Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm just about to start my therapy and was wanting to know a bit more about HRT before I got my hopes up.. basically I want all of you fella's opinions who have been through this before to help shine some light on my doubt.

The more I read about HRT, the more I get excited about going through it.. it'll let me finally be a whole person(hopefully!) The bad thing is.. I have a girlfriend whom I love and cherish, and want to marry her soon.. isn't exactly thrilled of the idea of me turning into a woman. I really don't want to be full woman, but I also don't want to have a male body anymore. I just want a nice mixture of both.

I don't know if that's possible, because most of what I've read about HRT involves going full female.. but is it possible to get HRT and just reach a desired level of fem that doesn't turn your body 90% female?

Thanks for reading and for your any insights you can offer me! <3

It is possible, but you need a helpful endocronologist to achieve this. Sometimes they can be hard to find, someone you can work with to monitor your development and adjust things as needed. The reality is results vary anyway. I'm getting great results but I still have a masculine edge to my body, like broad shoulders and good arm muscles and slender hips. I quite like it.

It sounds to me that what you really want is a female body, but want to soften it to make it more acceptable for your partner. This is something to explore in therapy - would that change be enough? It might not be.

Yeah, it is possible. Not many people achieve it though. Mainly the issue is getting an endo or doctor willing to help you get a more androgenous appearance, and then there is the unknowns of how your body will react to hormones. Also sometimes it could be unhealthy to not have certain levels of hormones in your body.

Best of luck with the therapy! Keep talking to that lady of yours! If she is not happy for you then it sounds like you have work to do there.

Hugs
Nicole

WOW 90% female

I need that hrt!!

There is no miracle pill, if you have some female characteristics hrt may enhance them, it may also soften some male features.

The only thing you may achieve a 90% level of is losing your LIBIDO, you better let your girlfriend know this, if its something you would like to have regularly. (libido that is)
As far as I'm concerned there is no half way even if you don't have SRS. HRT will rewire the way you think, feel, react and  your general out look on life.

Ya you may grow breasts, skin will soften, gain wight differently......blah, blah, but all this doesn't have to even be seen or ISN"T'
The mental changes aren't seen either, but its harder to WANT to hide those physical changes then.

If I just confused you more. well thats how hrt works

Thanks for the replies!

My body is already very feminine minus a few male characteristics (I have broad shoulders). I'm mostly excited about HRT because it'll actually let me express emotions that I won't allow myself to let out. I guess it's a thing where you lie to yourself for so long, you start to accept the lie as the truth, ya know?

I'm really trying to find information that will put my girlfriend to ease if I'm going to get on HRT.

And I'm a VERY logical person, and hardly ever let my emotions do.. uh.. anything(besides make me angry). I just want to be the same person I am now.. but more 'unlocked' I guess?

As for the libido.. hell, I barely have one of those now. I'm 24 and don't get erections unless I'm with my girlfriend. I do still get 'aroused' but just without the swelling side effect.  ::)

I'm starting to think I have very low T in me for some reason. I've noticed this past year that I just don't 'feel' anymore, my body hair is taking longer to grow back, it's lighter, and my hair has become super fabulous.

Again, thanks for the helpful comments! <3

Quote from: Alex Marie on January 11, 2011, 06:27:40 PM
I don't know if that's possible, because most of what I've read about HRT involves going full female.. but is it possible to get HRT and just reach a desired level of fem that doesn't turn your body 90% female?

Anti-androgens and an extremely low dose of estrogen will probably achieve this, or just anti-androgens on their own.

The great thing about hormone treatments is that the results are completely predictable.
You can fine-tune your dosage to get any results that you want.
WRONG!
If you start taking hormones it is for the purpose of going all the way.
You have no control over how your body will react.
Anybody who thinks that they can use hormones to achieve intermediate results is deluding themselves.

Hormones are not toys.

Quote from: Renate on January 12, 2011, 05:36:50 AM
The great thing about hormone treatments is that the results are completely predictable.
You can fine-tune your dosage to get any results that you want.
WRONG!
If you start taking hormones it is for the purpose of going all the way.
You have no control over how your body will react.
Anybody who thinks that they can use hormones to achieve intermediate results is deluding themselves.

Hormones are not toys.

THIS ^

I have no doubt that endocrinology can achieve a lot, but this is biology and not rocket science, besides the hormones themselves may change how far you want to go.

