Crazy Mom Lets 7-Year-Old Son Become a Girl (VIDEO)
Posted by Janelle Harris
on March 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM
http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/116944/crazy_mom_lets_her_7yearold (http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/116944/crazy_mom_lets_her_7yearold)
What if your 7-year-old son liked to wear sequined dresses, preferred to play with Barbies instead of WWE action figures, and wanted to be referred to by a girl's name instead of a boy's? Where would you stand? How would you feel?
Lisa Ling's new show, Our America, on the Oprah Winfrey Network, introduced the country to a first grader in "Transgender Child: A Parent's Difficult Choice." His parents named him Harry. But when Harry was 5, he decided he wanted to be called Hailey because he felt more like a girl than a boy. His mom and dad, not knowing quite what to do, indulged his request.
Now the child has completely taken on the identity of a little girl.
good on her knowing what she wanted that early, and good on her parents being as supportive as they are XD
on futher inspection, this article in incredibly negative about the family. they refer to the mom as crazy (no mention of father figure at all), as well as assuming someone doesnt know what gender they felt. i know if i at that age had had the freedom to express myself freely it wouldnt have taken me 19 years to make this desision,and almost left it too late for me to smoothly transition (still undergoing puberty.
Blocked here on copyright grounds.
i saw it by using a program that hides my country, ill try download and re-upload it for those of us outside the US.
At least the non-Jerry Springer press is showing this condition more these days. Back in the late 50's and early 60's when I grew up, this was unheard of. The children that had GID were taken to a therapist to evaluate and then try to steer them to their born sex. Most of us that had GID at the time stayed mum about it due to the parental and peer pressures at that time. I see quite a few of us on Susan's that lived through that era. I was taken to a therapist when I was still in elementary school. I was that skinny kid that others took advantage of and I didn't get along with others that well. I did not tell the therapist of my desire to be a girl though, she evidently didn't pick that up either. The pressures "to be a man" back then were too great to admit this to anyone, including God!
As with children such as Haley and Jazz, they are getting the better treatment for this condition than we had as adults. One of my therapists in the late 70's wanted me to exorcise this condition. However, the parents should not be too accomodating to this with their very young GID children. Certain rules should be set e.g, wearing the proper clothes at school, church and certain family functions. I mentioned "school" because some parochial schools and school districts still have no provision for crossdressing as a therapy for GID. These rules should be in place for the very young because some of them may change their mind. That change should be the the decision of that child, on his or her own and in their own time, and not be 'guided' nor cajoled into it!
A healing Joelene-
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 03, 2011, 02:32:55 PM
parents should not be too accomodating to this with their very young GID children. Certain rules should be set e.g, wearing the proper clothes at school, church and certain family functions. I mentioned "school" because some parochial schools and school districts still have no provision for crossdressing as a therapy for GID. These rules should be in place for the very young because some of them may change their mind. That change should be the the decision of that child, on his or her own and in their own time, and not be 'guided' nor cajoled into it!
A healing Joelene-
I question what you call proper clothes. If a child is born male and ID's as female, do you think the proper clothes involve a suit or a dress?
Proper clothes, that depends on the situation. There are some situations and people not accomodating to crossdressing and the birth sex of the child is known to those. Remember, I said this of the very young (birth-8, depending on physical and mental development), not the older child, society may have to put up with those. The young child's brain is still developing at a rapid rate and they are learning the rules of human society that will take them to the rest of their lives. The dress code is one of them. There are some companies abolishing casual Fridays and having a more rigid dress code with non-op crossdressers being amongst the first fired during layoffs, even when no bias can be proven in those cases. This is the world we now live in.
Joelene
I watched the show the other night. Aside from the fact that it trucks out the usual narrative on the transgendered child, Haley does appear to be a well adjusted normal girl. I don't see any problem with that. I think Jolene's approach is more appropriate to children like Princess Boy who do not have a fixed gender expression. Even if Haley changes her mind, if wearing a dress to school is how this child learns best then we have an obligation to support that.
