Tattoos are not stylish unless their in the right place. I see hundreds of tattoos everyday in my work-and I'm beginning to think people think about what they will mean in their future. GG's get them on their arms and wonder why they don't get the job they applied for. Tattoos on the face are definitely a no no to keep a job. Guys get them up and down their arms, necks, legs, heads because their into gangs. One guy thought he was being "cool" because he had a bear tattoo-ed on his chest. The Oso (bear) Mexican Gang beat him up for wearing their tat without iniatition. Wearing the wrong tattoo at the wrong place seen by the wrong gang affiliate could be deadly. Tats on the fingers and hands are places where gang members identify who they are. Tats don't come off without a lot of help. Gang members trying to leave the gangs have their tats physically removed with boxcutters which has made big bloody messes. And theres the risk of bigtime infection. Me-I don't want any tattos. I tell my subordinates don't get a tattoo. Sorry for being a downer but I've seen too many bad things -lost jobs, lost income, injuries,firsthand from the subject being taken too lightheartedly.
I have three tattoos, I have them where I can easily cover them with conventional clothing. Tattoos are stylish, in fact many career fields have more people with tattoos then people without. There just needs to be a little common sense, that's all...
I think it's one of those 'Your Mileage May Vary' things. Some people don't care if they have obvious tattoos, because they're planning on careers where they won't be judged based on piercings and tattoos. Some people don't have to worry as much about gang tattoos, because they live in an area with low gang violence. Some people just don't care at all. It really varies, I think.
Life is too complicated for there not to be unintended consequences from something as permanent as a tattoo.
I asked myself, is this something I will regret when I am old or if my situation changes. When I had mine done I was careful so that it could be covered up easily. At the time I had no idea I was going to transition and now I wish it would have been a little smaller.
A little forethought goes a long ways.
Tattoos can be easily covered up (depending on where they are) and a lot of people with good or even great jobs have tattoos. One of my teachers in high school had partial sleeves on both arms. I also know one fellow who runs an entertainment firm (they set up charity events, concerts, and celebrity events) and has a few tattoos. You can easily cover up tattoos on arms, and legs with clothes. Got a job interview? Wear long sleeves. Not all people that get a lot of tattoos are in gangs.
I'm actually looking into getting a new tattoo on my right calf. Camera related since I've been interested in film and cameras since I was 6. Still hasn't gone away.
And then there's also different cultures to take into account.
Tattoos do not cost you your job in Iceland.
Being a bad employee does.
-.-
I have 5 tattoos, 3 of which can be seen. The one on my neck gets the most attention since it's my namesake. The ones on my arm for my family and country/heritage have never been challenged. I've been with my company nearly 6 years and it's never been an issue. Now granted, these are ones I designed and ones that have meaning to me. Tattoos can be stylish if done well and if represent something more than just a pick off the wall.
I think this is truly dependent on the industry, the work place environment/culture. If it's a truly conservative place, then yes, tattoos may not be appropriate.
like hemlines any fad comes and goes, and the next generation of cool kids will find something else and the tat people will look like hippies at a punk rock show.
Quote from: tekla on March 03, 2011, 06:48:06 PM
like hemlines any fad comes and goes, and the next generation of cool kids will find something else and the tat people will look like hippies at a punk rock show.
Thing is.. not everyone gets a tattoo because it's a "fad". Some get it because it is important to the person they are (e.g., the one I got to remember my mom with).
I can assure you that the thousands of WWII Navy vets who went job hunting with their anchors and "Mom" tatoos on their forearms had no trouble finding work.
Um ok.
Quote from: Linus on March 03, 2011, 06:55:12 PM
Thing is.. not everyone gets a tattoo because it's a "fad". Some get it because it is important to the person they are (e.g., the one I got to remember my mom with).
I hate when people treat it like a fad, honestly. I've got two incredibly stupid ones but I'm so glad for them because they'll always remind me of two specific moments in time when things were absolutely perfect. My other four are all personal in some way.
I can assure you that the thousands of WWII Navy vets who went job hunting with their anchors and "Mom" tatoos on their forearms had no trouble finding work.
a) Fact is, lots of returning vets had trouble finding work, hence the GI Bill to take them out of the labor force for a bit
b) they had already done something that proved they were worth hiring in the first place.
Quote from: tekla on March 03, 2011, 06:48:06 PMthe next generation of cool kids will find something else and the tat people will look like hippies at a punk rock show.
I'm putting my money on scarification being the next big thing.
Like branding? That will separate the men from the boys.
Quote from: VeryGnawty on March 03, 2011, 09:37:07 PM
I'm putting my money on scarification being the next big thing.
Too late, it is already here. More often than I care to think about, I have seen people into the scar bit.
I personally don't like tattoos so I don't have them, but many people enjoy how they look. I do wonder if they will regret something in the future. I see teenage females for example with remarkably childish and silly tats on their legs, they like them now but in the future?
There should be enforced laws that minors are not allowed to be tattooed in any circumstance. When you see a 15-16 person with tats I do feel angry.
I did post a few years back (I think) of interviewing a young man for a job. He had love and hate tats on his knuckles and swastikas on his forearms, and neck. He seemed pleasant but his tats displayed an attitude that I was uncomfortable with, particularly since the job involved working with female staff, and without being sexist, I was concerned that his attitude would not be right.
As Tekla pointed out it is a fad. I think maybe coming out of cable shows such as LA Ink etc. While I appreciate the artwork involved, and the pain tolerance :laugh: the person has, the large 'arty' tattoos are probably unable to be removed by any laser technology currently available, so if someone wants them removed they would be looking at skin grafts, and big ones at that.
