...would you take it? I would not. I'd be scared that it would come back female.
No. Why pay for a test that will not change the method forward from here.
I'm poor enough as is.
Quote from: Alex201 on February 05, 2011, 05:53:43 PM
...would you take it? I would not. I'd be scared that it would come back female.
And why would it matter?
I wouldn't, though.
It wouldn't change how I feel, and nothing is 100% accurate.
If anyone claimed to know with 100% accuracy how or what I thought, they would be incredibly naive.
My thoughts entirely
I don't need a brain scan.
I'd take it, to prove once and for all that, no - I'm neither deluded, nor just going through a phase.
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 06:38:19 PM
Currently we can make you things and do things, in the no so far future you will be able to down load our thoughts and memories; we will be able to "meld minds" like the Vulcans but using a computer as a relay. Do not be frighted by this prospects, embrace te future
I'm sorry, but I can't read this post very well. I'm assuming you're saying it
is possible to effect/control thoughts and that we know how things happen in our thought process. Regardless, I'm going to rant a bit.
No, actually 'we' can't.
'We' could perhaps, remove parts of someones brain that is known to do something. Such as removing their ability to remember things and essentially mimic Clive Wearing, for example. However, this will cause more effects than the one originally intended to inflict. Nothing in a person's brain is "black and white". Anyone who
pretends to know how everything works is quite simply an idiot.
'We' can also give people neurotransmitters that is known to do one thing other another. Such is an example with anti-depressants. However, these always have effects other than what we want them to do. This is largely because different brain regions can use the neurotransmitter differently, and it is entirely possible for it to have side effects with other transmitters in the brain (in some cases due to varying proportions between them).
'We' can also give Electroconvulsive therapy. Sometimes it is used for severe depression / Bipolar disorder. Again, this may, or may not work. Even when it does work for an individual, for someone to say that it
only 'cured' them, would again, be a complete idiot.
Neurons (can) have thousands, even hundreds of thousands, of connections. You then have ~100 billion of these neurons in your brain. Even with our current understanding of the brain and it's conceptualized lobes and our evolving understanding of them, we can only scratch the surface in terms of understanding. Furthermore, these connections vary completely from person to person, so claiming you can know with perfect certainty is beyond ludicrous; even with the most advanced science.
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 06:39:53 PM
No you would not be dissapointed. The scan will show your brain to be male, that is why you have GID!!!
Correlation ≠ Causation.
While it has been found that there are differences in some portions of the brain between MTFs and Males in comparison to Females, this is hardly solid evidence for a cause of GID. For all 'we' know, these differences could be from effects they/we experience during development in life and not from GID itself. Furthermore there are bound to be males with female-like brains that do not have dysphoria (and vice-versa).
While a magical brain test for a 'brain sex' (which is a flawed concept in my opinion) would be a nice "I told ya so, nanana na!" it would be useless in practice.
What do you plan to do? Have everyone who claims to be trans get a test? What happens when they turn out to not have a 'trans-brain'? "Sorry, you can't transition. Best kill yourself"?
And what of the 'normal' population that is found to have to have a result saying they should have dysphoria? Do you say "huh, better start that transition bud"?
Such tests would be useless.
If you're androgynous, great.
If you're a 'normal' male, great
If you're a 'normal' female, great.
If you're MTF, great.
If you're FTM, great.
If ....
Just be who you truly are. If you don't really know, and are truly confused, do what you're the most comfortable with - even if it means bouncing between 'genders'. Be happy with yourself and fly the bird to everyone who says otherwise.
I wouldn't take it. What would be the point in letting someone else define me while I've struggled to break free from such things for years? When it comes to who I am, my thoughts matter more than those of any stranger or machine.
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 09:15:31 PM
Let me rephrase. We have machine that can change your thoughts, and make you do things; for example we can make you close your fist, or star singing a song, without touching you.
Making your body do something is completely different than changing thoughts.
Making someone close their fist could be done by electrical stimulation to the muscles involved in such an action. Singing, could also be done in a similar fashion but would be quite complicated.
I'm extremely interested in learning more about this machine. Largely, because I doubt it exists in the way you seem to describe it.
