Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Speaking of terms...

Some people seem to use these two interchangeably, while to me genderqueer seems like more of a willful bending of gender roles-more of a political act-to be publically genderbent.
And androgyne seemed more innate, like "This isn't a choice, this is who I am..."

That's why I don't like the term genderqueer for myself these days.  It used to be quasipolitical; or so I thought...but now it's about being at home in my own skin. It's about being who I really am-about taking joy in myself.

How do you-all feel about those two terms?

they are both umbrella terms for non binary gendered people and as such are to broad to use as an identity most gender diverse people I've met IRL haven't heard the term androgyne while they all have their own opinion of what genderqueer is, most local trans people see me as genderqueer and If I'm dancing away with lesbians and If I'm asked how I I.d. I generally say "genderqueer asexual Lesbian" and they have been fine with that.  Normally when that happens I'm all frocked up with other gender diverse people. that was a fun night :D

If someone calls themselves genderqueer, I feel like I have a fair idea what they mean by it (though I'll usually ask too :)), but I won't use it myself because I have a personal negative history with the Q word, and can't abide the scourge factor it had (and still often has in the wrong hands).

Androgyne seems to be used more to say "I have no gender" - or at least that's the flavour I pick up from people. I'm kind of keener on polygender now, since people don't seem to get what ambigender means ;). But I feel like I am both (which presupposes a 'both' to be, I know, but that's how I experience me) - so a 'neither' doesn't really fit, for me.

I think in the end, whatever we call ourselves we should be happy to explain what it means to us, because it's inevitable that the meaning's going to be different from person to person.

I always figured that Androgyne meant something more like "neither or in-between" genders, whereas genderqueer implied a fluidity in gender identity. But that is just my personal interpretation.

I've only heard genderqueer as an umbrella insult, while gender<not allowed> implies intentionally raising eyebrows by changing your appearance. Androgynuity is more complicated but it's not normally done for the intention of... trying to think of a better term... "trolling" the world.


Edit: oh wow, censors.  :police: genderfunk (turn the n around).

I always thought that Androgyne was someone who's appearence was neither male nor female, but that they still had a gender. As I've heard the terms Agender and Neutrois for people who do not have any gender at all. Genderqueer was more that you had a gender but it didn't fit within the traditional male or female and Genderfunk was just a more in your face version of Genderqueer. Which is why I apply Genderqueer to myself, I'm defently not male or female I'm more female than male, but neither and I'm pretty in the closet about it.

Not real sure, about the queer part.  Is it to mean gay or odd or unconventional, or eccentric or conterfeit ?   

Quote from: espo on March 11, 2011, 09:29:47 PM
Not real sure, about the queer part.  Is it to mean gay or odd or unconventional, or eccentric...

Yes, any or all of those things.

Quote from: espo on March 11, 2011, 09:29:47 PM
...or conterfeit ?

Let us hope not. Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit. Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement, an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.

Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you, whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald

I think of genderqueer as not fitting under the male or female label.  In my mind, androgyne would fall under this heading.  I'd describe the willful bending of genders as gender->-bleeped-<-.  It's interesting how we all seem to have different definitions for these.

Genderqueer covers a pretty wide range, and some androgyne individuals may feel comfortable within that range or overlapping with it.

Genderf***king is an activity more along the lines of how I read the original post's notion of genderqueer.

I used to see genderqueer as a performance and androgyne as an identity.

Quote from: Pica Pica on March 12, 2011, 05:40:33 PM
I used to see genderqueer as a performance and androgyne as an identity.

Hummmm.....that's interesting. 

Emerald,

Did you coem up with this:

"Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you, whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald"

Or, where did you find it?

It is profound and very seminal to those transitioning, as it is the secret to "pass" (I hate that word but I cannot find a better one).

Kate

to me androgyne means something specific: the blending or diffusion of binary genders, so you're not entirely one or the other.

whereas genderqueer means nothing specific: just that your gender is "queer" somehow, and you're not saying exactly how, but you're not saying it in a positive in-your-face kind of way.

:)

@kate durcal
Thank you for the compliment. :) The words are my own.
-Emerald

When I identified as genderqueer, it was a fairly fluid place to me. I saw the gender binary, but picked and chose between the traits there to better fit who I was. I wasn't putting on a performance or trying to be political. I was just using binary gendered language to describe different aspects of myself.

When I stopped doing that, I became much more comfortable identifying as androgyne. At that point, I stopped viewing different aspects of my personality or behavior as "masculine" or "feminine." They just are. I'm not some mystical blend of arbitrary gender concepts. I'm me. I have whatever gender exists outside of culture and societal prescription.

Since the terms are fairly fluid and may be applied in multiple ways, though, I don't much worry about what they might mean to other people. They're just words. Words can't encompass the reality of a human.

I find that these terms mean different things for different people.  It's all about what feels right.

