even when you're trying to swim your way to the women's continent, you still have to contend with some artillery fire.
QuoteWhy is it that everyone thinks that if they could go back it would have been that picture perfect deal.
Can't speak for others but I've no illusion that anythng would be perfect.
Being female wouldn't have suddenly cured me of the tendency to be too heavy, to have to wear glasses, to be a bit homely and a bit of a bookworm.
I have no illusions that I'd have somehow been the homecoming queen.
Wanting it to be "right" is not an assumption it would have been "perfect"
tekla, you're understanding it wrong. People do not mean they would have had a perfect life were they born with the right gender. They just mean they would have had a better life, and that is probably true for most transsexuals, and probably for most transgenders, too. The idealization, I think, comes from the fact that it's such an hindrance. It's like, uh, say, someone who is missing their legs. With them, they would surely not have had a perfect life, but no one would contest their idealizing it.
What an interesting series of comments, what an interesting topic. It got me thinking about my own life -
First, about going back in time and being born a girl biologically - I do not think that would have been good. My mother told my sisters they did not have to do well in school, because they would marry and a man would support them. I kid not. Doing well in school as a male was my ticket out of my dysfunctional family starting with boarding school for ninth grade. And college away from home. Being male was the best way out of there. I never thought I was a girl in a male body, but I never thought about being male either. I just focused on surviving.
Two years ago, at 58, I started to review my life and make sense of things - like my feeling that I never "fit" and was always playing a (male) role. Sometimes role-playing is serious and in service of survival. I got into therapy, joined support groups and son on. I also started (partial) cross-dressing. I experimented with women's clothes, not to "look like a woman," or to be in drag , or even "feel like a woman." I just wanted to find out what I liked. I learned that I like "pretty" things, I like color, I like variety, and I like compliments. I also liked being called "mam." Some part of me I had never before acknowledged sat up and preened, and felt validated.
Since this shift in my awareness, I have become more aware that what I want is to be female physically and socially because I identify with women. I identify with women's concerns as well as wanting to wear women's clothes and look good doing so. And I have delayed dating for some time because I do not want to be seen or treated as a conventional heterosexual man. I do not feel like or identify as one. It does not fit. and I am too early in the process to be seen as a woman or a very androgynous person of ambiguous sex. I am attracted to both men and women - or either I guess - but I do not know how to present myself or be myself. I am still learning.
Reading all the different comments helps me look at things in different ways.
One last comment - more than a vagina, if I could go back in time I would want a womb. More than a man, I would want a baby. And that is what made my sisters lives so hard - babies way too soon. But to give birth, the wish brings tears to my eyes. I am grateful for my son, and the privilege of raising him, and I was there for the labor, but I was not his mother. Oh well, I cannot have that. I am grateful for what I can have.
There are so many different facets of this - feeling "I am a woman," dressing in womens' clothes, wanting to be seen and treated as a woman, wanting a woman-body, wanting to have vaginal intercourse, wanting to see a woman in the mirror, and more. And it seems everyone comes at it differently. And each person's experience is valid.
Thank you Robertine for posing the question.
Kendall
On the topic of changing one thing in the past, for me it would be to be born female. I know my life would have been radically different and not in a good way. Assuming I had the same genes and same inherent personality (which is identical to my mother's) I would have gotten by but I would have faced different challenges and different problems. I would not (I don't think) have come as close to suicide nor would I have had to invest so much effort in simply becoming me.
On the original topic I can understand the deep desire to BE "normal female". As one who identified as female from earliest childhood I didn't grasp the magnitude of the problem until I was 8 and I never could do "boy act" worth a damn. By my early teens (1960) I was living part time en femme and that was my only taste of normality. As I got older, all the girls my age were becoming more sexually active and I was "stuck" because of my physical state - they were growing up and I didn't have that option. I may have had the rest of a 'normal life' but there was no way I was ever going to get physically involved with a guy the way I was. All I wanted was a normal body so I could get on with life as a whole and complete person - so yes, it wasn't about the clothes, it wasn't about the social part, it was all about BEING totally and completely female - I would even have taken periods, PMS, and the risk of pregnancy if it was possible!
(I had SRS at the age of 24 (1974) and it was indeed the end of my transition - after that was just normal life and, yes, I did put the "new equipment" to good use LOL!.)
Quote from: Kendall on December 25, 2010, 01:36:21 AM
Two years ago, at 58, I started to review my life and make sense of things - like my feeling that I never "fit" and was always playing a (male) role. Sometimes role-playing is serious and in service of survival. I got into therapy, joined support groups and son on. I also started (partial) cross-dressing. I experimented with women's clothes, not to "look like a woman," or to be in drag , or even "feel like a woman." I just wanted to find out what I liked. I learned that I like "pretty" things, I like color, I like variety, and I like compliments. I also liked being called "mam." Some part of me I had never before acknowledged sat up and preened, and felt validated.
Since this shift in my awareness, I have become more aware that what I want is to be female physically and socially because I identify with women. I identify with women's concerns as well as wanting to wear women's clothes and look good doing so.
There are so many different facets of this - feeling "I am a woman," dressing in womens' clothes, wanting to be seen and treated as a woman, wanting a woman-body, wanting to have vaginal intercourse, wanting to see a woman in the mirror, and more. And it seems everyone comes at it differently. And each person's experience is valid.
Thanks for your reply, Kendall (and sorry for my late response). I have never felt like I fit in all of my life. This process of exploring my true gender is allowing me to see who I really am inside - something I never allowed myself to do in total honesty. I like pretty things too, bright colors, and to receive compliments. I want to feel pretty. Saying it sounds vain to my ears, but it makes me feel good. On the few occasions when someone thought I was a woman, it made me feel good too.