My experience of this is that the majority (ok I will admit that there are a FEW exceptions) who set out on this road end up going all the way eventually. So I think if you are going to do it a bit of honesty with your GF is a better strategy than trying to deceive yourself and her as to what can be guaranteed. It can't.

actually some people do achieve intermediate results with intent. I have a friend who has done just that. They went to the endo, talked about what they wanted, tried certain dosages and they fed back the results - like "I am getting more breast growth than I wanted", so the endo adjusted things and kept monitoring and they are doing great!

So it is possible. There are just some trade offs along the way.

But I agree with Jenny about there being no guarantees, and it is not an exact thing. I also agree with Jenny that if what you really want is to be a woman then you need to be honest about that.

Hi Alex Marie,

Just wanted to put up some flags and things to take into consideration...

Many things are possible, but as said above, it's not an absolute. Bodies are complex systems and never fully predictable. Every HRT is a trial and error to figure out the best levels of hormones for the individual.

I myself used to love the idea of partly feminizing, but ended up not going there because of the health risks involved. Blocking your T's gives nice results but also reduces the base material you need if you want to consider SRS in the long run. And... blocking your androgens is equivalent to a chemical castration, potentially reducing your libido to 0.

Also, you should keep in mind that HRT (on whatever level of intensity) reduces fertility (up to destroying it irreversibly). When you say you want to get married, make sure your SO is aware of the fact that you might not have children together, unless you take precautions now (e.g. storing your sperm).

Love,
Emma

How about someone who wants to go as far as they can with feminizing through HRT, but still plans on presenting as an androgynous boy most of the time? I feel like my dysphoria is most closely tied to the way I body is, and less so to everyone considering me fully female. Among most of my friends and social circles, i'm considered an androgyne anyway.

Put it this way.. when I announced on Facebook that I was considering partially transitioning to female through HRT, no one was surprised. If anything, they said they'd only be surprised if I was going all the way and living as a woman, since I already seem to enjoy living in between the genders.  :)

Quote from: Nobuko on January 18, 2011, 03:42:01 AM
How about someone who wants to go as far as they can with feminizing through HRT, but still plans on presenting as an androgynous boy most of the time?

Keep your facial hair. That will confuse the hell out of everyone.

If there's one thing I wish HRT would get rid of, it's facial hair. :P

That said, I've always enjoyed being somewhat of a question mark when it comes to gender. And feminizing my body would open the door to hilarious situations where I reveal to hapless acquittances my chest bindings and that I was secretly a girl living as a boy all along. Which isn't far from the truth, to be honest. ;)

QuoteI really don't want to be full woman, but I also don't want to have a male body anymore. I just want a nice mixture of both.

My understanding is that the purpose of HRT as it is prescribed to transsexuals is for the purpose of making one's body hormonally female. It is not a magic pill to turn someone's body physically female but will result in the horomonal levels of the body to be the same as a genetic female. I personally don't understand the purpose of taking HRT if you are not either full time in the gender your HRT is for or planning on living full time in the near future. It isn't a toy to play around with. A number of self-identified TSs I know in the "community" who in my opinion are really just genderqueer take HRT for the sole purpose of feminizing their bodies and then stop as soon as they either get the desired results or max out its capabilities. Now while they may have more feminine looking bodies their hormonal levels soon go back to that of a genetic male. Many of the people I know that do this take hormones illegally and prefer to take estrogen but do not want the anti-androgens or anything to stop the testosterone because they want to look female but maintain a male sex drive. No sensible therapist in my opinion will consider such a person to be a TS and no sensible doctor will play that game.

I can't claim to be an expert because I just started HRT and I'm not a doctor. But my understanding is that HRT will again hormonally change your body to be that of a genetic female's, slightly alter the breast and buttocks areas to be more feminine, soften the skin, reduce hair growth on all areas of the body excluding the face and genital areas, result in mental and emotional changes to that of a genetic female, and cause a drop in male libido followed by the creation of a female libido. I believe that the purpose of HRT is also to prepare your body for SRS or an orchiectomy at which point you will be permanently rid of genetic male level hormones. Taking it for the purpose of "feeling" like a woman, looking like a woman, or anything else related to being a woman without the goal of actually living as a woman doesn't make any sense to me. I've heard that HRT is a real testing ground to weed out the crossdressers from the true transsexuals. I can't confirm it but it makes sense. If being a woman is a fantasy or a sexual fetish then the resulting loss of male libido will be undesirable. If being a woman is who you are inside, then you should be glad to get rid of these things. I know I'm on the soapbox here but I had to get it off my chest. Too many TSs (and CDs) want miracle pills, believe that HRT does things it does not, have expectations that are not realistic, and want only the parts of the HRT that suit their wants and needs that I felt I needed to speak up here. It is my opinion that if you are not prepared to have a hormonal level of a genetic female (or as close as feasibly possible) for the rest of your life then you should avoid HRT.

