This forces some of us (like me) to edit our narratves just to get horomones.
You don't have to edit your narratives at all if you have the right therapist. I've been reading your posts, and I haven't replied to any of them, but now is the time. My narrative is very similar to yours. I haven't known since birth, I had a long period where I thought I was okay with being a girl, and I went through a lot of the confusion you've showed. But in a couple of weeks, even when I've not lied to my therapist once about my narrative, not even stretched the truth, I've got a consult for hormones. That's basically a green light. So my advice to you is to try to find a new therapist your parents approve of and tell the truth. That's how you can get the best help.
He's right. Really the only reason they exist is to help us. Well, that's why they are supposed to exist. Sadly some don't follow that but a good therapist will. They are there to help a questioning person be sure they are trans because they don't want someone to start hormones and see that they've made a choice not right for them. The problem is that some take that to the wrong extent. You really just need to find a new therapist because clearly this one is not working and if anything is making things worse.
My therapy went like this: I told my therapist I was trans first visit and that I was there to get my letter. We had some visits later before I got my letter but most of those visits were going through my life to make sure I was ready for the change and could handle it. The others were showing him that I knew what things would happen and I knew the potential bad side effects and could handle those if they happened. He wanted to know that I could handle living in the world as male. That's it.
I must agree with the others.
If androgynes can get HRT for partial transition then so can you.
I'm not your average trans, and I didn't have to edit my narrative at all. They saw I was happier living full time as male versus Dr reports from a year ago when I was super depressed, anxious etc./not out and living as female. Asked some questions about that, asked if I thought most of my previous depression and anxiety was related to that, and about what activities I enjoyed now and as a child and that was it. Really none of that childhood stuff was really discussed.
It is impossible to know if a therapist is good or bad. All you can do is try one and see what happens.
It's wonderful that many have found good therapists. Equally, it's tragic that some seem to fall into the hands of bad one and really bad ones.
The the point of the gate keeper is that we have to beg in the first place.
But as has been suggested by others, go there and see what happens.
You don't. You can find places that practice informed consent.
transsexualism/->-bleeped-<- is for the biggest part self diagnosed, your past isn't as important as the books or the outside world portray it to be. If you can find a good gender shrink they will understand.
I never change my narrative one bit, Ether help me of get the hell out of my way. And all anyone has done is say "Yes Ma am".
We live in a world that wants to only see female and male, not in between or abnormal by those whom feel insecure to their personal being. You have the right to be whom are and choose to live as such.
Chalk me up as a big informed consent advocate. I walked into the Mazzoni Center in Philadelphia, requested a prescription for HRT, and walked out that day with the Rx in my hand for spiro (not to mention a negative result on my HIV test). One month later, after the results of my blood work came back, I had a brief counseling visit so they could be comfortable I knew what the hell I was doing, and walked out with an Rx for estradiol in my hand.
Both scripts were filled immediately at the Walgreens pharmacy attached to the Mazzoni Center, where they were kind enough to enter my prescriptions under my preferred name. I'm self-pay, and the scripts cost me about 25 USD/mo to maintain. Easy peasy.
At my three month followup for more blood work, my endo pretty much forced me to take the form for changing the gender marker on my DL. I wasn't sure it was really necessary, but now I'm glad I got it (and did it).
After that, it's new blood work every six months, unless something weird happens. That's all. No gatekeeping, no justification, no nonsense. Next thing, I'll be changing my passport.
There seems to be a majority reporting positive attitudes, while very few with negative. Surprising, given the numbers of our members here, reporting negative experiences.
If you will, I'd like to make a few points about these therapists.
Firstly, I am referring to those that call themselves psychologists and wave degrees around, to the therapists who set themselves up, based upon a 6 week correspondence source cut out of a comic.
These people are not professionals
I am a registered nurse. I am also trained to be a therapist, indeed, many nurses have job titles where they are called therapists.
My training was based upon international standards. I could meet a nurse from New York, Delhi, Timbuktu and we would all have had, basically similar training.
There is no standard for these people. Some have degrees, even doctorates. But there are no standards. A doctorate that is not based upon standards, is as relevant as the opinions of a drunken sailor.
I was trained to deal with babies up to infant, adults, the elderly. I have no training in adolescence or children. I would never even think of attempting any sort of professional interaction in an area I have not been trained for.
