gendertrender.wordpress.com
I've been in a debate with this woman since Christmas Eve. (Lovely time for discrimination and trans hate, you know.) Mostly she rants against "T-Mod Girls" (FTMs), but she also earned a place on my list of human demons for posting a video of a latex mask fetishist and claiming him to be MTF under a rant of "autogynophiliacs" destroying women.
Some gems from her site:
""Transgender" has a certain cachet, a certain alterna-cool about it for those in middle school and high school years. Declaring one's trans status is like getting the ultimate super-cool tattoo or piercing body mod and provides girls with "special" status and treatment among their peers as well as school officials, employers, parents and other authorities."
"The trans tweener trenders bond and encourage online via YouTube groups and web forums which function much like pro-ana, pro-mia, and trans-abled communities, encouraging dysphoria and censoring questioning and dissent."
"[Transgender Trope #8. "People" commit violence against the insufficiently camouflaged transgender."
"most men trannify in middle age after marriage and male privileged career and children. They fashion their bodies into a woman-suit as the ultimate mid-life gift to themselves after a lifetime of autogynophillic sexual fetishism."
I get the feeling she's going to be the new Dirt. Just thought I'd let you all know. Taking all my restraint to speak to her in a civilised manner rather than furiously screaming at the computer screen.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Hate + Hate is just more hate.
Lolz, yet another 'normal' person in serious need of quality time with a medical mental professional. Is it just me or are we now entering an era of 'OMG they're everywhere!! Hates!! Do not want!!!' trans panic as visibility increases?
tekla - Truly, you're right, and I'd like to just turn that hate into acceptance rather than ranting at her. Unfortunately, my patience with discrimination is low, and when I'm being personally attacked hatred in return is a gut reaction. Wish I could stop that, life would be more pleasant if I could ignore these sorts of things.
Ohhh, I cannot express myself on Susans well enough without getting blocked or something. Crap.
So, I'm just going to say this: Anyone else pissed off that FTMs apparently don't exist and that we're all just misogynist females because society is sexist? Where I live, boys and girls are pretty much equal. Transgender people here get crap from other people, but nobody will say it to their faces.
Quote
""Transgender" has a certain cachet, a certain alterna-cool about it for those in middle school and high school years. Declaring one's trans status is like getting the ultimate super-cool tattoo or piercing body mod and provides girls with "special" status and treatment among their peers as well as school officials, employers, parents and other authorities."
Since
when?
Mustnotclicklinkmustnotclicklinkmustnotclicklink
It takes a particularly sick person to target trans people - especially when they using phrases from oppression dynamic language like 'male privilege'.
You can always ignore her blog. It might take a supreme act of will power in the beginning, but you'll soon get into the habit of not going there, and then you're set.
I don't know why such blogs are so attractive to so many of us...maybe it's related to the way people slow down to look at a traffic accident. I say, leave them to their hate. You don't need the aggravation, my friend.
Quote from: Vexing on December 28, 2010, 09:12:36 PM
It takes a particularly sick person to target trans people - especially when they using phrases from oppression dynamic language like 'male privilege'.
I love the way the concept of male privilege is used as an argument against both trans men and trans women. C'mon, people, get your story straight.
Male privilege is a completely normal concept to me, being raised by a supreme feminist, who thankfully eventually got over it and became very supportive. I think I'm so tempted to intervene because I was able to change one radical feminist and I think I can change more. And I can, I just need a surgical drill and brain surgeon lovely, long chat with them.
Yeah, Devyn, I was treated awesomely as a somewhat butch girl. People got me, adults thought I was totally kickass and smart and progressive, cashiers were very friendly. Now I say "excuse me" politely and am first ignored, then reluctantly allowed to pass with a "better move out of its way." Femme guys are not treated well outside of metropolitan areas.
Quote from: Arch on December 28, 2010, 09:14:14 PM
I love the way the concept of male privilege is used as an argument against both trans men and trans women. C'mon, people, get your story straight.
And it swings and changes to suit their arguments, there's little logic to be found on these pages.
Premise A: trans men gain male privilege by 'disguising' themselves as men.
If A is true, then trans women must lose male privilege by 'disguising' themselves as men.
Apparently not though. It's a magic, one way street, the portal enforced by Guards of the Patriarchy who can ALWAYS tell who is REALLY a man and who is not. Oh wait, that means trans men wouldn't get through...
