HI SOs. Sorry to be posting in your forum but some of you might know more about this topic and I could use your help:
I'm FTM and I've been on Androgel for a year. For the most part I am very good about washing before being intimate with my SO. On occasion I won't shower if I'm remaining covered for sleep. She is experiencing severe acne around her chin and mouth that her dermatologist is saying is due to increased male hormones. I'm inclined to think that the male hormone is being transmitted from bodily fluids increased during intercourse and since it is around her mouth and chin from oral sex but I can't find any information about how T is transmitted through bodily fluids. Is anyone else experiencing this or have more information about this?
Thanks!
Can you go on patches or injections? I would think it is just the transfer of gel when you sleep even if you have a shirt on.
After being absorbed into your bloodstream, it won't be transferred through bodily sluids (otherwise every heterosexual woman would have this problem).
It is, however, somewhat possible that it could (a) transfer through clothing, especially if it's damp/sweaty, or (b) transfer from skin contact if your shirt rides up at night. You may want to be more careful about showering before sharing a bed even if you are staying clothed. Also consider other possible mechanisms of transfer - over the course of the day, do you ever rub or scratch the site where you apply the gel, and then touch your SO before washing your hands? Do you ever touch surfaces in the bathroom (faucet, sink, etc) after applying the gel and before washing your hands - and if so do you wash them thoroughly after?
It's also possible that this could have nothing to do with you. If you're willing, you could switch to injectables temporarily and see if your SO's problem continues.
Quote from: kadin on January 07, 2011, 12:07:07 PM
I'm FTM and I've been on Androgel for a year. For the most part I am very good about washing before being intimate with my SO.
Like others, I don't think it's transfer through bodily fluids, but could quite likely be due to skin contact, etc. Skin contact to areas that didn't come into contact with Androgel is fine. I believe it is claimed that Androgel can transfer from skin contact for a period of 5 hours (!!).
I would suggest using it at a time when you're less likely to come into contact with your SO for several hours, if possible (for instance, if you use it once a day, before you or her go to work might be a good time). You might also wear gloves while applying it (if you touch it with your hands), to make it not transfer to your hands - obviously you need to wash hands afterward if you come into contact with it, but even after you wash it's possible to transfer some of it for an hour or more.
I apply the gel to my stomach in the morning. I usually shower in the evening unless I'm sleeping in boxers and a T-shirt. It's quite possible that it's still transferring - I do overheat in the night and can be a little damp from night sweats.
Logic tells me also that cisgendered men don't transmit hormones in their bodily fluids other wise their female partners would also be reporting these problems. On the other hand, their bodily fluid make up is different from trans men and cisgendered women so it could also be possible that as a transman my bodily fluids are different from cisgendered men and could be a carrier of male hormone as a result of the gel. I can't seem to find any medical research on it.
transfer of hormones via body fluids is actually well established scientific research. Lots of links on the internet such as Pubmed.
Males who have active sex lives also display many nice symptoms from ingested estrogen off their female partners.
Gay men display various physical and mental effects from ingested testosterone.
What is generally labelled the good health of happy couples is aided by the typical flesh to flesh contact that transmits a small dose of hormones.
Lots of clinical research on animals and humans has shown that body odours cause the release of various compounds with hormonal effects.
Quote from: lilacwoman on January 07, 2011, 01:59:52 PM
transfer of hormones via body fluids is actually well established scientific research. Lots of links on the internet such as Pubmed.
"absorbing hormones off your partner" search in google turns up...pretty much nothing.
Would you care to link some of these pages?
get your bible and look for the line ' a man should sip at his own well.' its been a while since I last picked up a bible and can't quite remember the exact wording but its advice for happy marriage.
So-called "BRSS" is completely discredited pseudoscience whose sole purpose is to push a homophobic, misogynist agenda. The entire premise behind it is absurd.
