I just had my consultation with the doctor and she said that I should have my ovaries removed to get the best effect of T... my question is... how many of you are on T and don't have your ovaries removed? And are the effects with T still good that you pass as male?
She told me that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard. I don't want patches of hair on my face, I wanna be able to grow something that doesn't look stupid, ya know what I mean?
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I just had my consultation with the doctor and she said that I should have my ovaries removed to get the best effect of T... my question is... how many of you are on T and don't have your ovaries removed? And are the effects with T still good that you pass as male?
She told me that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard. I don't want patches of hair on my face, I wanna be able to grow something that doesn't look stupid, ya know what I mean?
This is so false I can't believe you were told this. I think the doc just wants to make more money out of you!
You absolutely do not need to have your ovaries removed to get all the effects of T.....
Quote from: Firefly on December 28, 2010, 01:02:36 PM
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
This is so false I can't believe you were told this. I think the doc just wants to make more money out of you!
You absolutely do not need to have your ovaries removed to get all the effects of T.....
The doctor said she didn't know much about T but she said I'd get better results with getting my ovaries removed b/c of the estrogen that women carry and that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard with the ovaries still in me. I would still be able to grow hair she said but not a full beard.
I've never heard of hysto being recommended for T effectiveness before so I think your doctor is wrong.
While it's a good idea to get your ovaries removed once on Testosterone to prevent possible (But highly unlikely and possibly completely unrelated) cancer, it won't prevent you from having facial hair. I firmly believe that you should instead have regular screenings for any sorts of cancer or other harm, and put off having a hysterectomy until you need one. That way, it's covered by insurance, and you cancel out possibly having this expensive surgery for no reason, because bad side effects may not even happen to you.
Quote from: Nathan. on December 28, 2010, 01:44:53 PM
I've never heard of hysto being recommended for T effectiveness before so I think your doctor is wrong.
I told her there are other trans guys who just get on T and don't get their ovaries removed. But she's recommending it to me. But I don't think I'll have that done. Top surgery is the only surgery I would get done.
Quote from: Morgan on December 28, 2010, 02:17:49 PM
While it's a good idea to get your ovaries removed once on Testosterone to prevent possible (But highly unlikely and possibly completely unrelated) cancer, it won't prevent you from having facial hair. I firmly believe that you should instead have regular screenings for any sorts of cancer or other harm, and put off having a hysterectomy until you need one. That way, it's covered by insurance, and you cancel out possibly having this expensive surgery for no reason, because bad side effects may not even happen to you.
Thanks. I won't get that done if I don't need too.
I don't want to go to a gyno though... I never been to one and I will never go to one... is it mandatory that I go to a gyno after getting on T? This is something I will NOT do.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 02:26:57 PM
I told her there are other trans guys who just get on T and don't get their ovaries removed. But she's recommending it to me. But I don't think I'll have that done. Top surgery is the only surgery I would get done.
Only get hysto if you want/need it.
I want hysto but those parts cause a lot of dysphoria for me.
Since you're going on a medication where all the effects, harmful and beneficial, are still unknown, you should take every step possible to protect yourself from potentially fatal harm. This includes trips to the gyno, unfortunately.
I think about it this way. Die of cancer, or pop a Valium and catch any life threatening bad stuff before it even becomes life threatening.
There are several coping mechanisms for gynecological visits. These include anti-anxiety medications such as Valium, desensitizing such as talking about it with your doctor/mother/female figure in your life frequently until it no longer bothers you, and just toughing it up (Which don't feel bad if you can't just tough this out, it's pretty uncomfortable even for ciswomen, much less a male-minded person).
I was suggested once a year, starting 1 year after starting Testosterone. Once every two will suffice, but once a year seems cautionary enough and it's not really that bad. They don't last long, anyways. Some gyno's will even drug you up if you don't have Valium on hand like I do lol. And there are LGBT friendly gynecologists out there, who will be willing to use correct pronouns and to be as gentle as they can.
PS. Some prescribers of testosterone WILL make you go to a gyno, or they will refuse to write you a prescription. They're just looking out for your best interests. I know that the doc I almost went to would do that, seeing as he was a gyno himself, but yeah. I mean, even if they don't make you, you should anyways. As horrible as you may think it is.