Anyway, in my experience these hate blogs are run by cis, middle-to-upper class, 19-23 year old, able-boddied white women who have done a semester of women's studies, read Germaine Greer, 'chosen' to be lesbians for the cause (even though they love penis) and then decide that they will be the FIRST to do something EDGY and HARD HITTING like deconstructing ->-bleeped-<- to EMPOWER WOMYNZ!
Just like several hundred other first year lame ass women's studies snotbags who are too lazy to find something new to do.
Just let them think they're cool. They'll need the self-esteem boost when they start getting Fs in class.
Quote from: Vexing on December 28, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
Anyway, in my experience these hate blogs are run by cis, middle-to-upper class, 19-23 year old, able-boddied white women who have done a semester of women's studies, read Germaine Greer, 'chosen' to be lesbians for the cause (even though they love penis) and then decide that they will be the FIRST to do something EDGY and HARD HITTING like deconstructing ->-bleeped-<- to EMPOWER WOMYNZ!
Just like several hundred other first year lame ass women's studies snotbags who are too lazy to find something new to do.
Just let them think they're cool. They'll need the self-esteem boost when they start getting Fs in class.
No! Crazy ass illiterate (womyn, womon wtf!) wanabe lesbian, I hate men cause daddy wouldn't buy me a pony idiots must be stopped!! :icon_evil: :icon_censored:Too much? Uh ok :embarrassed:
I'm still angry about that slimeball who lifted pictures from here! >:(
To be fair, there do tend to be people (normally young teenagers) who pretty much pretend to be trans just for the attention and to feel special (probably due to low self-esteem). They CONVINCE themselves they are and are really just annoying. I knew one IRL, not fun at all. Pretty much latched onto me like a leech and tried to hold me above others. So just don't take what she says to heart.
It might take a supreme act of will power
What? To ignore morons? The only time it takes a supreme act of will to ignore a moron is if your a moron.
Quote from: Rain on December 28, 2010, 10:31:47 PM
To be fair, there do tend to be people (normally young teenagers) who pretty much pretend to be trans just for the attention and to feel special (probably due to low self-esteem). They CONVINCE themselves they are and are really just annoying. I knew one IRL, not fun at all. Pretty much latched onto me like a leech and tried to hold me above others. So just don't take what she says to heart.
I would punch somebody like that. Boy or girl, I don't care. I'd do it. Just saying.
I would not be suprised if the new hate blog is writen by Dirt. The style of writing and cadence are very similar.
Quote from: Devyn on December 28, 2010, 10:36:13 PM
I would punch somebody like that. Boy or girl, I don't care. I'd do it. Just saying.
Yeah, man. I tried to be patient with him for a long time and help him figure his feelings out, but it just wore on and on and on and I finally lost my patience and flipped out on him. He still sometimes tries to pester me even though I haven't talked/seen him in half a year. Creepy people like that, ungh. They tend to get more attention and create a negative image for everyone else.
I would not be suprised if the new hate blog is writen by Dirt. The style of writing and cadence are very similar.
It all sounds the same because it's all just derivitive of the nonsense spouted by Janice Raymond and Co in the 1970's. The names change, the hate remains the same. :icon_blahblah:
Quote from: Devyn on December 28, 2010, 10:36:13 PM
I would punch somebody like that. Boy or girl, I don't care. I'd do it. Just saying.
There's at least one on these forums right now.
Quote from: cynthialee on December 28, 2010, 10:39:47 PM
I would not be suprised if the new hate blog is writen by Dirt. The style of writing and cadence are very similar.
Given how attention-seeking she is, I would not doubt that. Dirt seems to be one of those people who would do anything for attention, whether positive or negative.
Solution...
Do not give attention.
Dirt seems to be one of those people who would do anything for attention, whether positive or negative.
I fail to see how that separates her much from anyone else writing a blog.
I couldn't even read past the first sentence of incomprehensible psycho-babble. If I can't read it, it has no impact on me at all. ???
Quote from: Vexing on December 28, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
Anyway, in my experience these hate blogs are run by cis, middle-to-upper class, 19-23 year old, able-boddied white women who have done a semester of women's studies, read Germaine Greer, 'chosen' to be lesbians for the cause (even though they love penis) and then decide that they will be the FIRST to do something EDGY and HARD HITTING like deconstructing ->-bleeped-<- to EMPOWER WOMYNZ!
