Lol
Partly a joke, and partly not. Being a white guy has its minuses in a way being a white girl does not. There's certain places I can't go anymore without being a target for robbery etc, where I had no problem as a girl. People assume things about me they didn't before. Also I'm treated as being suspicious where I had no problems before. People trusted me before. Now as a clean looking white guy, I'm suddenly a different species. Anybody else had this?
Edit: And I know that going from African American or Hispanic female or white male to female (as Vexing mentioned), or other ethnicities must present it's own challenges as well. And I'd be interested in hearing that side as well.
Yes, specifically with children.
I'll elaborate; people have no problems with me being around children as a woman, but as a white dude, I was automatically under suspicion of being some kind of creepy pedo guy if I showed any interest in kids.
I will comment on the robbery target thing though - while I was probably more likely to be knocked over for my wallet as a white dude, my chances of being raped were virtually nil. Some days I'd like those odds back :-\
"Y'all don't know what it's like - being male, middle-class and white."
People make assumptions about my upbringing and advantages and the life I've led, but so far so good.
One thing I like about living authentically: women no longer thrust their babies in my face, asking me if I want to hold the little precious darlings.
Where can't you go and not be targeted for robbery?
Quote from: Arch on December 29, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
One thing I like about living authentically: women no longer thrust their babies in my face, asking me if I want to hold the little precious darlings.
I've had the exact opposite problem. I was born male. I'm really good with kids, and I like to teach them things. But people guard their kids from me like I was some pedophile.
I'll be glad when I have enough feminine features that I can move beyond this nonsense. It's really annoying wanting to take part in kid's lives when their parents do everything they can to keep you away from them. This usually ends up with the kid's crying and wailing because they didn't finish learning the game we were making up.
There is one very good reason that I love kids. When adults get mixed gender signals, their usual response is to avoid me at all costs. When kids get mixed gender signals, their first response is to ask me why I walk/sit/behave like a girl.
I can't stand adults. They are so close-minded. If I had known the grownup world was like this, I think I would have just stayed in high school forever.
Mssrs Arch and Nero:
You must now leave Susans at once.
DO NOT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!
We of course all know that White Males are the source of all that is pure evil in this world.
I could go on, but will allow you some dignity.
Which is more than Whitey has ever done for the "real" people of the World.
Does either one of you live in the "South"? Did you recently celebrate Christmas?
You need not answer, if that would serve to incriminate you further.
The only places I have problems at (I.E. When I am watched closely) are the ones that sell breakables....
*turns to leave room and runs into wall*
LMAO
I'm half asian/white and all i can say is...white people have it really bad with reversed racism nowadays. i feel sorry for ya'll.
I can't stand kids, dunno how to deal with em, I'm looking forward to not being bothered by them again.
Its especially annoying in family situations where I get looked at like I should care for the little bastards, or even reproduce. I'm sorry but like father like son,at least I'm smart enough not to raise a kid and be another absent father.
Quote from: Forum Admin on December 29, 2010, 10:39:05 PM
There's certain places I can't go anymore without being a target for robbery etc, where I had no problem as a girl.
Can you give some examples please? I can't imagine a single place where I'm safer as a girl... (I don't count being around kids as dangerous, well most of those i know aren't, lol :laugh: )
This one....very true! I've always been drawn to babies, I think they are just SOOO CUTE! One time when it was a reality check for me was when I was at Maurices'. There was just the most adorable baby and I had to say something, commented to the mother on how cute I thought her child was and the mamma just suddenly went into protect mode or something! I could just feel the tension she was feeling...I must have made her very uncomfortable commenting on her child. Either that or she was just wondering why the hell there was a guy in Maurices'.
I've never been eyeballed for theft or something like that, but show any sign of affection or.....OH NO! crying in public and I immediately get the most odd looks I have ever seen.
(well...I don't think any of that has to do with being white, sorry! :embarrassed:)
Quote from: KillBelle on December 30, 2010, 02:58:17 AM
white people have it really bad with reversed racism nowadays.
Like hell we do. White privilege is alive and kicking like a mule.
BTW, what part of Asia is your heritage from?
Quote from: Mich'elle on December 30, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
We of course all know that White Males are the source of all that is pure evil in this world.
Yeah, so? >:-)
When my father was applying for jobs in local government around thirty-five years ago, he got the top score on the test but was third in line for consideration. When he asked why, he was told that they had to hire minorities and women before they could hire him. Don't know if they were just messing with him, but that's apparently what he was told. My dad is scrupulously honest, so I'm quite sure he wasn't making it all up.
But that was quite a long time ago.
I stil ahve th eproblem of people thrusting babies at me. People seem to think it's fun and cute to make me squirm. And girls are apparently 'attracted' to me at bars because I look safe (like I'm going to come stand by your for a while cuz there is a creeper over there). And some other random dude walks up to me and says, I can tell you've never been drunk in your life (true). I donno, but as a male.. apparently people percieve me as some kind of.. super safe guy, even complete strangers.