Is there another doctor you can go to, since this one needs to go back to med school?
Not on T yet, but I got PCOS and was taking an estrogen based birth control and still managed to get hairier. What I can grow on my face looks stupid, but it still managed to grow it with my ovaries in my body + the extra estrogen from the birth control. Cis guys have some estrogen in them too. I don't see why it should cause you any trouble growing some nice facial hair. You could always take estrogen blockers.
Quote from: Morgan on December 28, 2010, 04:14:11 PM
Since you're going on a medication where all the effects, harmful and beneficial, are still unknown, you should take every step possible to protect yourself from potentially fatal harm. This includes trips to the gyno, unfortunately.
I think about it this way. Die of cancer, or pop a Valium and catch any life threatening bad stuff before it even becomes life threatening.
There are several coping mechanisms for gynecological visits. These include anti-anxiety medications such as Valium, desensitizing such as talking about it with your doctor/mother/female figure in your life frequently until it no longer bothers you, and just toughing it up (Which don't feel bad if you can't just tough this out, it's pretty uncomfortable even for ciswomen, much less a male-minded person).
I was suggested once a year, starting 1 year after starting Testosterone. Once every two will suffice, but once a year seems cautionary enough and it's not really that bad. They don't last long, anyways. Some gyno's will even drug you up if you don't have Valium on hand like I do lol. And there are LGBT friendly gynecologists out there, who will be willing to use correct pronouns and to be as gentle as they can.
PS. Some prescribers of testosterone WILL make you go to a gyno, or they will refuse to write you a prescription. They're just looking out for your best interests. I know that the doc I almost went to would do that, seeing as he was a gyno himself, but yeah. I mean, even if they don't make you, you should anyways. As horrible as you may think it is.
I won't do it. I won't go to a gyno. I'll have to take the risk of cancer or whatever, I just won't do it.
The doctor already wrote up the prescription for me all she needs to do is hear from my counselor that it's okay for me to go on it and I should be getting the gel packets in the mail soon. I'm hoping by the end of this week.
The doctor told me to rub the gel all over, like both my shoulders, arms I think and stomach... is that correct? I thought it was just one shoulder you rub it into?
Quote from: Sharky on December 28, 2010, 04:23:09 PM
Is there another doctor you can go to, since this one needs to go back to med school?
Not on T yet, but I got PCOS and was taking an estrogen based birth control and still managed to get hairier. What I can grow on my face looks stupid, but it still managed to grow it with my ovaries in my body + the extra estrogen from the birth control. Cis guys have some estrogen in them too. I don't see why it should cause you any trouble growing some nice facial hair. You could always take estrogen blockers.
I really like this doctor she was very nice and so was the nurse practitioner. I got along great with the nurse practitioner.
What is PCOS?
I want to be able to grow something nice on my face, I don't want something that is gunna make me feel uncomfortable.
Are estrogen blockers safe to take?
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I just had my consultation with the doctor and she said that I should have my ovaries removed to get the best effect of T... my question is... how many of you are on T and don't have your ovaries removed? And are the effects with T still good that you pass as male?
She told me that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard. I don't want patches of hair on my face, I wanna be able to grow something that doesn't look stupid, ya know what I mean?
This doctor doesn't know much about hormones. I still have my ovaries and I'm becoming a hairy beast! haha.
Everyone has estrogen--we need it to keep our bones healthy. If you are on a standard dose of T, you will most likely grow facial hair regardless of whether you have ovaries or not. How fast you grow facial hair is a whole other story and depends on your genetics. There are some trans guys who can grow a full beard after 6 months on T and there are others who have minimal facial hair after years on T. You never know what you're going to get!
Quote from: Nathan. on December 28, 2010, 03:13:43 PM
Only get hysto if you want/need it.
I want hysto but those parts cause a lot of dysphoria for me.
I'm sorry.
Quote from: trnsboi on December 28, 2010, 05:50:34 PM
This doctor doesn't know much about hormones. I still have my ovaries and I'm becoming a hairy beast! haha.