But people do weird stuff without thinking through the consequences.
JMO
Cindy
I think that, like pretty much anything else, if you want to know someone's motive for having a tattoo you'd have to ask them. Assumptions based on our own likes and dislikes are dubious and even potentially harmful (as anyone who's been on the receiving end of phobia-fueled behavior will know). As an example, who knows, maybe the guy with the swastika tattoos wanted the job because he was desperate to afford to have them removed.
I have two tattoos I'm really glad to have, and one that was an "impulse buy" that's a bit embarrassing and which is worth keeping just to remind me never to do that again! I would like a pair of otters on my forearms, and I'm aware that this would result in some people relating to me on a "he's got tattoos on his arms, that implies xyz" basis. Time will tell whether I care enough either way.
And I don't mind if people don't like my tattoos! I can't stand eyebrow piercings, myself (they make me think of stapled repair jobs), but I try to rise above this in the company of nice people who have them :).
What other people do with their bodies is their own business ( sound familiar?), lots of the women I work with- highly paid and qualified scientists, have tattoos. If you are Maori I would sort of expect you to have them in fact.
Personally I wouldn't though, because I am of an age when I can remember meeting people who recieved them courtesy of a concentration camp. So the thought makes me extremely uncomfortable.
Quote from: CindyJames on March 04, 2011, 01:48:36 AM
I personally don't like tattoos so I don't have them, but many people enjoy how they look. I do wonder if they will regret something in the future. I see teenage females for example with remarkably childish and silly tats on their legs, they like them now but in the future?
There should be enforced laws that minors are not allowed to be tattooed in any circumstance. When you see a 15-16 person with tats I do feel angry.
As Tekla pointed out it is a fad. I think maybe coming out of cable shows such as LA Ink etc. While I appreciate the artwork involved, and the pain tolerance :laugh: the person has, the large 'arty' tattoos are probably unable to be removed by any laser technology currently available, so if someone wants them removed they would be looking at skin grafts, and big ones at that.
AFIK, a minor needs parental permission to get a tattoo, even then a tattoo artist can still choose not to tattoo minors. Some states, like Georgia for example, make it illegal to tattoo a minor regardless. I don't know about it being a "fad", its been around since biblical times its just gotten more visibility lately. I've had my tattoos for about 15 years, that seems to be a little long to be a fad if nothing else. As I understand it laser technology will remove tattoos quite effectively, its just very expensive.
In my case I knew for about 10 years what I wanted for my first tattoo before I got it. My second tattoo for close to that and my third tattoo, pretty much ever since I knew dophins mated for life (say about 3 years). I also have two or three more I want to get but I haven't settled on the design, placement or both.
Assumptions based on our own likes and dislikes are dubious and even potentially harmful
True that, on the other hand, trusting people with swastika tats is almost always a bad idea, and if you are - like Cindy is - in a position of responsibility it's never going to be worth the risk. And hey, me too on that. I work in show biz. You know how many Jewish people work in show biz? I could never hire the person.
Most people seem to NEVER think of the fact that tattoos fade with age. That gorgeous flowy spirally flower you have on your shoulder will be a blurry, odd shape. People who use intricate fonts when tattooing stuff... well, that's just stupid.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F80s-music.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F09%2Faxl_rose_tatoo.jpg&hash=ad5aadca8ec5a230181c40a163a32a08c3205380)
If I'll ever tattoo myself, which I doubt, I'll tattoo the Bauhaus logotype, mostly because it's crisp, clear and un-cluttered.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.edwinmeijne.nl%2Fvisuals%2Factivities%2F63%2FBauhaus%2520logo.png&hash=e31f38a3ce4c602c0fd21d00b79b263c26820248)
Quote from: PixieBoy on March 04, 2011, 08:36:09 AM
Most people seem to NEVER think of the fact that tattoos fade with age. That gorgeous flowy spirally flower you have on your shoulder will be a blurry, odd shape.
That's why you need to get them re-inked every so often.
That gorgeous flowy spirally flower you have on your shoulder will be a blurry, odd shape.
Yeah, and the cute little butterfly you have put on your butt at 19 looks like Mothra when you're 40.
Quote from: tekla on March 04, 2011, 08:41:07 AM
That gorgeous flowy spirally flower you have on your shoulder will be a blurry, odd shape.
Yeah, and the cute little butterfly you have put on your butt at 19 looks like Mothra when you're 40.
True, but it makes for an oh so fun conversation when your kid asks you what a tramp stamp is. OT but I wonder how kids "accidentally" see a Girls Gone Wild commerical and say "Mommie, that looks like you!" or how many parents found out just what their daughter was doing on spring break the same way. I suppose its all one in the same.
One of them very old, and super crusty biker dudes told me when I was a teenager "Look kid, don't be stupid and do anything that make it easier for the man to identify you."
Quote from: tekla on March 04, 2011, 08:41:07 AM
Yeah, and the cute little butterfly you have put on your butt at 19 looks like Mothra when you're 40.
ROFLMAO ;D
I like tattoos, piercings and body modification in general. They don't define me, but they are an important part of my identity and to be honest I like having visible piercings and tattoos, it's like a litmus test for people I'd rather avoid...i.e. if you're so bloody shallow that you'll judge me on my appearence than bye bye *waves*
and for the record I have 3 and will be getting a 4th later this month and they are all visible 90% of the time. And I don't regret any of them.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on March 04, 2011, 10:20:16 AM
ROFLMAO ;D
Lol, good god the one on my ass is going to look weird someday. And the one on my hip, well, that one already IS weird.