As for the writer who proudly stated she allowed her child to dress herself (pick out her own clothes), I'd imagine she allows her daughter to wear jeans however gender variant that may be.
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 03, 2011, 03:30:33 PM
Proper clothes, that depends on the situation. There are some situations and people not accomodating to crossdressing and the birth sex of the child is known to those. Remember, I said this of the very young (birth-8, depending on physical and mental development), not the older child, society may have to put up with those. The young child's brain is still developing at a rapid rate and they are learning the rules of human society that will take them to the rest of their lives. The dress code is one of them. There are some companies abolishing casual Fridays and having a more rigid dress code with non-op crossdressers being amongst the first fired during layoffs, even when no bias can be proven in those cases. This is the world we now live in.
Joelene
You side stepped the question with a non answer. Practicing for political office?
@jolene9 when you talk about the young child needing rules about certain situations I must disagree. Thankfully when I was a child my mother decided to make a non issue of all this and allowed me pretty well complete freedom. The only result was a relatively early transition and me growing up with none of the hangups or other psychological issues that many transpeople have.
I've posted this in other threads
Making Girls and Boys: Inside the science of sex
Jane McCredie ,
9781742231006, New South, February 2011, 224pp, PB , 234x153mm
Availability: Plenty
Price: AUD$34.95 (AUD$31.77 ex-tax) NZD$44.95
Booksellers Discount Code: General
What is it that makes a person a boy or a girl? From our cradles to our graves, a pair of letters, either XX or XY, will define much of our lives. "It's a girl!" or "It's a boy!" will be the first label applied to us, the first thing said about who we are as an individual. For every person in every society, gender has a fundamental affect on what we choose, how we live, and how we think about the world and how the world sees us. Sex is one of the most powerfully defining concepts that we have.
Of course, we assume that we know what this gender thing is: boys are boys, girls are girls. Sex is fixed, biologically determined, simple. But what if it isn't?
As Jane McCredie moves from laboratories to café tables, trying to find out exactly what sex is, the picture becomes much more complicated. Evolutionary psychologists, trans-gendered people, children playing with trucks and dolls, hormone specialists – they all have different stories to tell about what makes us girls and boys. These stories force us to stop and ask, 'is it really so straightforward?' Are we all really just stamped out in blue and pink? Leading us on a remarkable exploration of the ground where biology and culture meet, intertwine and ultimately blur, this book examines the new science which is helping us answer these important questions. Showing that we are far from "opposite" sexes, Making Girls and Boys will challenge everything you thought you knew about men and women.
Since the youngster is 5 yrs old she would have identified with her gender for about 2 years.
I have no financial or any other input into this publication BTW. :laugh:
I'm also fascinated by two close colleagues who have had their first babies at about the same time, well 1 day difference. OK a scientific expt can't use a n=1 but. One is male one is female. OK they get dressed in little boy and little girl clothes but their nature to the world is totally different. Are we training 12 month olds to be boys and girls or is it totally natural. OK I and I think everyone else will say it's totally natural. So if a baby boy acts and responds as female, and a baby girl acts and responds as male; what do we do? And when do we do it? In hind site I can say I should have had SRS when I was born, OK I know I'm over the top, But when realistically do we make a call. I have a friend whose son wore and adored nail polish for years of his early life. He is definitely male. Do we seek council for boys who want to wear skirts and dresses, because their sisters do? Do we seek council for girls who want to pee standing up because her brothers do? This is a very difficult area. 'Normal' people ( I hate that as well, I am normal) never think about these issues. It's only later when you realise that you have been sexually mis-identified that these issues and ideas arise.
As many of you know, I think with my fingers. I'm happy to debate this topic. I'm particularly interested when people think when and why we should intervene in a childs' sexual versus gender outlook. Should we? If so what do we do?
At the risk of harping the same tune, I take the position, in the case of children, that it's about self expression.
If, allowing children to express their appearance differently from their gender norm, is going to make them confused and gay, then we would expect to see many more confused, gay women.
