As I kinda start to really embrace my transition now, I really feel my male self starting to fade away. And I feel like that part of me is dying, as i embrace my female side. Does anybody else feel that way or know what im saying? It's weird :P
My old self on the out side is dead and buried.... but what he made me is always going to be with me and will influence me too I guess.. So I do see what you are saying partly
??? ???
When I went full time and had my name change I posted a obituary on MySpace. He is still around sometimes in times of trouble but for all intents and purposes, he is gone now.
interesting topic.
I feel more like I'm shaking of an avatar. But I'm not fulltime yet ;)
I have felt that way before, sometimes I feel guilty, I feel like I 'killed her' but, i think she was really me the whole time, she just didn't know it. or that i was inside of her, waiting to get out.
I dunno if that sounds weird, hopefully not too weird.
I didn't really...have an old self. I wore a cute, bubbly mask and pretty much faked a personality by mimicking the people around me. This was through most of high school and part of college. It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized that "Kim" wasn't really a person, which really bothered me for a while until I realized that I don't have to exist as a girl. Anyways, I don't feel like she's dead because she wasn't actually real. I do slip back into that mask from time to time because, frankly, I know how to use it a lot better than I know how to be a guy in many situations. There are also many people who only know me as her, and I'm terrified of coming out to many of them. It bothers me when this happens, so I hope I can become confident enough to be done with her forever soon.
That's actually how I view my transition.... It was more about letting, "him," fall away and me taking over... Only now do I realize how hopeless it was to try to live while wearing a mask all the time.
I felt him dying, too.... but it was okay, like he was relieved to not have to fight anymore. I've heard transition described as, "Deathless suicide." Others always tell me that's a morbid way to see it but that's really what it feels like, to me. He died so that I could live. He protected me for 35 years but just couldn't do it anymore. I'm grateful to him but he's gone. I can't even find his voice anymore.
I don't feel like "he" was ever alive. It never felt that way. For me it feels more ~she~ aka ME is fighting for a life that she always wanted and deserved. I have no problem leaving him for dead. "Cuz everybody dies, but not everybody lives"
A friend of mine put it like this yesterday: "It feels so weird when people call you Maldita (my old name). It makes me think 'Oh, where is she?'. It's like you and she are different persons, and Elias is much happier than she was. When I look at you, I can't see anything else than Elias."
I did a pretty crap job pretending to be a girl, considering how my former classmates used to call me "that tr*nny" and "->-bleeped-<-" and say that I wasn't a real girl. This was before I was even out to myself.
I never liked the "old self dying" metaphor. I prefer to think more of it along the lines of becoming...
Becoming the person I was meant to be...
Becoming the person I always knew I was...
Becoming to have my body match my brain.
The sum of your being includes all your life experiences, from both pre and post transition. You can't selectively block them out at will.
JennX: "You can't selectively block them out at will."
I'm sorry but that statement just plain irritates me.
There's an obvious division among Transsexual people concerning the "Old self dying" issue but there always seems to be someone who feels the need to throw pebbles at those of us who have experienced a greater sensitivity when it comes to reconciling our lives before and after transition.
I am not delusional. I would never suggest that my experiences before transition have not shaped who I am today. I do, however, recall that my life before transition was pretty damn miserable and yes, I avoid thinking about it. It's difficult for me, sometimes, to even see "his" name on junk mail. I recognize that there are some who are more comfortable with being Trans and have never felt the pain that I have; I've spoken with a few who don't even mind the pronoun slips or the name issues... I wish it were that simple for me.
We're not blocking anything out... Just recognizing that putting the other identity to rest is necessary for us to provide closure and move on. It's not just a metaphor for some ... it's a very real phenomena for some of us. Please don't assume that everyone's path is the same.
I apologize if this seems like too much of a rant but it touched a nerve. JennX, I'm not attacking you personally, just the opinion you share with lots of others.
I came to the point about a month ago when I felt there was no going back.
That the other life was gone. That life were I was a make believe guy had changed forever.
He was never alive but I still knew when he left for good.
But I didn't morn him but I was saddened and that was a surprise for me.
I didn't think I would ever feel like that, beacause I so much wanted to get rid you him, but I did.
So I now everything has changed for me well at least inside. :)
So I'm saying yes I do kind of understand Jessica.
Jillieann
Quote from: JessicaR on January 30, 2011, 09:32:20 PM
JennX: "You can't selectively block them out at will."