Just like several hundred other first year lame ass women's studies snotbags who are too lazy to find something new to do.
Just let them think they're cool. They'll need the self-esteem boost when they start getting Fs in class.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It's kind of sad how they twist logic and a lot of the same theories I covered at uni to spout a stream of invective. I've said it before, but it is kind of pathetic how many radical feminists have pretty much become the thing they profess to hate, using the language of control to other those that the hold inferior to themselves. Which is the very thing they were railing against in the first place.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
But no knowledge is even more dangerous.
The linked blog receives a massive benefit, and vote of confidence from Susans.org whether or not a single person clicks on the link? Why?
Because search engines like Google, determine a site's authority by (in part) analyzing the quality of sites linking to it. In other words, Susans.org holds a lot of respect in its subject area on Google (5/10 PR), whereas this linked blog currently has little to no authority to Google (0/10 PR).
When Google's robot comes across that post, and sees a site like Susans linking to a site like that one, it will use that vote of confidence in determining how high up in the listings that site ranks when people do searches on Google.
The higher up in rankings you appear, the more eyeballs you get.
Unfortunately the robots can't really tell that we all have serious objections to the quality of the link, and that our purpose in linking to it is actually the opposite intention - to discredit it. Google's robot only sees and follows the link, and assigns relevancy based on the "buzz" coming from a reputable site like Susans.org
(This explanation is a little oversimplified I know)
It is impossible to change the mind of a person whose mind is closed to change. And as such I try to avoid such pointless discussion. No one wins a flame war.
However, we cannot let the hatred that people like this foster go unopposed to those who are unaware of our condition. Those who question, those who are seeking answers need to be shown that this is hateful, phobic nonsense and quackery. For example, imagine a young, questioning trans youth who is trying to understand their life long pain because of their dysphoria. Imagine finding only this hateful screed written as fact, telling them that they are deviants. Without the opposition, these seekers would be thrown into even more self hatred than they already have for themselves.
People like yourself, and Zoe Brain, a denizen of Susan's and who really is a rocket scientist, take these people head on time and again. They show them up as the bigots that they truly are.
No, you cannot ever convince this hateful bigot that they are wrong and they will never change their mind. But someone else may be saved because of it.
Thank you.
-Sandy
Quote from: Madelyn on December 29, 2010, 09:36:21 AM
The linked blog receives a massive benefit, and vote of confidence from Susans.org whether or not a single person clicks on the link? Why?
Because search engines like Google, determine a site's authority by (in part) analyzing the quality of sites linking to it. In other words, Susans.org holds a lot of respect in its subject area on Google (5/10 PR), whereas this linked blog currently has little to no authority to Google (0/10 PR).
When Google's robot comes across that post, and sees a site like Susans linking to a site like that one, it will use that vote of confidence in determining how high up in the listings that site ranks when people do searches on Google.
The higher up in rankings you appear, the more eyeballs you get.
Unfortunately the robots can't really tell that we all have serious objections to the quality of the link, and that our purpose in linking to it is actually the opposite intention - to discredit it. Google's robot only sees and follows the link, and assigns relevancy based on the "buzz" coming from a reputable site like Susans.org
(This explanation is a little oversimplified I know)
That is true, however our news admins, a hearty lot indeed, regularly troll such sites in search of hateful news for the benefit of our group here. So as a result, they already are clicking up the ranking of these trash sites. But to turn a blind eye to these ugly sites invites more hatred to spread because it goes unopposed.
It is said that the best disinfectant is sunshine. To show these roaches up as the hateful bigots that they are helps others know that there is salvation in the world.
-Sandy
It's not so much the clicking itself that is a problem in my opinion. But the link itself being posted on a site like this because it means that Google itself will drive more traffic to the site apart from any context from a susans discussion.
On susans a reader gets context, but when that blog ranks higher overall on the iternet it is without context. Its not the direct promotion of this blog that is a concern - as you say sunshine is great medicine. But the indirect benefit the blog recieves by higher ranking after the fact isn't like sunshine at all because it happens outside the susans discussion entirely. It just means when someone searches for "trans" on google, that blog will appear higher up on the list, and this discussion will not provide context.
That's all I meant. I don't disagree with you at all onthe need to discuss. It just pains me to know what also happens on the back end.
