So I have been married to the same beautiful woman for 29 years, come this January. We have three wonderful grown daughters together. I am out to everyone and I am full time. Life is in my opinion, "Great". Although there is the occasional bump in the road ,nothing too distracting. Our three daughters are all different in how they are dealing with me being trans. The oldest one , "welcomes the diversity". The second, is having a hard time with it although she flip flops from time to time. The youngest is just AMAZING !!
So over the last couple months we haven't really talked about nor have we had to deal with the issue of how to introduce me and what to call me. I mean what title should be given me in the relationship. There has been jokes about "my two moms" but nothing serious. The issue isn't so much with family and close friends. Most everyone calls me Roxy all the time. Last night my daughter had friends over . All but one knew me before transition. I pass, I think fairly well, so I don't think my history need be discussed. It's OK that they introduce me as Roxy, but Roxy what? Roxy, my moms friend? Roxy the friend of the family? Roxy my mom significant other? Roxy my mom's partner? Or Roxy my other mom?
We live in a small town in Oregon. If we present our selves as "gay" I think it is only a matter of time till we run into some haters. Which doesn't bother me too much, but if I can avoid then , I will. Correct me if I am wrong but, I think most gay couples (depending on company) introduce their significant others as "their friend", most times. I think I am OK with that.
Patty has wore the crown of " mom" for so long and she has done it so well I am not about to infringe on her status. Besides the crown won't fit me, my heads too big, hehehe.
:D
Oh by the way, I got my ears pierced, yesterday !! I love life !!!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi812.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz47%2Fpscore%2Fearspierced.jpg&hash=7149b6e0062233acf4fddb2325a3b470ec1d64e6)
HUGS & LOVE, Roxy
You are a cutie Princess Roxy.
I love you.
Hugs & Big wet kisses.
Patty
Quote from: Erocse on January 05, 2011, 09:43:17 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but, I think most gay couples (depending on company) introduce their significant others as "their friend", most times. I think I am OK with that.
Absolutely not Alison is my PARTNER and I can get very very stroppy indeed with anyone who persistently wants to relegate her to being just my "friend". After all we have a legal relationship (she is my civil partner) and we have survived 23 years together so I think she is entitled to that recognition and she feel exactly the same about me.
My own experience is that while 20 years or more ago
some single sex couples used to try to hide their relationships and therefore did accept the "friend" label, these days almost
ALL of us, at least in the UK where we have legal single sex relationships, are becoming ever more tired with people who think they have the right to find our relationship in some way second class or embarrassing. So we reject absolutely the "friend" label and insist on partner or spouse as a basic minimum standard of recognition.
Children may indeed have the right to a bit more leeway on this point but if someone outside the immediate family has a problem with recognising the validity of our single sex relationship we personally simply won't deal with them. Period! No negotiation, no argument, no discussion.
So yes I think you do have that bit wrong, and indeed I think you should stand up for your right to be recognised as life partners. That's just my view of course and you must do what you think best. Whatever you decide I hope my input has at least been thought provoking and therefore helpful.
Ps - To be clear on the specific point of what your children should call you however - ( because I don't want someone accusing me of being insensitive to children) I think that is entirely up to them and you to decide what you all feel comfortable with.
I've kind of struggled with this same issue. My kids still both call me dad, though my son at times switches it to 'D'. When I write or text him I usually sign it as such. He's in H.S. With my daughter, it seems I vacillate between dad and Julie. She is 21.
Recently, I was at my daughter's house where she and her significant other were hosting a party. To his relatives, I was introduced as Julie by her and her BF. This was fine, though at one point at the dinner table they each started to let the 'D' word slip out. I took it in stride. :laugh:
My son's friends all know about me, and I have to say the funniest occurrence happened with my son's friend Bill. I've known Bill since he was at tall as my waist. I was also his soccer coach for a year or two. Bill's a great, smart kid with a good sense of humor. I hadn't seen him in a few years.