I'm sorry but that statement just plain irritates me.
There's an obvious division among Transsexual people concerning the "Old self dying" issue but there always seems to be someone who feels the need to throw pebbles at those of us who have experienced a greater sensitivity when it comes to reconciling our lives before and after transition.
I am not delusional. I would never suggest that my experiences before transition have not shaped who I am today. I do, however, recall that my life before transition was pretty damn miserable and yes, I avoid thinking about it. It's difficult for me, sometimes, to even see "his" name on junk mail. I recognize that there are some who are more comfortable with being Trans and have never felt the pain that I have; I've spoken with a few who don't even mind the pronoun slips or the name issues... I wish it were that simple for me.
We're not blocking anything out... Just recognizing that putting the other identity to rest is necessary for us to provide closure and move on. It's not just a metaphor for some ... it's a very real phenomena for some of us. Please don't assume that everyone's path is the same.
I apologize if this seems like too much of a rant but it touched a nerve. JennX, I'm not attacking you personally, just the opinion you share with lots of others.
Sorry if I offended you likewise. However, in my humble opinion, the people we are today are a product of our life experiences. Good, bad, and ugly. All of them. On a certain level of consciousness a person may choose to "block out or selectively not remember" certain past events or rough times in their lives, however at another level of consciousness (whether you are aware of this or not) your current likes, dislikes, biases, opinions, and ideals have been impacted by your past. Many will claim otherwise, but I'm not one. I know for a fact that people can get over extremely traumatic experiences and heal themselves to a great degree. Time heals all wounds... almost. There are certain events and instances in a persons life they never really and truly 100% get over and or forget. And it is these certain moments in our past that do indeed shape who and what we are today. Your mileage may vary.
Not really. I don't feel like my female self was a different person, just a costume I had to wear.
that's ironic. While I feel my name is not my name, and the way people see me is not who I am, I don't feel my old self is dying, I feel I'm actually getting stronger.. Maybe it's that I am not as far along in transition as some of you. I have changed over the last few years. I am definitely more in line with who I am inside but to me "he" was always who I am. I look in the mirror and I am still somewhat surprised to see a female figure looking back at me because in my own mind that's not what I look like. Never was. As such I don't feel the "dying" part though coming out is pretty terrifying. My transition is for the most part physical (so far). I may have been socialized as a female and picked up some annoying mannerisms but the mental shift to "I'm a guy" happened a long time ago. My husband asked me if we could hold a funeral for the "female" me after full transition, and to be honest I was surprised by his question, I told him I'm still the same person I was, the person he knew long before anyone else did, throw me a party instead. ;)
My wife morned the lost of her husband and still get sad and blue at times.
I remind her of him but both mentally, the way I think, act and phyically I have changed.
Jillieann is not the same person as the (male name).
Sorry JennX, I respectfully disagree, it's more than just coming out of my shell.
Jillieann
Quote from: MsSaneJane on January 29, 2011, 05:35:35 PM
As I kinda start to really embrace my transition now, I really feel my male self starting to fade away. And I feel like that part of me is dying, as i embrace my female side.
I feel the same way in a lot of ways. I'm still pretending maleness, and I haven't yet come out to most of the people I know. Even so, I feel exactly as you describe.
I remember when I began college I had a dream where my true self appeared to me. She even appeared in physical form in the dream, although I doubt her features are what I will become. Her body didn't seem accurate, for some reason. But her personality struck a chord with me instantly. It was like she was telling me my future.
The more I change, the more I become like the character in that dream, at least in terms of my personality. I feel more calm, understanding, and caring. I still have a long way to go, but it does sort of feel like the male identity that I spent so many years forging is breaking apart slowly.
It's a humbling experience, because my old personality was all about gaining knowledge that would give me an advantage. Since I had so little joy as a male, my life had become a race for power. Now that I'm becoming more female, I'm rediscovering the fact that I actually do care about people other than myself, and I'm not as antisocial as I thought I was.
Quotebut there always seems to be someone who feels the need to throw pebbles at those of us who have experienced a greater sensitivity when it comes to reconciling our lives before and after transition.