I decided long ago to keep crap out of my life. Thus, I don't like or let negativity into my life. I rarely watch the news, just scan headlines online, and stay away from crap like this. it's one thing to try to educate people; quite another to get into it with someone who is not going to listen and who will twist and use my words and objections to further fuel their rants. Not worth it.
If you wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty, but the pig likes it.
Jay
I would edit that link out or at least try to goggle bomb it lol.
Quote from: Devyn on December 28, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Ohhh, I cannot express myself on Susans well enough without getting blocked or something. Crap.
So, I'm just going to say this: Anyone else pissed off that FTMs apparently don't exist and that we're all just misogynist females because society is sexist? Where I live, boys and girls are pretty much equal. Transgender people here get crap from other people, but nobody will say it to their faces.
*raises hand*
I'v never had to deal with being treated as lesses because I appear to be a woman on the outside. Actually I get treated better then men my age.
Quote
"Transgender" has a certain cachet, a certain alterna-cool about it for those in middle school and high school years. Declaring one's trans status is like getting the ultimate super-cool tattoo or piercing body mod and provides girls with "special" status and treatment among their peers as well as school officials, employers, parents and other authorities."
Wut ? I was outcasted, misunderstood, bullied, miserable and lonely.
I don't have contact with anyone from ANY school I went too, it was the worse period of my life, isn't that awesome, totally the new cool. Yeah you should be jealous at that , LMAO!
hmmmm, I wonder if it's possible to deconstruct the rad Fem stance on transexuals using linguistic and media theories? I feel a sudden urge to try for some reason
I transitioned to become a gay man, precisely because they are revered in society and granted all sorts of privileges that a straight woman will never have.
::hurl::
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on December 29, 2010, 01:55:15 PM
I transitioned to become a gay man, precisely because they are revered in society and granted all sorts of privileges that a straight woman will never have.
::hurl::
Jay
ROTFL
I always think it's so cute the way Americans bend stuff until it becomes a linguistic paper-clip or pretzel to avoid the work 'class.'
Quote from: Sandy on December 29, 2010, 09:45:50 AM
However, we cannot let the hatred that people like this foster go unopposed to those who are unaware of our condition. Those who question, those who are seeking answers need to be shown that this is hateful, phobic nonsense and quackery. For example, imagine a young, questioning trans youth who is trying to understand their life long pain because of their dysphoria. Imagine finding only this hateful screed written as fact, telling them that they are deviants. Without the opposition, these seekers would be thrown into even more self hatred than they already have for themselves.
This is a significant part of why I continue to foolishly throw myself into the middle of conflicts like this. I don't want to see a page of bigotry go unquestioned, with only mindless support commenting and affirming their statements. When I come across such sites, I feel nauseated. It's the opposition appearing to question such sites that gives me hope.
I remember being that trans youth. I had little self hatred, but no confidence that I could ever be complete or accepted. If I saw this site in the beginning, I would have been crushed, and possibly gone back into that painful state of denial. I blog because I want to show trans youth that there is hope, and that there was someone like them struggling in the same ways. I'm not about to let another blog take that hope away.
Quote from: Nikolai_S on December 29, 2010, 02:29:52 PM
This is a significant part of why I continue to foolishly throw myself into the middle of conflicts like this. I don't want to see a page of bigotry go unquestioned, with only mindless support commenting and affirming their statements. When I come across such sites, I feel nauseated. It's the opposition appearing to question such sites that gives me hope.
I remember being that trans youth. I had little self hatred, but no confidence that I could ever be complete or accepted. If I saw this site in the beginning, I would have been crushed, and possibly gone back into that painful state of denial. I blog because I want to show trans youth that there is hope, and that there was someone like them struggling in the same ways. I'm not about to let another blog take that hope away.
well, after repeatedly being seriously annoyed by the rad fems seemingly incoherent hatred towards TS individuals I'm going to fight back...they want to deconstruct the trans narrative, well I'll return the favour and deconstruct theirs. And I'll do it properly...time to visit the library and brush up on my media theories i think.
Nikolai...I'm holding you responsible if my social life becomes non-existant. ;)
Serious arguments against this kind of stuff tends to legitimize it, as opposed to defeating it.
Quote from: Helena on December 29, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
well, after repeatedly being seriously annoyed by the rad fems seemingly incoherent hatred towards TS individuals I'm going to fight back...they want to deconstruct the trans narrative, well I'll return the favour and deconstruct theirs. And I'll do it properly...time to visit the library and brush up on my media theories i think.