The story goes like this. Two years ago when the boys were 16, I was to pick up my son and Bill for a quick trip to Walmart for a video game. At this point, my son had just started seeing me again after almost a year hiatus while he was adjusting to my transition. I was thrilled that he had invited me not only to go out, but to have his friend join us.
As Bill and my son were getting into the back seat of my car, Bill let's this one out. "Hey, great to see you Mr. __________! How's it going? Bill and I commenced to kind of catch up on things and old times while my son sat in the car bewildered. Bill's nonchalant attitude helped to put my son at ease and showed him how this can be a non issue with people. Of course, while my son was scoping the games at Walmart, he excitedly called me dad a few times while showing me a game. That registered a few strange looks in the aisles!
So to your point Erocse, I guess with the name thing, I just let people kind of take it there themselves. Sure, when my kids were younger, I asked that they not call me dad while I was addressing the waitress or clerk, but otherwise I haven't put the reins on people.
Quote from: rejennyrated on January 05, 2011, 10:07:27 AM
Absolutely not Alison is my PARTNER and I can get very very stroppy indeed with anyone who persistently wants to relegate her to being just my "friend". After all we have a legal relationship (she is my civil partner) and we have survived 23 years together so I think she is entitled to that recognition and she feel exactly the same about me.
I would have to agree with Jenny here. Patty is your partner, as a heterosexual couple or a homosexual couple. Whether someone is a longterm boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, or wife that is the role that you play with each other. I prefer the term partner because really, that is what a relationship is, a partnership.
As I have mentioned before my Great-Aunt (pseudo grandmother) is a lesbian. She and her partner Joy have been together for 10+ years and have had a civil union for about 5 years. When I introduce them to new friends I usually say something along the lines of, "This is my Mum-Mum, Cook (short for Cookie, her childhood nickname) and my Mum-Mum Joy (or her partner Joy)". They use that term for each other as well. And again, along the same lines as Jenny, if someone has a bone to pick with that then I usually can't be bothered with them. They are my family, they didn't choose to fall in love with each other anymore than I have chosen to fall in love with my SO. (I think that you could say Patty is an exception to that with the love story she posted, you never had a shot of getting away Roxy! She seemed/seems to be bound and determined to make your love one that goes down in history as true. :) :) :) )
Quote from: rejennyrated on January 05, 2011, 10:07:27 AM
Children may indeed have the right to a bit more leeway on this point but if someone outside the immediate family has a problem with recognising the validity of our single sex relationship we personally simply won't deal with them. Period! No negotiation, no argument, no discussion.
Ps - To be clear on the specific point of what your children should call you however - ( because I don't want someone accusing me of being insensitive to children) I think that is entirely up to them and you to decide what you all feel comfortable with.
I would also have to agree with this. If your daughter's are comfortable introducing you as Roxy, my mother (I hate saying 'other mother', I feel mother is sufficient, unless further information is requested) than let them introduce you that way. Julie's way also works (shortening to D). It's all a matter of what you and your children are most comfortable with.
Just try not to force it, whatever you settle on should feel natural.
Hugs!
Jackie
I'm sorry if I missed this, but are you a biological parent of the girls? Or did you raise them? I'm unclear on the exact relationship, so I can't be of as much help as I'd like.
Not knowing that, 23 years deserves more than 'friend' in my book. I'd probably go with roommate before friend if you weren't really involved in their upbringing. If you were involved, I think you should be acknowledged.
ETA: You look freaking fantastic, btw :o
You are the VERY significant other! ;)
Quote from: LilDoberman on January 05, 2011, 10:51:28 AM
I'm sorry if I missed this, but are you a biological parent of the girls? Or did you raise them? I'm unclear on the exact relationship, so I can't be of as much help as I'd like.
Not knowing that, 23 years deserves more than 'friend' in my book. I'd probably go with roommate before friend if you weren't really involved in their upbringing. If you were involved, I think you should be acknowledged.