Some people seem to use these two interchangeably, while to me genderqueer seems like more of a willful bending of gender roles-more of a political act-to be publically genderbent. And androgyne seemed more innate, like "This isn't a choice, this is who I am..."
That's why I don't like the term genderqueer for myself these days.  It used to be quasipolitical; or so I thought...but now it's about being at home in my own skin. It's about being who I really am-about taking joy in myself.
-hylie random

they are both umbrella terms for non binary gendered people and as such are to broad to use as an identity most gender diverse people I've met IRL haven't heard the term androgyne
-Kinkly

I think in the end, whatever we call ourselves we should be happy to explain what it means to us, because it's inevitable that the meaning's going to be different from person to person.
-yoxi

I always figured that Androgyne meant something more like "neither or in-between" genders, whereas genderqueer implied a fluidity in gender identity.
-Yakshini

I've only heard genderqueer as an umbrella insult, while genderfu*k implies intentionally raising eyebrows by changing your appearance. Androgynuity is more complicated but it's not normally done for the intention of... trying to think of a better term... "trolling" the world.
-My Name Is Ellie


I always thought that Androgyne was someone who's appearence was neither male nor female, but that they still had a gender. As I've heard the terms Agender and Neutrois for people who do not have any gender at all. Genderqueer was more that you had a gender but it didn't fit within the traditional male or female and Genderfunk was just a more in your face version of Genderqueer.
-f1r3wire

Not real sure, about the queer part.  Is it to mean gay or odd or unconventional, or eccentric or conterfeit ?
-espo

Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit. Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement, an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.
Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.
-Emerald

I think of genderqueer as not fitting under the male or female label.  In my mind, androgyne would fall under this heading.  I'd describe the willful bending of genders as gender->-bleeped-<-.  It's interesting how we all seem to have different definitions for these.
-Lee

Genderqueer covers a pretty wide range, and some androgyne individuals may feel comfortable within that range or overlapping with it.
-SydneyTinker

I used to see genderqueer as a performance and androgyne as an identity.
-Pica Pica

Hummmm.....that's interesting.
-espo

to me androgyne means something specific: the blending or diffusion of binary genders, so you're not entirely one or the other.
whereas genderqueer means nothing specific: just that your gender is "queer" somehow, and you're not saying exactly how, but you're not saying it in a positive in-your-face kind of way.
-jenalex

When I identified as genderqueer, it was a fairly fluid place to me. I saw the gender binary, but picked and chose between the traits there to better fit who I was. I wasn't putting on a performance or trying to be political. I was just using binary gendered language to describe different aspects of myself.
When I stopped doing that, I became much more comfortable identifying as androgyne. At that point, I stopped viewing different aspects of my personality or behavior as "masculine" or "feminine." They just are. I'm not some mystical blend of arbitrary gender concepts. I'm me. I have whatever gender exists outside of culture and societal prescription.
Since the terms are fairly fluid and may be applied in multiple ways, though, I don't much worry about what they might mean to other people. They're just words. Words can't encompass the reality of a human.
-Lepidoptera

I find that these terms mean different things for different people.  It's all about what feels right.
-Jaimey


Although some of the above was pulled out of context, I think it has a lot to say.
-Ativan

I feel like genderqueer is a word like transgender that covers a bunch of different identities. I think that a person who identifies as androgyne feels both male and female. In my mind the term makes me think of a fairly set middle identity.

Genderqueer I feel includes people who are gender fluid, bigender, agender, androgyne, two spirit, third gender or any other gender that isn't "man or woman."

Quote from: Nygeel on March 21, 2011, 05:18:55 PM
I feel like genderqueer is a word like transgender that covers a bunch of different identities. I think that a person who identifies as androgyne feels both male and female. In my mind the term makes me think of a fairly set middle identity.

Genderqueer I feel includes people who are gender fluid, bigender, agender, androgyne, two spirit, third gender or any other gender that isn't "man or woman."

But in this forum, androgyne means what genderqueer means to you.

Like I said, it's different for every person.

(...I wasn't disagreeing with Nygeel...I just used their post to prove my point.  *opportunist* :laugh:)

Hi.

Im  androgynous,    a mix of both,   tho im accepted as a woman with very male features  some thing that will not change not at 63 . that s facal wise,    body wise as a normal woman. brain wise both male / female & can not be seperated as i think both ways at the same time  so when you get that worked out youll understand who i am.

as to sexual im a non sexual person so im different . of cause i do have my history & some is the same tho not all.
One of the details are ,  we are all different & we can not all be put in to just two boxs,   the just male or female ,

So what ever you are , or how ever you see your self,  be proud of that . enjoy life & be happy for who you are.

....... Whats in a name any way........

...noeleena....

Quote from: Jaimey on March 22, 2011, 01:13:54 AM
But in this forum, androgyne means what genderqueer means to you.

Like I said, it's different for every person.