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 09:15:31 PM
You keep repeating something about whoever thing that he knows 100% is a idiot, well I do not neither anybody in sciences claims to now 100% of anything. The beauty of science is that for every question we found an answer there is usually a bunch of new questions.
I think we agree here. This truly is the beauty of science. However, far too often do we claim to know more than we actually do. We, as people, also have a tendency to claim we can do more than we actually can.
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 09:15:31 PM
The point of my posting was to tell you that there s a variety of genetic and/or imaging test that can reveal just how dimorphic your brain is You feel you do not want to know, that is fine with me. The analogy is to the genetic testing that is currently available to see what your racial composition is, or what kind of genetic disease you do carry in your DNA. Some people do not want to know or do not need to know, and I do respect that. However, the tests exist whether we like them or not.
In the case of GID the fact that advancement on neurobiology and genetics have proof beyond a doubt that GID has a biological origin benefits in so many ways. Legally and medically nobody can accuse of having made a "life style choice" Yes? We cab make the case for legal protection!
The problem is again, just because it has been found that some trans people have different brains, doesn't mean they
always do. It also does not mean that the brain differences
caused GID. It's entirely possible that GID arises from something else and then GID causes the brain differences.
Such scans would inevitably lead to oppression as well. Want legal protection and funding? Better hope that our brain imaging software tells me that you actually feel this way!
See the problem? The device may scan the brain, and find the differences in
some trans people, but not all. It pretends to be able to understand how a person truly feels.
They could test every trans person alive today, even if we/they all have this brain difference, it's far from proof that you need to have it to be trans. It's also in no possible way, any evidence (at all) that the brain differences cause GID.
In answer to the question posed by the original poster. Yes (though obviously it would depend on the price and any potential side effects).
To possess an objective indication of my true gender would be absolutely reassuring to me.
Quote from: caitlin_adams on February 05, 2011, 10:35:27 PM
In answer to the question posed by the original poster. Yes (though obviously it would depend on the price and any potential side effects).
To possess an objective indication of my true gender would be absolutely reassuring to me.
If the scan result wasn't to your liking, would you begin questioning yourself?
If not, why would it have reassured you if it was to your liking?
Brain scans are not like a blood test to check for Hepatitis.
There are I think 4 or 5 different studdies that show there is a difference in the brain, if we are M2F we will have the brain of a female and visa versa.
I would not take the scan but I love the fact that they are proving more and more each day that we are what we are and I think that most logical people will become more open minded because of this information. Aloha Nui Loa.
Jennie
Yes, but once again you're not saying anything regarding whether or not it's only people with this brain difference that have GID. You also don't specify whether or not some members of the population have this brain difference but do not have GID.
I do not argue against the idea that having a biological cause inevitably helps reduce the ability for people to paint us as perverts. However, saying that this one biological difference explains why everyone with GID has GID, is wrong. As is trying to say that it is the cause for GID when we can not know it for a fact.
If anything, the brain difference can be correlated to having GID. i.e: People with this brain difference have a tendency to have GID. (Or, people with GID have a tendency to have this brain difference) This says nothing about cause.
It can not be claimed that it is the cause for GID. Nor can it be claimed that if you have GID then you will always have this brain difference. Nor can it be used to say that if you have the brain difference, then you have GID (which I think you agree with).
I might. Not for myself, but just so that if someone tried to tell me I'm not trans I could prove them wrong.
I would be terribly nervous, but I would actually take the scan, provided it's reliable and affordable.
If it would come back Female then... I don't know exactly what I'd do. It would break my identity a bit and it may take a while for me to figure out what to do "next" after that...
If it would come back Male then I'd get the results on paper, laminate them, and put them on my wall.. I might even take a photocopy with me and show it to people as a part of educating them.
If there was a brain scan that was invented to show what gender your brain was would you take it?
