changing ones sex gives me alot of time to think about these kinds of things. i used to think it was harder to be a male when i had to live as one, but i really only thought it was easier to live as female because i knew that's what i was. now that i'm living as female, i'm starting to see it's not that easy. i'm starting to think it might be just as hard as living as a male, if not harder.
I've thought about this as well.
In the early 80s, I spent about 3 months wandering around parts of Europe, living out of a tent and taking jobs where I could find them. I met girls doing the same, but they were always in pairs or more. I did think that I might have some problems if I were a girl, alone, wandeing around. But that could happen anyway really.
I suppose it depends upon how preoccupied you are with passing. Seems to me, if I were to be continually trying to think like a girl, I'd probably find all sorts of problems. But If I just think like me and take others for what they are, I hope I can forget what I was.
I've been hit upon by men a few times. Needless to say, I wasn't interested. But I would imagine that a girl, on her own, might be hit upon a bit more often.
What sort of situations are you thinking of SpaceyGirl?
This sort of question is impossible to answer because everyone has baggage regarding difficulties and their gender or sex.
I could say it's harder to be female because in the united states, they are still only paid $.70 for every dollar a male is paid. In some ways, they are still treated below males.
But at the same time, I could say it is more difficult to be a man simply because often women are given things that they want/need because they are women (reverse sexism), and men must work for everything they want.
These are both generalizations. Just like any answer to this question would be.
Quote from: spacial on February 27, 2011, 06:11:39 PM
I've thought about this as well.
In the early 80s, I spent about 3 months wandering around parts of Europe, living out of a tent and taking jobs where I could find them. I met girls doing the same, but they were always in pairs or more. I did think that I might have some problems if I were a girl, alone, wandeing around. But that could happen anyway really.
I suppose it depends upon how preoccupied you are with passing. Seems to me, if I were to be continually trying to think like a girl, I'd probably find all sorts of problems. But If I just think like me and take others for what they are, I hope I can forget what I was.
I've been hit upon by men a few times. Needless to say, I wasn't interested. But I would imagine that a girl, on her own, might be hit upon a bit more often.
What sort of situations are you thinking of SpaceyGirl?
i'm thinking of things like appearance, amount of respect, and then alot of social expectations. expectations like " a real woman should be married by now." "what kind of woman are you if you don't give birth?"
(my opinion as an outsider only)
I think research is fairly clear on male privilege existing in western cultures. Of course it probably depends on the exact thing you are interested in doing - it's probably easier to be an elementary school teacher or nurse as a woman, for instance, although I'd bet you have less chance of job advancement and get paid less if you are a woman.
Of course TG people will lack the privilege of a cis-male in many cases, and often lack the privilege of even a cis-female, regardless of their gender.
But I suspect the hardest place to be is where you have to pretend to be something you aren't.
Quote from: SpaceyGirl on February 27, 2011, 09:45:29 PM
i'm thinking of things like appearance, amount of respect, and then alot of social expectations. expectations like " a real woman should be married by now." "what kind of woman are you if you don't give birth?"
Well, men have our share of social expectations too:
"Real men don't cry" (crying is only prohibited for women in a professional context)
"Real men drink beer" (women are encouraged to have their own tastes in food/drink, but men are expected to like "manly" things)
"A man should be able to fix (insert mechanical device)" (women aren't expected to be experts at building/fixing everything)
It's also expected that we be able to lift heavy things, kill insects and vermin on demand, protect our families physically, provide for them economically, and a whole long list of other stuff. We're supposed to be emotionless automata who can kill a deer with our bare hands, clean it, bring it home for dinner, and then shift gears right into changing diapers and singing silly cartoon theme songs with our 2.3 kids.
Then if you're a gay man, you get a
lot of the same expectations that women have to live with: stay young-looking, stay thin, stay fit and healthy-looking, wear stylish/creative clothing, shave in strange places, wear makeup as appropriate, style your hair, appear nonthreatening (especially to children), show emotion...but do all of those things so well and so subtly that you can still pass as straight. Oh, and don't forget all of your male-gender-specific duties, like having a good job, being strong and muscular, protecting the women around you, eating as dictated by the Man Code when in public, fixing stuff, killing small creatures, and all that. And you'd better study up on your sports trivia/vocabulary, even if you hate watching sports, because it's your ticket to male bonding if you can't talk convincingly about women.
I'm not trying to diminish the things that are expected of women, but men have sexist expectations we have to deal with as well.
I think it is harder to be the gender you are not. The people born into the right gender seem to have a lot less issues in general and actually like being that way.
Those of us with bodies that just aren't right tend to think that the gender we are/were 'forced' to live as is the hardest.
Generally i think it's hard just being human most days.
It is easier being yourself. The rest is history.
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on February 28, 2011, 03:00:56 AM
It is easier being yourself. The rest is history.