(...I wasn't disagreeing with Nygeel...I just used their post to prove my point.  *opportunist* :laugh:)

I think that everywhere else it's the other way. Transgender websites are the one place where I've seen androgyne as an umbrella term and those sites (specifically here and one other site I'm on that uses androgyne) seem to be run by people of a different generation than I am.

(Preferred pronouns are male [he/him/his])

I'm in the boat with Nygeel, so I won't reiterate his explanation.  Yes, I quickly discovered that here androgyne is the umbrella term but in my head I think 'at Susan's, androgyne = genderqueer' if that makes any sense :P  To me, gq is much more fluid and encompassing.   But hey, to each their own :)  I'm sure that it's an age as well as geographical difference, among many other factors. 

http://www.toprockmusicvideos.com/the-who-my-generation-live-in-london-1967/ (http://www.toprockmusicvideos.com/the-who-my-generation-live-in-london-1967/)

Yeppers...some of us come from a different time and place, no doubt about that. The words and what they meant have changed over time. The generations before mine thought we were all crazy pot smoking, acid dropping, long haired freaks of nature. If you weren't Heterosexual, then you were a queer. people could go out and kick the ->-bleeped-<- out of them ->-bleeped-<-got queers, and nobody said a word. And God help you if you were a minority also. So the word means something else from my past. It took a long time for Gay to become the excepted term.
But, it's time for my generation to step back and let the younger generations run things. If you look at the world news, thats the next generations that are going to have to make the decisions they will, and after a while, the next generations will complain about them, too. And the words and terms will grow into different things for you, too.
My generation hasn't really been running much of anything lately, we're just kickin' back and watching the next one's learn how they are going to do it all. Because that's what's expected of each generation as it grows up.

I have been on three or four different transgender websites and "androgyne" was used the same in all of them, which is the way it's used here.  But like I said, we all come up with our own terms and use them the way we best see fit.  I honestly just don't think that "genderqueer" is a pretty word, so I don't use it.  I prefer "androgyne" because it feels better to me.  Other people might feel exactly opposite that.

This is the point of using an umbrella term...we'd have a thousand forums if every term got it's own.

Quote from: Jaimey on March 22, 2011, 09:39:12 PM
I honestly just don't think that "genderqueer" is a pretty word, so I don't use it.  I prefer "androgyne" because it feels better to me.

I'm with you, kid. Besides, I don't see anything "queer" about my gender; I came by it naturally.

S

I'd also say that "queer" has a connotation of sexuality/sexual preference, so it feels strange to me to place it with gender identity.

I tend to use 'genderqueer' when describing my gender to other people, purely because more gender-related stuff comes up when you search the internet (specifically YouTube) with it and it's just a more widely-used term in general. I don't like the word though, I think it sounds somehow less authentic, more made-up. Also I agree with the people who've said it seems like a kind of performance, pretty much all the contributors to sites about being genderqueer are female-bodied university students (e.g. Genderfork is possibly an extreme example), and it appears I fit that stereotype all too well but I worry that that might make it look like some fad I've got into instead of what it actually is.
In real life I think the word 'androgyne' refers more to people who look androgynous, and I certainly don't, I just identify this way. I get enough of the 'but that word doesn't mean that it means something else' shindig from explaining to people I am asexual and then having them insist that I'm using the term incorrectly. >.< Which annoys the heck out of me, so I avoid these misunderstandings as much as possible by using the least ambiguous term.

This is interesting to me, because I'd been staying out of this forum since I don't identify as androgynous, but genderqueer. And this is honestly the first time I've seen "androgynous" being used to describe a range of non-binary identities. To be androgynous, to me, is to be balanced between male and female. Having essentially equal characteristics of both or neither, simultaneously. It's like its own gender. Which is what I thought this section of the forum was about, hence my hesitation.

How I've seen "genderqueer" used, in contrast, is any bending/blending/subverting/questioning/rejection of binary gender. Thus, covering bi-gender and gender fluid identities as well as androgynous ones. I would personally feel uncomfortable describing myself as androgynous, because I'm first and foremost male, FTM. Simply, a gender bending man. Sometimes I present in an androgynous manner, but that's simply relevant to me in an aesthetic sense. I have no idea where all of the concepts of it as a performance are coming from. Gender->-bleeped-<- seems to fit that more, since that's a very extreme, in your face form. I just do this for comfort's sake. And, just so you are aware, I find calling genderqueer a purely conscious effort, a sort of performance, to be offensive.

"Queer" itself is so controversial, I think that's a lot of the problem. But I love the word. Yes, I'm from a young generation and I haven't had as many negative associations with it as I'm sure some of you have. But it's so fluid, and it's been used to represents every part of the LGBT etc community. It has no limits to it. It seems to me to at once represent unconventionality, pride, diversity, everyone who's been declared an outcast, everyone individual. Outside the mainstream, essentially. It's not uncommon that I'd rather ditch my long line of identities and just call myself queer.

The word used was 'androgyne' anyway - not androgynous. I don't think I would feel welcome in a forum labelled androgynous, cos I'm not, but androgyne, I'll go with that.

