Alright, so I pretty much got that other thread locked. Sorry about that. I'm hoping we can try this again, though.
It irks me that we're not allowed to discuss dosages - it seems safer/better to be able to talk about it and say "this has worked for me, what do you think, what do you know about it" than for us to have to skirt around the issue.
I'm sorry, but if there are people taking DHEA and people curious about it, shouldn't we be allowed to discuss it?
And I understand the other arguements that could be used - yes, everyone is different and is going to react accordingly. But I would much rather base what I'm doing on someone's personal experience, rather than simply my best guess. There are ALWAYS typical results. People react differently to T, but we know enough about it to say "this will most likely happen." I imagine if people share what has happened to them while taking DHEA, we can get the same idea about it. We'll be able to be educated and say "yeah, this will most likely happen." As far as I know, there haven't been any studies about the effects of DHEA in transguys.
You know, I walked into GNC and bought DHEA.
All I want to know is if that was the right thing to do. I've read all I can find but barely any of it is trans-specific.
Here is what I know: I know what the back of the bottle tells me. I know what I have read online. I'll summarize.
From what I can tell, DHEA will produce watered down effects of T. That's because it's a precursor to hormones...both estrogen and T. That makes me wonder what I'm getting into. Is it all a wild guess as to which hormone DHEA will turn into? Am I just putting even more estrogen in my body?
Well, somehow I doubt that - possibly because I have NEVER heard of an MTF taking DHEA, and I've heard about a handful or two FTMs. I know that if you take too much testosterone it will convert to estrogen. This is why dosage is so, so important. If you take too much, you're gonna get the opposite of what you want.
This is just what I think.
Also, I've never heard of anyone taking T in pill form (bad for the liver if I'm remembering correctly) but estrogen can be taken in pill form. But I guess I don't have a point in this observation, because it is different - you aren't taking the hormone, you're taking a precursor to hormones.
This is a bit jumbled and I apologize for it. Basically I just want to hold a conversation that will suit everyone. I want to respect the site (and Susan's) wishes and of course whatever she says is going to be set in stone, but I'd also like to request the opportunity for those interested in taking DHEA and those with knowledge about DHEA to be able to talk about it. Because honestly, I don't have anywhere else to go. I don't think any of us do. If we can't do it here, it's simply not gonna happen.
So I'll say: I've been taking DHEA since Dec. 31st. (Won't say how much of it unless someone tells me that's okay to do.)
I've woken up with a sore throat a couple of times, and my voice has cracked quite a bit. Not really deeper but kind of shaky, I guess. I'm not necessarily feeling more energized - I'm napping a lot, actually. In the shower I was thinking "did that get bigger?" but I very honestly can't tell you because it's most likely wishful thinking and I don't have an accurate idea of how big it was to begin with. I don't give much attention to anything down there. HEADACHES! Daily. Acne...I usually have very clear skin but I have been breaking out recently (even before taking DHEA). It has possibly made it worse, or else I'm just breaking out for some other reason. Of course everything is going to be speculation. I haven't been taking DHEA nearly long enough to believe it is the cause for anything (except maybe the headaches).
That's all I've got for now.
(Unless you want to hear that I just spent a week and a half with my beautiful girlfriend and I am very, very sad to be back home. I can't wait to see her again!)
- Tyler.
Tyler, we do not discuss or advise on dosages period. If you want this information it is out there to be found on other web sites, on FAQ's, it is available from Doctors and pharmacists, it's available from clinics, etc. You are probably right that most folks are sensible enough to realize what they are taking, the dangers and risks, and the possible side effects one can expect. But there is always that one person who doesn't heed those warnings and does damage to themselves and we do not want to be the cause of that, or to have that on our conscience. I do not want to be the one to receive an email from a distraught spouse or parent, asking me why I advised her/his loved one to try this and then try that causing that person to be admitted to the E.R. because of my medical advice.
Yes it's frustrating but those are the rules that we follow on this site.