These people have no training standards. There are numerous instances, on these pages, of people reporting that their therapist has admitted they have no experience in the field.
These people have no ethics.
As a registered nurse, like any other professional, I am governed by a system of ethics. I am also a qualified and registered electrician, again, with a standard of ethics.
Trusting yourself, your personal life, even your liberty, to people without ethics is something that, still leaves me gasping for breath.
These people have no governing body.
This is kinda obvious really. To suggest that someone regaling themselves with a degree would even want to be associated with someone armed with a certificate in concealing and therapy, from the upstairs college of Peckham, is unlikely.
What all his amounts to is that you are putting yourselves, your personal life, into the hands of people whose motivations can and frequently are, little more than their own egos and opinions. Even political and religious opinions.
I really feel very sad for people who are so desperate and in need of consolation, that they would, in essence, put themselves into the ministrations of the first person you meet on a street corner claiming to be a friend for a fee'.
It is very gratifying that some have had positive experiences. It is tragic, to say the least, that some have not. There is a member here, who over a number of posts, has described the complete breakdown in the child/parent relationship. Yet their therapist reported back the the mother, details of an interview, which were made in private.
Now if that therapist had an ounce of honesty, they would have simply recorded the entire interview, added on a pile of speculation and fabrication and broadcast it to create maximum humiliation. That therapist is a disgrace, a disgrace to humanity.
Yet, that is not an isolated example, as these pages have show.
It would be astonishing if every therapist was so utterly evil and psychopathic. That some have reported positive experiences is not in the least surprising. A random selection of people will always bring up a few who fit a criteria. But how many people, would ask a person, at random, in a crowd to fix the breaks on their car?
I have heard, here and elsewhere, claims, mostly by Americans, that their state has governing standards!
Would those be the same governing standards that exist in Texas, where the legislature passed a bill, but someone 'accidental' inserted the word 'not'? Or the standards that exist in the UK where Tony Blair lied to Parliament leading to the deaths of a million people?
How exactly are these local standards administered? A check on qualifications? Qualifications that have no standards?
Supervision? Buy whom? What are the qualifications of the supervisors?
Regulations that say you must be nice? Regulations that say you may not repeat, (except in certain circumstances) 'Well, you see, it's like this, but you can't repeat this, I'm building a bomb'.
I'm sorry, but I will repeat the assertion made many times on these pages.
Give only the information that is necessary.
Stick to the point. Don't trust any therapist, no matter what qualifications they claim, with anything that you don't want repeated.
Keep your mind on the subject in hand and keep their attention on the same.
Your only need to get past this gate so you can see the real professionals.
And good luck.
don't ever change your story. it's yours and only you will know who you are. if you must change your story to get hormones then you either need to soul-search or you need to get a new therapist.
if you're determined enough to change your narrative, then likely its the latter.
I disagree with just about everything that Spacial has said as it isn't true, but I will say check that you do have a qualified therapist, that they do belong to a governing body with a published code of ethics and practice (In the U.K this is BACP) That way if your confidentiality is broken then you can lodge a complaint and have them struck off, and this does happen. The biggest problem with the U.K is there is no compulsory standard so anyone can set up as a therapist with little to no comeback, this however is not true with the NHS and again your therapist does have to be well qualified and not six weeks from a comic or whatever.
However, If you do feel that your therapist is gatekeeping, ask for another one, I would be extremely worried about a therapist who tried to influence the choices that I made regarding my life, that is not their job, you are quite within your rights to do this.
I just noticed you gave me a neggie rep. ;D
Sorry if I rattled you somewhat.
But I really do know what I'm talking about, even if I sometimes comes across as a bit of an old fool. ???
http://www.cpcab.co.uk/ (http://www.cpcab.co.uk/)
http://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/ (http://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/)
http://www.bacp.co.uk/ (http://www.bacp.co.uk/)
http://www.bps.org.uk/ (http://www.bps.org.uk/)
Huggs.
Really depends where you are from too. Here in Alberta we have a gatekeeper - he is reffered to as the gatekeeper. He is the only one that can legally sign off on surgeries, and is the only specialist when it comes to GID. Sure there are psychologists that deal with it - but all you need to do to practice pyschology here is have a Bachelors degree and be supervised by someone with a Masters, or have a Masters degree and youre free, and they can't sign off for surgeries or anything. Most people are uniwlling to deal with GID anyways, so our specialist is often the one who writes HRT referals anyways. It's where I had to go for mine. And since we need two psychs agreeing on diagnosis and such, he just gets one of the psychs on duty at the hospital to sit in on his appointments.