ETA: You look freaking fantastic, btw :o
Patty (Mrs Erocse) and I are "the girls" biological parents. I am mtf. Patty is a biological female and does not have a transgender bone in her body, except the supportive kind. :)
Hugs, Roxy
I am dealing with this same thing. My one daughter calls me ken on the phone or on paper , mom when it is just us, and dad or step dad when in public. It works and I think is just a matter of time until she chooses one. My oldest boy doesn't call, next boy just gives hugs and a small hi mom, oldest girl usually says mom but introduces me as ken. She is having trouble with pronouns but we work at the same place and that is an issue all on its own.
Quote from: Erocse on January 05, 2011, 12:06:54 PM
Patty (Mrs Erocse) and I are "the girls" biological parents.
In that case, you should ideally be called Mom. If you're willing to compromise on that to make the girls comfortable, more power to you :) I think that being called 'friend' negates your relationships which are very important. If these are just acquaintances of your girls, I don't think their needs/feelings/concerns should really factor in; if you, Patty and the girls can agree than everyone else can deal :)
Just my $.02 and of course, this isn't a perfect world :) Good luck!
If I were in your position. (and I really wish I was, on several levels), I would suggest Roxy.
A mom is kinda something specific.
Patty is the mom, to you as well :laugh:
They are grown up, so you know they respect you. You don't need to enforce it with title.
I understand that, in the US especially, there are many families where a parent is called by their name.
Funny, my wife and I were discussing this too.
We're currently thinking things like " Momma S", Or "Mother" and leaving the mommy and mom to her. We joke about calling me BIG MOMMA since she is 5'3 and I am 5'12 (LOL).
I would like the title of mom in there somewhere. And I would also refer to her as my spouse.
I don't want really hide that we are a lesbian couple. If we aren't welcomed in a certain area then I wouldn't want to live there. That's just me. ;)
I would like my kids to call me mum. But their other mum does not like that and tells them they can not call me that, which is pretty aweful they get caught in the middle.
So the compromise is they call me Nicki. I'm Nicki their other parent. In public most people refer to me as their mum and the kids don't say otherwise. Becky is still sorting it out in her head. She says "You can be mum, but I won't tell mum". I just keep asking them to call me Nicki.
I think it is ok if they introduce you as Roxy, but you could add to that "____ is my daughter" and avoid the whole thing of what title to call you.
I think it will be unavoidable Roxy that you look like a lesbian couple. I would refer to my partner as my love, my partner or my wife (if married). Perhaps in the right company my lover.
If I was in your position, I would refer to Patty as your spouse or partner.
As for the kids, I have been struggling with this too. The literature I have read is that you should let the kids decide what they are comfortable with. However, I wish I could remember who, but someone on Susan's once said they looked up "dad" or "father" in lots of different languages and found some versions that sounded feminine. The key is to pick a language not very common in the US or your geographic area. I myself always liked that idea.
My sons both said they would never call me mom because they already had one.
I replied "That's fine because Iwas am and always will be your dad."
And I will always be grandpa to my grandchildren.
Grandpa S____ is fine with me too.
And I don't care how many strange looks I get.
:)
Jillieann
Roxy, you are very beautiful woman and there is no doubt that you pass as a female you are. Your children, especially older ones should really decide how they feel about addressing you. If you leave it to them they will feel no pressure and embrace you just the same. I always thought that in my own scenario my son who is 17 now could never truly call me mom :-) but also if he chooses "Father" it shall be fine with me, of course I would be very sexy and hot father at that ;). I always thought that perhaps creative vocab in place of mom or dad would be also fun and cuddly such as famita, or dadeya or you can probably think of hundreds of those. What ever the case let them know that whatever they call you your love shall be just the same.
Further to melody's suggestion, I've found these equivalents to Father in a number of languages. I have xcluded those which sound too much like father, those which sound the same as other languages and those which don't use western script. Though the chinese term did sound nice.
Afrikaans Vader
Albanian Baba
Azerbiajani Ata
Basque Aita
Catalan Pare
Croatian Otac
Czech Otec
Danish Far
Estonian Isa
Filipino Ama
Galician Pai
Hungarian Apa
Icelandic Faoir
Indonesian Ayah
Irish Athair
Lithusnian Tevas
Macedonian Tatko
Maltese Missier
Polish Ojciec
Portuguese Pai
Romanian Tatal
Slovak Otec
Slovenian Oce
Vietnamese Cha
Welsh Tad
First things first. If you are seen as being lesbian, let them bring it on. It is Oregon and we are protected by the Oregon Constitution.