I think I can see the concern about seperating androgyne and androgynous.  But even androgynous means having both male and female characteristics which is pretty much what every human being who has ever walked this planet has been.  Androgynous doesn't have to mean ambiguous regarding gender, though the nature of people is we are all ambiguous, unltimately something is undefined about us, to ourselves to others.

I agree with what Juliet said

Well, I don't. I think she's just trying to hijack this thread. Or at the very least it's a cleverly thought out drift...

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 01, 2011, 02:43:44 AM
The word used was 'androgyne' anyway - not androgynous. I don't think I would feel welcome in a forum labelled androgynous, cos I'm not, but androgyne, I'll go with that.

I don't see the difference. Androgyne is the noun, androgynous is the adjective.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on May 01, 2011, 09:05:26 PM
I don't see the difference. Androgyne is the noun, androgynous is the adjective.

You're correct they are the same.
 
The reason for me at least is that androgynous has come to be associated with being undifferentiated, while Androgyne is free of the association and can more easily mean having traits of both genders to a high degree.

I'd really like to see androgynous to become commonly to mean anything from low in both gender traits to high in both.

In my mind androgynous has come to mean some skinny person with a slicked centre parting and cheek bones - usually pouting.

Androgyne means to me, a whole group of people who feel they are placed somewhere away from the two usual binary genders.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on April 30, 2011, 09:19:27 PM
I would personally feel uncomfortable describing myself as androgynous, because I'm first and foremost male, FTM. Simply, a gender bending man. Sometimes I present in an androgynous manner, but that's simply relevant to me in an aesthetic sense. I have no idea where all of the concepts of it as a performance are coming from. Gender->-bleeped-<- seems to fit that more, since that's a very extreme, in your face form. I just do this for comfort's sake. And, just so you are aware, I find calling genderqueer a purely conscious effort, a sort of performance, to be offensive.

And just so you are aware, Androgyne, Genderqueer, and other non-binary gendered people here find it offensive to have a binary gendered person trying to explain who and what we are to ourselves. It has been suggested, in the past, that if you don't understand non-binary thinking that your welcome to hang around and learn something about it. I suggest that instead of trying to define us to ourselves, that you should try to learn a little something about Androgyne and Genderqueer first. At least on this forum, for the sake of not arguing the point. It serves no purpose.

Some of you may already know that my hersband Sevan identifys as an androgyn.
Sevan see hirself as a blend of male and female. Ze incorperates that which is male and that which is female into one. In many ways ze is my wife and in others ze is more a husband. Being inbetween genders seems to be the state of being that Sevan thrives in most.

I have IRL friends who id as genderqueer. They are fluid in gender presentation and inner feelings. Most the time they seem to be happy to present in their birth gender but occasionly they will be in the other gender presentation or be in a gender->-bleeped-<- state.

Quote from: ativan on May 02, 2011, 10:17:09 AM
And just so you are aware, Androgyne, Genderqueer, and other non-binary gendered people here find it offensive to have a binary gendered person trying to explain who and what we are to ourselves. It has been suggested, in the past, that if you don't understand non-binary thinking that your welcome to hang around and learn something about it. I suggest that instead of trying to define us to ourselves, that you should try to learn a little something about Androgyne and Genderqueer first. At least on this forum, for the sake of not arguing the point. It serves no purpose.

Did you miss the part where I said I myself am genderqueer? It's my identity that was being called a performance, I think I have the right to express my discomfort with that and explain how I view it.

I would never argue something that I have no knowledge of. I've identified as genderqueer far longer than I've identified as FTM, and I've researched it and been active in the genderqueer community for over two years. And saying I don't understand non-binary thinking? Where on earth did you find in my post the idea that I only comprehend binary identities? You're making several assumptions there that you would have done well to clarify before attacking me.

The word androgyny comes from the latin word andro and gyn - man and woman respectively. So the textbook definition of androgyny would be a person with moth masculine and feminine qualities; both man and woman. (Different from "both male and female").

With that said I think of androgyny as exactly that: someone who identifies as both man and woman. Of course I take into consideration other people's interpretation of the word and wouldn't force that definition on anyone, that's just how I understand the word itself, not the person using it.

Genderqueer ... I think this word fits me best. I feel I portray both manly and womanly qualities, but I don't -feel- like either. I feel like just a human being with a certain reproductive anatomy, hormones, and chromosomes. I don't really think of myself as gendered at all most of the time.

I think the best thing we can do is not to try to define other people or challenge the term they're using.  That's one of the nice parts about this forum.  You can call yourself whatever you want and it's fine. 

Perhaps we should leave it at that?

Quote from: Jaimey on May 03, 2011, 05:03:38 PM
Perhaps we should leave it at that?

What?? And ruin a good thread?