I'm not sure how much she knows, but she's only had one other f2m.
I hope I don't get hairy. I don't want to be a hairy guy. I'm okay with some hair. I'd like to grow some facial hair, like a beard or go-t (however ya spell it).
If I shave the hair off in places I don't want it, will it grow back even more?
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 05:49:54 PM
I won't do it. I won't go to a gyno. I'll have to take the risk of cancer or whatever, I just won't do it.
You know, the biggest reason for the yearly screenings is to catch cervical cancer in it's early stages. Aside from palpating cysts, they can't tell a whole lot from just a pelvic exam/pap smear. That said, almost all cases of cervical cancer are caused by strains of the HPV virus. If you're within the age bracket (under 26 I believe) that they typically inoculate for that in, I'd get the vaccine. It's 3 shots over the course of 6 months, but if you've not yet been exposed to the HPV types that it protects against, it'd be just as or more effective as the exams. I'm not convinced that it's really necessary to undergo those invasive exams anyways, like the effectiveness of anti-depressants, I believe the statistics on that to be inaccurate.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I just had my consultation with the doctor and she said that I should have my ovaries removed to get the best effect of T... my question is... how many of you are on T and don't have your ovaries removed? And are the effects with T still good that you pass as male?
She told me that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard. I don't want patches of hair on my face, I wanna be able to grow something that doesn't look stupid, ya know what I mean?
removing your ovaries makes T more effective since ovaries produce estrogen and your body wont have to try and stop the estrogen from being made, however you can get all the effects of T with your ovaries intact. Some people choose to remove them, some choose to keep them.
I had to go to the gyno before I started T but I didn't have to get my ovaries removed. I've been on T for a year and I've had great changes. I've passed as male since before I was on T. I'm growing facial hair just fine. Testosterone is a powerful hormone it overtakes the estrogen. Obviously it can do it's job better if it doesnt have to waste it's time canceling out estrogen but it can still do it's job damn well if you still have ovaries.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 05:49:54 PMThe doctor told me to rub the gel all over, like both my shoulders, arms I think and stomach... is that correct? I thought it was just one shoulder you rub it into?
My doc told me to rub it anywhere you can get it, as a thin layer is better absorbed by the body. I rub it over my arms, shoulders, thighs, back and backside as I'm pretty small. Mind you, be careful where on the thighs you put it as it's a high alcohol content, and will therefore sting if you put it on your inner thighs.
PCOS stands for Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and is fairly common. There may be an article on it on this site (can't remember), but if not, Wikipedia's good enough.
It's recommended to get a hysto after a few years on T to make sure you don't get cancer, but like others have said, it's not necessary just for boosting effectiveness. I'm getting a hysto in February because I need one, but with over 2 months on T beforehand I've still noticed some nice changes ^_^
I want to start T too, soon I hope. I have never had an internal exam and don't want one. A tampon is the only thing that has ever been in there. Will have to decide if the dr wants to do an exam to get T when the time comes. I want to get rid of all those extra parts but it will be a few years for sure. I hear they can do a total hyster through a couplr of small incisions now.
Quote from: Keiran84 on December 28, 2010, 07:14:21 PM
You know, the biggest reason for the yearly screenings is to catch cervical cancer in it's early stages. Aside from palpating cysts, they can't tell a whole lot from just a pelvic exam/pap smear. That said, almost all cases of cervical cancer are caused by strains of the HPV virus. If you're within the age bracket (under 26 I believe) that they typically inoculate for that in, I'd get the vaccine. It's 3 shots over the course of 6 months, but if you've not yet been exposed to the HPV types that it protects against, it'd be just as or more effective as the exams. I'm not convinced that it's really necessary to undergo those invasive exams anyways, like the effectiveness of anti-depressants, I believe the statistics on that to be inaccurate.
I'm 29. I don't think I've ever been exposed to HPV. I dunno even know what that is. So I can get the shots instead of going to a gyno?