Yes, provided it's reliable and affordable. Having said that, the question remains, what would be my response to the results? It does not matter what the hell the results are, male (disappointed) or female (ecstatic). I'm a female and that is the way it will be for the rest of my life.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: perlita85 on February 05, 2011, 06:38:19 PM
Currently we can make you things and do things, in the no so far future you will be able to down load our thoughts and memories; we will be able to "meld minds" like the Vulcans but using a computer as a relay. Do not be frighted by this prospects, embrace te future
aren't we
already downloading each others thoughts and memories through things like blogs, facebook, forums, IMs, etc...
the only difference would be we would be too lazy to read printed/typed words as we could simply connect and think...
but then again whats the point of a brain scan ... I am poor and I dont want to be poorer just for someone to tell me what I already know or believe about myself... besides it wouldn't matter in any case most people would simply tell or believe what they want to after the brain scan...
I don't need a brain scan for myself, but if the scan were affordable I would take it to help when dealing with other people.
I can only hope the result would be positive, but if not I would still transition. I just wouldn't bring up the scan when talking with others. If the scan did, in fact, come back positive then I would use it to aid my case when coming out. My family has already given me a lot of crap, so I'm sure something like this would be immense. Especially with logical engineer-types like my dad.
I would take the scan. The results ... hmmm
I am confidant I am female. I have known this since I was nine. If the scan said otherwise I would make them recheck. I would be very surprised to have a male result.
Based on my prior reaction to T I would not go back to being male. I would probably try and live androgynous and keep taking E.
I would probably break the scanner.
Quote from: Sylvester on February 06, 2011, 12:25:17 PM
I might. Not for myself, but just so that if someone tried to tell me I'm not trans I could prove them wrong.
This exactly. If it came back female, so what? That doesn't change how I feel. If it came back male, I could use it to prove that I'm male.
Quote from: Yakshini on February 10, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
This exactly. If it came back female, so what? That doesn't change how I feel. If it came back male, I could use it to prove that I'm male.
Yup same here.
Same for me
Quote from: Yakshini on February 10, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
This exactly. If it came back female, so what? That doesn't change how I feel. If it came back male, I could use it to prove that I'm male.
More likely if it came back female, you would be denied HRT or any other service and relegated back to the mentally ill portion of life. NO THANKS!
I like pretty pictures, I just might take it.
I wouldn't care too much about the outcome though. I'm pretty happy the way I am. And since it's a test, it also implies that there is an error-margin and confidence intervals etc. Knowing myself, I might again be the odd case out (the outlier).
Quote from: LordKAT on February 11, 2011, 01:11:38 AM
More likely if it came back female, you would be denied HRT or any other service and relegated back to the mentally ill portion of life. NO THANKS!
You know, if it proved that my problem was a mental illness, then maybe they could fix that, and I could live happily ever after...
Yes, it'd freak me the ->-bleeped-<- out for a while, but the point of diagnosis IS NOT to tag you as crazy, it's to identify the problem so that it's easier to fix it.
The only way to correct a problem is to first identify the problem. If the problem is a psychological delusion then.. maybe anti-psychotics would be all it takes to make my life better.
I don't know, it seems easier than surgeries and needles and hormones in oil and so on.
I would take it because I would be curious. I actually have a picture of my brain, don't know how to analyze it though.
Personally, I couldn't care less what a brain scan says. Being a mother and a wife, my life proves more than anything that I'm female. I don't need a brain scan to tell me what I already know.
I think you will find that what such a test will show is that there are a range of different aspects of the brain which can be "male" like or "female" like and most people will have a complicated mixture of both in the same brain.
So you could have a male like way of thinking, but a female like set of emotions, or a female like body image, and a male like sexuality. In other words different parts of the brain may resemble one gender extreme or the other, and the combined effect will be that vast range of human personalities that we seen in real life. My mother, for example was very androgyne like in her practical outlook and quite forceful personality, but she had no desire to alter her body.
That means that this is unlikely to be a simple yes/no answer. What it will do instead is help to show which areas of your identity are likely to be affected. For me it was mainly about my physical body image.
The good news is that such tests are indeed on their way, and yes I would take them because I am confident of the results, and I believe they might have made my path to SRS easier.
I'd be curious and would try it but It wouldn't stop me if it came out male unless people can somehow suggest what I might have instead and an alternative treatment option to try because my behavior prior to transition was clearly not normal.
normal stable people don't try and kill themselves or self harm for 9 years. like a friend of mine who is bipolar but she dose quite well on anti-schizophrenia medication.