Quote from: Helena on March 04, 2011, 10:42:36 AM
I like tattoos, piercings and body modification in general. They don't define me, but they are an important part of my identity and to be honest I like having visible piercings and tattoos, it's like a litmus test for people I'd rather avoid...i.e. if you're so bloody shallow that you'll judge me on my appearence than bye bye *waves*
Exactly. I also take offense at having my personal expressions labeled as a "fad" and resent the fact that they would limit my employment opportunities (even more) if I were to get as many as I wanted to. Surely it sounds a little familiar to have a negative preconception applied to you based on your appearance? Doesn't ring any bells?
I have only one thing that is visible most of the time - I scarred the word "Love" into my forearm as a joke about To Write Love On Her Arms for the Sydney Fringe Festival. I work in sales and very rarely will a customer notice and if they do it's great conversation fodder. I was very lucky to find the employer I did because every other job I have been interviewed for has been lost as soon as I met them in person no matter how overqualified I was and that was before the scar. Some of my heavily tattooed friends experience just as much prejudice for the way they look as I do and it saddens me to see some trans people having the same prejudices when they should know better.
Oh and I have four tattoos other than the carving so far, they're all jokes and anybody who says I will regret them when I get older doesn't know me very well.
My tattoo artist has quite a lot of swastikas (patterns made up of them) on his neck and elsewhere and I was asking him about them, he's most definitely not any sort of Nazi or racist in any way. Like a lot of other people he is interested in them for the pre-Nazi meanings (it was a symbol for good luck) and there is a movement to educate people about this, though I don't think they will have a lot of success unfortunately. Here's a link for anyone interested: http://reclaimtheswastika.com/ (http://reclaimtheswastika.com/)
Quote from: Imadique on March 04, 2011, 11:21:59 PMSurely it sounds a little familiar to have a negative preconception applied to you based on your appearance? Doesn't ring any bells?
Nope. No bells. It sounds more like the noise you get when you knock on wood.
Soooo I'm gonna guess that you arn't into tatts? lol
I have two huge tatts on my arms. I wear long sleeves to interviews and its never kept me from getting a job. Everyone always says it will but so far it hasn't effected me in the least.
I think tattoos are a wonderful way to express yourself. Every single one of my tatts has a lot of meaning and a lot of thought was put into them. They all are a tribute to my family or my own life so I can't really speak for the drunk girl that goes and gets a dolphin tramp stamp but heck if a someone really wants to get one of those then who am I to say "that's stupid?"
just my two cents, spend it where you wish.
I hate it when I write a reply and then the internet connection turns off.
My comment was that I personally didn't like tattoos, so I don't have any. I'm totally supportive of people who want them, unless they are minors, and I think society generally wouls support that view. I also live in a part of the world where the Aboriginal people have tattoos as part of their society, the same as Maori's. No issue.
What I seem to be being picked up one is my refusal to employ people who have racist or violent tattoos. I have interviewed hundreds of people over the years, and yes it is an employers market at the moment. If a person turns up for an interview with any sign that they are not a team player, may be irresponsible, may not be committed, have poor hygiene, are uninterested, have not done basic research about the job, I will not employ them. I totally don't care about there gender or sexuality (I mean get real), their religion, their age, their ethnic background etc etc. But if someone displays any sign that they may not be team players, may be disruptive, may be in any way someone I cannot depend upon 100%, I will not employ them. If a person presents in a three piece Armani suit with knuckle dusters hanging out of their pocket, I will not employ them. Why should I? I have to make choices between people to employ, if there is any reason to suspect that the person will not fit in, that's enough. I don't care if someone comes for interview with their face totally tattooed as a work of art, no problem, I would probably give them extra points for being interesting. I like to employ interesting people. If someone presents in a potential violent manner, then no way.
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on March 05, 2011, 01:29:05 AM
What I seem to be being picked up one is my refusal to employ people who have racist or violent tattoos.
If you're referring to my post about the swastikas I wasn't intending to pick on you (or Tekla), I was merely trying to point out that there are a lot of people who have them for very different reasons than the one most people would suspect. Personally I don't think the Swastika will ever be reclaimed, just felt the point had to be made on behalf of someone I respect very much.
However without intending this as an attack on you personally, but because your words are best representing an attitude I've seen held by others here as well, I feel that this is a terrible hypocrisy:
Quote from: CindyJames
As Tekla pointed out it is a fad. I think maybe coming out of cable shows such as LA Ink etc. While I appreciate the artwork involved, and the pain tolerance :laugh: the person has, the large 'arty' tattoos are probably unable to be removed by any laser technology currently available, so if someone wants them removed they would be looking at skin grafts, and big ones at that.
But people do weird stuff without thinking through the consequences.
Surely if an anti trans activist was writing our identities off as a fad and saying that it will be too hard for us to get back to normal once we come to our senses (as we surely will because we are doing something weird without thinking of the consequences) that would raise a little bit of ire with you?
Dear Imadique,
I am very happy to explore this, I'm very happy to improve my life and my attitude to people. If I have been disrespectful, please show me where. Where is the hypocrisy? What part of another person presenting to advertise hurt, torture and abuse of people is acceptable?
Cindy
It's incredibly difficult to find someone in todays youth that does not have a mody modification of some sort. Tattoos are getting increasingly popular.
It has become so mainstream I do not know how you're still linking tattoos with bikers and gangs.
Some people don't like tattoos and that's their opinion, but to judge so harshly based upon a simple choice someone makes about their own body is ridiculous.