Tad, judging by your avatar, I'd say that people are reacting to your All-American look. If you want to discourage people, you might want to go for the grunge look or adopt a squint.
Quote from: VeryGnawty on December 29, 2010, 11:51:49 PM
There is one very good reason that I love kids. When adults get mixed gender signals, their usual response is to avoid me at all costs. When kids get mixed gender signals, their first response is to ask me why I walk/sit/behave like a girl.
True.
Quote from: Vexing on December 30, 2010, 05:25:48 AM
Like hell we do. White privilege is alive and kicking like a mule.
BTW, what part of Asia is your heritage from?
I am vietnamese =P
Yes i know i know...it's not as "cool" as being korean or japanese but i wont have it any other way!
Quote from: KillBelle on December 30, 2010, 03:48:17 PM
I am vietnamese =P
Yes i know i know...it's not as "cool" as being korean or japanese but i wont have it any other way!
I used to work with some Vietnamese folk. Very friendly, lots of hugs, and kept trying to teach me their language. I tried, but failed miserably!
Quote from: Arch on December 29, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
One thing I like about living authentically: women no longer thrust their babies in my face, asking me if I want to hold the little precious darlings.
I'm always tempted to say, "Oooohhh! Delicious Baby! Thank-you!"
Quote from: glendagladwitch on December 30, 2010, 06:24:08 PM
I'm always tempted to say, "Oooohhh! Delicious Baby! Thank-you!"
I hold them out at arm's length and say "So...you're a baby then. How's that working out for you?"
I try and pawn them off as soon as possible and am tempted to punch them when they start crying. I was never meant to look after/be around kids/rais small children.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on December 30, 2010, 06:24:08 PM
I'm always tempted to say, "Oooohhh! Delicious Baby! Thank-you!"
LOL. I was always wanting to say, "No, thank you, I just ate."
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Sick. :(
Quote from: Tad on December 30, 2010, 12:02:14 PM
I stil ahve th eproblem of people thrusting babies at me. People seem to think it's fun and cute to make me squirm. And girls are apparently 'attracted' to me at bars because I look safe (like I'm going to come stand by your for a while cuz there is a creeper over there). And some other random dude walks up to me and says, I can tell you've never been drunk in your life (true). I donno, but as a male.. apparently people percieve me as some kind of.. super safe guy, even complete strangers.
Maybe it's just cuz you're cute lol.
Quote from: Arch on December 29, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
One thing I like about living authentically: women no longer thrust their babies in my face, asking me if I want to hold the little precious darlings.
I would love for this to happen. People always try to get me to hold their babies or stare at them in the hospital, or talk to them about how great babies and kids are. Babies creep me out, and kids drive me mad, so, no thanks.
Anyhow, I was just saying that being male hasn't limited me at all. If anything, i'm suddenly even more trusted then when i was percieved as female. It'sodd.
Quote from: Tad on December 30, 2010, 11:21:02 PM
Anyhow, I was just saying that being male hasn't limited me at all. If anything, i'm suddenly even more trusted then when i was percieved as female. It'sodd.
This is 'male privilege' embodied. Specifically
white male privilege.
Quote from: Arch on December 30, 2010, 11:43:02 AM
When my father was applying for jobs in local government around thirty-five years ago, he got the top score on the test but was third in line for consideration. When he asked why, he was told that they had to hire minorities and women before they could hire him. Don't know if they were just messing with him, but that's apparently what he was told. My dad is scrupulously honest, so I'm quite sure he wasn't making it all up.
But that was quite a long time ago.
We have the same policy in Australia. I'm not sure what the percentage is, but most businesses and government departments abide by the EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity) wherever possible.
I knew a guy who complained about the same treatment when he didn't get the job (I don't believe a responsible CEO would give such a reason unless they are prejudice themselves and starting trouble) , yet he also complains about single mothers and minorities/refugees on the dole. ::)
Hermione, the story does have a happy ending. My father's name finally came up and he got the job. It took something like a year, though. He worked in the field for years and was eventually promoted to supervisor and then retired. It was his second career, so I guess he is pretty comfortable now with two pensions. That might well be the only time his being a white male worked against him.
Yeah, being a white male was seriously sucky...especially the male privilege thing, i so did not ask for them or feel that they were my due...i spent pretty much all my life from the age of 12 trying to negate that privilege.
Quote from: Tad on December 30, 2010, 11:21:02 PM
Anyhow, I was just saying that being male hasn't limited me at all. If anything, i'm suddenly even more trusted then when i was percieved as female. It'sodd.