Even if they do manage to throw my fat ass all I will do it hug ya :P
You can throw pebbles at me. She is cute :D
You can't kill something that was never really alive in the first place :laugh:
Honestly though, my past has always been hazy and half remembered for me, like it happened to someone else. I have no idea if that is a product of the dysphoria or just how I am. In truth I have transitioned many times in my life, from an awkward and introverted child into a young adult who at least wore the mask of happiness (I forget how many times in the past I've told friends that I could "think myself happy" a lie so comprehensive even i believed it). Each time I have grown as a person the old me, feels like it is shed like the skin of a snake and becomes hollow and lifeless, little more than a whispering ghost, rattling in the wind. I am transitioning now and already my life prior to this feel hazy and unreal, like a dream half remembered upon wakening. Yet still I know in my soul that the young woman who is emerging from the shell of my previous life and drying her wings in the sun in preparation to fly is still the person I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago and 20 years ago. It just seems like someone else's story now.
Quote from: Helena on January 31, 2011, 11:09:50 AM
You can't kill something that was never really alive in the first place :laugh:
Honestly though, my past has always been hazy and half remembered for me, like it happened to someone else. I have no idea if that is a product of the dysphoria or just how I am. In truth I have transitioned many times in my life, from an awkward and introverted child into a young adult who at least wore the mask of happiness (I forget how many times in the past I've told friends that I could "think myself happy" a lie so comprehensive even i believed it). Each time I have grown as a person the old me, feels like it is shed like the skin of a snake and becomes hollow and lifeless, little more than a whispering ghost, rattling in the wind. I am transitioning now and already my life prior to this feel hazy and unreal, like a dream half remembered upon wakening. Yet still I know in my soul that the young woman who is emerging from the shell of my previous life and drying her wings in the sun in preparation to fly is still the person I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago and 20 years ago. It just seems like someone else's story now.
So elegantly put, that the above passage describes how my previous life was to a certain degree. Thanks Helena.
Kind regards
Sarah B
I completely understand the desire, even the need, or natural tendency for pieces from the past to fade away and feel like a different person. I look back at my early years in college, when I was very religious, and very conservative and I shudder at some of the things I said and did - it really does feel like a totally different person compared to who I am today.
When it comes to transition I can definitely see how this also would be the case. There is a lifetime of "acting the boy part" because it's what I knew I was supposed to do. So I completely identify with the likelihood of certain aspects of my behaviors and attitudes from the past fading away - like many of my old behaviors and attitudes from my early church life have. I've gone through a couple of paradigm shifts in my life that have radically changed the way I think and relate to the world (non trans related) - so I can see how details from the old chapter can form a sort of dead aspect as if from another life.
By the same token though there are things that are consistent about me that I've brought forward, even from childhood to today. My sense of humor, the personal satisfaction I get in being a "helper", and my interest in philosophy to name just a few.
Actually, the idea that my future self might be so radically different from my past that it feels like a dead person makes me worry a little about myself. Maybe I'm reading more into these comments than I should, or taking this the wrong way. Like, is it normal for a trans person like me to feel like I'll be the same spirit/soul after transition? Certainly I can easily say I look forward to having as much of the "male" baggage that I've had to carry my whole life be lessened or removed, but I also realize that tied up in my past as a "boy" is a bunch of wonderful memories with beautiful people.
It's not easy for me to think of transition as death when I think of all the people who have helped sustain me through life. I have so much gratitude for those and the memories we share. I don't hate my life (I've learned to even accept some of the pain as part of my journey.) I really only would change one thing if I could from my past - my gender. But just because I wasn't the right gender doesn't make me resent my past for some reason. Is this normal?
I like what Helena said, I can identify with that. And I think others have said they experience many positive memories from the past, but sort of remember themselves as the "correct" gender? Maybe I'm taking this all the wrong way and everything is fine :)
I have a beautiful wife 3 great kids and 4 wonderful grandchildren that mean the world to me.
I still have my parents and they are good people.
Like you Madelyn I would not change the pass, but that's because of them.
And yes I am the sum of all that has happen to me in my life and more.
But we never stay the same unless we are died.
We continually evolving changing.
But the changes of mind and body are accelerated and I do notice those changes now.
I do like Helena's shell analogy. It is a good way of explaining are ever changing selfs.
Jillieann
I don't actually have a sense of any of my 'old self' dying; the biggest difference is a reduction in anger and hatred. I was such an angry, hatey, depressing curmudgeon - and people noticed the huge shift in demeanor after I transitioned.