Sure some people make silly decisions with their tattoos but that should not be what you judge the majority for.
Plus I don't think anyone except an idiot would remove their tattoo with box cutters.
There is a thing called a tattoo removal lazer - yes the results aren't perfect but it makes a whole lot more sense than trying to cut it off.
Xander I understood the reference was to people wanting to leave a gang having them forcibly removed by the gang members, regardless of their own wishes in the matter.
Removal of a tattoo by laser is dependent upon bleaching the pigment with intense light energy, as produced by a laser (to be simplistic). The effectiveness will depend on how much pigment there is, the depth of the pigment and the colour of the pigment, I can assure you if you have heavy, large pigmented tattoos you are looking at having your skin burnt off before loosing them. The reference to bikies and gangs etc, there was a case in Australia were they 'removed' his club colours with acid and paint strippers.
I do not and have not in my posts linked tattoos to gangs etc. Please read the post before replying.
My posts are not anti-tattoo but caution people who think to have them.
Read ten times, post once.
Cindy
Quote from: Imadique on March 04, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
My tattoo artist has quite a lot of swastikas (patterns made up of them) on his neck and elsewhere and I was asking him about them, he's most definitely not any sort of Nazi or racist in any way. Like a lot of other people he is interested in them for the pre-Nazi meanings (it was a symbol for good luck) and there is a movement to educate people about this, though I don't think they will have a lot of success unfortunately. Here's a link for anyone interested: http://reclaimtheswastika.com/ (http://reclaimtheswastika.com/)
That unfortunately is no different then the Confederate Flag, only becuase of the evil things it was used to represent AFTER the Civil War. But I've used that reference point many times, the swastika was around long before the Nazis.
Interestingly enough, now that you've reminded me, I was fairly political at one point (who isn't in their early 20s). I had this idead for a pink triangle on the inside of my wrist, it wasn't as bold as tattooing numbers but I wanted to send the same message. I never did get that tattoo...
Quote from: CindyJames on March 05, 2011, 05:36:08 AM
My posts are not anti-tattoo but caution people who think to have them.
I understand your point. And yes people do get faddish tattoos, there are a number of people, for example, who now unknowingly sport Irish gang tattoos and should be very careful should they ever vist Ireland. score one for not getting a tattoo just becuase it looks cool. Same for the fad of tramp stamps.
However, I can think of a number of career fields, mainstream career fields, that a tattoo is the price of admission more or less. Many military members have them, firefighters have pages and pages dedicated to tattoos, meanwhile most bikers any more are doctors and lawyers. Sure "sleeves" might not get you hired on at IBM (and I'm not 100% sure about that either), but I'm sure Google would love it.
At the core, what we're doing is body modification, and just like I would strongly encourage anyone here to fully educate themselves, I would say the same thing about getting tattoo.
Quote from: CindyJames on March 05, 2011, 03:16:01 AM
Dear Imadique,
I am very happy to explore this, I'm very happy to improve my life and my attitude to people. If I have been disrespectful, please show me where. Where is the hypocrisy? What part of another person presenting to advertise hurt, torture and abuse of people is acceptable?
Cindy
Cindy,
I can't help but ask you to re-read my post (10 times won't be necessary ;)) and notice I did not make any statement that even resembles supporting the notion highlighted in your quote above, all I did was point out that some people wear swastikas for completely innocent reasons - usually an interest in Eastern religions. I'm sure your interview subject could very well have been a head stomping fascist in his spare time, who knows - not the point. It was a side note to the main point I was trying to make which hasn't been debated by anyone so far about people attitudes to tattoos mirroring, to some degree, attitudes to trans people and your quote was highlighted because it had sentiments in it that are often held by people in regards to transitioning. To me, that is a hypocrisy.
- Sally
P.S: anyone who has extensive work done is not going to be worried about the complications in getting them removed, bikers and gangs are not really my area of expertise but I don't see how they are relevant to the average person wanting to express themselves.
Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 05:45:24 AM
That unfortunately is no different then the Confederate Flag, only becuase of the evil things it was used to represent AFTER the Civil War. But I've used that reference point many times, the swastika was around long before the Nazis.
Interestingly enough, now that you've reminded me, I was fairly political at one point (who isn't in their early 20s). I had this idead for a pink triangle on the inside of my wrist, it wasn't as bold as tattooing numbers but I wanted to send the same message. I never did get that tattoo...
I don't disagree, it will never be accepted in western culture regardless of the intentions of the wearer.
I think it was the comment about tattoos being a fad that stung. All mine have some meaning to me beyond just looking cool. The dragon on my shoulders represents me, the space invaders on my arm my place in the world and the star i just got on my wrist, well that was to mark going full time, so i doubt i need to explain that.
I think the point Imadique was trying to make was universally dismissing tattoos in such a manner echos and mirrors the way some anti-trans activists proclaim the whole trans thing is merely a cultural phenomonon and a trend...dismissing our experiences wholesale.
Quote from: CindyJames on March 04, 2011, 01:48:36 AM
I
As Tekla pointed out it is a fad. I think maybe coming out of cable shows such as LA Ink etc. While I appreciate the artwork involved, and the pain tolerance :laugh: the person has, the large 'arty' tattoos are probably unable to be removed by any laser technology currently available, so if someone wants them removed they would be looking at skin grafts, and big ones at that.
But people do weird stuff without thinking through the consequences.