That aside I have limited expectations of results other than the hormonal changes in my body. I'm not going to delude myself that HRT will turn me into a Miss America because such expectations are unrealistic and irrelevant to the purpose of transitioning.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 19, 2011, 01:07:03 AM
I personally don't understand the purpose of taking HRT if you are not either full time in the gender your HRT is for or planning on living full time in the near future. It isn't a toy to play around with. A number of self-identified TSs I know in the "community" who in my opinion are really just genderqueer take HRT for the sole purpose of feminizing their bodies and then stop as soon as they either get the desired results or max out its capabilities.

Is there a problem with genderqueers taking HRT? My purpose is to get my body closer in line with my spirit, which straddles the borders of binary gender.

Quote
Taking it for the purpose of "feeling" like a woman, looking like a woman, or anything else related to being a woman without the goal of actually living as a woman doesn't make any sense to me. I've heard that HRT is a real testing ground to weed out the crossdressers from the true transsexuals. I can't confirm it but it makes sense. If being a woman is a fantasy or a sexual fetish then the resulting loss of male libido will be undesirable. If being a woman is who you are inside, then you should be glad to get rid of these things.

What is SRS if not getting your body into a state where you feel like it belongs or that you are comfortable with?  I guess under your definition I would be a 'fake transsexual', as I don't desire to live as a woman full time. I feel that I should have been born as female instead of male, and if offered a 'miracle pill' I'd take it in a heartbeat. But they don't exist, and you have to make do with what's available.

And be careful about those "if being a woman is who you are inside, then bluh bluh bluh" logic trains. To me, that sounds exactly the same as "You were born a man, so you should like male things" or "You are a woman so you should like dolls and skirts and dresses".  No two women, or people for that matter, are created equal.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 19, 2011, 01:07:03 AM
I personally don't understand the purpose of taking HRT if you are not either full time in the gender your HRT is for or planning on living full time in the near future.

Interestingly, many non-trans people don't understand the purpose of taking HRT if you're not suffering from menopause.
Your lack of understanding does not constitute a valid reasoning point.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 19, 2011, 01:07:03 AM
No sensible therapist in my opinion will consider such a person to be a TS and no sensible doctor will play that game.

Here is the relevant quote from the Standards of Cards (taken from Susan's Wiki):

QuoteCan Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?
Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need for cross living or surgery.

S

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 19, 2011, 01:07:03 AM
Many of the people I know that do this take hormones illegally and prefer to take estrogen but do not want the anti-androgens or anything to stop the testosterone because they want to look female but maintain a male sex drive. No sensible therapist in my opinion will consider such a person to be a TS and no sensible doctor will play that game.

I don't see why not.

Like I said I'm not a doctor. If your therapist and/or doctor thinks you should take HRT then all power to you. It is certainly true that there are people who are bigendered, androgynous, and genderqueer. There are those who are intersexed as well. These are all different though than transsexualism. I routinely see the term transsexualism incorrectly assigned to issues that are not transsexualism. For transsexual care, the purpose is to provide hormones to make the individual hormonally of the gender they are transitioning to. I wasn't aware that hormones were routinely prescribed to other TG people who are not transsexual. I stand corrected.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 20, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
For transsexual care, the purpose is to provide hormones to make the individual hormonally of the gender they are transitioning to.

Some transsexuals choose not to take hormones.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 20, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Like I said I'm not a doctor. If your therapist and/or doctor thinks you should take HRT then all power to you.

I know a woman who takes anti-androgens for acne.

We've only scratched the surface on what TG means and what doctors and therapists think changes.  I started seeing a gender therapist in my mid 20s and am now in my mid 30s.  I read message boards and sites 10+ years ago and the conversation was completely different..it was what you are saying.  Who knows how many people transitioned under that script. 

