Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I hope someone will correct me on this...I recently heard that HBS, the syndrom part,has been changed to intersex classification. This would mean that instead of being a physcological classification it is now being thought of as medical classification. If this is true than a huge, huge change has occurred and may open the doors for unbiased medical treatment and if I am not mistaken also to the insurance industry for insurance payments. I am throwing this out to everyone so that we may get the truth. Jolene

ya

Well, I may be just trying to validate my transsexuality, but I think the mind/body divide isn't such a strong divide.

There is good evidence that what causes transsexuality is developmental differences in the brain that happen pre-natally. ie: we have a male brain and female body (or other way round for the MtF's).

Intersex means having some parts male and some female. What body part is more important than the brain? If the brain is male and the body is female, seems to me you got some body parts male and some female.

No determinative proof for any of this. But if you think, depression was considered a "mental" illness not long ago. It's now been shown that most depressions are physical, and have to do with brain chemistry. I wouldn't be surprised if transsexuality had a similar medical cause.

I don't really care either way though because I yam what I yam. I just don't think the boundaries between intersex and trans are quite that clear.

Dennis

;)

While there are definite biological indicators that dictate physical sex development and gendered behavior, there is nothing conclusive yet to indicate that transsexualism is an intersex condition at this point in time.  MOF, they are still not sure of all of the biology that goes into the physical development yet.  Further research is needed and will hopefully one day be funded.

And no, do not expect transsexualism to be delisted from the DSM anytime soon.

The automatic quote function doesn't work properly, so I'll try to do it manually. ;)


Have you ever read: A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality, by J.-N. Zhou, M.A. Hofman, L.J. Gooren and D.F. Swaab? (Published i "Nature" 1997)

The same scientific team, from The Netherlands has also done several works of newer date.

I saw the definitions you mentioned, but how old are these? I couln't find any date, only a note who says:
"Extract Adapted From The Beaumont Trust Information Leaflet "

I also tried to validate the text on:
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/body/gen_intersex.html (http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/body/gen_intersex.html)

But I found this date in the bottom of the text.
(April 2004, resources updated January 2005)

The theory about HBS, is from a newer date, probably late 2005.

Some scientists already says that transexuality is a variation of intersex. That's why I, and a lot of others, say we need a new name for this condition. Why not use the name: "Harry Benjamin", who spend most of his life working for a better understanding of transsexualism? Suddenly we have a chance to get a new description witout the uggly word "Trans".

;)

Dear Katia,

I'll try to find it quickly. :)

But you can find a lot of further info right here: http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/links.html (http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/links.html)

Here is a newer work from the same team I mentioned before: http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/pdf/brainsex1.pdf (http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/pdf/brainsex1.pdf)

I'm with Dennis on this one. I believe my condition is a natural one most likely genetic. I don't believe how I was raised would make me female quite conversely it would and did make me avoid being female. I am the oldest so no influence from older siblings. My younger brother was the one my parents thought would be a girl. My gender identity has to come from somewhere and the most logical conclusion IMO is genetic. You can say that's trying to validate you can say there is no proof but I don't need validation I don't need proof. I know who I am it would be nice if the medical community knew why but I don't need the approval of the medical community to know myself.

Your definition of Transsexualism is a symptom as such it does not exclude a biological cause.

Since I can't use my own photo inh the profile yet, i'll try to put one here:


As I told in another conference, I'm an 62 yrs old Danish woman, who got her affirmation on the 18 of January 2005, almost 2 yrs ago.

I'm still happy, and happy to be a girl/woman. :)

thank you for the links, sophie. 

Hi Sophie-The reason I started this string is to bring to the attention of all that we all know that this is a genetic condition. Genetics is science-the medical community is science. When our condition IS listed in the DSM it is a legal definition that insurance companies use in paying for medical procedures. This will open the door for us to become what we have been all our lives, to fufill our dreams at a reasonable cost. I also agree that trans is an ugly word. We are not transexual, we are not trransgender, we are not trans anything. We were genetically born in the wrong body and it's about time that the medical community realized this and correct this genetic defect. Love to you all and especially to Harry Benjamin.

Dear Nikki.

I don't need proof either, but I probably need an explanation. Mostly because mankind is curious.

I am a woman irrespective of HBS or transsexuality. :)

But I really welcome the opportunity to find and use another word instead of "Trans".

Here in Denmark this constallation of words has another meaning, because transsexuality in Danish are "Transseksuel". The end of the word lead the thoughts to sexual behavior. The first part of the word, still has an uggly taste for me and many others, because "Trans" nearly is a term of abuse.

I think the word'trans' to the lay person cojures up visions of pornograghy. WE are not about porn. This is for that segment of society that needs it, we don't. We are a very special group of society,more thoughtful,more introspective and generally more intelligent. We just want to live our lives,just as anyone does, in a society of acceptance and anythinf that helps toward this goal is beneficial. Jolene

Quote from: Jolene4ever on January 13, 2007, 05:35:06 AMWe are not transexual, we are not trransgender, we are not trans anything. We were genetically born in the wrong body and it's about time that the medical community realized this and correct this genetic defect.