Quote from: mm on December 29, 2010, 09:43:59 AM
I want to start T too, soon I hope. I have never had an internal exam and don't want one. A tampon is the only thing that has ever been in there. Will have to decide if the dr wants to do an exam to get T when the time comes. I want to get rid of all those extra parts but it will be a few years for sure. I hear they can do a total hyster through a couplr of small incisions now.
Yeah, my doctor told me just a few cuts and your good to go into work the next day.
Quote from: Nemo on December 29, 2010, 09:43:29 AM
My doc told me to rub it anywhere you can get it, as a thin layer is better absorbed by the body. I rub it over my arms, shoulders, thighs, back and backside as I'm pretty small. Mind you, be careful where on the thighs you put it as it's a high alcohol content, and will therefore sting if you put it on your inner thighs.
PCOS stands for Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and is fairly common. There may be an article on it on this site (can't remember), but if not, Wikipedia's good enough.
It's recommended to get a hysto after a few years on T to make sure you don't get cancer, but like others have said, it's not necessary just for boosting effectiveness. I'm getting a hysto in February because I need one, but with over 2 months on T beforehand I've still noticed some nice changes ^_^
Thanks for the gel tip. I'll look that up on Wikipedia. It's common that trans guys get PCOS
I really don't want to go through surgery. Top surgery is the only surgery I will do. Even though I'm terrified to have top surgery done, I want these things off my chest. I don't want to go through more than one surgery.
Quote from: Carson
link=topic=89821.msg647023#msg647023 date=1293634247
I had to go to the gyno before I started T but I didn't have to get my ovaries removed. I've been on T for a year and I've had great changes. I've passed as male since before I was on T. I'm growing facial hair just fine. Testosterone is a powerful hormone it overtakes the estrogen. Obviously it can do it's job better if it doesnt have to waste it's time canceling out estrogen but it can still do it's job damn well if you still have ovaries.
That's good to know. I'm glad T has been working great for you. :)
Quote from: Mark on December 28, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
removing your ovaries makes T more effective since ovaries produce estrogen and your body wont have to try and stop the estrogen from being made, however you can get all the effects of T with your ovaries intact. Some people choose to remove them, some choose to keep them.
That's what my doctor said.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 29, 2010, 09:17:26 PM
I'm 29. I don't think I've ever been exposed to HPV. I dunno even know what that is. So I can get the shots instead of going to a gyno?
Well, the medical community certainly doesn't view it as an either/or thing, they intend it to be in conjunction with those lovely annuals, but if you've decided those are too traumatic, I'd certainly recommend the vaccine. It's my understanding that if you're older than 26 in order to get it you have to convince your doctor that you're in a 'high risk group'. While typically that means having unprotected sex with multiple partners or the like, a general practitioner who's understanding of your transition might give it to you since you're refusing the exams.
Failing that, if you're currently fully passing or when you are, you could just go and get the vaccine from a Planned Parenthood, because the same vaccine is given to men to protect against the types of HPV that cause genital warts. Again, you may run into the same issue with being out of the recommended age bracket, but I know a couple guys over 26 who were able to get the vaccine from Planned Parenthood with no issue. They're all about preventing STI's, and it's not as if the vaccine would be harmful to those over 26, it just wasn't tested on those older because the thought is that most people would have been exposed to HPV by that age. Not necessarily true, but they picked their demographic and did test groups based on that assumption.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I just had my consultation with the doctor and she said that I should have my ovaries removed to get the best effect of T... my question is... how many of you are on T and don't have your ovaries removed? And are the effects with T still good that you pass as male?
She told me that I wouldn't be able to grow a full beard. I don't want patches of hair on my face, I wanna be able to grow something that doesn't look stupid, ya know what I mean?
I have been on T for over 5 years.....never had my ovaries removed. I think they just shrival up. As far as the hair growth......I have no problem growing a full beard....I have to shave every day. I am very hairy....I even have hair on my back. I think it has to do with your genetic make up also as far as your hair growth.