The rainbow is much broader now. I see much much more honesty (still not enough) more nuance.  I could not identify with TG 10 years ago.  The lines felt sexist and fake.  Today it's very different, very diverse.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 20, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Like I said I'm not a doctor. If your therapist and/or doctor thinks you should take HRT then all power to you. It is certainly true that there are people who are bigendered, androgynous, and genderqueer. There are those who are intersexed as well. These are all different though than transsexualism. I routinely see the term transsexualism incorrectly assigned to issues that are not transsexualism. For transsexual care, the purpose is to provide hormones to make the individual hormonally of the gender they are transitioning to. I wasn't aware that hormones were routinely prescribed to other TG people who are not transsexual. I stand corrected.

Maybe the true transsexuals should wear a badge..."certified TS, who underwent SRS".
That will show em!

I can't give medical advice and neither can most other people here. It remains my opinion, however, that hormones and other drugs are not toys to be played with. I'm tired of the identity theft that has happened to TS people by the "gender community." If you are not neurologically of one sex with the body of another sex then by medical definition you are NOT TS. It has nothing to do with "feeling" masculine or feminine, liking dolls as a kid instead of trucks, etc. although there are often correlations. It strictly has to do with being in the wrong body, period. There has been an explosion in just the past few years of people coming out as TS and wanting to take hormones, etc. "but not go all the way." They say "I'm a MTF TS" yet they want their penis and enjoy using their penis to penetrate other men and women, want to keep their testosterone levels up, etc. yet look otherwise like a female. That is not TS because that is not the definition of being "born in the wrong body."

The original post was from someone wanting to start HRT but not going all the way and not considering herself "completely female." Hormones are dangerous, they can shorten your life, give you blood clots, fry your heart and liver, and kill you. The only sensible puropse to taking dangerous drugs is to correct a serious condition. Unfortunately, in America (and perhaps elsewhere) it has become popular for people to want to pill pop so that they can "feel better about themselves" when drugs are not really necessary. Doctors will most of the time prescribe them anyway. There are plenty of doctors who don't follow the SOC either.

I'm aware hormones are used for cisgender reasons but that wasn't the point I was making. Anyway, I'm going to comment more along these lines in another thread on another forum because it is going off-topic.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 22, 2011, 10:46:16 PM
There has been an explosion in just the past few years of people coming out as TS and wanting to take hormones, etc. "but not go all the way." They say "I'm a MTF TS" yet they want their penis and enjoy using their penis to penetrate other men and women, want to keep their testosterone levels up, etc. yet look otherwise like a female. That is not TS because that is not the definition of being "born in the wrong body."

This explosion is an explosion of truth and the myriad of gender identity.  There have to be some women who want penises. You often post about the true transsexual but it's just not that way anymore.  Some people want a genderless identity or want to identify as "themselves."

I am dysphoric and have been since my earliest memories.  My mind map and body do not align.  I do not use my penis to penetrate and have never been able to.  I am good looking and very successful.  I have been seeing gender therapists since I found out they exist in my early twenties.  I am approved for HRT.  I have mostly female friends but also a few male friends.  I am bisexual but married a beautiful successful cis woman who has known from our first date. I have a son. (a planned slapstick moment for someone who isn't aroused by penetration) I am out as TS to many people.  I am successful and my name appears on film, tv, and books I've worked on.  I wouldn't want to change it.  I don't need to change that much right now although I think it's inevitable that I transition fully later in life, if I live that long.  I have A cup breasts and a girl's butt, have always had gynocamastia.  I don't cross-dress.  I wear some product every day.  I may start HRT in the next few months...may not. I waffle every day.   I am TS but ironically my body is not that important to me either way.  I work and take the advantages I get.  Full transition would be a huge, distracting disadvantage and since my life is somewhat public...a bit of a joke.

You can be TG without it being the most critical thing in your life and putting a little toe in the water makes total sense.

According to the SOC, HRT can be prescribed without intent to fully transition. There are certain changes from HRT that are most likely permanent (probably the most important being eventual infertility). However, most of the changes are likely to be subtle: drier and less oily skin, less body hair, more subcutaneous fat, some breast development (sure, you might get C cups, but don't bet on it), etc. Most trans women starting their transition  any time after their early 20's have to try and do more than simply go on HRT in order to ensure that people read their gender as undoubtedly female, or at lest very nearly so. At the very least, this includes removal of facial hair.