But then again, he's pretty open, most people get their HRT in the end. Even if it takes a while.
Spacial, I fail to see how linking to the organisations who do ensure that practitioners are qualified and working to a set of ethics and standards proves that you know what you are talking about, if anything it suggests the opposite.
You will see from the CPCAB website that it takes 5 years to qualify as an independent practitioner. Not 6 weeks. And seeing as I have done four of those years with them, I know exactly what it entails.
Just suggesting that someone's qualifications are meaningless because they are not nursing is a little childish. I know good and bad psychotherapists, I know good and bad nurses but I wouldn't dismiss a whole profession because of it.
That's really nice Millie. I honestly wish you well in your chosen career.
But if you will, I didn't suggest and never would, that non nursing qualifications are meaningless. I said that qualifications without standards are meaningless.
I'm sure you and others in your particular group will all be an absolute credit to community welfare.
Quote from: MillieB on December 30, 2010, 10:07:05 AM
I disagree with just about everything that Spacial has said as it isn't true
That depends. At least in some of the States, it is actually quite easy to set up your own psychology practice. In some areas, you only need a license.
I agree with Spacial. One should be checking the background experience, degrees, and general knowledge of psychologists. It is very easy to call oneself a psychologist, and even to set up a psychology practice, without really knowing much about how to deal with people.
This isn't to say that psychology is bad. I am just saying that "psychologist" is a very poorly defined title in some areas of the world. Just because someone is called a psychologist doesn't mean you will strike gold. You might end up with a lump of lead.
Which is exactly what I said! And is a far cry from 'these people have no ethics' 'they will break your confidentiality' etc. It's a wise precaution to check the credentials of anyone that you need to trust whether that is a therapist or a plumber.
I think that it is also time to separate 'psychologist' from 'psychotherapist' as they are very different things particulaly within the world of gender therapy. You will need a psychologists report for referal purposes and to an extent, I think that this is wrong and where the whole 'gatekeeping' issue comes into play, I for one do not believe that we should need to have the go ahead from some 'expert' to be who we are. Once serious mental health issues that may affect your judgemnt are ruled out then I don't really see any need for their involvement and it becomes a medical issue. A psychotherapist will just help you to navigate the emotional minefield that is transition and help you to clarify your own feelings so that you can move forward with confidence, it is not their job to judge you or be a gatekeeper in any sense.
California requires a Master's Degree in the field (family psychology for a family psychologist, etc) a criminal background check and a lot more.
Quote from: Alex201 on December 29, 2010, 12:16:26 PM
This forces some of us (like me) to edit our narratves just to get horomones.
I have to ask; have you actually had any experiences with gatekeepers?
California also has informed consent, so you don't need to do any of that.
Quote from: MillieB on December 30, 2010, 08:22:19 PM
I think that it is also time to separate 'psychologist' from 'psychotherapist' as they are very different things particulaly within the world of gender therapy.
Psychotherapy is psychological treatment/counseling (i.e., usually some form of talk therapy) and can be practiced by a psychologist, a social worker, an MFT, even a psychiatrist. In the U.S., a psychologist is not the only one who can write referral letters for people.
even a psychiatrist
Ummm, a psychiatrist far outranks a psychologist, as they are licensed Medical Doctors, and can write scripts.
Yeah, I was basing my comment very much on the NHS system which is one referal from a Doctored psychologist and the other from a mental health professional (who can be a psychotherapist) with a least a masters degree and two years experience of working with transsexual people.
But again people are ignoring the point that I was annoyed about, that we are all idiot 'hired friends' with no ethics morals, experience or qualifications and that there is no oversight standards or codes of practice to govern this which isn't true at all. You have to have a decent level of training and experience before the NHS will even give you an interview and better credentials still if you want to be in private practice and have membership to one of the reputable governing bodies.
The problem is that as has been said, there isn't a set standard that applies internationaly and although there has been talk of this for years, or even a set British standard, the powers that be haven't made this happen. I for one would like to get rid of the charlatans from the profession as has been shown here it gives the ill informed license to ridicule something that helps a lot of people, and would make it easier for people to feel confident that the person sat in front of them has the required skills to help them. It might also dispell the idea that people trained in other disciplines (nursing/social work) could possibly have the required knowlege to practice psychotherapy in an effective manner.