I think those of us that have had GRS could be fairly described as transsexual because their sex(body) has been changed. But transsexual to me describes a treatment for a problem(namely for me this male body) but doesn't describe the condition of having the wrong body.

Quote from: Sophie_F on January 13, 2007, 05:40:24 AM
Dear Nikki.

I don't need proof either, but I probably need an explanation. Mostly because mankind is curious.

I am a woman irrespective of HBS or transsexuality. :)

I'd like an explanation but don't need one except as it helps me receive the treatment I need. In fact I think when they do start finding the reasons behind our condition it will initially cause more problems than it solves. Human sexuality is very complex I'd be amazed if there is one single cause that applies to all of us.  When they find the first cause I expect alot of girls will test negative. That will probably result in alot of girls having trouble getting the treatment they need as they are told you tested negative and they say they don't care find more causes because I know I'm a woman.

Quote from: Sophie_F on January 13, 2007, 05:40:24 AMHere in Denmark this constallation of words has another meaning, because transsexuality in Danish are "Transseksuel". The end of the word lead the thoughts to sexual behavior. The first part of the word, still has an uggly taste for me and many others, because "Trans" nearly is a term of abuse.

I don't think the meaning is any better in English, nor does it accurately describe our condition only our treatment.

Dear Nikki.

Since I still cant use the "Quote" button, i may try do do it in another way. :)

QuoteNikki says: I think those of us that have had GRS could be fairly described as transsexual because their sex(body) has been changed. But transsexual to me describes a treatment for a problem(namely for me this male body) but doesn't describe the condition of having the wrong body.

As it is impossble to alter the brain sex, we have to do something else. Therefore the body must be altered to match the brain. In the HBS terminology it is called SAS = Sex Affirmation Surgery. That's why I say I got my affirmation instead of "reassignment". I still welcome, if the phrase "Transsexual" could be changed into another term. HBS is good enough for me. :)

If you want to discuss HBS with pople who has agreed to this term, I'm sure you are welcome here:
http://xsorbit32.com/users5/harrybenjaminsyndrome/index.php (http://xsorbit32.com/users5/harrybenjaminsyndrome/index.php)

. In fact I think when they do start finding the reasons behind our condition it will initially cause more problems than it solves.
.
Hi Nikki-I agree that it will initially cause more problems but we have to start, if not for us than for those that come after.

Hi Jolene

Among other things you wrote:

Quote. In fact I think when they do start finding the reasons behind our condition it will initially cause more problems than it solves.

Some scientifics, already have a theory about the reason. On another forum I wrote this:

I maybe have an answer.....

In the first 12-13 weeks of pregnancy, all embryos are female, in the brain too.
If a pregnant woman are extremely stressed in the 12-13 weeks of pregnancy, her stresshormone Adrenaline can be too high. The theory says that, the high level of adrenaline disturbs the hormone system in the embryo. If the embryo has an XY chromosome, it will normally be a boy, with a male brain, because a kind of unripe testosterone starts a process where the sexual glands goes from the abdominal cavity to the place where testes normally are placed. A penis will be created, instead of a clitoris.
But because of stress hormone, the brain will still be a female brain.

The rest of the story we all know. 

How it works the other way, I don't know, for now.... but I'm still looking for an explanation.

A couple of years before my mother died, I'd ask her "What happend when you was 12-13 weeks in your pregnancy? She answered: I was forced to merry your father!

Hugs to all

Quote from: Sophie Schröder on January 13, 2007, 04:49:19 PM


A couple of years before my mother died, I'd ask her "What happend when you was 12-13 weeks in your pregnancy? She answered: I was forced to merry your father!

Hi Sophie,
This is so weird. My mother was forced to marry my father in her 12th week of pregnancy also. Could be just a coincidence but it makes you wonder.
I've been involved in a HBS site for a couple of months now. (the same one you put up the link to) The more that I learn about it, the more sense it makes. Anyone who feels that they are HBS should check it out.
Thanks for helping get the word out on this.

Hugs,

MaryEllen  :)

I am really not sure if they are related or not.  I nrealize that for myself it goes far beyond the brain and I have physical evidence that can be seen with the eye that my body was never completely male.  I have not been tested for being IS yet, but if I am tested and the results are that I'm not, then I'll be happy that I will only have a standard transition, but still confused about the physical indicators.  Even though I suspect I am IS, I still only refer to myself as a transsexual and will continue to do so until I can prove that I am IS by tests.  I don't see the link as being a justification for transitioning, because I am going to transition regardless and I feel equally as entitled to either way.

Melissa

Dear Melissa.

You wrote:

QuoteRe: Harry Benjamin Syndrom or Intersex? « Reply #19 on: Today at 03:17:30  (//http://Re:%20Harry%20Benjamin%20Syndrom%20or%20Intersex?%20%C2%AB%20Reply%20#19%20on:%20Today%20at%2003:17:30) »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though I suspect I am IS, I still only refer to myself as a transsexual and will continue to do so until I can prove that I am IS by tests.  I don't see the link as being a justification for transitioning, because I am going to transition regardless and I feel equally as entitled to either way.