I've done it several times; there are a large number of logical inconsistencies in their writings; the privilege argument being one, the denial of the existence of passable trans woman being another. The problem is that they don't care that they are wrong. They want to hate and we are vulnerable, easy targets.
The biggest problem with their ideals is that they don't represent liberation for women, instead they represent a new set of rules and gendered behaviours - the replacement of Patriarchy with Matriarchy (i.e. "If you shave your legs you're a traitor" "If you stay at home to raise your kids you're a traitor" "If you wear makeup you're a traitor" etc).
....their version of matriarchy with the eliete amongst them at the helm of course
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2010, 04:41:44 PM
Serious arguments against this kind of stuff tends to legitimize it, as opposed to defeating it.
I suppose that's a fair point, but don't forget that in the minds of the rad fems any counter argument espoused by a TS individual is ultimately null and void due to them being TS, their beliefs are 100% legitimate in their own eyes, anything that I potentially write would be aimed at inquisitive people who don't really have an opinion either way but are just interested. Basically the more balanced and properly researched i make things, while potentially legitimising those views by treating them as serious, the more that people sitting on the intellectual fence will be swayed towards my arguments (which is good)...I mean you have to admit the average rad fem hate blogger does not a coherent writer make.
Plus it'll keep my mind in shape for when I go back to uni to get my teaching degree.
Quote from: Vexing on December 29, 2010, 04:46:51 PM
I've done it several times; there are a large number of logical inconsistencies in their writings; the privilege argument being one, the denial of the existence of passable trans woman being another. The problem is that they don't care that they are wrong. They want to hate and we are vulnerable, easy targets.
The biggest problem with their ideals is that they don't represent liberation for women, instead they represent a new set of rules and gendered behaviours - the replacement of Patriarchy with Matriarchy (i.e. "If you shave your legs you're a traitor" "If you stay at home to raise your kids you're a traitor" "If you wear makeup you're a traitor" etc).
Yep, noticed that...it always amuses me that they've effectively become the very thing they profess to hate. Anyway, if i do write something (i'm a lazy cow) it'll be as much about the intellectual exercise of presenting an argument in an academic manner as anything. I've been seriously considering doing a masters/teaching degree recently and it's always good to keep in practice.
Heh.. more biggotry...why wont it just die
Because people keep on posting it, linking to it, and others keep on clicking on it.
But its been around before the internet. Sadly I think its a permanent resadance in the world
Quote from: Helena on December 29, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
well, after repeatedly being seriously annoyed by the rad fems seemingly incoherent hatred towards TS individuals I'm going to fight back...they want to deconstruct the trans narrative, well I'll return the favour and deconstruct theirs. And I'll do it properly...time to visit the library and brush up on my media theories i think.
Well it'd be good writing exercise, but shredding radfem theories is a piece of piss, it's just anyone who subscribes to them won't be listening when you do it.
Quote from: Helena on December 29, 2010, 04:55:14 PM
I suppose that's a fair point, but don't forget that in the minds of the rad fems any counter argument espoused by a TS individual is ultimately null and void due to them being TS, their beliefs are 100% legitimate in their own eyes, anything that I potentially write would be aimed at inquisitive people who don't really have an opinion either way but are just interested. Basically the more balanced and properly researched i make things, while potentially legitimising those views by treating them as serious, the more that people sitting on the intellectual fence will be swayed towards my arguments (which is good)...I mean you have to admit the average rad fem hate blogger does not a coherent writer make.
I think it isn't really a fair point, but what do I know? I love tilting at windmills! Seriously though, I don't think offering pointed counterargument necessarily lends credence to the nutjobs, as much as it exposes them for the fallacious hypocrites they really are.
I agree with the rest of what you said, though. We're not going to change the minds of the insane radfems, but we can't let this stuff stand out there unopposed. Reasonable people can and will see the difference. As I've said before, though, never engage them on territory they control. Their most common tactic is to delete anything with which they disagree. See The Magazine Project (which curiously allowed my posts to stand, so far) for a great recent example.
No amount of intellectual arguments, facts, realities or proofs can ever sway a true believer. Radical feminists are no different than the Sara Palin fan club over at FreeRepublic.
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2010, 11:33:19 PM
No amount of intellectual arguments, facts, realities or proofs can ever sway a true believer. Radical feminists are no different than the Sara Palin fan club over at FreeRepublic.