So going on HRT is actually just the thing to give you a "nice mixture of both" male and female ... much to mu chagrin.

By the way, DO NOT skip the estrogen. Just don't. Your body needs it -- either that or testosterone -- and just going on T blockers is likely to kill not only your sex drive, but your drive in general. Some doctors start with just T blockers, but they introduce E within a few months.

Now here's the one problem with your whole plan:


There are two reasons for this. The first reason is simple: Society doesn't do a very good job of making a place for people who don't fit well into one of the two binary gender categories or the other. The second reason is more complicated: Transsexual people, by the fact of being transsexual, don't have an experience of living in a congruent gender role until they transition, which makes it difficult to imagine what it might feel like to do so. As a result, many go through a period of identifying as neither female nor male, which quickly ends after a few concrete steps toward transition. My personal experience and what I have read on this site over the last three years suggests that HRT is often the catalyst that makes people want to TRANSITION RIGHT NOW!!!! It really threw me for a loop, even though I had been warned.

In other words:


Best wishes for your journey. It will probably be difficult, but also extremely rewarding, wherever it takes you.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 22, 2011, 10:46:16 PM
I can't give medical advice and neither can most other people here. It remains my opinion, however, that hormones and other drugs are not toys to be played with. I'm tired of the identity theft that has happened to TS people by the "gender community." If you are not neurologically of one sex with the body of another sex then by medical definition you are NOT TS. It has nothing to do with "feeling" masculine or feminine, liking dolls as a kid instead of trucks, etc. although there are often correlations. It strictly has to do with being in the wrong body, period. There has been an explosion in just the past few years of people coming out as TS and wanting to take hormones, etc. "but not go all the way." They say "I'm a MTF TS" yet they want their penis and enjoy using their penis to penetrate other men and women, want to keep their testosterone levels up, etc. yet look otherwise like a female. That is not TS because that is not the definition of being "born in the wrong body."

How do you know? Do you know all these people personally? No. So why are you so judgemental? I know transwoman who had surgery and with my best fantasy I could never view them as woman, because she is masculine in EVERY WAY... including the way she treats woman. I know a transwoman that was ALWAYS feminine and now lives as a woman but decided not to undergo the surgery. I my view she is more woman then the post op woman I described. And that is not only my personal view, it's also the view of all the people she meets.
I know transmen and woman who did not have surgery but If they were not able to transition with hormones they would have ended their lives. It's these people's live's you are beeing judgemental about.
Born in the wrong body? 80% of transwoman experienced only mild to moderate discomfort living in the wrong body and social role for almost half of their lives. And a lot of so called non-ops (non-TS as you say) have experienced severe discomfort. So dont give me that fairytale. I won't buy it.

Anyway, I am tired of the discussion anyway....it is not worth it. And the way you view TS makes me believe you yourself are not a TS. Because as a TS from childhood on, you should know that genderidentity has nothing to do with your genitals.

Bye
Birgit

To the OP: Yes, you can adjust the doses to get the feminization you want. Just be aware of the risks.

I'm TS, but I don't want to give up my future career because I wouldn't be able to live without it. Therefore, I can't transition, but I'm a woman inside. I cycle on & off HRT. I recently moved and this town doesn't have a TG-friendly psychiatrist nor endocrinologist and closest one is 2-3 hours away. From my previous city, I've been prescribed hormones by my endocrinologist & my psychiatrist knows that I'm cycling HRT because of my situation. I'm in a weird situation in this new town because I have no medical support compared to my previous city I was living in, but my previous specialists all have been very supportive and I'm thankful for that.

Life isn't always black and white. Life happens... HRT on full throttle isn't for everyone. A lot of us are just protective of each other & worried about each other on here.

Quote from: tatiana on January 29, 2011, 11:56:03 PM
I cycle on & off HRT. .... I've been prescribed hormones by my endocrinologist & my psychiatrist knows that I'm cycling HRT because of my situation.

Why cycling rather than a consistent low dose?

S

Quote from: Simone Louise on January 30, 2011, 08:26:21 AM
Why cycling rather than a consistent low dose?

Not to hijack this thread... I'll keep this short.

Effects of low dose leads to continuous feminization while just anti-androgens are just not enough against GID. I still want to retain my masculinity since I am living a male role. Message me if you want to discuss in detail.