Steph
DHEA is a supplement available at health food stores, not self-medication per se. If you don't take more than is recommended on the bottle, I can't see that it'd do any harm. But, like anything, if it's taken contrary to directions, there are likely risks. As to benefits or desired effects, I haven't heard much convincing from FtM's who've taken it. If money is an issue, it's probably best saved for the costs of transition.
Dennis
Hey Tyler,
Why not just wait until you can begin T? As you stated, there's simply not enough knowledge of DHEA's effects. What if it is like putting more estrogen into your body? What if you get some horrible side effect of your chest growing bigger or your hips widening out or something? And as you're not being monitored by a doctor for this drug, what if something goes wrong?
My guess would be that one month on T would do more than years of this stuff.
There's no clock ticking for FtMs, no need to get a head start before going on the real thing.
I understand you want to do something NOW, but are the watered-down effects (which are likely to be minimal at best) really worth the risks? Especially since you don't know exactly what this drug will do?
(congrats on the nice week with your girl ;))
Quote from: Dennis on January 08, 2007, 09:40:09 AM
DHEA is a supplement available at health food stores, not self-medication per se. If you don't take more than is recommended on the bottle, I can't see that it'd do any harm. But, like anything, if it's taken contrary to directions, there are likely risks. As to benefits or desired effects, I haven't heard much convincing from FtM's who've taken it. If money is an issue, it's probably best saved for the costs of transition.
Dennis
There is one big difference between supplements and prescription drugs. Supplements have not been tested by the FDA or any other countries health agency. Most studies you read refering to the results of taking a supplement are just sales pitches. Each company that sells the supplement makes up the dose, it does not come from studies. Supplements have no mandatory quality control, a dose from one bottle can be double that of another. Most supplements have turned out to be harmless at least in the short run but who knows. No one tracks the health of those buying a supplement. If 5 percent are dying of heart failure who would know? There is no record to follow and these drugs have not been tested for safety by anyone.
As far as discussing dosages, one persons experience can vary widely from anothers on the same dosage. Supplements are powerful drugs, it is not safe to assume they have no effect or are safe for everyone at suggested dosages. Drugs are originally taken from herbs and supplements, sometimes they are synthesized later but most originally come from many of the supplements available.
beth
Yeah, it can turn into estrogen if you take too much. Take a reasonable dose then, which is what I'm doing. No chance of me starting T for awhile so I'm taking the chance and using DHEA for now. Been taking it a few weeks now and so far it's produced some facial hair, which I'm happy with. No voices changes yet. But I have a deep voice to begin with so I'm fine with that, noticed a few cracks in my voice though. It's made me acne a little worse...but in my opinion a small price to pay. I do take more than the reccommended amount though...but not like insanely out of range. I can't say, I guess.
So yeah, you can screw up taking it. I haven't seen much research done in its use in transguys either. If your body has too much of one hormone, it will convert it into the opposite hormone, I think. That's why if you dose too much it'll turn into estrogen, thus why its use in bio guys there's a potential for it turning into estrogen increased. I'll take the chance...but it hasn't failed me so far. YMMV
I have a friend whose a fitness nut... basicly she takes allot of diffrent suplements, includeing dhea, and she ofcorse took higher than the recomended dosages for a while...
She did masculinize through the combonation of everything, she looks more like a guy than I ever did... Thats not bad for the FTM's but its bad for a GG happy being a GG..... Obtaining her goal bodyfat wise reduced her to manish proportions for the most part, and she even worked out to the point where she lost the hourglass figure waistwise....
Now this all dosnt sound too bad for the FTM does it?
Heres the bad part.... She has done what the doctors claim to be perminant damage to her liver and kidnies... She was told the long term use of supliments other than your standard multivitimans, especialy overdoseing is more dangerous than many perscription drugs....
So if your going to try it, be very very careful.... It might be better just to wait till you can start what ever it is you need rather than risking poisoning yourself thorugh unregulated suplements....