In actual fact, providing them with facts contrary to their beliefs actually makes their beliefs
stronger.
Read more here: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full)
Seriously, where does this hate even come from?
Quote from: Lee on December 30, 2010, 02:20:08 AM
Seriously, where does this hate even come from?
In this instance, I suspect it's externalised self-hatred.
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2010, 11:33:19 PM
No amount of intellectual arguments, facts, realities or proofs can ever sway a true believer. Radical feminists are no different than the Sara Palin fan club over at FreeRepublic.
Myers' Axiom: You can't use reason to talk someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at.
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2010, 08:29:46 AM
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
But no knowledge is even more dangerous.
Not necessarily.
Quote from: Miniar on December 30, 2010, 09:53:57 AM
Myers' Axiom: You can't use reason to talk someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at.
Agreed. I've tried several times to have level headed intellectual debates with those kinds of people. They just dig their heels in get ready to fight and insist on whatever nonsense they have come to a conclusion on.
It's a pain, especially because they
have to be right. I think it becomes less of what the actual facts are and more about being right from the get go. Because they could
never be
wrong.
And thats just people in general with this kind of stubborn and ignorant trait. Very bad combination.
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2010, 11:33:19 PM
No amount of intellectual arguments, facts, realities or proofs can ever sway a true believer. Radical feminists are no different than the Sara Palin fan club over at FreeRepublic.
I absolutely agree. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that counter-arguments are not worth presenting.
I sometimes comment on Dirt's blog (mostly to say "hey, I'm trans, I don't hate women, I'm not a monster, also, TAKE DOWN THE PICS OF MY FRIENDS"). I recieve replies such as "Wow, it's cool to hear the inside perspective of a post-lobotomy woman, a victim of the Male Medical Machine."
What is this I don't even (my reaction to everything she says ever)
Yeah... She regularly searches for ftm on youtube and then take screenshots of their faces and then writes something like "Look at these poor delusional women" as a caption. Seriously. What is the problem with all the haters? Why so angry?
Quote from: PixieBoy on January 01, 2011, 11:04:20 AM
I sometimes comment on Dirt's blog (mostly to say "hey, I'm trans, I don't hate women, I'm not a monster, also, TAKE DOWN THE PICS OF MY FRIENDS"). I recieve replies such as "Wow, it's cool to hear the inside perspective of a post-lobotomy woman, a victim of the Male Medical Machine."
What is this I don't even (my reaction to everything she says ever)
Yeah... She regularly searches for ftm on youtube and then take screenshots of their faces and then writes something like "Look at these poor delusional women" as a caption. Seriously. What is the problem with all the haters? Why so angry?
All signs point strongly to someone who is FTM themselves, but cannot reconcile it with their
fundamentalist rad feminist beliefs and if forever trapped in the 'evangelist' role where they preach against it fervently even though they dress up as a guy in private and wear packers.
It is one thing to have a debate with someone who holds an opinion but is open to listening to logical arguments that can be backed up with good evidence.
It is another thing to have a debate with someone who is dogmatic*.
You are never going to sway someone with a dogmatic position, they believe what they believe and will use every counter-argument as proof that they are correct.
*used here in the secular sense
Quote from: Vexing on December 28, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
Anyway, in my experience these hate blogs are run by cis, middle-to-upper class, 19-23 year old, able-boddied white women who have done a semester of women's studies, read Germaine Greer, 'chosen' to be lesbians for the cause (even though they love penis) and then decide that they will be the FIRST to do something EDGY and HARD HITTING like deconstructing ->-bleeped-<- to EMPOWER WOMYNZ!
Just like several hundred other first year lame ass women's studies snotbags who are too lazy to find something new to do.
Just let them think they're cool. They'll need the self-esteem boost when they start getting Fs in class.
Vexing, I'm really getting to respect you. I love your comments, seriously.
This woman sounds like a complete psychopath. I give you a lot of credit for being able to keep it civil, but I don't even see the point in arguing with this kind of person. They're so indoctrinated in their own BS that anything ANYONE else says is going to be either considered denial or somesuchbull->-bleeped-<-.
Quote from: N.Chaos on January 07, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
Vexing, I'm really getting to respect you. I love your comments, seriously.