If this is only a problem for little boys, then perhaps we need to look at why little boys are so insecure with themselves that they need their gender enforced in a way that isn't necessary for little girls.
When I was small, I recall young girls being quite proud of being quite flattered with being tom boys. While a young boy being called a cissy was an insulting putdown. I rather liked the idea of being a cissy, though I didn't understand the modern conotation of course, but peer pressure meant I had to resist it.
I believe that the problem is more acute for young boys. They need their gender reinforced because society continues to view young boys as potential warriors. I don't accept that most young men want to or are capable of killing. They are forced into this role, by up bringing and the state.
More, competitivness is a personality trait. It seems to affect females as much as male. Competitive females are generally pushed back as being too pushy. (Women should be demuir and submissive). But many, most people, boys and girls, are not naturaly competitive. For many, it is a learnt behaviour. That is the source of so much disturbance among young adults, expecially substance abuse, especially alcohol.
Human beings by their nature are competitive. Boys are socialized to be more open about their competitiveness, but women's sports are not about cooperation. A fremeny is purely a woman's domain. Women climbing the corporate ladder are cutthroat with eachother (their competition). As much as boys are encouraged to be competitive, that same nature is trained out of girls.
School districts have an obligation (legally) to educate children in an environment in which they are capable of learning. There is a legal obligation to modify the school environment to adapt to a child's learning style. If a male bodied student needs to present as a girl at school and vice versa, the school has an obligation to create an enviroment in which that is possible. Accomodation may mean a private bathroom for the child and other such accomodations (being excused from gym class, etc), but the school has an obligation to educate all students, not just the gender normative ones.
I do think it should be viewed as a last resort, that it is a path to follow when all other interventions have failed.
If the child is adamant that they are a girl, at that age, and happy and secure, and the parents are coping ok, I think everyone else should just take a chill pill and relax.
If this is just a develpomental phase the child will pass through it, if it is not they have a head start on socialising as a girl, prior to puberty and HRT etc.
I understand that humans are comeptitive by nature. I should perhaps, have been clearer.
I was referring to the personality trait, where some people are particularly comeptitive while others less so. (Have to choose my words here. Being competitive is one of those traits that is often seens as being something to be proud of).
Having read the comments that followed the article, it was interesting again to witness an interesting fact. 90% of the negative posts were from those self identifying as Christian. They all used God and Bible verses as much of their basis of opinion. One woman even said that bullying and physical intimidation against this child in school should straighten 'him' out. Nice, huh? I believe many ignorant and sometimes religious parents/teachers look the other way to bullying and violence against LGBT kids. These parents, school board members and administrators believe that kids will 'correct' this misguided, gender confused child.
My question still stands-where can we send all of these bigoted parents? Which island in the middle of the ocean?
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 03, 2011, 02:32:55 PM
However, the parents should not be too accomodating to this with their very young GID children. Certain rules should be set e.g, wearing the proper clothes at school, church and certain family functions. I mentioned "school" because some parochial schools and school districts still have no provision for crossdressing as a therapy for GID. These rules should be in place for the very young because some of them may change their mind. That change should be the the decision of that child, on his or her own and in their own time, and not be 'guided' nor cajoled into it!
A healing Joelene-
It's Anti-Gender Expression Transsexual to the rescue.
The proper clothes for someone who is female identified are female clothes. Teaching a female identified child that male clothes are proper clothes is going to just make them think there is something wrong with being trans.
Juliekins-not my island thanks! Maybe just half way to an island in the middle of the Pacific. >:-)
Not my island :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: either
they're not welcome on my island either :P
if i had a little more freedom of gender expression maybe i wouldn't be in the pickle i am now ::)
good on the parents for allowing this child to chance to explore themself
Keep them off my island too.
muy suggestion, send them to the moon, with limited oxygen >:-)
Quote from: juliekins on March 04, 2011, 01:01:02 PM
My question still stands-where can we send all of these bigoted parents? Which island in the middle of the ocean?