Most of these things will have modules where listening skills are taught, but it is not the same thing, it can't possibly be as there simply isn't the time to incorporate the more in depth elements and the practical side of the training. I'm trained to dispense medications but I imagine that Spacial would get upset if I claimed that made me a nurse.
I'm not claiming that Psychotherapists are the worlds biggest genii or even that they are all particulaly great, as I have said, there is good and bad in every profession and I usualy don't have any problem with people venting about a hopeless cousellor as some really are. But when I see phrases like 'psychopatic and evil' and 'disgrace to humanity' and then I think that people might actualy beleive what has been said, I think that it borders on abuse.
there isn't a set standard that applies internationally
I don't think there are any international medical standards for anything, other than what the UN might mandate for their people and the drugs they distribute. Doubt there would ever be. National standards are about as much as you can hope for.
I think that a lot of it comes under WHO control now, although I'm not 100%
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2010, 09:28:09 PM
Ummm, a psychiatrist far outranks a psychologist, as they are licensed Medical Doctors, and can write scripts.
This is true. Psychiatry is a medical field. It is much more regulated than psychology.
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2010, 09:28:09 PM
even a psychiatrist
Ummm, a psychiatrist far outranks a psychologist, as they are licensed Medical Doctors, and can write scripts.
I mainly meant that psychiatrists don't necessarily do talk therapy. Sorry if I was unclear.
does the Wiki, or TS roadmap, or some other site, have an up to date list of informed consent providers?
I'm betting there's isn't one close to the Memphis area but I'd love to find out i was wrong.
Quote from: MillieB on December 30, 2010, 02:12:38 PM
Spacial, I fail to see how linking to the organisations who do ensure that practitioners are qualified and working to a set of ethics and standards proves that you know what you are talking about, if anything it suggests the opposite.
You will see from the CPCAB website that it takes 5 years to qualify as an independent practitioner. Not 6 weeks. And seeing as I have done four of those years with them, I know exactly what it entails.
Just suggesting that someone's qualifications are meaningless because they are not nursing is a little childish. I know good and bad psychotherapists, I know good and bad nurses but I wouldn't dismiss a whole profession because of it.
I agree.
There is Informed Consent on Susan's Wiki (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Informed_consent).
It lists some of the big informed consent institutions.
In my country, we don't follow the WPATH. And there are no standards, which means that every time our gender therapists say "oh, but according to the standards/rules/whatever, I have to do this...", they're lying.
In my country, for a person to change their legal gender (that M or F in the passport and on the ID and in the social security number), they have to agree to be castrated and to get SRS. This means that a trans man who wants to be legally a man MUST have a hysterectomy AND a phallo/meta, regardless of wether his downstairs area bothers him or not.
In my country, one of the steps of getting the diagnosis transsexualism (that coveted key to acquiring surgery, hormones and name change) is doing a Rorschach test. You know, that test they stopped using in the 50's?
Now, where do I live? What is this barbaric, bizarre country? Is it Saudi Arabia? No, it's Sweden. 21st century Sweden.
Quote from: MillieB on December 30, 2010, 08:22:19 PM
Which is exactly what I said! And is a far cry from 'these people have no ethics' 'they will break your confidentiality' etc.
With respect, I think you're missing the point.
There are, undoubtedly, many of these people, (using the generic term therapist), who are compassionate, caring and seek to help. More importantly, unaffected by their own insecurities.
There are, equally, many professional oganisations which genuinely seek to ensure proper filtering, training, supervision and enforcement.
But there is no established international, or even national consensus of what any of this means.
A Degree in medicine, for example, will follow a broadly predictable path. There is general agreement on how the body works. But there are no established principals on how the human mind
works. Indeeed there are many points of view that are in direct contradiction with others. So two people can hold degrees of equal value, yet have entirely contradictory opinions. Hence,
the equal value is no value at all.
Psychology, at any level, is a belief system. A set of beliefs and principals upon which, people seek to rationalise their own positions in relation to those seeking support. The
application of science is a deliberate red herring to give the impression of scientific credability to what is farcical. Similar tactics are used, though to lesser effect, by the TM people
and Scientology. The science doesn't make these credable. It just seems to.