Aww shucks, thank you! :D
QuoteThis woman sounds like a complete psychopath. I give you a lot of credit for being able to keep it civil, but I don't even see the point in arguing with this kind of person. They're so indoctrinated in their own BS that anything ANYONE else says is going to be either considered denial or somesuchbull->-bleeped-<-.
The best one can ever hope for in a discussion with these people is to have some fun at their expense. If you engage them seriously, you've kinda already lost.
Quote from: N.Chaos on January 07, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
This woman sounds like a complete psychopath. I give you a lot of credit for being able to keep it civil, but I don't even see the point in arguing with this kind of person. They're so indoctrinated in their own BS that anything ANYONE else says is going to be either considered denial or somesuchbull->-bleeped-<-.
Very true. At first I was glad that she at least seemed to be replying to and analysing my points, but when she and her cult-like followers brought out the capslock I decided it was best to abandon it. Arguing has no point when all one party can do is scream "MISOGYNY!" at the top of their lungs.
brought out the capslock I decided it was best to abandon it
Yeah, because if that didn't work they might have resorted to exclamation points. I would have run away too.
Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2011, 05:44:17 PM
brought out the capslock I decided it was best to abandon it
Yeah, because if that didn't work they might have resorted to exclamation points. I would have run away too.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. What I meant was they were going beyond semi-rational conversation and simply bashing anything trans related as vehemently as possible, while ignoring any opposition, as much as possible. It was pointless and making me increasingly inclined to a more aggressive stance that wouldn't have helped my case at all.
If you even think about beginning to start to argue with them you've already lost.
A debate should never be about winning or losing. I hoped to draw attention to their logical fallacies and present an opposing view. Honestly, I was more interesting in exercising my logic and verbal skills than hoping to change their minds. I knew the latter was pointless from the start.
In so doing you lowered yourself to their level and became just exactly like they are.
I disagree. I am always open to logic to sway my views, even if I am supposedly certain of something. It's part of intelligence. I socialise with enemies because they may have some truth of which I am unaware. They don't do the same. They want to force others to be the same as them, with whatever tactics necessary.
If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2011, 10:30:40 PM
If you even think about beginning to start to argue with them you've already lost.
Is there an echo in here?
Or- "Never argue with an idiot. They will beat you on experience and drag you down to their level."
Sounds like a classic example.
Nikolai next time you feel inclined to respond to that blogger just tell her she is displaying the extreme BRSS of the long term lesbian.
As opposed to a temporary lesbian? ???
I don't know what BRSS is, I don't think that I want to know!
I disagree with tekla as well actually.
You don't lower yourself to the level of the screaming idiot unless you start screaming like an idiot too.
And There is a reason to point out logic flaws and express differing views even if you doubt you'll ever be able to sway someone since if the reader does not see any dissenting voices the reader may assume that there are no dissenting voices.
You should just be aware that it's a hopeless endeavor and know to back away when it's started to make you upset.
Quote from: MillieB on January 08, 2011, 09:29:15 AM
I don't know what BRSS is, I don't think that I want to know!
well according to google BRSS is Bromsgrove Rovers Supporters Society, and is a really debilitating condition
Quote from: Helena on January 08, 2011, 12:09:09 PM
well according to google BRSS is Bromsgrove Rovers Supporters Society, and is a really debilitating condition
My google says it's;
Blue Ridge Soaring Society (New Castle, VA)
Brigade Remote Subscriber Service
Built Rite Storage Solutions
Quote from: Miniar on January 08, 2011, 12:13:52 PM
My google says it's;
Blue Ridge Soaring Society (New Castle, VA)
Brigade Remote Subscriber Service
Built Rite Storage Solutions
I got some of those as well, but it's widely believed that Bromsgrove Rovers Supporters Society is the most debilitating condition by a country mile.
Quote from: Helena on January 08, 2011, 02:23:05 PM
I got some of those as well, but it's widely believed that Bromsgrove Rovers Supporters Society is the most debilitating condition by a country mile.
I loll'd :D
Funny thing is I got a college class.
Bard-Rockefeller Semester in Science
Blue Rigde Soaring Society looks awesome!!!!!! :o ;D ;D
Do you think the radfems would get upset if they knew that we've stopped talking about them and just started being silly! >:-)
Probably since they seem to like the attention. This is much more fun.