Everybody has to call themselves by whatever I want them called, because ... well...ahh...I don't really have a reason

Dang it...I hate it when you're right...sheesh

Quote from: Laurry on May 04, 2011, 07:30:31 PM
Dang it...I hate it when you're right...sheesh

I do what I can.  :P

if we all agreed we'd have nothing to talk about.

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 07, 2011, 05:05:45 PM
if we all agreed we'd have nothing to talk about.

Troublemaker!  Peep!   :P

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 07, 2011, 05:05:45 PM
if we all agreed we'd have nothing to talk about.

Dang it!  I don't know whether to disagree with this and argue the point, or agree and looked like I was only trying to add to my post count.

Got any more comments that make one look foolish however they respond?


....you folks are good!

Quote from: Laurry on May 08, 2011, 06:37:48 AM
Dang it!  I don't know whether to disagree with this and argue the point, or agree and looked like I was only trying to add to my post count.

Got any more comments that make one look foolish however they respond?


....you folks are good!

I don't care which you do, so long as you keep the conversation going. It gets eerily quiet here when none of us post.

Confessing you feel foolish counts too. We all need frequent hugs and reassurance!

S

Instead of Androgyne or Genderqueer everyone here will be under the blanket term 'Laurry'.

I disagree. On everything.  Except Laurry being the official umbrella term for all things Not-100%-agreed-upon.

We are all Laurry it is decided.  :D

I know my therapist is going to happy with 'Laurry', she's been struggling with this ever since she met me.

Quote from: ativan on May 08, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
Instead of Androgyne or Genderqueer everyone here will be under the blanket term 'Laurry'.

resistance is futile   :laugh:

Since no one here can agree on a label, I foresee that some will choose to be yrrual...

Z

or Ruraly, maybe Raurly...

Quote from: ativan on May 09, 2011, 10:37:24 AM
or Ruraly, maybe Raurly...

ok now you are just malisiously trying to mix us up and cause division!  ;D

or diversion...

I've deliberately waited to see exactly where this conversation was going before I got out my stick and stirred it up again, but y'all got downright boring, so here it is...

As the Mastress (MASTer-mistRESS, not mattress though I do feel like a carpet as I get walked on so often  :D ), but as the Mastress of "all things Not-100%-agreed-upon" it behooves me to proclaim the following announcement:

Henceforth and forthwith, all things not 100% agreed upon must be discussed ad nauseum until such a time as the non-agreeing parties reach a definite conclusion or until we run out of smart-ass comments and it becomes boring.

Additionally, any such party that contends that all gendered or non-gendered persons, regardless of labels or non-labels, must look, act, speak and/or behave in a consistent or predetermined manner should be ridiculed until they cry or recant their assertions...with the exception of the Mastress of things not 100% agreed upon who is allowed to issue an occasional proclamation while performing the duties of their assigned position.  (Hopefully that allows me not to get in trouble for the preceding paragraphs.)

Thank you for your attention.  Had this been an actual proclamation, you would have been instructed which thread to tune to in your area in order to obtain further instructions.

Mastress Laurry

Well ridicule me now.

I think consistency is part of the test for authenticity.

Tell us more about this mattress thing with the hooves! I definetly think your headed in the right definition stage of real and imagined defines that may have been eluding us for all this time.

If not, then lets just hear about the mattress and hooves stuff, at least it sounds interesting enough to elaborate on.

OK, we have our MastRess, now we need a MistMast. Hmm, I guess I inadvertently volunteered for that position  ;D

Z

And so it shall ever be, or until its forgotten about. :laugh:

Keening Quings are exempt from MistMast privilege, and cranberry cheese.

LOL! LOL..

Will there be spankings?   :icon_eyebrow:

 :eusa_pray:

Quote from: ativan on May 10, 2011, 05:04:23 PM
Tell us more about this mattress thing with the hooves!

Regarding mattresses, the tough part about being androgyne is that one is never sure if they are supposed to be the horse or the jockey.  And then again, sometimes they just watch while drinking mint juleps and wearing their most gawd-awful hat.

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 10, 2011, 04:58:57 PM
I think consistency is part of the test for authenticity.

What does it mean when one is consistently inconsistent?

And one other thing...should we tie Z to the MistMast, or make them walk the plank?  Arrrgh

Quote from: Laurry on May 10, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
And one other thing...should we tie Z to the MistMast, or make them walk the plank?  Arrrgh

I MissedMass  :D

Quote from: Laurry on May 10, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
Regarding mattresses, the tough part about being androgyne is that one is never sure if they are supposed to be the horse or the jockey.  And then again, sometimes they just watch while drinking mint juleps and wearing their most gawd-awful hat.

What does it mean when one is consistently inconsistent?

And one other thing...should we tie Z to the MistMast, or make them walk the plank?  Arrrgh

The decision to be the horse or the jockey is usually determined by whether you're consistently inconsistent or inconsisitently consistent

Mint Julep is going to be a character in one of my stories...it's a got to.

Never throw away a good anyone, once you have them willingly tied to the MistMast.

