I would have liked to have done this as a poll, but I couldn't figure out the best way to phrase it.
I would be okay if someone thought I was a gay guy or an effeminate guy.
But I've always felt weird (and even upset in some cases) if someone thought I was just a girl TRYING to be a guy. And on that later part, I'm sure some people will take that the wrong way so let me try to elaborate on it ... I've always had kind of an issue with people who thought I was a female just dressing up like a male or acting like a male (for whatever reason). They could have thought I was a tomboy or a dyke but there was always the female-looking-like-male aspect of it. Does that make sense?
I'm certainly not dissing any groups or individuals. I'm all for if people want to look a certain way or act a certain way... that's cool as long as they're comfortable with it. I'm just speaking from a purely personal level. I guess it kind of made me mad that people would think I was "trying" to be something I'm "not" (when in reality, I'm just being my actual self).
I've also found over the years that if people saw me as female they saw a "not pretty" girl. Or they would comment like, "you could be pretty if you just .... (put on make up ... wore nice clothes ... did your hair ... etc. etc)". However, I've had people think I was a pretty nice looking guy! I've even had girls who just took me as male say I was a "pretty" guy. Kinda funny if you think about it.
Awhile back I saw someone on another area of the board (an MTF) say that she was totally okay with people thinking she was an FTM. I thought that was interesting too. Like I wonder if any FTMs would be okay with people thinking they were an MTF?
So anyway I was just curious if anyone else ever thought similar things and if you have any of your own "exceptions" (like mine about not caring if someone thought I was an effeminate dude)?
I wouldn't mind if someone thought I was an effeminate guy, but it kind of just doesn't happen...couldn't pass for anything on the "fem" side of gender expression if I tried. In fact, I have a hell of a time figuring out how to signal that I'm even gay without announcing it. I guess my exception that most closely parallels yours is that I don't particularly mind if someone thinks I'm a straight guy, most of the time.
I'm with you, though, I can't stand being seen as a girl "trying to look like a guy." The fear of being perceived as a butch lesbian was one factor in delaying my transition...I pushed through it though and it turned out it didn't really happen very much. (I'm just as much "not butch" as I am "not fem" - my gender expression falls under "boring.")
At a trans health conference someone thought that I was a mtf who hadn't transitioned yet, I was very pleased haha. Because it means that I look like a biomale enough that even people who are looking for people being trans can't peg that I was born female. I wouldn't mind if someone thought I was a feminine guy but I don't think that would happen because I'm not. I'm average and thats usually what people think I am.
The only thing I have a problem with is someone seeing me as a butch or any kind of woman. Not because I hate women and I think that being seen as a woman is a bad thing, but just because I'm not a woman.
I get annoyed when people try to define me by a gender, any gender. I know this is a natural, human thing to do, but on a private, personal level, it doesn't sit right with me. So I try to politely point out that I don't relate to this gender thing very much, and certainly not as a female. About half the time, people get it. Most of those who don't get it are not worth talking to anyway.
I'm not okay with being seen as "butch" or a "dyke" I've always hated the words and being associated with them makes me sick
To a lesser extent, I hate being called a lesbian, even before I came to the realization that trans people existed and that I was one, I've never felt right being called a lesbian, and detest the word, I'd always just say "please use the word gay"
I think for me it would be not liking people who label me as a butch lesbian. I do adore the lesbian community in that I have made numerous friends within it despite identifying as a gay man myself, however being cast as one when I'm not trying to 'represent' myself in such a way kinda makes me sad. However, I've come to find that since I've started accepting who I am and am thus willing to embrace myself, opinions have shifted. I'm no longer getting called a dyke but rather, a young boy or pretty boy- which I'm fine with! Haha. I say to myself that I'm currently in the boy stage of my life and T will be my growing stage (second puberty, anyone?), where I'll hopefully start presenting as a man.
Curiously enough, since accepting what I am inside, I find more straight girls are attracted to me. Before- when I was fighting myself- it was always the gay girls. My male friends claim it's because I have a new confidence in myself when I pass and present as male. My therapist says it has to do with the vibes I give off now. Hahah. :D
Been pegged as an MTF a few times.
I am not anywhere near okay with being pegged as a Dyke, Les, etc. because that isn't who I am. I am not a female.
Don't like being pegged as a female either, however it's better then Les or Dyke imo.
Rather just be pegged as male.
Subytpes of male.. whatever. I don't know what I am.. and where I fit into it and don't really care, as long as I'm pegged as male. Though I don't like being thought of as girly or feminine - though being pegged as gay is okay.
Well i'm gay and femme anyways, so i guess that doesn't count =P
but basically, i don't want anyone to think i am a girl aka someone with female parts.
i hate to think people imagine me as a biogirl, and it stresses me sometimes because i get all nervous and depressed thinking my boyfriend might imagine me as having girl parts, even though he knows i do and knows i am really a guy, but sometimes it is hard to decieve the eyes (though he hasnt seen my body/parts and never will until after srs, but still. you think of a girl and you think of the parts in general sometimes =( ) i dunno how much sense that makes the way i said it, but w.e.
and i know it's like, "how cares what others think" but the thing is, of course i dont care, how do you think i got this far in life if i ever cared for a sec what other people thought of me? but its not like in that way i care, i just dont like people seeing me as female and having female body parts
i waaaaaaay rather have someone think i'm mtf, a ->-bleeped-<- or even a hermaphrodite before seeing me as female, physically and mentally. uggh, i'm too annoyed right now, so i'll stop this rant =P
Quote from: Kvall on December 20, 2010, 05:43:06 PM
Carson, your two paragraphs kinda contradict each other heh. I get what you're trying to say, but I think we (both MTF and FTM folk) need to be more careful about not stepping on each others' toes and making assumptions about what gender each "looks like." This is something I see a lot: For example, sometimes when trans guys post "before" photos, people will say, "Wow you look like you were MTF!" in order to compliment his pre-transition masculinity. That suggests that to look like a trans woman is to look manly... I've seen the same said in reverse as well. I don't see anything coming from it but hurt on whichever side is being indirectly insulted.