As what to call you, I suggest that your daughters decide that for themselves. As to what you are to Patty, that is easy. You are her partner and have been for a long time. If people equate that to being lesbian then so be it.
Hi Roxy. I agree with janet. Ask the girls what they're comfortable with. As for Patty, I'd say she is your life partner.
BTW I love the photo. You are just beautiful.
Hugs
Beth
Roxy:
I never looked to be called mom by my daughters. That honor is reserved for their mother. I will always be their father, and nothing can change that.
My daughters are adults and I prefer that they call me Sandy. And for the most part they do. Sometimes they forget and still call me dad, which I don't mind. And it is interesting when that happens in public. I notice the looks of people around me and it can be funny.
I am completely open and out. But I don't make a big deal of it. By now, all of my daughters friends know about me. If they have a question they can ask.
My granddaughters call me grandma Sandy which I adore. The oldest, a 5 year old, knows now that I started as a boy, but that doesn't bother me nor her. I am still grandma. There may come a time when she talks about that in kindergarten, but again, it is not anything I am afraid of. If the school somehow thinks that that is inappropriate, they'll have to deal with me (and the legal system if necessary).
Patricia is my partner and that is the way that I prefer to be introduced. We are partners and people can draw whatever they wish from it. We are an open lesbian couple and that is the way I feel.
It has presented some interesting situations, but always with others (like what happened during my granddaughers christening, check my blog). My life challenges society's classic definitions of gender. But it is society's problem to figure it out, not mine.
I live my life authentically, and I will not exchange one lie for another. So to the world, I am a female father and a lesbian in a committed relationship with a woman. So what's the problem?
To do or say anything else is an attempt to put me back in the closet. And this girl ain't never going back there!
-Sandy
Quote from: Nicky on January 05, 2011, 02:57:06 PM
I think it is ok if they introduce you as Roxy, but you could add to that "____ is my daughter" and avoid the whole thing of what title to call you.
I think it will be unavoidable Roxy that you look like a lesbian couple. I would refer to my partner as my love, my partner or my wife (if married). Perhaps in the right company my lover.
Well said.
For me, as well, partner is the term of choice. I have one lesbian friend who uses the term friend, but only in one situation: the few places where she is not out, like with her 80-something mom. We live in a state where our rights are protected and we are out in our lives. I suspect that matters to one's decisions. I do not mind being seen as lesbian. In fact, I now choose bisexual as my sexual orientation since I am sexually attracted to my partner whom I consider to be female (as well as trans).
We have 4 kids, the youngest is 19. The three older kids are from my first marriage and have always used my partner's name, so changing the name was no big deal to them, though they enjoy sometimes calling her Mama Chelsea, or addressing letters: Dear Mommas. I do not have a problem sharing the title of Mom. It was different when my kids step-mom wanted to be called Mom. I asked that she discontinue that (and she did). In that case, I felt that the biological connection needed to be honored. The kids were very young at the time, and I wanted them to know who the bio-mom was. But now, sharing the title of Mom with my partner who was their biological dad is a non-issue for me. She is the female parent and our language defines female parent as Mom. I do not need to defend it. I am secure that my children respect the fact that I carried them in my womb and she did not. But I will add that she did change diapers, make tons of peanut butter sandwiches and was the one home when the kids got there after school. I had a bookstore to run; the kids came there after school too, but I was usually too busy to give them much attention. If Chelsea had not been a stay-at-home dad, I might be more unwilling to share the Mom title.
Our youngest, whose biological father was Chelsea, likes to tell new kids he meets that he has two moms. Watching the reaction of the people gives him information about them. Some just ignore the comment; some say, wow, that's cool. What's that like? He befriends these curious ones with more enthusiasm, though he is a big hearted kid and tries to help others who struggle with the concept as well. I do agree with those who have said that the children need to find the terms that they feel comfortable with. Chelsea shared with our son that it made her feel good to be called Mom, Momma, Mamacita etc but just once. He took it from there.