I acknowledge that this remark may have been better stated but I think it is (essentially) true. Again it does not state any opinion beyond personal choice. As for large artwork tattoos being a fad, how can they not be? They have only started in the last few years. Again calling something a fad is not insulting it. It's a comment on it's occurrence in a historical sense. In Victorian times women used bustles to emphasise their hips, in later years woman wore short skirts to show off their legs. Currently in my part of the world girls have a uniform of very short cut off shorts, made to look like stressed denim. They are fads; but they are not permanent. My pierced ears are a fad, if I remove the rings they will disappear. Tattoos will not.
Again can I totally and completely reiterate. I'm not against tattoos. I don't like them so I will not have them. If you like them, have them. It is your choice.
My discussion on this topic is finished.
Cindy
I would argue that the following website http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html (http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html) disproves that:
1. Tattoos are a recent fad
2. Large surface area tattoos are a recent fad.
3. Until recently tattoos were a part of a criminal fringe.
I won't waste space on the forum further. Click on the link if you choose to.
Quote from: LightBulbs on March 05, 2011, 09:55:45 AM
I cant stand tatoos on the arms, neck or upper back/chest area. Lower back is trashy but OK, feet, hips etc can be OK if theyre symmetrical.
The worst though are dramatic eyebrows (surprised look) or overdone eyeliner, because theyre the hardest to remove if you dont want to lose any hair.
Funniest would be people names, especially after you fall out with them. ;D
Rule of thumb is to never get names of someone living unless they are children. The only name I have on me is my mom's name and that is as a remembrance of her murder. I do believe that anyone who gets a tattoo should think about it and research they whys of why they want one. It's no different than when someone who is asking about taking the path of an FTM or MTF asks me if it's the right choice for them. I can't answer that but if they are thinking about it they should do the research be aware of all the challenges that potentially could face them. I've never regretted mine and I will probably get more.
I've been told that being an FTM is a fad. Seriously. Both of these aren't fads. They are ways of existence for people.
Quote from: Imadique on March 05, 2011, 07:57:56 AM
Cindy,
I can't help but ask you to re-read my post (10 times won't be necessary ;)) and notice I did not make any statement that even resembles supporting the notion highlighted in your quote above, all I did was point out that some people wear swastikas for completely innocent reasons - usually an interest in Eastern religions. I'm sure your interview subject could very well have been a head stomping fascist in his spare time, who knows - not the point. It was a side note to the main point I was trying to make which hasn't been debated by anyone so far about people attitudes to tattoos mirroring, to some degree, attitudes to trans people and your quote was highlighted because it had sentiments in it that are often held by people in regards to transitioning. To me, that is a hypocrisy.
- Sally
My apologies Sally I mis-read your post. I have in practice been fascinated at times about the use of symbols, the swastika with reversed 'feet' is regarded as a sacred symbol. Sadly people use symbols to quickly enforce fear.
JMO
Cindy
Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html (http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html)
Very interesting read.
Quote from: Andy8715 on March 05, 2011, 02:28:05 PM
Very interesting read.
I found it quite interesting, I would have ended up cutting and pasting almost the whole thing by the time I got done reading it.
I think tattoos are cool but better off in places that can be hidden if someone wants a career that is a "business suit" type job. That's not to say I think they shouldn't have them there but society tends to see tattoos on the neck of someone in a business suit to be irresponsible so companies are leery of hiring them. Otherwise get what you want. I'm not a fan of tons of tattoos myself but they are beautiful works of art in my opinion and if the person wants them then go for it :)
Personally my mom has two of them, both able to be hidden by average clothing or medium length hair. One on her chest near her heart and one on the back of her neck. For me I won't get one because I'm afraid of needles. I'd love to get a chest piece done or something on my upper arm as celebration once I have completed my transition (gotten top surgery). Also it would be a sign of finally working through my biggest fear (needles).
I'm also planning on getting a chest tattoo after top surgery. Well thinking very hard about it but not certain I will get the tattoo.
Quote from: Andy8715 on March 05, 2011, 02:51:39 PM
I'm also planning on getting a chest tattoo after top surgery. Well thinking very hard about it but not certain I will get the tattoo.
I've had that same thought, too. I was originally going to get it across my shoulders but realized no one would ever see it.
What're you thinking of (if I can be annoying and nosy)?
Quote from: tekla on March 04, 2011, 08:25:41 AM
Assumptions based on our own likes and dislikes are dubious and even potentially harmful
True that, on the other hand, trusting people with swastika tats is almost always a bad idea, and if you are - like Cindy is - in a position of responsibility it's never going to be worth the risk. And hey, me too on that. I work in show biz. You know how many Jewish people work in show biz? I could never hire the person.
Yeah. Swastika tats are a no-go, period, no ifs, ands, or buts, I would
never trust someone with swastika tats enough to hire them for
anything.(Those who have genuine changes of heart should be wearing long sleeves, and band-aids to cover ones on face/neck, until they can get them removed or covered up. Swastikas are just something you don't walk around showing unless you actively want to associate yourself with Nazis.)
Re: tattoos in general though...I don't think there's anything wrong with them, honestly. Some people do seem to get them without really understanding what "permanent" means (lots of guys I served with in the military, who stumbled drunkenly down to a tattoo parlor to get an EGA on their shoulder in a peculiar self-imposed initiation ritual, probably wish they'd put a bit more thought and creativity into design/placement) but on the whole I think they're fine.
I'll almost certainly be getting a chest tattoo after surgery; I'm generally not a fan of tattoos on me, but you can't really beat them as a scar coverup. And I do think chest tats are kind of hot.