I just wish that I could have allowed myself to be honest about these things when I was younger, which would have made transition much, much easier. I look at all the pretty young women around me and think how I will never be able to look like that. Yet, there are some very attractive women my age, and I need to remember that.
Anyway, I really identified with your comments and wanted to thank you for sharing.
Quote from: Robertina on January 02, 2011, 07:33:36 PM
I just wish that I could have allowed myself to be honest about these things when I was younger, which would have made transition much, much easier. I look at all the pretty young women around me and think how I will never be able to look like that. Yet, there are some very attractive women my age, and I need to remember that.
The ease of transition is relative. There is a vast assumption that a younger transition equates to being more physically passable, that however is not always true. Even the child that transitions in pre-puberty still fears being read as their birth genders, still has to come to terms with a past life different from their current gender. Looks have nothing to do with that. Young transitioners may have the benfit of youth, but they lack the benefit of money and transition is very, very expensive.
I have come to believe that whereever you are in transition, while you are busy envying someone you wish you could be, someone is feeling the same way about you.
Sometimes I wish I had waited to start so that I would have been better off financially. Alas that wasn't the case.
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on January 06, 2011, 11:22:05 AM
Sometimes I wish I had waited to start so that I would have been better off financially. Alas that wasn't the case.
I'm using my extra student loans and tax return to help with mine...and even that wont be enough! In total about $13,000...and according to the budget I made, that's barely scratching the surface! So yeah, a transitioning person better want this a lot cause its going to drain them like a vampire bat! :-\
You almost have to get real creative with things like clothes, make-up, etc to make up for surgeries. Still...I find myself buying higher-end items for a boost now and then! ^_^
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on January 06, 2011, 11:22:05 AM
Sometimes I wish I had waited to start so that I would have been better off financially. Alas that wasn't the case.
I'm realizing the (re)transition bug hit me after I realized all that I had achieved in my life, yet I still wasn't happy. As I related it to my therapist, I realized I was feeling alot more comfortable about my transition plans knowing all of the things it wasn't going to take away from me or possibly keep me from achieving.
There are a lot of positives to being born in the exact body that your mind is, e.g. a female body for a female mind, but being born trans is not all that bad either. There are positives for being born transgendered, at least for me.
I know my family and more importantly myself. I know without a doubt that I would not be as accepting of people and their differences had I not been born this way. I know for a fact that I would have taken gender for granted. I would have bitched and moaned about my period. I would probably not have considered being bisexual or truly open. More than likely, I would have followed the pack and be anti-LGBT. I definitely would not have considered having LGBT friends. Okay, I do not have any now, but I almost did, just this gay guy did not want to be friends. :-(
More importantly, I do not think that I would have been as sensitive as I am, gone into computers, liked Star Trek, or even just stayed a girl. I would have become a woman and be someone totally else.
In many ways being trans has helped my soul to grow and to see life as a spectrum.
Okay, I am not happy about all the lost years or should I saw decades. I am still ticked for not being able to go to my prom. I always imagined wearing a beautiful dress and having someone ask me out. I miss all the girl experiences, although I would have taken them for granted. I am big enough to say that I know myself, and I would have sad to say.
Yes, I would love a natal vulva and plumbing, not to mention a G-spot. Medical science cannot give transgirls a g-spot as far as I understand, or can it? They can put parts of the penile gland woven into the vaginal wall, or at least one SRS surgeon did, but that is something different. Maybe one day. Yes, there was this other thread and the consensus was 30-years. That is truly a double ho hum.
The point that I am trying to make is that going back in time and changing the past also changes events, emotions, and may other things. It is not a sure thing that changing the past would make the alternate reality better. One person here wrote that they would go back and have their mother take something extra to ensure a female child. That change could have resulted in God knows what changes, maybe for the best but maybe for the worse.
By the way, I am not saying that I would wish to be trans or anyone else to. I would want my own children, etc. To my knowledge, I did not ask to be trans, or at least I sure hope that I was not that stupid, but as long as I am here, there is good that came of it.
Quote from: sarahla on January 07, 2011, 12:42:06 AM
Yes, I would love a natal vulva and plumbing, not to mention a G-spot. Medical science cannot give transgirls a g-spot as far as I understand, or can it? They can put parts of the penile gland woven into the vaginal wall, or at least one SRS surgeon did, but that is something different. Maybe one day. Yes, there was this other thread and the consensus was 30-years. That is truly a double ho hum.
The best answer I can give is "kind of". The G-spot is part of the female prostate (the analogue, at least), and prolonged exposure to estrogen will make the homologous male prostate gland take on some similar characteristics. There's no way for sure to say just how similar it is, obviously, but I've heard anecdotally that some trans women are able to achieve orgasms from stimulation of the prostate through the vagina. As always, YMMV.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 18, 2010, 03:55:18 PM
For me it would be the final validation. Yes I know, why do I need that validation? Because I do. I don't have to explain that to anyone.
It is like the keystone to an archway. Yes, no one would know any different, from now til then. But I do and that is what makes the difference.
The sex is not even a consideration. If that happens then great otherwise I already am treated like a woman, good and bad. I am seen as a woman in every eye, including my own. I am blessed in that my journey has only had a few bumps.
I feel the part about validation. For me too, it's also about finality. They can take everything else away from me, but once the SRS is done, they can't take it back.
While I like clothes and being girly, it's not even in the same ballpark. I would rather be physically female dressed in sackcloth than a have male anatomy dressed in the prettiest things.