Go to the mattresses!!! :)

Whoa !!  Where am I ?   :icon_suspicious:

In the Forest, not to far from the rope swing!

The rope swing above the creek filled with playful pan-gendered critters that have moved here to get away from their original toxic habitat of strict gender enforcement and societal/religious condemnation.

Can two of us use the swing at the same time?

I'd like to take turns with everyone if we can!  :)

Do you pronounce creek as in crick like brick or like creak as in beak. Just wondering what kind of accent you have.

Creek - to rhyme with beak.
Niche - to rhyme with quiche.
Neizsche - to rhyme with teach-ya. (Though he won't.)

Quote from: ativan on May 11, 2011, 08:02:51 AM
consistently inconsistent or inconsisitently consistent

One of them will do fine.

Crick as a brick

Generally, I say creek (rhymes with beak), but depending on how I feel, or who I'ma speakin' to, I recon I use crick as often as not.  I'm somewhat bi-lingual and can speak both English and Redneck. 

I used to live in a small town just west of N. Platte Nebraska. If you didn't belong to the John Birch Society, you were an outsider. Talk about Redneck. Of course I ended up OK when I told them I wasn't a Communist, just a long haired Harley Rider. I taught a few of the ol' farm boys how to roll a decent joint. But I still had to talk redneck. Go Big Red!!

A lot of people from Ontario say crick.  I bet you find that very interesting, don't you  LOL

Canadians can be rednecks too.  Except when they say "aboot"  :o

In Kentucky, it's like "creak."  :D 


I also pronounce "wash" correctly...all my life I heard "warsh" and "worsh." 

I saw wash as 'wosh'.

I wish someone would do my wash (whaush)

Quote from: ativan on May 15, 2011, 06:00:05 PM
I wish someone would do my wash (whaush)

As long as they don't stick an 'r' in it.  :police:

Well you would want it done properly if you did...

I always thought androgyne was the physical aspect of basically being able to have your gender defined in public depending on how you dressed and acted and genderqueer being the mental side.

And now what do you think?

Quote from: Moxie F. on May 20, 2011, 08:01:42 PM
I always thought androgyne was the physical aspect of basically being able to have your gender defined in public depending on how you dressed and acted and genderqueer being the mental side.

Funny, I see it the opposite way round...there being no firm fix on the words, but there are still some unified concepts (androgyny of the mind as separate to that of the body) that we feel ought to have different words to express.

Quote from: Moxie F. on May 20, 2011, 08:01:42 PM
I always thought androgyne was the physical aspect of basically being able to have your gender defined in public depending on how you dressed and acted and genderqueer being the mental side.

And now what do you think? Personally, I see it much the same as Pica. And there seems to be a large amount of confusion about the definitions of Androgyne and androgynous. I'm Androgyne, Whatever I am wearing is therefore Androgyne. Not Androgynous. Thats presenting yourself as androgynous. A mix of the binaries. Androgyne is about Gender. Androgynous is about presenting. Whether it is for yourself, or as a fashion statement, it is androgynous. But! if an Androgyne is presenting in an androgynous way, then they look androgyne. Not androgynous. The younger Androgynes seem to use the term Genderqueer in the same manner as older people use Androgyne. I would assume to differentiate themselves from those who present in a charade sort of way, as androngynous.

I read the last half of your post 7 or 8 times and I think I finally get it. It's me.... not you. Seriously.

i was described as genderqueer for the first time about a week ago and thought it was kinda odd and funny at the same time. i still dont know what exactly it was meant to come across as, but i'm thinking that it meant i have no true concrete gender.i'm very...fluid....its hard to explain.but anyways, thats me in a nutshell hence why it came across as funny.

Have you tried on Genderfluid? This is a good place to explain those things that are hard to. But beware...putting yourself in a box is not always the right place to be.

i getcha....have you/are you on Ativan by any chance? i have.lol

I keep some for emergency use, like when shopping. I switched to klonopin awhile back, once I got used to it, it seems like a better overall med. Especially at bedtime. I haven't tried chewing one to get it to work faster, if it even does. Anxiety has put me in some bad places, it's a PTSD kinda thing. Plus I'm all those other fun axis II things.

ah...i'm scizo effect, bipolar and borderline personality disorder. i'm pretty severe but i was on the wrong dose of klonoprin and it knocked me out. ativan never worked for me. i'm on Depakote and halidol now.

Depakote always weirds me out, and they won't give me halidol because I severly OD'd myself on it. I slashed my wrist and started to go down when a marine sargent just back from Afganistan caught me. Guy was awesome, stayed with me to the ER they told me. A week in IC and then guess where I got to spend 90 days.........

fun. i tried to kill myself in april by downing a bottle of my halidol and it was supposed to knock me straight out, but it didnt. i spent a week in the hospital and then they let me go. but i'm paying for it now. i'm stuck in a group home....