Cindy
There you go putting my whole 2 paragraphs into one sentence.
It is easier being yourself. The rest is history.
See, I'd say just the opposite. The hardest thing to be is true to yourself, but once you make it there, the rest doesn't matter at all.
It may be hard to start with but like many things, it is easier with time and feels right. The hard thing has more to do with worry about how others see you I think.
Quote from: tekla on March 01, 2011, 03:28:13 AM
It is easier being yourself. The rest is history.
See, I'd say just the opposite. The hardest thing to be is true to yourself, but once you make it there, the rest doesn't matter at all.
Isn't that what I said?
Like Kyril said, its matters what social expectations you buy into. At the end of the day if you add up all the positives and negatives, males and females probably come out about even.
If its hard being a male, becuase you're not, you're on the right track. I wouldn't worry about the rest of it.
I think it's harder to be neither and just be me... :) Although I think it'd be easier to be female than male...
My answer is "no." Sure, the expected answer is "it's harder to be...." or about how both have different but similar/equal struggles. It's easy to be one or the other, it's hard to be both or neither.
I tell people that there are rewards and challenges for both sexes.
So it's really more subjective of a question. For me it was harder to try to be a man because I'm a woman. ;)
Quote from: Jerica on March 01, 2011, 04:00:35 PM
I tell people that there are rewards and challenges for both sexes.
So it's really more subjective of a question. For me it was harder to try to be a man because I'm a woman. ;)
Well said, I think its harder to live as somebody you are not, when you finally live in your right gender, its liberating and life a lot easier.
Its definitely a lot more expensive living as a woman, the list is endless, grooming, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, bags, purses and shoes, a woman can never never have too many shoes, its much cheaper being a guy, but getting more and more expensive being a woman, Im not complaining, thats what I signed up to, now theres a good excuse to go shopping, yet again!
Pauline
Quote from: pretty pauline on March 02, 2011, 04:22:44 PM
Well said, I think its harder to live as somebody you are not, when you finally live in your right gender, its liberating and life a lot easier.
Its definitely a lot more expensive living as a woman, the list is endless, grooming, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, bags, purses and shoes, a woman can never never have too many shoes, its much cheaper being a guy, but getting more and more expensive being a woman, Im not complaining, thats what I signed up to, now theres a good excuse to go shopping, yet again!
Pauline
But, there is no law (other then social expectations) that requires women to invest in "grooming, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, bags, purses and shoes".
Yeah, that one bothered me too, it seems (well a lot of stuff in here does really) like all of this is just one more commodity that can be bought and sold.
Quote from: LordKAT on February 28, 2011, 12:36:21 AM
I think it is harder to be the gender you are not. The people born into the right gender seem to have a lot less issues in general and actually like being that way.
Those of us with bodies that just aren't right tend to think that the gender we are/were 'forced' to live as is the hardest.
I dont agree with this, sure its hard to transition, but once you their life was easier for me not harder, like someone pushed the easy mode button on my life. As a guy it was stressful and screwed up a lot more. I just couldnt get being a guy down no matter how hard i tried. So, even though i was born in a male body, its easier for me to live as a female by magnitudes.
heh, i cant agree with what most people are saying. Sure individual experiences vary but society falls into statistical norms mostly and statistics state very easily, women have it harder just about everywhere you go.
In some countries we are second class citizens, men are always first class only race sometimes effects it in certain places.
Glass Ceilings
Wages
Length of time for us to get ready to go to an event and men to get ready are typically longer because of hair, makeup, and complexity of dress.
We spend more money on luxury items in order to complete with other women in society: For example cosmetics, haircare products, nail care, clothing, etc.. Men just buy a car, which they need anyway heh, with the spinny rims lol.
Also sometimes our opinions are disregarded
objectification of women by the media as sex objects
A lot more i care not to list....
Life for me as a woman is HARDER in the sense i have to do and pay for a lot more to do the same things i enjoyed living as a man. However, living is easier since i no longer have an internal struggle to deal with on a day to day basis. Life harder, living easy is what i have discovered.
To play devils advocate...
Men are expected to kill small things, ie bugs, and not be grossed out by it.
Men are expected to have a basic mechanical knowledge of all things, including being able to diagnose and repair them.
Men are expected to know how to operate all things mechanical especially cars and powertools.
Try asking for directions as a man.
Men can't express emotions, other then to hit something and "feel better about it"
In the male world there are clearly winners and losers, and you're either one or the other.
The "Alpha" isn't just for packs of dogs.