Otherwise though, I'm pretty much the same person.
Quote from: Madelyn on January 31, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
By the same token though there are things that are consistent about me that I've brought forward, even from childhood to today. My sense of humor, the personal satisfaction I get in being a "helper", and my interest in philosophy to name just a few.
Actually, the idea that my future self might be so radically different from my past that it feels like a dead person makes me worry a little about myself. Maybe I'm reading more into these comments than I should, or taking this the wrong way. Like, is it normal for a trans person like me to feel like I'll be the same spirit/soul after transition? Certainly I can easily say I look forward to having as much of the "male" baggage that I've had to carry my whole life be lessened or removed, but I also realize that tied up in my past as a "boy" is a bunch of wonderful memories with beautiful people.
It's not easy for me to think of transition as death when I think of all the people who have helped sustain me through life. I have so much gratitude for those and the memories we share. I don't hate my life (I've learned to even accept some of the pain as part of my journey.) I really only would change one thing if I could from my past - my gender. But just because I wasn't the right gender doesn't make me resent my past for some reason. Is this normal?
I agree 100% and feel the same way. Totally normal in my book.
Quote from: Caitj on January 31, 2011, 05:14:02 PM
I don't actually have a sense of any of my 'old self' dying; the biggest difference is a reduction in anger and hatred. I was such an angry, hatey, depressing curmudgeon - and people noticed the huge shift in demeanor after I transitioned.
Otherwise though, I'm pretty much the same person.
+100000
I definitely can relate to the reduction in general anger, the degree to which I get angry is much lower, it takes a whole bunch more to get me to that point, greatly increased tolerance, and the depression is gone as well. However, I'm pretty much the same person as well. I hated chocolate before, I still do today. I like to make people laugh, and still do today. Anytime I hear the words "dying, kill off, do away with" etc in response to the male persona prior to transitioning, it makes me think there are some other issues at play here like self-hatred, low self-esteem, and or some other deeper bigger issues going on, that if not addressed, will still indeed be present post transition. HRT, FFS, and or GRS don't cure all the problems in the world... just one or two really specific ones.
BTW I wasn't trying to say anyone here doesn't have the right to feel differently I was just giving my own point of view.. (please don't make me catch Pebbles.. it's not nice to throw cute girls at idiot boys.. wait.. umm.. nm... *g*)
"it makes me think there are some other issues at play here like self-hatred, low self-esteem, and or some other deeper bigger issues going on, that if not addressed, will still indeed be present post transition."
I'm going to stop following this thread because statements like this are making me angry and I'm going to say something I'll regret.
Quote from: JessicaR on January 31, 2011, 11:31:34 PM
"it makes me think there are some other issues at play here like self-hatred, low self-esteem, and or some other deeper bigger issues going on, that if not addressed, will still indeed be present post transition."
I'm going to stop following this thread because statements like this are making me angry and I'm going to say something I'll regret.
I think there is some validity in that statement.
I'm concerned about this talk of the 'old self' as a different person, as though they had two personalities inside them (the male and the female) and the male personality let the female one become dominant. If true, that's a form of dissociative identity disorder and should be treated before someone transitions, as it's not GID and is potentially curable with psychotherapy or drugs.
IMO, it would be dangerous to let someone with DID transition, as the 'host' identity may not wish to transition, undergo irreversible surgeries and may become dominant again some time in the future.
That's why I think people should be clear that they haven't turned into another person entirely, as that suggests some form of psychological issue and not GID.
But most of the time I think the whole 'dying' and 'killing off' is people being a little overly dramatic with regards to leaving their old life behind and trying to bury any residual vestiges of their previous gender and it's not DID :)
I think for many it's a symbolic, almost ritualistic act of destroying who they used to be in order to be who they
want to be, which is fine and not unhealthy at all (unless it becomes and obsession to erase absolutely
everything).
The fem side of me died when I had a part of my physically die inside [strangulated intestines xD fun stuff] but essentially, after that, that was when I thought 'you know what, I'm not going to ignore who I really am anymore', and so 'Cheryl' died on the operating table. Aeron was born out of that. And here I am now. I look at old photos and see a ghost. I may be pre-t/op, but she still doesn't look anything like me anymore. Its like my body also decided to change itself since then. I will stress though, that this was not really like 2 different people as such, just the character I used to have to play in society. Only in recent years has the REAL me come out to be himself.