And no, there's simply no realistic mechanism for hormone transfer (in significant amounts) through bodily fluids, which is why there's no research on it. Trans, cis, it doesn't matter, your blood/fluid concentrations of sex hormones are so low as to be completely meaningless for your partner.
A trans guy injects/applies on the order of (not giving a specific dose) 100-250 mg of testosterone esters each month. Call it 250mg. The average guy weighs around 75kg = 75,000 g, at about 80% fluid, so the average guy has about 60,000 g = 60,000 ml fluid in his body. If all of the T that the trans guy takes in an entire month were present at one time in ester form and evenly distributed throughout his bodily fluids (this is not the case, so I'm overestimating the concentration) then the concentration of T esters in his bodily fluids would be 250mg/60,000ml = 0.004 mg/ml. That's just not going to add up to a significant dose on any sort of relevant time scale. And I'm being extremely overgenerous about the possible concentration.
If there is hormone transfer between a trans guy using testosterone gel and his partner, the gel is the culprit. Even a tiny amount of gel residue soaking through clothes or being picked up from clothes/sheets is going to deliver a dramatically higher dose than whatever miniscule amount of sex hormone may be present in bodily fluids.
Of course, it's also possible that the partner's high T levels are endogenous. The way to find out is by eliminating the gel as a possible source, by going on injectable T or avoiding physical contact and bed-sharing for a few weeks, and testing her T levels again.
Quote from: lilacwoman on January 07, 2011, 01:59:52 PM
transfer of hormones via body fluids is actually well established scientific research. Lots of links on the internet such as Pubmed.
Could you provide one link to peer reviewed research on this or a reliable news article on such research?
...and saying nasty things tends to get moderator attention, Lilacwoman.
Yes this kind of transference from hormone Gel and or Sprays is well documented I'd recommend that for her sake you consider changing medication. It'd be extremely difficult to limit the exposure as your begin intimate with one another.
Here's where I learned of this phenomenon.
http://www.suite101.com/content/use-of-hormonal-products-may-adversely-affect-a-pets-health-a314694 (http://www.suite101.com/content/use-of-hormonal-products-may-adversely-affect-a-pets-health-a314694)
It mentions a number of short stories where kids were experiencing breast budding from there mothers menopausal hormone products, Aswell as spayed pets going into heat.
Thanks Everyone! I'm frustrated that there isn't more information about how the gel can transfer through or from clothes, sheets, etc. I've had a great conversation with my partner and I'll be switching to shots soon. Which means I'll be starting a new thread in the not too distant future. I'm nervous about the emotional swings and such and lack of control of my dosage. But I'll take that too a new thread! Thanks again!
Quote from: Miniar on January 08, 2011, 11:52:22 AM
Could you provide one link to peer reviewed research on this or a reliable news article on such research?
they can't but I can
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/425.abstract (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/425.abstract)
Quote from: Flan on January 08, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
they can't but I can
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/425.abstract (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/425.abstract)
Nope, this doesn't refer to "transfer of hormones via body fluids" but "transfer via skin contact with the application site".
Nobody as far as I'm aware minar is attempting to uphold Lilacs claim but more the fact that T gel or even E gel goes all over the place and causes problems for those around you.
'course not, but the link was posted as a reply to me calling for peer reviewed research that confirms lilac's assertion
Quote from: Miniar on January 09, 2011, 06:06:21 PM
'course not, but the link was posted as a reply to me calling for peer reviewed research that confirms lilac's assertion
and as far as that claim, there isn't evidence that I know of (aside from breast milk, urine, and feces).
Quote from: Flan on January 09, 2011, 06:18:23 PM
and as far as that claim, there isn't evidence that I know of (aside from breast milk, urine, and feces).
Exactly. ;)
Sevan is on testim and I was woried about contact with T, so... I make sure Sevan always washes hir hands well and once the T is on hir intimate contact is out for a minimum of 2 hours. Ussualy I won't get to intimate unless ze has had a shower since last aplication.
I would wager that you are being lax on your precautions.