The last 40 years, has seen an explosion in the numbers of therapists and an even greater explosion in the numbers of new and increasingly exotic conditions, almost all with snappy titles
using 3 letters. SAD (Several definations), MAD, ->-bleeped-<-, BDD and so on. One of the most ridiculous of course is the ODD. It describes young boys who disobey parents and teachers!!
On threads on this forum and many others, there are successive posts with people exchanging these labels like football cards. Yet, for the most part, they are utterly meaningless and serve
the egos, not to mention the incomes of the therapists, more than the client.
Since there are so many different opinions being made by these people, it's possible to choose the therapist who best suits the objective.
The psychologist who has been selected to rewrite the DSM, for example, seems to have views, which owe more to Republican politics than to those of other, equally qualificed psychologists. Not to mention, the welfare of Americans.
So, here is the problem of ethics. These people are not governed by a system of general principals, they are governed by the objectives of those that pay them. Little can be done by those
who may already be in a delicate emotional state, finding their life destroyed by a therapistwho chooses to repeat what has been said in confidence.
Such a therapist is not professional at all. Other therapists will claim that they are not like this, of course. But that is scant reassurance to the rest of us, since we cannot know what
any of these people may do. The whole industry is pot luck.
In their drive to create work for themselves, these people are continually finding morbid diagnoses for what are otherwise natural aspects of life. The human experience is being vitiated
along with liberty and normality. Death is now an illness. The greiving process is compulsary.
The drive for this is the need, by Drs to have a filter system, to shield them from the many numbers of otherwise healthy people, so that they can concenrate upon the sick. We use to call
this triage. We've previously had receptionists, junior Drs, nurses. But therapists have taken this to a whole new level, creating for themselves, a money earning job backed by meaningless
qualifications.
In any other area, this would be called beurocracy, the creation, by a minion, of work, self importance and promotion.
For us, the approach to these people should be a careful limitation of what we say and concentration on the facts. For society, the problems would seem to be a bit more serious.
Quote from: MillieB on December 30, 2010, 09:45:44 PM
I'm trained to dispense medications but I imagine that Spacial would get upset if I claimed that made me a nurse.
Not really. That would be like saying someone trained to change the oil on your car is a car mechanic.
It's quite clear that me challenging you just causes you to talk more rubbish, so I won't bother but a lot of trans people find therapy useful as do people in general. So you are entitled to your largely irrelevent arrogant, paranoid opinions. I'll just get on with helping those who want my help, I have never dragged anyone in from the street.
Quote from: MillieB on December 31, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
so I won't bother but a lot of trans people find therapy useful as do people in general.
I'm very pleased we can agree on this point.
It's unfortunate that we can't discuss others without hurt feelings. I'm sure there are many constructive points we could build upon. But none can be achieved when personal feeling get in the way.
Take care lovely Millie and I wish you a happy and succesful New Year,
You can find a therapist or a good bartender, pretty much the same. Both ruin about as many lives as they help.
Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2010, 01:15:16 PM
You can find a therapist or a good bartender, pretty much the same. Both ruin about as many lives as they help.
I kind of agree with this and I don't think that I would have sought a therapist if the whole going to see the bartender every night/afternoon/morning thing hadn't gone so horribly wrong. :laugh:
In the states you can't call yourself a Psychologist unless you have at least a master's degree.
Nor can you call yourself a licensed clinical social worker (Which is what I'm moving toward at glacial speed).
I don't *believe* you can call yourself a therapist either.
You can actually call yourself a counselor and set up shop in many states. I'm under the impression that the majority of people who do this are Christian counselors. Not to say that even the majority of Christian counselors are unlicensed. I have no data.
But what I would say is that a doctor's going to probably ignore any note from an uncertified therapist. So make sure they have at least a master's in psychology, counseling, or clinical social work, otherwise you're wasting your time/money.
As to why the system requires this in most places...the hormones and drugs cause irreversible changes. The idea is to try and make sure the person asking for the pills/shots/surgery is sane enough to be making a decision they're going to remain happy with, and realistically assess the risks.
Alex, where did you get the term 'gatekeeper' from?
Quote from: Renate on December 31, 2010, 06:52:10 AM
There is Informed Consent on Susan's Wiki (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Informed_consent).
It lists some of the big informed consent institutions.
S'what I figured. Nothing listed closer than Chicago - which ain't close at all.
Thanks for the link though