Boys are raised to believe that rubbing dirt on a wound heals all and what that doesn't fix can be cured by "walking it off"
The list goes on and on, but the point is its no better or worse, its just different. The social expectactions don't bother the cisgendered population, for the rest of us it hard enough not being true to yourself - even harder when you're trying to hit all the stereotypes so, "no one figures it out"
Quote from: Izumi on March 03, 2011, 11:29:17 AM
I dont agree with this, sure its hard to transition, but once you their life was easier for me not harder, like someone pushed the easy mode button on my life. As a guy it was stressful and screwed up a lot more. I just couldnt get being a guy down no matter how hard i tried. So, even though i was born in a male body, its easier for me to live as a female by magnitudes.
i think that's what he was trying to say. in being male, that was the gender you are not. or are you trying to say that it's easier to be female for you, but life overall is harder?
Quote from: Izumi on March 03, 2011, 11:29:17 AM
I dont agree with this, sure its hard to transition, but once you their life was easier for me not harder, like someone pushed the easy mode button on my life. As a guy it was stressful and screwed up a lot more. I just couldnt get being a guy down no matter how hard i tried. So, even though i was born in a male body, its easier for me to live as a female by magnitudes.
Your posting is actually agreeing with me, not disagreeing. My body is female but gender is male. Living as female is harder for me as it is the opposite gender. Transitioning made life much easier.
Your body is/was male buy your gender is female. Having female gender and having to live as male was harder for you as living as female was harder for me.
Quote from: Izumi on March 03, 2011, 11:36:25 AM
heh, i cant agree with what most people are saying. Sure individual experiences vary
Length of time for us to get ready to go to an event and men to get ready are typically longer because of hair, makeup, and complexity of dress.
We spend more money on luxury items in order to complete with other women in society: For example cosmetics, haircare products, nail care, clothing, etc.. Men just buy a car, which they need anyway heh, with the spinny rims lol.
Also sometimes our opinions are disregarded
objectification of women by the media as sex objects
A lot more i care not to list....
Life for me as a woman is HARDER in the sense i have to do and pay for a lot more to do the same things i enjoyed living as a man. However, living is easier since i no longer have an internal struggle to deal with on a day to day basis. Life harder, living easy is what i have discovered.
I have to say I agree with you Izumi, its just things I notice and experience since I transition, my Husband I think only has 3pairs of shoes, gets a cheap haircut maybe every 2months, if we go to an event and he just throws on a pair of casual jeans maybe an old jacket he has worn hundreds of times nobody even notices or remarks, my maintenance routine now as a woman is completely different, more pressure and more expensive, no cheap haircut for me, my hair maintenance alone costs a small fortune with volumizing shampoo and conditioner, hair color, highlights, volume spray , setting spray and tints and then theres skin care, nails and makeup,then the big decision on my outfit, does this purse match my shoes and dress, it can be stressful on a woman, but worth the effort when we get it right, when the man in my life tells me I look pretty and gorgeous, but its hard work and effort, it takes Hubby about 10mins or less to get ready, takes me at least an hour, Iv never got ready in less than that. Then after all my efforts we where out last Saturday night when I torn a very expensive pair of luxury tights getting out of a cab, lucky it was just above my hemline but I was conscious of it the whole night, I know some here will say ''heck whats the big deal'' well it is a big deal for me, because Im a woman, in spite of all that Iv said, I still love living my life as a woman, but it is hard sometimes, my Husband is a great support and does take care of me.
Pauline
Ftm, so a bit biased already, tbh i see the female life as being the hardest, this is from my own experience, but when i look at some female friends i know their lives seem great. I guess its just hard live in the wrong body. I know a lot of women who have expressed frustration with the injustices and discrimination that they face everyday, but at least one thing i have seen is they are at peace with their lives.
I have heard lots of bio guys online and IRL admitting a guy's life is easy, when asked what is the hardest thing about being a guy, some cant even come up with anything, others talk about something sexual. While on the other hand, with most females/girls its about biology, discrimination and life fustrations in general. That to me speaks volumes, but of course hardness/easiness in general depends on a lot of factors eg social class, ethnicity, geography, etc, gender is just one part of the equation.
Quote from: SpaceyGirl on February 27, 2011, 05:50:10 PM
changing ones sex gives me alot of time to think about these kinds of things. i used to think it was harder to be a male when i had to live as one, but i really only thought it was easier to live as female because i knew that's what i was. now that i'm living as female, i'm starting to see it's not that easy. i'm starting to think it might be just as hard as living as a male, if not harder.
For some of us, just living is hard, no matter what we live as.
For others they thrive not matter what they do.
What we need to do is measure ourself with ourself.
Did we find some productive benefits from transitioning!
For myself i got rid of that nasty testosterone that made my life hell so yes life is better for me compared to how i was before.
Quote from: SpaceyGirl on March 03, 2011, 12:49:54 PM
i think that's what he was trying to say. in being male, that was the gender you are not. or are you trying to say that it's easier to be female for you, but life overall is harder?
I was saying that life as a female is harder, all the external pressures and societal pressures. Never felt them as a guy.
However, living as a female is easy because my brain is designed to compete with other females in society not males. I also stopped fighting myself (my nature) making me more apt to deal with outside stresses.