One of the local columnists in the paper had a Christmas list of things that bothered him during the holidays. One of them was: "If your 5-year old boy wants a Barbie set, instead of GI Joe, it is not him that has the issues". Well said!
We must be open still to those parents that think their child must be guided in such a manner. Some do turn around their thinking as the child grows. Back in the time of Jesus, all the small children of both sexes did wear the same clothes, no differentiation. It had to do with the economics at that time, no fashion sense, except for the rich. The differentiation of dress came as the children got older and was according to the local laws and customs.
Remember, we're the ones on this island! We should be careful when judging people on raising their small children! It is and always will be one of the hottest subjects discussed. People have been killed over this subject.
My mom was a divorced, working mother of four. I got one of those nasty-grams from my fifth-grade teacher to take home for a parent-teacher conference on my 'conduct' in class. Well, I tried to throw away that note, but some rat in my class retrieved it and sent it home with my brother. She went to the conference (this was a Fri night) and came back home and I was expecting a double whup'n followed by a grounding. She said, "just go to bed". The next day, my mom had the aunts over for the usual coffee. She was almost in tears when she told them that my teacher wanted "Rubber-stamp children and (I) should be placed in Special-Ed". She said " All of my children are different and I DON'T RAISE RUBBER-STAMP CHILDREN and MY SON IS NOT A RETARD"! She was a conservative Republican and yet, she was progressive in raising us. We still had to dress up for church though. I was a model student with perfect attendance records since them. I knew that if I had a legitimate problem with any of my teachers, she would back me! I was the dyslexic (this condition was unknown until my last semester) C-average student that almost aced the 11th grade PSAT. Go figure.
Joelene.
Quote from: juliekins on March 04, 2011, 01:01:02 PM
My question still stands-where can we send all of these bigoted parents? Which island in the middle of the ocean?
If I understand correctly, there is an island in the middle of the lake of fire in hell that will gladly take them in >:-)
I think the supportive parents in the video are awesome...
The article definitely was poorly written by someone who is obviously a bit on the bigoted side of things themselves
As far as supportive parents, away from the media spotlight, they often privately admit they're hoping (expecting) its just a phase. I wonder if they're as supportive when conversations turn to puberty blockers and HRT?
Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
As far as supportive parents, away from the media spotlight, they often privately admit they're hoping (expecting) its just a phase. I wonder if they're as supportive when conversations turn to puberty blockers and HRT?
The parents will wonder and always will all the way to the grave. The puberty blockers are new and it's designed to give more time for decision.
Joelene
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 05, 2011, 05:43:11 PM
The parents will wonder and always will all the way to the grave.
I think that's just a tad overly broad. What happens when their happy, well adjusted post-op child thanks them for allow them to express themselves from such an early age. I'd certainly stop wondering at that point.
A poem that I read in college, and thought about often as I raised my children (by myself) puts it this way as far as parents and children go,
"You may house their bodies but not their souls
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow which you cannot
visit, even in your dreams"
(The Prophet, On Children, by Khalil Gibran)
This has always struck me as being VERY meaningful to the rearing of transgender children. Our souls are in a place where our parents or others cannot fully understand exists. If Haley's parents can keep this in mind, they will be content.
Both my Grandmother (aged 96) and my Mom (aged 62) told me this just before they passed away. They said that they worry about their grown children even if they were content with their situations and that was their job! Not broad enough, I suppose.
Joelene
Quote from: Vicky on March 05, 2011, 11:52:02 PM
"You may house their bodies but not their souls
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow which you cannot
visit, even in your dreams"
That is a great poem.
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 06, 2011, 12:09:43 AM
Both my Grandmother (aged 96) and my Mom (aged 62) told me this just before they passed away. They said that they worry about their grown children even if they were content with their situations and that was their job! Not broad enough, I suppose.
Joelene
Your original post cited a single reason (early transition) that would cause parents to worry. What you're now describing is just good parenting. Of course parents are going to worry about their grown children, even their (formerly) male bodied daughters and it has nothing to do with early transition and everything to do with them just being their children.