3 hospitals later, then locked down in the violent ward at the state hospital for 4 months, then 90 days in a treatment center.
Now I'm in Foster care, mostly because I forget to eat and take my meds. When I go for walks I have to have a cell phone so they can call me if I'm overdue. Things are much better, nobody worries to much. 2 yrs this August. Court recommendation is permanent residence here, but it is just being here and the people who care for me that have gotten me farther than I may have been in the last 20 or so yrs.
That and being able to read and talk about gender issues here at Susan's. Life is good.

jeez you must be a minor right? thats why. my sister had alot of the same problems and she spent 4 years bouncing between hospitals and foster care families. i was a legal adult when my crap started. that is aweful. but atleast your optimistic.thats a good sign. i try to be but my life is in chaos.

The thread got a bit offtopic so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to go back to the topic at hand...

I get many of the same impressions regarding the meaning of "androgyne" and "genderqueer" as many other people on here. I have always seen genderqueer as combining, subverting, mixing things that in our world are gendered. More fluid.

Androgyne for me is not really fluid. I identify as androgyne because I am neither male nor female. I am not a combination either. I am simply none of the above. If I have to be a combination, I am a homogenous mixture, not heterogenous. I have very little awareness and understanding about how certain behaviours, appearances, and objects are gendered male or female. I know it logically, that a dress is gendered female, but it doesn't apply to me. When I am more gentle and kind, I am not acting "feminine." When I am more assertive and want to ride a motorcycle, I am not acting "masculine."

I reject the label of genderqueer for myself because to me, it implies that there is a gender to "queer", a gender to blur and to subvert. But for me, there is no gender, I don't have a gender to play with in the first place.

Caseyy,
Are you familiar with the gender term 'nutrois'?

Neither male nor female, nor a blend of the two. Being without gender.

Androgyn is both male and female in one person.

cynthialee - I've heard of the term before. I've looked up a little bit about it to see if it might fit me better than androgyne, but I'm not really sure if it does.

Perhaps just "genderless," then? Neutrois is fairly close... but I've often seen it being used to describe gender-neutral or gender-irrelevant (is that the right term?) people rather than people who are outside of gender spectrums entirely.

Are any of you familiar with the site genderqueer.tumblr.com? The interpretations of the term there are incredibly varied, I think it's interesting to see how differently some people define it.

Personally... I think I confused people when I said I identify mostly as male, yet still consider myself genderqueer. For me, there's a difference between my body identity and my mental identity. I'm uncomfortable having a female body, much more comfortable now that I'm on testosterone. Because female pronouns make me aware of my physical self, I don't like people to use them in reference to me. However, mentally I don't think I'm much more male than female. I'm somewhat genderfluid, I definitely have the occasional day when I'll wake up and just feel female... I don't mind looking and acting stereotypically male, but I'm also comfortable looking and acting stereotypically female, I even desire it. I don't much care at this point how people perceive me, I enjoy seeming ambiguous, as long as I'm binding I'm comfortable.
That fluidity delayed my transition, because I wanted to make sure on my female-leaning days I would still be comfortable with a male body and social interactions. My precise mental gender is still somewhat uncertain to me, but I'm okay with that. Bit of a faux pas, I suppose, linking my declared gender to my physical identity rather than mental, but it's a pain in the ass to explain otherwise. "Genderqueer guy" is so much easier.

Quote from: 904-boy on May 26, 2011, 07:45:14 PM
jeez you must be a minor right? thats why. my sister had alot of the same problems and she spent 4 years bouncing between hospitals and foster care families. i was a legal adult when my crap started. that is aweful. but atleast your optimistic.thats a good sign. i try to be but my life is in chaos.

I'm a 58 yr old minor......25 yrs ago I started to change, the last 10yrs has been all the hospitals and such. But now that I'm on Spiro, maybe I have the hormones of a 10 yr old?  Haha, I don't know...

Quote from: Nikolai_S on May 29, 2011, 03:19:35 PM
Personally... I think I confused people when I said I identify mostly as male, yet still consider myself genderqueer. For me, there's a difference between my body identity and my mental identity.

You confused me. Sorry.

It's okay, I wasn't paying enough attention to my wording. I understand how my post could be misunderstood.

If you wish to understand what the word Neutrois actually means, what a Neutrois really is, and how the term came into being, go to the original source:
http://neutrois.0catch.com/defin.htm (http://neutrois.0catch.com/defin.htm)
http://neutrois.0catch.com/faq.htm (http://neutrois.0catch.com/faq.htm)

-Emerald

A lot of people describe that one as genderfluid, like a sort of blobby, lava lamp of gender.

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 30, 2011, 03:44:53 AM
A lot of people describe that one as genderfluid, like a sort of blobby, lava lamp of gender.

Other than the lava lamp, this was one of the things that crossed my mind.

Was listening to a John Waters interview on NPR the other night--he was talking about being heteroflexible. Kinda liked the extension to gender: genderflexible.  In my mind, this plays nicely against what I see as a preference for rigid binary choices in society as a whole. Just saying.