Tekla and Vexing are absolutely right. No matter how thought out or well written or factual your arguments are, they will invariably fall back into their defensive stance and mindlessly repeat their tired rhetoric to anything you say, over and over and over until you give up, then they take your decision to leave the debate as proof that they are right. They are fanatical in their devotion to their cause, and they are well practiced in their feminist wordplay. Their ability to listen to reason and think for themselves has been stripped away just like any religious fanatic until all they can do is follow orders and repeat what has been hammered into their heads. They are very good at turning what anyone says around on them as further proof that their cause is just, and further, that there is need to continue to recruit.
I stopped paying attention to Dirt and her kind quite awhile ago. Their opinions and beliefs have no meaning to me or my way of living. I'm also much happier.
Quote from: LordKAT on January 08, 2011, 07:26:01 PM
Probably since they seem to like the attention. This is much more fun.
On that note, I got Board Recognized Specialist - Swallowing
http://www.swallowingdisorders.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34:what-will-the-brss-specialist-do-to-help-me-with-my-swallowing-problem&catid=13:frequently-asked-questions-about-swallowing&Itemid=287 (http://www.swallowingdisorders.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34:what-will-the-brss-specialist-do-to-help-me-with-my-swallowing-problem&catid=13:frequently-asked-questions-about-swallowing&Itemid=287)
Okay, Google is hopeless so I'm just going to have to start making it up.
I think that it stands for Brie, Rocket & Spinich Sandwich.....Yum (I think!) ;D
Bigots Really Sound (like) S#$t?
Quote from: MillieB on January 08, 2011, 07:24:27 PM
Do you think the radfems would get upset if they knew that we've stopped talking about them and just started being silly! >:-)
I'd imagine they'd hate it...there's one thing that people who take themselves way to seriously hate and that's being laughed at.
Quote from: April Dawne on January 08, 2011, 08:41:13 PM
Tekla and Vexing are absolutely right. No matter how thought out or well written or factual your arguments are, they will invariably fall back into their defensive stance and mindlessly repeat their tired rhetoric to anything you say, over and over and over until you give up, then they take your decision to leave the debate as proof that they are right. They are fanatical in their devotion to their cause, and they are well practiced in their feminist wordplay. Their ability to listen to reason and think for themselves has been stripped away just like any religious fanatic until all they can do is follow orders and repeat what has been hammered into their heads. They are very good at turning what anyone says around on them as further proof that their cause is just, and further, that there is need to continue to recruit.
I stopped paying attention to Dirt and her kind quite awhile ago. Their opinions and beliefs have no meaning to me or my way of living. I'm also much happier.
This is a good point. There is just no arguing with fanatics.
I stopped arguing with people a long time ago. As soon as I discover that the person cannot be reasoned with, I immediately stop and ignore the person. If I really feel the need to, I will contribute my point of view simply for other people who might be following it, in the hopes that someone else will gain from it... but I don't fool myself into thinking that I'll change a fanatic's mind.
I'd also add that I don't need or want their permission or approval to live my life as I see fit. I've tried the alternative, and it simply did not work. They will never know what it's like to be you or I; they only know what it's like to be a penis-hating radical feminist* that wants to establish a new world order with themselves appointed as supreme ruler. They don't just want equality, they want the utter destruction of anyone who doesn't fall in line or fit their mold. I'm really tired of hearing them regurgitate their words ad nauseum, particularly the word "patriarchy", and phrases like "Male Medical Machine" etc etc etc. I guess if they repeat it long enough it becomes true. At least to their minds.
*apologies to the majority of Feminists; I know I'm speaking of a small minority in the Feminist camp, but they speak so loudly they have become a hateful caricature of Feminism.
Quote from: April Dawne on January 09, 2011, 11:21:10 AM
I'd also add that I don't need or want their permission or approval to live my life as I see fit. I've tried the alternative, and it simply did not work. They will never know what it's like to be you or I; they only know what it's like to be a penis-hating radical feminist* that wants to establish a new world order with themselves appointed as supreme ruler. They don't just want equality, they want the utter destruction of anyone who doesn't fall in line or fit their mold. I'm really tired of hearing them regurgitate their words ad nauseum, particularly the word "patriarchy", and phrases like "Male Medical Machine" etc etc etc. I guess if they repeat it long enough it becomes true. At least to their minds.
*apologies to the majority of Feminists; I know I'm speaking of a small minority in the Feminist camp, but they speak so loudly they have become a hateful caricature of Feminism.
Don't read or listen to it then, works for me!! ;)