Melissa

I'm afraid you'll have to wait for a loooong time to prove this :) 

But it was exactly what I did, until I was convinced, in the middle of last year. It was when I, for the first time, read about HBS. I also realized that, it is not yet possible to prove IS by a test, because you'll have the normal XY chromosomes. The Dutch discovery, late in the 90'es, has already convinced me, it was inborn. Do I have to tell, I really believe in HBS? :)

Another ting is, now we also have a fantastic opportunity, to left that uggly "T" word behind us. Furthermore we now can dissociate us from the theory, som TV's use: "TV and TS are two of a kind."
I never really felt like a TV, but in one week only I believed I was one. :'( It was until a gynaecologist told me the truth. It was the same gynaecologist, who gave me prescription to my first Estrogene pills, late in 2001. 4 years later, I went to Thailand, to affirm my sex.

Today, almost two year after my affirmation, I'm a very happy person, opposite what I was before 2001. And I'm happy to be at woman.

Quote from: Sophie Schröder on January 15, 2007, 02:33:38 AM
I'm afraid you'll have to wait for a loooong time to prove this :) 

But it was exactly what I did, until I was convinced, in the middle of last year. It was when I, for the first time, read about HBS. I also realized that, it is not yet possible to prove IS by a test, because you'll have the normal XY chromosomes. The Dutch discovery, late in the 90'es, has already convinced me, it was inborn. Do I have to tell, I really believe in HBS? :)

Oh really?  I was under the impression they had current test to test chromosomes and the ability to scan your internal organs.  I was also under the impression a doctor could actually examine genitals.  Why are you so convinced I'm XY?  You haven't seen my genitals.  So I guess it's normal to have a micropenis and scrotal-labia fusing?  Interesting.  I guess that clears everything up.

Melissa

Hi Melissa.

I really doesn't mean it help anyone to be ironical.

Of course doctors can do all those thing, but a person who call herself "transsexual" is very often persons born with a womans brain and a mans body. (Approx 75% MtF or HBS Females) Those will normally also have XY chromosomes.

I will, among others, insist this is a sort of IS. But not as other intersexed people, where the sexual gland and the sexual organs is deformed or malformated.

You are right, I haven't seen your genitals, unless I'm much mistaken, I saw somewhere you already has a SRS/SAS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Your homepage: http://melissagirl.com (http://melissagirl.com), tells nothing about you are ordinary IS :)

Wrong guess, it's not normal to have a micropenis and scrotal-labia fusing.

I have not has SRS or SAS yet.  I am only 6 months into my fulltime and it hasn't even been a year that I've been on hormones.  I have been going down the path of a typical TS.  Now I do have several posts on this forum in regards to my "evidence" and you are right in that I never talked about it on my website.  The reason being is I didn't want to jump to conclusions until I had some kind of proof and if my body was quite normal for a male to begin with, I would have no questions about me only being TS.  I don't feel like one or the other is better, other than TS being more common and getting treatment for such seems easier.  Anyhow, I have a doctor appointment on Wednesday and I was going to discuss it with her again (I already had before, but I've discovered more things since).

Melissa

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines 'syndrom' as "a group of signs or symtoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality."  This is why we have to get rid of the term syndrom. We are NOT abnormal. We have a genetic birth defect that must be corrected and the medical and insurance industries has to acknowlege this. I will also transition any way I can and if I can have the surgery, I will at the drop of a hat. But for the thousands who can't afford the process or are stuck with a hypocritical medical community we have to change this kind of thinking. Love Jolene

I tend to think that ->-bleeped-<- is more Intersex than not; I too am the oldest son of 3 boys and never had a sister until my Dad remarried when I was about 14 years old.  I had be struggling with my gender issues as long as I can recall, like many of us here.  I was raised as a true outdoorsman and I still enjoy many of the actives today, and any time my dad or step mom discovered my stash of goodies I was beaten, not spanked, beaten from head to toe where ever & what ever my dad could hit.  His thinking was that he was going to beat it out of me, it didn't work & I haven't read anything that has showed me that method does work.  I have read several studies that the opinion of the doctor was that ->-bleeped-<- is a form of Intersex based on the biological make up of our brains.

Quote from: Dennis on January 11, 2007, 02:28:04 AM


There is good evidence that what causes transsexuality is developmental differences in the brain that happen pre-natally. ie: we have a male brain and female body (or other way round for the MtF's).

Intersex means having some parts male and some female. What body part is more important than the brain? If the brain is male and the body is female, seems to me you got some body parts male and some female.

Dennis

I agree with Dennis here, there is substantial evidence (see Sophie's link or do a google search) that like intersexuality, transsexualism may be caused by genes; it has not been proven yet, but that does not mean that it cannot be possible.  In fact if you consider many syndromes, conditions of today (i.e, porphyria, cystic fibrosis, Tourette's syndrome, Usher syndrome, some types of colon cancer), you can see that many years ago, the medical community would have laughed at anyone who claimed that these conditions were genetic, well after so much research, it has been found that many conditions and types of syndromes (including the ones mentioned above) are indeed genetic; therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if one of these decades, the "real" causes for TSim surface. ;)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Hi Tinkerbell-she was also my favorite-besides the Hook. Nice to meet you.