The recommendations for cervical cancer screenings differ significantly based on where you live. The North American protocol of annual screenings as soon as you've had vaginal intercourse, or after a certain age even if you haven't depending on where you are, will result in the average woman having 40-50 tests over her lifetime or so, depending on when they start and stop, and a 95% chance of a biopsy or something frozen/cut/burned off, yet if untreated, only a 1% risk of cervical cancer in the highest risk groups (unprotected sex with multiple partners). In Finland and the Netherlands, even the highest risk groups don't get tested until they're 30 (false positives are *far* more likely the younger a woman is, normal cellular changes are read as abnormalities), and then every 5 years afterwards, for a total of 5 to 7 lifetime tests, and in the UK apparently they can't force you to get the test - they need to tell you about the risks of false positives and how unreliable the screening actually is, now.
If you're under 30 and consider yourself less high-risk sexually than the average denizen of Amsterdam's red light districts, you may wish to do further research on the topic before deciding one way or the other. It's your body, not the American medical establishment's, or the board's, or or your mom's, or your friends who want you to share their misery.
If you want the vaccine, and are over 26, if you're not trying to get insurance coverage for it, why would a doctor have a problem giving it to you, given that they routinely write antibiotic prescriptions for colds merely to calm an overly-paranoid population? If you haven't been around anywhere near as much as the average 26 year old, and you explain that to your doctor, you'd expect them to want to hurry up and get you that shot fast before you *do* catch it - like if you'd missed any other vaccinations.
I think it was my therapist who mentioned that by removing your ovaries, you can decrease the T dosage.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 28, 2010, 05:58:19 PM
I hope I don't get hairy. I don't want to be a hairy guy. I'm okay with some hair. I'd like to grow some facial hair, like a beard or go-t (however ya spell it).
If I shave the hair off in places I don't want it, will it grow back even more?
I didn't want to be hairy either, but unfortunately we can't choose which side effects we get ;D I thought that I would not be hairy because none of the men in my family are hairy, but apparently I do carry the hairy gene after all.
Shaving will not make the hair grow back even more, it will grow at the same rate and same thickness.
Quote from: trnsboi on December 30, 2010, 08:48:10 PM
I didn't want to be hairy either, but unfortunately we can't choose which side effects we get ;D I thought that I would not be hairy because none of the men in my family are hairy, but apparently I do carry the hairy gene after all.
Shaving will not make the hair grow back even more, it will grow at the same rate and same thickness.
That's good to know. Hopefully I won't be hairy and if I do get hair in places I don't want it, I will be shaving it off.
Quote from: Jet-Ffuel on December 30, 2010, 01:19:12 PM
I have been on T for over 5 years.....never had my ovaries removed. I think they just shrival up. As far as the hair growth......I have no problem growing a full beard....I have to shave every day. I am very hairy....I even have hair on my back. I think it has to do with your genetic make up also as far as your hair growth.
Really? You have to shave everyday? I though most guys shave once a week or every 4 to 5 days?
I do not want hair on my back. I will shave my back if I get hair there. I don't even want hair on my stomach, and I especially don't want hair on my chest with those things there, it's weird to me to have hair growing on my chest with those things that shouldn't be there. It just doesn't look right.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on December 30, 2010, 11:04:56 PM
Really? You have to shave everyday? I though most guys shave once a week or every 4 to 5 days?
Maybe if they're 19. All the guys I know had to shave everyday once they were in their early 20's. After just a day there'd be major stubble, after two they'd look extremely unkempt. I'm not looking forward to that extra chore so much, but you take the bad with the good.
As for body hair, I wouldn't mind some more on my stomach and a bit of chest hair. I hope I don't end up like my ex, his back was so hairy that if he shaved it he felt like a porcupine after half a day. I'd get it waxed instead if I ended up that hairy.
I'm on T and my ovaries are still in tact.
I asked my therapist about a hysto and she said not to do it unless they give me trouble because it can lead to other problems.
But i think your GP is wrong, not heard about getting a hysto and then going on T o.o
Quote from: Keiran84 on December 31, 2010, 11:17:21 AM
Maybe if they're 19. All the guys I know had to shave everyday once they were in their early 20's. After just a day there'd be major stubble, after two they'd look extremely unkempt. I'm not looking forward to that extra chore so much, but you take the bad with the good.