That's because you are adorable, who WOULDNT trust you with their baby? =]
Quote from: KillBelle on December 31, 2010, 04:31:57 PM
That's because you are adorable, who WOULDNT trust you with their baby? =]
;D
They really shouldn't, it's a large act of self control not to punt them away. Though I admint I've grown fond over my neice and two nephews as long as I don't have to deal with diapers, crying, boogers, spit up, vomit, or anything else related to babie grossness.
I love babies...they make me so happy. The other day one of the girls from my college sorority just had a baby, and we all gathered around the crib and cootchie coo!!!
Makes me wanna die <3
The only reason I am so resistant to transition fully (m2f) is because it can be super awesome being a white dude. My therapist has said a few times "you sure don't take it for granted." Despite gid from earliest memories my life so far has been full of lucky and great things creatively and in business. The boys club is alive and well in corporate America and while I'm on the creative side and not fratty, I get to throw in with big wigs and seen the money flow around in a very nepotistic way. A woman and especially a late transitioning (I'm 36) trans-woman would have a hard time getting some of the privilege I've been given.
I'm expressive so I've never had the baby problem. It might be more personality than gender. I know plenty of CIS women who people don't give babies to. I baby-sat all through my teen years and people give me their baby all the time...if they don't, I take them...I love babies. Aside from the coochie-coo stuff I always need to see what they weigh, like Indiana Jones messing around with the bag of sand.
So if you're transitioning TO a white dude...go for the gold!
I've definitely noticed parents with a less than friendly look when I even wave at the kid who's waving at me or say hi back to the kid who has said hi to me 500 times and I feel guilty ignoring them any longer. I've also noticed women giving me more room on the sidewalk when I walk by them. (At first that made me feel fat. Like seriously, am I that fat that I need a huge amount of room?) Men seem to talk to me more straight forward the older I get I've noticed too which is an upside.
Really it's hard for me to notice huge differences because I have passed for over 4 years now and have a crappy memory to remember before then.
Quote from: Andrew Scott on January 01, 2011, 02:09:55 AM
I've definitely noticed parents with a less than friendly look when I even wave at the kid who's waving at me or say hi back to the kid who has said hi to me 500 times and I feel guilty ignoring them any longer. I've also noticed women giving me more room on the sidewalk when I walk by them. (At first that made me feel fat. Like seriously, am I that fat that I need a huge amount of room?) Men seem to talk to me more straight forward the older I get I've noticed too which is an upside.
Really it's hard for me to notice huge differences because I have passed for over 4 years now and have a crappy memory to remember before then.
Yeah the kid thing is weird and hard to get used to. I just helped a lost girl in a supermarket find potatoes and then realized how that looked. It really sucks that a few freaks have given all men a bad name. Most of us are out to protect not harm.
QuoteYes i know i know...it's not as "cool" as being korean or japanese
Haha, KPride!~ jk, jk
Well on the weirdness of gender / ethnic advantages / disadvantages. Being perceived as an Asian (uber obviously Asian at that) woman, I was sexually harassed often, and in two cases had to physically defend myself. I've even met a potential employees, who tried to hint at how I should act by because of my ethnic background saying things like "well, I know you'll be a hard worker, it's in your blood," and this one really made me sick "I must be intimidating, have you ever worked for such an influential man before?" WTF? He then proceeded to tell me about how he had black belts in nearly every martial arts, and tried to get me to feel a lump on his head where he got hit fighting off "five gangsters." The guy was a gallery owner, and wanted to be some pimp or something, (a friend later told me he only ever employs thin, young, pretty Asian girls for that job.) Often people will assume I'm physically weak, or soft-spoken and will make a big deal of how I don't act like they think I would.
As an Asian guy. Well, I've been attacked less, but I still get a lot of the stereotype crap. A lot of the old "yellow peril" attitudes are still pretty prevalent, and I've definitely noticed people expect that they can kinda screw you over because you don't have a spine being Asian.
More than anything, the weird part for me about being Asian is that people will stereotype you to your face and then expect you to be grateful because it's a "good stereotype" or be really racist about other minorities and expect you to go along because once again you're "one of the good ones." People make me sick.
Awww Joseph, well, i do get what you mean. I am half and people dont always recognize me for being asian (some people think i am full white and some people think i am half), but once they know that i am asian...they start to treat me differently.
Like i would be at a club somewhere and a guy would come up and talk to me, they are usually white men that approach me and try to tell me how they loooooove asian girls because they are so "nice" and so "dainty" and so "fragile" and so "quiet". I am sitting there thinking, well i'll be damned because i am none of that.