Quote from: cynthialee on May 29, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
Androgyn is both male and female in one person.

I identify as androgyne and that's not how I see it, which is the point of this thread in the first place.  That's what androgyne is to you.

I'm not trying to be a dick, btw.  I just wanted to restate that the terms are different to different people.

I like genderflexible - not for me, but as a term for someone.

It is rather nice.

I used to take a supplement marketed as Osteobiplex. How about Gendermultiplex? sounds a bit like a movie chain...but just imagine the possibilities....


Offer valid only where Sara Palin isn't popular. Must be 18 years or older to particpate. Warning: The surgeon general has advised your mileage may vary.

Hah!  :icon_weee:

I'm gonna flex my gender all over the place.  :icon_bumdance-nerd:

well, make sure you are in a sou wester first and an anorak (preferably yellow)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_6QKi6X7JRqA%2FTH9r1D6SSSI%2FAAAAAAAACCM%2FzNnyKbvUZug%2Fs400%2FIMG_0872.jpg&hash=4391a7062da28ceb9e90b8757fe2120bb8894e24)
(but less girly if ya wish)

...or maybe it's the all-new breakfast cereal, GenderFlecks™ - packed with crunchy flecks of BoyGal (pat. pending).

Got Flecks?

Now that the word has rolled around in the round places of my head, gender flexible does seem like a term of sorts. Gender fluid would be the similar phrase. Genderfluid, Genderflex. Hmm...

Anyone care to make a top ten list of terms/names?

Unicorn...whose missing the "horn."  >:-)  *ba dum dum.

androgyne is to me what the word says, "manwoman". both, but not necessarily in a 50/50 or 70/30 ratio. could just as well be 80/70 or 10/10. gives me the freedom to just be, when i earlier thought i had to choose either or

genderqueer sounds to me more like a way to express gender in some way, be it one or both or the other or whichever. usually i don't come off as, or try to express any gender in particular, even if my sex is easily identifiable, so i'm not sure it's a good term for me to use about myself

I use the term genderqueer more often.  I have always understood it as (while it can apply to an individual in their own unique way) it means someone who may or may not identify with their birth gender, and expresses themselves not by traditional means of gender.  Like a boy who likes wearing makeup and boys clothes, or a boy who identifies as a girl, but likes to dress like a dyke. 

Androgynous I always thought meant like you cannot tell what gender they are by looking at them or they dress very in between.  However since I have been on this Androgynous forum I have found that Androgynous can be used to mean that and other non transsexual gender variant identities.

Genderfudge I usually see as just another made up identity that means the same as like genderqueer, and just is a more rebellious thing to call someone.

As far as queer being seen as an insult.  In High School I was called queer and ->-bleeped-<- alot.  Well ->-bleeped-<- other than meaning a cigarette or a bundle of sticks, was not used to refer to gay people in any way but an insult.  Queer however, means different or strange, or unique, or gay, or LGBT.  So I like the word queer.  I can call myself queer without having to conform to some specific way of being different.

Quote from: KittyLondon273 on June 21, 2011, 02:39:46 AM
I use the term genderqueer more often.  I have always understood it as (while it can apply to an individual in their own unique way) it means someone who may or may not identify with their birth gender, and expresses themselves not by traditional means of gender.  Like a boy who likes wearing makeup and boys clothes, or a boy who identifies as a girl, but likes to dress like a dyke. 

Androgynous I always thought meant like you cannot tell what gender they are by looking at them or they dress very in between.  However since I have been on this Androgynous forum I have found that Androgynous can be used to mean that and other non transsexual gender variant identities.

But, if you notice, we are not calling ourselves androgynous, we are calling ourselves androgyne.

I see.  Well don't they have the same definition?  I thought Androgyne was like used to refer to the way of being itself, and androgynous is how you describe a person.

There tends to be a different definition.
Personally, I see it thus...

An androgyne is a noun, meaning a person who feels neither male nor female, or a blend of both or something else.
Androgynous is an adjective describing a look that is usually pointy chinned and elflike.

Hahaha.  Elf like?  You so crazy!  I know what you mean though.  However really words are what you make of them.  That is why it is dumb when people argue over what words are okay to use and not okay to use.  Not that, that is what you are doing, that was just an example.  Haha.  <3

If words were what we made of them, we wouldn't be able to communicate at all.

Well I meant generally.  Like that is how slang works.  Someone can say you look sick.  It could mean disgusting, it could mean ill, or it could mean cool.  When it is originally used to mean ill or so that is how it was most commonly used back in my day.  Haha.  You know way back in nineeeteeen ninety eight!

Applying odd definitions to words makes them fairly useless in communication. Slang is deception. People use it to try and one up the social ladder by using it.
The weird and basicly useless slang words always fall to the way side, as do some climbing that social ladder. Oops! missed a rung.