As for body hair, I wouldn't mind some more on my stomach and a bit of chest hair. I hope I don't end up like my ex, his back was so hairy that if he shaved it he felt like a porcupine after half a day. I'd get it waxed instead if I ended up that hairy.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee471%2FJetfuel65%2Fsecuredownload-4.jpg&hash=02158bd0050125372da379d456b284c49a7cf73f)
Not a good pic....but I am very hairy......yes even my chest has hair......remember..I have been on T for 5 years......again it depends on your genetic make up as to how much hair you grow. I have always been hairy.......I just got hairier when I started taking T.
I can't imagine a doctor who would advise an oophorectomy prior to going on T. I've been on T for over 2 years now, and haven't had surgery on anything yet. While I am still waiting to have the money for top surgery, I'll probably have an oophorectomy at some point to prevent cancer... but the lack of that certainly hasn't stunted my body's reaction to T. I had a full beard by 4 months on T, and now have hair everywhere... chest, back, stomach, legs, arms, shoulders... and I can't imagine that it could have been any faster had I not had ovaries when I started.
You may want to find a doctor who actually knows what he/she is talking about.
SD
Quote from: Sebastien on December 31, 2010, 04:54:07 PM
I can't imagine a doctor who would advise an oophorectomy prior to going on T. I've been on T for over 2 years now, and haven't had surgery on anything yet. While I am still waiting to have the money for top surgery, I'll probably have an oophorectomy at some point to prevent cancer... but the lack of that certainly hasn't stunted my body's reaction to T. I had a full beard by 4 months on T, and now have hair everywhere... chest, back, stomach, legs, arms, shoulders... and I can't imagine that it could have been any faster had I not had ovaries when I started.
You may want to find a doctor who actually knows what he/she is talking about.
SD
I do like this doctor though. She was very nice and so was the nurse practitioner. She was recommending it to me b/c she said the changes would be better or faster or something like that.
I literally do not know one trans man who has needed to get a hysto or an oophorectomy before beginning T. I'm very active in the trans community, so i've met many many trans people. I would seriously considering look for a new doctor, because it sounds like she has little experience in dealing with trans folk. She may be nice, but you want someone who has experience and knows what they're doing! Especially if she's recommending unnecessary surgeries. Seriously! You want to be safe.
When you start T, the T levels have to compete with the estrogen levels already present. Eventually the T levels over-power the estrogen levels. So yes, changes will take a little longer because you have to wait a bit for the T to do it's magic, but it still works. You can always go on an estrogen blocker if you're that concerned about competing hormone levels. Most people begin testosterone therapy without an estrogen blocker, and they do just fine.
Also, i have a full beard and i still have my ovaries. Haha i know quite a few guys with beards and ovaries. One of my buddies has a HUGE beard, like all the way down to his chest.
Personally, if your doctor is recommending it and your insurance will cover it, go for it.
And I say this because I want to KILL ALL THE OVARIES!!
Why?
Effing ovaries will likely kill my sister this year. F**K OVARIES.
Rid yourselves of the evil things.
Jay ::off soapbox::
I don't know how it's done everywhere else, but in Australia the vaccine was given out for free to everyone in a certain age group. That being said, anyone else could go to their doctor and get it, they just had to pay for it like any other medication.
Don't quote me on this, but I remember reading somewhere on wikipedia that for FTM's who hadn't had vaginal intercourse, there were theories that a physical exam would not be needed. I know that doesn't help anyone who has had intercourse, but if you haven't, it's something useful to know.
I remember it well because I spazzed with joy when I read it. I'm never allowing anyone to do that to me, I'll take the cancer over the mental trauma thank you.
I'm going to have to go and find that info again!
-runs off to do research-
Started T about a year ago, had ovaries removed (with the rest of the bits) in September.
Had excellent T effects before the surgery.
There is a little difference since surgery but I definitely didn't "need" it for sake of T effects.
Just had my annual exam, told my doc I was hoping I would need a hysterectomy for medical reasons so my insurance would cover it. She said I would be fine if I didn't just make sure I come in every year. The advantage to having one is I would be able to lower my T dose even more. If all else fails I can get one here in Portland for $10,000.
Myles