Today marks one week that I've been on HRT, low dose of Estradiol and super low dose of Spiro and the only changes I've felt have been very negative and I'm worried.
Since I started it's seemed like I've been more angry, I haven't been too concerned about it because everyone has off days/weeks, but it only seems to be getting worse. The anger hasn't been like a normal anger for me, it's been more like a rage and today it has been super bad.
I actually tried to start a fist fight with a guy in traffic about an hour ago, this is completely out of charachter for me....I've never done anything remotely close to that...full on out of the car ready to throw down! It's pretty terrifying, I feel out of control.
Has anyone else ever experienced something like this when starting HRT? I'm starting to consider stopping if this is how it's going to be, my mind feels like it's not my own...... this is not how I am or have ever been.
~Sara
... I forgot, I've also noticed I've had a lot more erections than what is normal for me, should I be worried about that aswell?
I seriously doubt that it is due to the low spiro and/or low estro? but let me do some checking.
Stay frosty,
Kate
People whose brains are set up to run on androgens usually experience an increase in aggression when the levels fall. It's one reason why middle aged men approaching the fabled andropause often become moody and aggressive. In the wild it is a way of warning off the younger challenger who, if they get too close, will scent the falling levels and realise that the dominant male is failing.
A usually mild mannered male friend of ours who had to have his androgen levels rapidly lowered to treat prostate cancer became, for a while, a raging bull with temper like a bear with a sore head.
The good news is that the effect is only temporary, and eventually the estrogen will rewire your brain.
So don't give up - it may take a few months to settle, but settled down it will. Meanwhile do monitor your blood levels and keep adjusting the regimen to get the results you want.
As for the erections, it's probably like salmon jumping waterfalls before they die :)
After some fast fingering through the literature, what I can offer is as follows: You still have high T (due to the low spiro), add a bit of estro; and you trigger the rage. Paradoxically in male brains T is converted into E to mediate aggressive behavior. Solution is to drastically increase the spiro (or get an orchi), or eliminate the E.
Kate
The body's hormone regulation system is very complicated, but for the most part its function boils down to trying to maintain homeostasis (that is, keep all the levels pretty much the same, and keep the balance among different hormones the same).
When you perturb it slightly, it'll try to compensate. Lower your testosterone just a little bit? It'll make more. Raise your estrogen just a little bit? Again, it'll make more androgens. The amount it can compensate is limited by the availability of certain key chemicals and by the number of receptors for various hormones used to send signals. It can compensate for small changes pretty effectively; larger changes can overwhelm it and force it to adjust to a new homeostasis. If the doses you're taking aren't large enough to overwhelm your body's natural regulation system, they're not going to have the intended effect, and in fact may have the opposite effect.
Add to that the fact that your brain can respond rather oddly to changes in your neurochemistry. It's not always predictable. For some women, birth control pills stabilize mood; for others, they precipitate debilitating depression. It's pretty much a given that a hormone change is likely to trigger a mood change, but exactly what that change will be is unpredictable.
In other words, what you're experiencing now isn't necessarily what you can expect from HRT in the long term. But you probably should get with your doctor and explain your concerns and have your levels checked.
Yeah, what Kyril said rings a bell. After my first month on low dose E my T level shot up from my baseline of 265 to 446. However in the second month after my E was raised a bit, my T dropped to 117 or something like that. I do think you should let your doctors know though.
What were your E & T baseline levels before starting HRT?
Hormones affect everyone differently as our physiology is unique to each individual. So it could be related, but it's not the normal effect especially considering the short time and low dosage.
Quote from: JennX on March 16, 2011, 04:22:22 PM
What were your E & T baseline levels before starting HRT?
Hormones affect everyone differently as our physiology is unique to each individual. So it could be related, but it's not the normal effect especially considering the short time and low dosage.
They didn't check any of my levels before starting me, I asked and they said they don't check, just assume everything is in a normal range they just checked liver/kidney function and I assume they checked for clotting. It's a tg clinic, so I assume they know what to do, but there is no endo, just NP's
What others have said does make some sense, but I'm no sure how long I should put up with things before contacting the clinic, I'm not due back for another appt. there for 3 months.
Quote from: Miss_Anthropic on March 16, 2011, 05:05:10 PM
They didn't check any of my levels before starting me, I asked and they said they don't check, just assume everything is in a normal range they just checked liver/kidney function and I assume they checked for clotting. It's a tg clinic, so I assume they know what to do, but there is no endo, just NP's
That's not good. Clinic or not. There has to be some sort of starting point of T & E in order to gauge your progress. As for the definition of "assume" I take it you're familiar with that one. Also the dosage they prescribed you may be "low" as compared to median or average normally prescribed to the masses, but if your E level was very high to start with for example, it may have been too much. See what I'm getting at here? They really should have tested your blood, and it should be tested every 3 months for the first year to be on the safe side (Estradiol, Testosterone [Total + Free], Potassium, and Liver function). Just saying.
That's kind of how I felt, but I feel like my hands are tied there. I can't force them to check and I doubt I can get an appt. before June anyhow. I just don't really know what to do and that scares me to death. This change in mood has cause all kinds of problems, I had to leave work today because of it and there is only so much they will put up with, same goes with friends and family.... things are very strained at the moment. There is only so much I can tell them anyhow as I'm not out to any of them.
The dysphoria is stronger than has ever been right now and the one thing that should be my saviour is causing me to be more like "him"; I feel so awful right now :(
~Sara
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 16, 2011, 10:40:53 AM
People whose brains are set up to run on androgens usually experience an increase in aggression when the levels fall.
Wow, I have the exact opposite experience. Everything relaxed and I felt completely incapable of getting too mad. Nothing is bothering me.