I don't mind tattoos, and I see people with them in pretty much all lines of work over here, but I'd never get one myself because I'm majoring in Japanese, and therefore intend to spend time in Japan sporadically throughout the rest of my life, and over there, having a tattoo is a major no-no - it links you to the Yakuza.
Quote from: kyril on March 05, 2011, 07:36:45 PM
Re: tattoos in general though...I don't think there's anything wrong with them, honestly. Some people do seem to get them without really understanding what "permanent" means (lots of guys I served with in the military, who stumbled drunkenly down to a tattoo parlor to get an EGA on their shoulder in a peculiar self-imposed initiation ritual, probably wish they'd put a bit more thought and creativity into design/placement) but on the whole I think they're fine.
Most tattoo artists I'm aware of won't tattoo someone "under the influence". Though I guess there's always the exception...
Tattoos have been rather popular for various reasons... Usually for some kind of belonging to some group or other... But I just like the artwork of a particular style
I've never had one and doubt I could ever afford to get any... But I've often dreamed of getting a variety of butterflies, flowers, some ocean waves and maybe a few other creatures about my bum and bikini area
It would have to be awhile after SRS for some of it and no-one would know but a few close friends and a special someone who manages to get my nickers off anyway :laugh:
Quote from: N.Chaos on March 05, 2011, 06:45:58 PM
I've had that same thought, too. I was originally going to get it across my shoulders but realized no one would ever see it.
What're you thinking of (if I can be annoying and nosy)?
No idea actually, just really want to do it. I really like old flash style tattoos so probably something with those but I want it all to blend together and not just be a bunch of random pieces.
Don't like them;
Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 05:45:24 AM
Interestingly enough, now that you've reminded me, I was fairly political at one point (who isn't in their early 20s). I had this idead for a pink triangle on the inside of my wrist, it wasn't as bold as tattooing numbers but I wanted to send the same message. I never did get that tattoo...
:P I'm 22 and not-at-all political.
Anyway, I don't mind tattoos (but I'm biased and have one....In two hours I'm going to go to the tattoo shop and get my dog's name tattooed on my ankle) for the most part. Some I have no idea why the person got them, but I'm not that person so I really don't need to know.
Quote from: Andy8715 on March 05, 2011, 10:36:18 PM
No idea actually, just really want to do it. I really like old flash style tattoos so probably something with those but I want it all to blend together and not just be a bunch of random pieces.
That's pretty sweet, I love those types of drawings too. If I ever get the balls to do mine, it's going to be a nightmare. I want a death's head, like from the old tombstones. A big one.
I happen to like tattoos that are simple, well thought out, and always relevant. I would probably get a tattoo post-srs, to commemorate the year I started changing my life for the better. The tattoo would likely take up 1.8"x.4" on a currently unspecified location, and one tattoo is enough for me.
Here's the rough design on my forearm as drawn by a fountain pen:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmxQI7.jpg%3F0.6527659157047249&hash=cc04fe68552c826f5986675a9dd9ad1eb578d19d)
I personally abhor a tatoo. My former wife has them . I never saw where they enhance any part of a human anyway......... I certainly wouldn't want my children to indulge in one either . ellen
I think we should also keep in mind that tattoos can have cultural and religious importance, or even be a mandatory part of coming of age or passing another milestone in some places. It's very disrespectful to forget that and instantly write off all tattoos as a fad or as something frivolous or done solely for the looks.
As far as tattooing minors or people under the influence, it's illegal in Canada and many parts of the United States. An artist who tattoos a minor without special consent from a parent or guardian (and even then, many artists refuse) or someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol, can lose their license and shop.
or someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol,
That's funny because I lived for a couple of years right next door to the oldest (1950s) tattoo parlor in SF and I don't think I ever saw anyone going in there who wasn't coming out of one of the local bars first.
Quote from: tekla on March 09, 2011, 09:49:37 AM
or someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol,
That's funny because I lived for a couple of years right next door to the oldest (1950s) tattoo parlor in SF and I don't think I ever saw anyone going in there who wasn't coming out of one of the local bars first.
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean they don't do it. I'm sure that there are a fair amount of artists who will always break the rules, but they could still be fined or lose their license if they were ever caught. Or maybe San Francisco doesn't have the same laws. I know California tends to be a bit more wild than my country.
ETA: After a quick Google, it seems that California as a whole has very few regulations for the tattoo industry. If you're interested in knowing the various prohibitions and regulations in each state, you can google "Tattoo Regulations by STate" and a very helpful website should come up.
I'm more of a piercing kind of person but I still want a couple of tattoos. Not sure what or where but i'm not getting them untill I've had top surgery and lost some weight but I really like Marc's work from Little Swastika so i'll either go to germany or try to find an artist that does similar work http://www.little-swastika.com/ (http://www.little-swastika.com/) Tattoos for me though are a few years away so I have plenty of time to make sure I know what I want etc.
I feel that people with body mods are becoming more accepted in jobs, well they are here in the UK anyway. I'm personally not too worried about my future as a body mod fan as I see people these days in all sorts of jobs with tattoos and piercings.
Wow, some of those are awesome...I'm not sure I'd want that much skin covered though. But still. wow!
Quote from: tekla on March 09, 2011, 09:49:37 AM
or someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol,
That's funny because I lived for a couple of years right next door to the oldest (1950s) tattoo parlor in SF and I don't think I ever saw anyone going in there who wasn't coming out of one of the local bars first.
Forgetting the legality of it any reputable tattoo artist wouldn't work on a drunk person anyway because they will bleed more, making it more likely the recipient will lose some of the ink.