They just think that asian women are nothing but "sucky sucky 5 dollah" types and it's just so degrading. They tend to forget that i am an AMERICAN and i don't put up with that type of sexual stereotyping. But then again Asian men also objectify me in these ways so i guess i can't really say much about that =\
All kids stare at me. They look into my eyes. Perhaps this is the reason - I have dark eye brows naturally arched (and now trimmed since I live as a girl) and lots of long eye lashes. My mom tells me that I look the same now as I did when I was a baby, just a little grown up that's all, and that kids are somehow relating to me better than they relate to other adults.
I see kids in the stollers on the sidewalk straining to look at me even after I have passed them. Kids with their moms or dads at grocery stores turn and bend and strain to look at me until they can no longer see me. At doctors' waiting rooms, I see kids looking at me all the time until one of us is called in.
When I lived as male, some parents used to become very self-conscious with their kids staring at me like this. They would try to talk with their kids to make them do something else.
However, when parents see me as female, they seem to feel a lot more free. One woman waiting at a doctor's office asked me if I am a mom, and she pointed out that her kid and two other kids in the waiting room were staring at me. When I was at a grocery store several months ago, one woman who was standing nearby came up to me to tell me that her little kid standing in the grocery cart was trying to say hi to me. The kid screamed and laughed when I looked at him/her. I have no idea what's up with these kids.
The biggest affirmation that I have had as female so far was in a restroom of my office building -
One woman (never seen her before ... could be the wife of someone working there) was there with her baby. After changing her baby's diapers, she asked me if I could look after her baby for a few minutes while she went into one of the stalls. It was not much work as all the baby did was to stare at me and talk some gibberish. However, it felt good to know that people trust me around their kids to leave one with me even if for only a minute. This is something I doubt they would have done if they saw me as male.
About how much it sucks to be a white guy, I would agree there are positives and negatives, with the negatives increasing by the day but still significantly more positive than being certain other demographic groups.
It also depends on what you value. For example, when I was seen as a guy at work, my opinions were respected, but I was made to do an unimaginable amount of work. Now that I am seen as a pretty woman at work, most people do not give any significance to what I have to say, but people do not dump their work on to me and they let me go home before it gets dark (and I get paid more than I used to when I worked as male, but that's probably just because I am more experienced in my field now). Well, I wish I could have had both - more respect for my opinions and more leniency with workload. :)
Now about stereotyping ... I notice that Asian, East Indian, Hispanic and African men treat me worse as a woman than they used to as male. As male, none of them ever bothered me. As female, Asian and East Indian men seem to be intimidated by me. When I get assertive about something at work, they feel threatened. I notice that Hispanic and African men seem to objectify me. That is utterly disrespectful and degrading. There are exceptions ... so please pardon my generalization here.
Quote from: marissak on January 01, 2011, 03:43:35 AM
Now about stereotyping ... I notice that Asian, East Indian, Hispanic and African men treat me worse as a woman than they used to as male. As male, none of them ever bothered me. As female, Asian and East Indian men seem to be intimidated by me. When I get assertive about something at work, they feel threatened. I notice that Hispanic and African men seem to objectify me. That is utterly disrespectful and degrading. There are exceptions ... so please pardon my generalization here.
I can't speak for everyone of every minority, and trust me when I say this is not an excuse or justification of any kind, just a possible explanation. The relationship that America, actually not just America but colonized worlds all around, have a weird relationship with color and gender. The 'colored' woman is objectified and acceptable exotic eye candy, her body an be just as easily dominated and rightly snatched away from her home as the land she and her people live on. The white woman on the other hand is a symbol of that which must be protected from the 'colored' men, whether they are they are savages or quiet seducers. She is not only a woman as the "goddess" the perfect woman, she is also in America, used as the symbol of the land which is being 'raped' by ethnic men from all over the world. So in today's day and age when we are all supposed to be "equal" yet are so very far from it, the differences between men of different races are already strained and then you add the gender factor. The response is a response from decades of coding and constraints that are now subconscious and they'd be better men if they could control themselves past that, but there you have it.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 01, 2011, 03:37:11 AM
Awww Joseph, well, i do get what you mean. I am half and people dont always recognize me for being asian (some people think i am full white and some people think i am half), but once they know that i am asian...they start to treat me differently.
I notice that happens to a lot of my half-Asian friends. It's so weird, they are treated American until one day "oh, you're half Japanese. Wow, did you know I love all this Japanese stuff, let me talk to you about everything Japanese, i need your opinion on everything Asian now." I say Japanese because all my half Asian friends are at least part Japanese... - -;;; how did that happen? You know, the funniest thing is that Asian men never looked at me with those stereotypes. ??? Maybe because they could immediately tell I don't fit them? Maybe this is why I've never had an Asian boyfriend.
Quote from: JosephKT on January 01, 2011, 04:10:41 AM
The response is a response from decades of coding and constraints that are now subconscious and they'd be better men if they could control themselves past that, but there you have it.
I completely agree with your observation. In fact, you said it better than I could have. :)