I understand what you are saying and honestly couldn't think at the time a better way to phrase it. Thats why I put "an mtf who hadn't yet transitioned" I didn't mean that mtfs look masculine. I meant no offense. I tried to get my point across in the best way possible.
I don't care what kind of bloke people see me as, as long as they don't see me as a chick.
I'm in the same boat as a lot of you - I really don't like being pegged as a butch lesbian or as a masculine woman. I'd much rather be pegged as a fem guy or even as an androgynous girl - but not butch. My voice gives me away as female and I've got a girlfriend and identified as a lesbian for a long time - so I've come to terms with that. But not butch. Definitely not butch.
Same here, I hate being seen as any type of female...Whether it a butch/dyke/lesbian...Id rather be seen as a fem guy, which is what i consider myself.
If people think I am a dyke then thats okay. I know what I am. Butch lesbians get mistaken for men and Tguys get mistaken for butch lesbians. Not a big deal. I just tend to ignore it because at least they know I am masculine.
If people think I am a femmine (<key word) gay guy I get slightly annoyed. Theres nothing wrong with being a gay guy, I just feel that if they think I am a femmine in any way it pisses me off to no end. I know I have feminine qualites because all guys do. I get over it because I am secure in my masculinity. So what I drink tea? Who cares that I like clothes shopping? It just annoys me that someone would peg me as overly feminine.
Perhaps I got used being viewed as a butch lesbian, perhaps I slightly use that excuse to hang with the guys and hope they'll include me a bit. Butch usually means 'not girly' so it keeps the girls away from me, and sometimes girls are scared I might 'try' something tho I'm not interested ,lol.
But yeah, ever since I was 14 I hated being viewed as 'a girl thats trying to be a boy' ,I wasn't even trying, it just comes naturally.
I don't like being seen as a 'women thats wearing mans clothes.' thats just as bad... but thats pretty much the 'space' I'm living in now. I hate it.
I'm okay with any type of guy.
Not okay with butch, dyke, or any type of girl.
It'll be interesting to see how I get pegged (gay? straight?) after T since I look pretty femme.
i'm not okay with them assuming i'm any type of lesbian at all...after all i'm not even into girls...at least i'm much more into guys than girls, so lesbian just sounds wrong on a million levels. most people think i'm a teenage boy which i'm ok with, and for some reason no one ever thinks i'm a gay boy ??? oddly enough, i don't really mind them thinking i'm a 14 year old, as long as they think i'm male.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on December 20, 2010, 05:22:06 PM
I would have liked to have done this as a poll, but I couldn't figure out the best way to phrase it.
I would be okay if someone thought I was a gay guy or an effeminate guy.
But I've always felt weird (and even upset in some cases) if someone thought I was just a girl TRYING to be a guy. And on that later part, I'm sure some people will take that the wrong way so let me try to elaborate on it ... I've always had kind of an issue with people who thought I was a female just dressing up like a male or acting like a male (for whatever reason). They could have thought I was a tomboy or a dyke but there was always the female-looking-like-male aspect of it. Does that make sense?
I'm certainly not dissing any groups or individuals. I'm all for if people want to look a certain way or act a certain way... that's cool as long as they're comfortable with it. I'm just speaking from a purely personal level. I guess it kind of made me mad that people would think I was "trying" to be something I'm "not" (when in reality, I'm just being my actual self).
I've also found over the years that if people saw me as female they saw a "not pretty" girl. Or they would comment like, "you could be pretty if you just .... (put on make up ... wore nice clothes ... did your hair ... etc. etc)". However, I've had people think I was a pretty nice looking guy! I've even had girls who just took me as male say I was a "pretty" guy. Kinda funny if you think about it.
Awhile back I saw someone on another area of the board (an MTF) say that she was totally okay with people thinking she was an FTM. I thought that was interesting too. Like I wonder if any FTMs would be okay with people thinking they were an MTF?
So anyway I was just curious if anyone else ever thought similar things and if you have any of your own "exceptions" (like mine about not caring if someone thought I was an effeminate dude)?
I like when people say I think or act like a man (sometimes), but hearing I look like one or a dyke is not what I want. I am not comfortable with being viewed or addressed as a girl either. Tbh, it's really hard to say I want to be seen as a gender or even genderless being an androgyne. I'd like for people to just see me as me, though I'm not certain how to fully express that.
I always hated the word lesbian. What an ugly word. I never identified as a lesbian, although as an (originally) female Lover of Women I would often get pegged as such. I never called myself a lesbian, ever. I do enjoy the gay culture, however. As an older guy, I have seen the fun, edginess, and sexiness go out of most of my straight friends' lives, like they are all getting boring and staid in their middle age. Go to a gay event though, and no matter what age they are full of life, wit, and sexual innuendo--just more fun to be around sometimes! They know how to rock the party.
My main worries is coming across as butch rather than as a guy. There are some situations where I have to dress up in a very feminine manner, and I just think about it as cross dressing. I still think that I look ridiculous when I do this, but as long as I think about how dressing like a girl doesn't change who I am, it's okay.
People on the internet DO think I'm MtF or try to tell me I'm not passing for female or that this/that/the other feature is too manly and I should feminize it. I never know whether to be mad at them.
I am really afraid of being perceived as a butch lesbian or just a really manly alternative girl though.