Yeah...well, there's a booming business in disreputable tattoo parlors around military bases.
SF has been a navel town since day one when the ships sailed in the Golden Gate. Long before tats became trendy they were almost standard issue for sailors, and I'll bet long after Muffy, Chuck, and Larry get all bored with 'body art' that sailors are still going to be sporting tattoos. And have you ever seen a sober sailor on shore leave? No. The other huge group of people getting tatts long before Cindy Lou and Ken got their frat tattoo and even before Lucrezia Borgia* went all Suicide Girl Goth on everyone - were bikers and gang members. They too tended to show up loaded, and you know what? Everybody let them.
Actually, before you people came along and wrecked the perfectly sleazy, soft-white-underbelly world of tattooing with your notion of a reputable tattoo artist** - so that we can now have tattoo parlors in the strip mall right between the Dress Barn and the video game store - a tattoo was pretty much a life time visual reminder of that one night in your life when you were drunker than all other nights ever.
The only thing that bothers me about it (well the fact that while a very few tattoo jobs are fricking awesome, most are rather mediocre, and a rather large number are just crap - but that's the odds in all art) is that it's that entire commercialization of cool that pretty much has ruined everything in the post-modern world. Really, once you can go to the mall and get your tattoo right next to the Hot Topic so when you're done you can buy a whole new wardrobe to show it off in, how cool is it anyway?
Is anything cool, or unique, just because you buy it?
* - not her real name, she was born Meagan Leigh Murphy...
** - Some of you might like this story, it at least explains my reluctance over the word reputable. Back when I was in grad school there was an older (I was in my 30s, she was in her 50s, so it does not seem old now) women in the other program. We had some classes together, we talked and had offices in the same bullpen room and all that, and I always thought of her as one of those nice Iowa type women, raised her kids and is now following a dream of studying at that level. She was pretty prim and proper you know straight. Hell, her husband was a minister (Unitarian, but still...) She's always go have coffee with us but I never saw her at the bar come Friday afternoon (where we parked ourselves pretty much until Sunday morning). So this nice straight women takes me aside one day and whispers: "Do you know a reputable source for LSD?" Now, normally, people approach me with that topic like this" "Dude, I bet you could score us some killer doses," and they get my normal reply of "I have no idea what you are talking about," but her question threw me for a loop and I looked at her and said, rather loudly: "Lady, reputable people don't sell LSD." At which point one of my main professors was walking up behind me, heard only my reply and continued walking down the hall saying: "You might only veer close to the truth on occasions, but when you do you at least hit it head on."
And that's not the end of that story, but it's as much as I'm going to tell....
Hah, that reminds me of the time I was at a festival in the south of England (c.1982) and a really, really obvious undercover policeman came over to us and asked, very politely, "Excuse me, but do you know where I can find the best acid on site?" We looked at his shiny black shoes and his attempt at jeans/teeshirt, and we smiled benignly and shook our heads. Bless. I like to think he's now happily shearing sheep in NZ with waist length hair* now. Or something.
*his, not the sheep.
I never understood the desire to permanently mark one's self for the purpose of ornamentation. I certainly don't understand getting inked somewhere like the hands, neck or face. As an employer and business person, I have to wonder about someones judgement in doing something like that more than the actual fact of having the tattoo itself.
If you know it's going to make your job prospects slimmer, why would you choose to have tats in such a visible place? I'd never want to deny someone the right to get or have a tattoo but just keep in mind that employers and others have rights too and that is their choice to not hire you because you do not fit the image of their business.
My decision to get tattooed was about as "trendy" and "cool" as my decision to transition.
Well what everyone thinks is "stylish" is really their own opinion.
I myself, want a tattoo of a butterfly on my lower back at some point and maybe a tinkerbell one on my thigh. Those places because they're subtle and can be covered up with clothing easily enough when I feel like they need to be.
Others obviously don't feel that way and that's totally fine =)
Quote from: StacyBeaumont on March 10, 2011, 12:47:56 PM
I never understood the desire to permanently mark one's self for the purpose of ornamentation. I certainly don't understand getting inked somewhere like the hands, neck or face. As an employer and business person, I have to wonder about someones judgement in doing something like that more than the actual fact of having the tattoo itself.
If you know it's going to make your job prospects slimmer, why would you choose to have tats in such a visible place? I'd never want to deny someone the right to get or have a tattoo but just keep in mind that employers and others have rights too and that is their choice to not hire you because you do not fit the image of their business.
Mods are becoming more visible in the workplace, they're less visible in what society calls "good" jobs but they will be eventually. Things are moving and changing as more people are modified. Right now it's still more difficult for people with visible body mods to get a job and that's something people should keep in mind and it's the reason i've not got more mods right now.
Quote from: tekla on March 10, 2011, 09:21:30 AM
Long before tats became trendy they were almost standard issue for sailors, and I'll bet long after Muffy, Chuck, and Larry get all bored with 'body art' that sailors are still going to be sporting tattoos. And have you ever seen a sober sailor on shore leave? No. The other huge group of people getting tatts long before Cindy Lou and Ken got their frat tattoo and even before Lucrezia Borgia* went all Suicide Girl Goth on everyone - were bikers and gang members. They too tended to show up loaded, and you know what? Everybody let them.
Nah, tattoos were establishment before motorbikes existed, never mind bike gangs. :)
Course thats just speaking for a particular brand of white person, but no way am I getting into how ethnocentric this conversation is.
Quote from: tekla on March 10, 2011, 09:21:30 AM
SF has been a navel town since day one when the ships sailed in the Golden Gate. Long before tats became trendy they were almost standard issue for sailors, and I'll bet long after Muffy, Chuck, and Larry get all bored with 'body art' that sailors are still going to be sporting tattoos. And have you ever seen a sober sailor on shore leave? No. The other huge group of people getting tatts long before Cindy Lou and Ken got their frat tattoo and even before Lucrezia Borgia* went all Suicide Girl Goth on everyone - were bikers and gang members. They too tended to show up loaded, and you know what? Everybody let them.
Actually, before you people came along and wrecked the perfectly sleazy, soft-white-underbelly world of tattooing with your notion of a reputable tattoo artist** - so that we can now have tattoo parlors in the strip mall right between the Dress Barn and the video game store - a tattoo was pretty much a life time visual reminder of that one night in your life when you were drunker than all other nights ever.
The only thing that bothers me about it (well the fact that while a very few tattoo jobs are fricking awesome, most are rather mediocre, and a rather large number are just crap - but that's the odds in all art) is that it's that entire commercialization of cool that pretty much has ruined everything in the post-modern world. Really, once you can go to the mall and get your tattoo right next to the Hot Topic so when you're done you can buy a whole new wardrobe to show it off in, how cool is it anyway?
Is anything cool, or unique, just because you buy it?
Aside from the always entertaining framing in days-that-used-to-be rhetoric, what an absolute load of tosh. You don't think individual parlours and/or artists build up a good reputation? You don't think the sailors/bikers/gang members/hipsters have their loyalties? I'm not going to argue with you over whether people get inked under the influence, I really don't care, but I'd suspect that if too many people walk away with bad results that artist won't do too well so it's in their interest to make sure the person is not going to bleed excessively. I can only speak from my experiences as a non naval, non biker, non tribes person, non gang member in Australia but I know that even the biker run parlours I've visited won't deal with you if you are obviously intoxicated. I'm sure places exist that will, maybe they're commonplace in SF but it's ignorant to say that in modern times it's the general rule. What do I know anyway, I wasn't around for the golden years where the reputable parlours were frequently firebombed. Right up until 2010 I think the last one was.
What's more interesting to me is your enthusiasm to engage on a side topic with more than your usual two line desk calendar replies and completely ignore any and all arguments that it is offensive and hypocritical to write peoples self expressions off as a fad and hold prejudices against them for the way they look - especially in a community brought together by exactly that concept and experience. I've been watching this topic but trying not to say too much because I haven't seen anyone argue against my points mentioned on page two and mentioned above, I'm disappointed because I really would like to engage in that argument rather than silly quibbles over counter culture becoming mainstream or reply to people piping in to say "yuck, disgusting".
If you want another side argument though,
Quote
Is anything cool, or unique, just because you buy it?
if you're applying that statement to Tattoos, first I have to question the relevance of it at all - you're implying that a primary motivation of people seeking to be inked is to be cool and unique. What?
I thought tatts belonged to the navy and gang members who got them to fit in with the rest of their crew? Or was it the tribesmen who had to do it as a rite of passage to belong?
Secondly, this would seem to be rather obvious but just how is something you have designed yourself or had custom designed for you according to your specifications which have been derived from your own imagination and personality excluded from the possibility of being unique? Cool is completely subjective, I don't know what it has to do with anything we were talking about and I doubt you would think anything post 1972 was cool anyway ;)
Sure there's plenty of people who will pick stock designs out of a book but how are they any worse than the bikers/sailors/gang members? Just as an aside I don't understand why anyone would use a stock design, I'd never do it. Are the proud bogan parents who get their kids names on their arms trying to be cool and unique? Dead relatives names also?
You would probably hate all of mine but I'd challenge you to find someone else with the same collection - I'll post them if you want to try. Does that mean they're not cool but unique? Does it matter anyway? I don't think so, I love them either way.
Lastly, how on earth does paying for it have any relevance? It's pretty hard to tattoo yourself and most people who would do it for free are to be avoided. Are you saying nothing that is enabled by a financial transaction can be cool and unique? Did all those artistic heroes play/paint/create for free? Did anyone paying for their services strip the works of integrity?
Tattoos are absolutely stylish, although some people don't have particularly good style.
I got the first of my 7 tattoos... 22 years ago this week if I'm not mistaken. I remain employable, have a beautiful girlfriend who finds them "hot", and don't regret them.
They're just not for everyone.
I used to find tattoos to be absolutely disgusting, now I feel somewhere in the middle. I have none now, but after I transition, I think I might get a few, but they must be carefully chosen. This is not something you do after you walk out of a bar drunk. I absolutely HATE tattoos on men, hate them, I've never seen a man who looks better with one, and I'm bisexual. No men should ever get a tattoo in my ideal world. However, on women, it works in my eye, SOMETIMES, if it is done right. Since I'm still stuck in a male body, I'd never think of getting a tattoo, but after I start going female, I might pick up a few. I think I want one on my lower back, some around my ankles. MAYBE some on the shoulders, not sure about that. But that's my opinion and everyone else is free to have their opinion.
I think tattoos are just like any other decision you make in your life. If you jump into it and do it for the wrong reasons then you'll probably suffer from the consequences later. If you're smart about it and make sure its something you really want then you'll be happy. Its just like anything else.
My basic opinion about tattoos is that I don't like them on anybody.
Quote from: StacyBeaumont on March 10, 2011, 12:47:56 PM
If you know it's going to make your job prospects slimmer, why would you choose to ...
Transition?
I guess with tattoos or transitions people think that it's important enough.