Peace (a farewell salutation I picked up from our son...),
Ruby
My son now calls me Alex (when he remembers) in public and if further clarification is needed then i become 'one of his parents'. For reasons of my own i will never be his dad and so if he needs to call me mum at any stage then thats ok as well. He has started referring to my wife as 'mum' as well so depending on how he is addressing me at the time it can get a bit confusing
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
If I were in your position. (and I really wish I was, on several levels), I would suggest Roxy.
A mom is kinda something specific.
Patty is the mom, to you as well :laugh:
They are grown up, so you know they respect you. You don't need to enforce it with title.
I understand that, in the US especially, there are many families where a parent is called by their name.
Roxy:
Gotta agree with Spacial on this one, girl. Sounds like great advice to me.
Know what? HRT is majorly agreeing with you! You've got like 3+ times the endowment I do, and I believe we've been on HRT about the same amount of time ... I'm green with envy! Rock on, hon!
Firstly Roxy I want to say I think you and Patty are just absolutely adorable, and I love the way I see you support each other. I'm a newbie here but it didn't take me long to see that. :)
Now, onto your question. I agree with what many have said here that as far as your kids go you should ask them what they're comfortable with. Mom is a very specific term, sure, but you are a "mother figure" in their lives. Maybe Mama R? They could say my mom's wife. And of course, you could always just be Roxy to them. My wife's step dad, who has always been her father figure, has always been Ken to her, but that doesn't take away from their relationship.
Hi Roxy
Good to hear from you again.
Great picture btw with your ears pierced.
Difficult question about what your daughters should call you.
Well, as you can see, you have had a lot of advices, but I'm wondering, did you ever discuss that with your daughters and Patty?
Maybe they can bring something up where everybody is satisfied with.
But, I do agree with you, you need a title, after all your a genetic parent and a loving partner, and you deserve more than the title friend of mom I think.
I hope you can figure it out with them.
A lot of hugs and wisdom
Annette
One question. This might be personal, but might help me better understand your situation. Are you and Patty still together, as a couple? Are you significant others or are you just best friends? I think that would really depend on how you introduce her, based on if you are friends or a couple. I have never met a gay/lesbian couple that introduced their partner as a friend UNLESS they felt the company they were in was harmful to their relationship. Usually, it is this is my girlfriend/boyfriend or wife/husband. Honestly, do what is comfortable for both of you!
My girlfriend is almost always referred to as just that. However, I am in a wheelchair and have to deal with a lot of government employees. So, sometimes I just call her my caregiver, because I know they are going to hassle me and her about it. She actually prefers this just so we do not get a barrage of questions. Due to my being on govt. assistance - disability, I have to continuously disclose my former name/gender to these agency employees, which sucks. Some do not care, but some treat me like crap for knowing!
As for your children, I would sit down with them and ask what they should call you. Maybe they could say, "These are my parents, Roxy and Patty" to remove the need for mom or dad being used. Also you could consider variations of mom to not infringe on Patty being called "Mom"
i.e. this is my mom Patty and my mother Roxy
Mum, Mother, Mama, Madre...there is bound to be more variations!
Good luck to you and your family!
Hi Roxy & Patty
What! you two are a couple :o? Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone >:-)
I've several friends with with adult, late teen children. I think what they call you and Patty is a very private and precious thing. Ask them. Roxy you are their Dad, Father, Old Man ::). But obviously they love and respect you as well, ask them how they would like to refer to you in private and in public. It is their choice after all.
As for the community; my sister and I would like to introduce ourselves :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:sorry feeling in a laugh mood. I have to admit that introducing your partner was pretty normal. If people think you are lesbian it's there problem. Talk is already though the town so ?
BTW Roxy? where did you get those puppies? I'm so jealous.
Love
Cindy, who is as flat as a pancake :embarrassed: