Hello! I'm new here, and I was wondering if anyone could help with this problem. Sorry if this may be posted in the wrong place, but I thought the ftm section might be more informative.
Backstory: I need to get rid of my feminine body shape, like boobs, hips, and butt. I don't really identify as male, but I would like to have a very slim, toned body shape that is flat-chested with no butt that I notice some girls have as well. Someone in the past commented that I was more "curvy" than this other girl who he saw pics of, which made me very angry since I identify as more masculine than this girl and he was saying that she had a slimmer, less feminine figure than me. This was about 6 months ago.
Around then I was looking at phytoestrogens and how soy can cause boob growth, and being vegetarian I was drinking soy milk and such, so I stopped that and kinda switched to regular/skim milk. I try to limit soy as much as possible, only having like 1 strip of vegan bacon everyday/other day.
So, I've been doing cardio exercise and strength training (not really consistently though) like 1-3x a week. I read about these other things called "xenoestrogens" and got kinda paranoid. So now i drink mostly filtered water, I've stopped using moisturizer, cleanser, and lotion which contained xenoestrogen ingredients (parabens, methyl, etc) since i found out a few days ago.
I've only started being vegan when i was 15 (jan 2009) and switched to vegetarian/pescetarian in the middle of the year, switched back to vegetarian, and now I'm pescetarian (also 17 years old). I got my period when I was 10 or 11, so since I was eating meat back then, would that have caused excess estrogen? Or maybe the store-bought soaps like carress? Or tap/bottle water and microwave dinners... it feels like the environment could've sabotaged me.
I'm 4'11 88 lbs, size 0 if that helps. I think I'm a high A or B cup. I haven't gotten my body fat % or any other measurements taken yet, but i hope to soon when i see the doctor to see if i can get my hormone levels and other stuff tested.
tldr: So, my question is do you guys think that xenoestrogens, phytoestrogens from soy products, or estrogens from animal products caused feminine curves? Since I think I mostly eliminated these things, how do i get a flat chest and no butt? Should I try testosterone cream? Also, I don't want to grow facial hair, I only want a slim, straight body like a guy.
Sorry for the long post, I'm kind of desperate, I just really don't like feeling or looking like such a girl. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks so much guys!
Xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens have negligible effects in adult women/people with female hormone balances. The overwhelming majority of the estrogen your body is working with is produced endogenously. The concern with phytoestrogens is that they can affect boys (especially infants) negatively by lowering sperm counts and interfering with genital masculinization, and that they may be involved in triggering early feminization of prepubescent girls. If you're already in or past puberty, they're basically irrelevant because your body is producing enough estrogen on its own to make any environmental estrogens completely irrelevant.
Higher estrogen levels don't necessarily result in a curvier shape anyway; the body has a limited number of estrogen receptors. Your body shape is almost exclusively a function of your genes, your musculature, and your body fat percentage. If you have very low body fat, are muscular, and are still curvy, there's basically nothing you can do.
However, I suspect you're not as muscular as you could be. You're 4'11 and 88 pounds, which gives you a BMI of 17.8, or borderline underweight. It seems likely that you could eat more and lift weights, put on some more weight in the form of muscle, and probably look significantly more masculine.
Quote from: kyril on March 06, 2011, 06:40:43 PM
However, I suspect you're not as muscular as you could be. You're 4'11 and 88 pounds, which gives you a BMI of 17.8, or borderline underweight. It seems likely that you could eat more and lift weights, put on some more weight in the form of muscle, and probably look significantly more masculine.
This. Estrogen does affect body fat distribution to some extent, but from what I understand, that's one of the last effects of testosterone; the body hair, voice drop, and facial changes all typically come months before fat redistributes. Estrogen blockers can also help you lose female patterned fat deposits in conjunction with exercise, but those effects would only be while you're on the blockers and they're not safe to take long term, you need either estrogen or testosterone for bone density. Also, in some people estrogen blockers can actually cause weight gain (as well as menopausal side effects), it's not a real solution; those are meant to be used temporarily.
Even with testosterone, where you can't pick what changes you'll get, there's a chance you'd never be able to attain a completely slim/straight figure, as Kyril says, that's more genetics than it is hormones. I agree that building muscle is the best way to masculinize your figure since you're already at a very low weight, losing much more fat without gaining muscle would not be healthy.
Quote from: kyril on March 06, 2011, 06:40:43 PM
Xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens have negligible effects in adult women/people with female hormone balances. The overwhelming majority of the estrogen your body is working with is produced endogenously. The concern with phytoestrogens is that they can affect boys (especially infants) negatively by lowering sperm counts and interfering with genital masculinization, and that they may be involved in triggering early feminization of prepubescent girls. If you're already in or past puberty, they're basically irrelevant because your body is producing enough estrogen on its own to make any environmental estrogens completely irrelevant.
Higher estrogen levels don't necessarily result in a curvier shape anyway; the body has a limited number of estrogen receptors. Your body shape is almost exclusively a function of your genes, your musculature, and your body fat percentage. If you have very low body fat, are muscular, and are still curvy, there's basically nothing you can do.
However, I suspect you're not as muscular as you could be. You're 4'11 and 88 pounds, which gives you a BMI of 17.8, or borderline underweight. It seems likely that you could eat more and lift weights, put on some more weight in the form of muscle, and probably look significantly more masculine.
Thanks for your reply! So, I guess i can still use some products that have xenoestrogens and expect no body change/side effects. I will try adding muscle then, so far I've been doing the low weights/high rep stuff mostly
Quote from: Jake84 on March 06, 2011, 07:09:35 PM
This. Estrogen does affect body fat distribution to some extent, but from what I understand, that's one of the last effects of testosterone; the body hair, voice drop, and facial changes all typically come months before fat redistributes. Estrogen blockers can also help you lose female patterned fat deposits in conjunction with exercise, but those effects would only be while you're on the blockers and they're not safe to take long term, you need either estrogen or testosterone for bone density. Also, in some people estrogen blockers can actually cause weight gain (as well as menopausal side effects), it's not a real solution; those are meant to be used temporarily.
Even with testosterone, where you can't pick what changes you'll get, there's a chance you'd never be able to attain a completely slim/straight figure, as Kyril says, that's more genetics than it is hormones. I agree that building muscle is the best way to masculinize your figure since you're already at a very low weight, losing much more fat without gaining muscle would not be healthy.
Thanks for your reply! Bummer, I was looking at estrogen blockers too. I suppose the only way is exercise for now, I still need to find out my body % to see if i could lose more and gain muscle at the same time, I've no clue if there's a cut-off point or something lol
i agree with what jake84 said, Testestorone is a very powerful hormone, you have to accept all of its effects, you cant choose what you want or dont want.