Starting HRT was the best decision of my life, but locking back I did get a bit nutty during the first month. I don't know how much was the HRT and how much was all the reality I was dealing with concerning the decision I had to make regarding my life, family, business, etc.
I started on a low "no commitment" dose too. It didnt take long to realize I needed more.
Coming up on four months into I am now at a full (not low trial) dose and life has not been better. My mood has been even and my wife has been a lot happier and accepting. It's actually feeling a bit like things might work out. I am actually looking forward to being a chick....lol
Sounds scary! I'm pretty mellow hope it doesnt turn me into the hulk
Quote from: Miss_Anthropic on March 16, 2011, 05:05:10 PM
They didn't check any of my levels before starting me, I asked and they said they don't check, just assume everything is in a normal range
If you ever manage to get your levels checked, I'm sure that clinic will find the skill of "hindsight" to be very valuable. My guess is that your levels weren't normal, and now you are imbalanced.
The good news is that the roid rage won't last forever. The bad news is that it's impossible to predict how long it will last until you get your levels checked to make sure you have the dosage that is right for you and to rule out any other complications.
Quote from: VeryGnawty on March 20, 2011, 01:15:38 AM
If you ever manage to get your levels checked, I'm sure that clinic will find the skill of "hindsight" to be very valuable. My guess is that your levels weren't normal, and now you are imbalanced.
The good news is that the roid rage won't last forever. The bad news is that it's impossible to predict how long it will last until you get your levels checked to make sure you have the dosage that is right for you and to rule out any other complications.
I'm due back in June for blood tests and I fully intend to make it known how their method has been less than productive for me.
In other news, things have leveled out a lot after me upping my spiro dose a bit. I still feel no effects at all from the E, but it's only two weeks in. I'm going to try and contact the clinic and see if they will up my script to match what I'm taking now, thankfully I had some spiro already on hand; my original prescription still hasn't been filled since they forgot to write the directions on it and haven't called the pharmacy back....2 weeks later >:l
It feels nice not to be the hulk anymore :)
Sara
Hi Sara,
I am so glad to hear that things are calming down for you, I was a little worried!
I've been on spiro for about 8 months now (but no E) and I did notice at first it felt like my T went up a little. But things stabalized again for me luckily, actually improved.
When I went off spiro for about a month to do the whole cryo freezing of my sperm thing the T coming back made me crazy for about a week. I was much more stressed out, aggressive, and depressed. It was a dark cloud over me for about 7-10 days, and then things started to be more manageable. Even though I didn't like the higher level of T in my system, I can say it did stabilize a bit and it was more manageable. All done with that and back on my spiro now for a couple weeks.
Anyway, all that to say that I think it just takes time to adjust and you have to do exactly what you did and try and figure out what it was. I'm so glad you are feeling better!
Quote from: Miss_Anthropic on March 20, 2011, 08:29:54 PM
It feels nice not to be the hulk anymore :)
Sara
Sara,
Hang in there! My first month, a half dose of the HRT regimen, the second to now, a full dose. The first 3 days: Some anxiety into starting HRT, no different attitude than before starting HRT. After that to 2 weeks, my libido started to wane and my attitude started to improve. 2 weeks and beyond: the multiple per day painful unvoluntary erections I had most of my adult life was squelched, my boobs started to get sore. I didn't notice my attitude change until 1 1/2 months into HRT when I did one of those slight boo-boos and was no longer cursing myself over it. I am also much older than you, judging by your avatar. That's probably the different reaction to the HRT.
my case it was the prostate problem was the the trigger to start the HRT, my GID anxiety, secondary. A PSA test in a few weeks will determine that I should have that risky biopsy for cancer after 5 years of the high PSA numbers. A new, much more accurate test for prostate cancer is in review by the FDA and it is there to augment, not replace the PSA and to decrease those nasty anal biopsies and their side effects!
Joelene
It feels nice not to be the hulk anymore :) I never was, even though I tried!
Give it some time. It's your body trying to figure things out. Everyones body is different. However, the basics are the same. REJEN is right though. If you check my blog you'll see I was going a little nutty too at the beginning. I couldn't explain it...but then I had a "duh" moment. I waited and then it subsided.
As far as the GID goes, YEP, it'll be tough at times because your brain will eventually feel female and will not like the reflection in the mirror. You just have to tell yourself that this is part of it as well. Think about the fact that you are on your way to freedom! You'll have a few bumps along the way, but it's worth it. I'm almost at 6 months and I still have very strong GID issues. I want things to happen yesterday, but life isn't like that. Try to enjoy those moments when you feel like YOU. I try to envision myself already there and that helps out a lot.
If you feel like pm'ing me as well feel free to do so. As others have been there for me, I can be there for you (and any others).
I'm no doctor but I wonder about low dosage of spiro being the cause? My doc started me on spiro only (slowly ramping it uo) to get the T blocking part going before he throws E into the mix. Years ago I tried e only and had results close to what you described after one day of use and quit taking it. So far this time, spiro only for about 6 weeks has calmed me down and made me way less aggressive. It's also taken away the "desperate" part of my sex drive, which is a welcome change.
The fact it your sex drive has increased along with your aggression, sounds like your body has cranked up T production fighting off this low dose you are on. If you decided to stop taking them, maybe try dropping the E for a day or so, stay on the spiro and see how that feels? I REALLY think you should contact this clinic if this medication is going to make you yank someone out of a car to fight!
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I agree with you Stephe, I've been on a larger Spiro only dose in the past and things were never anything like how they were when this happened, they were pretty much exactly how you described your Spiro only experience. After the few hulk like days I upped my Spiro and things went back to normal for me quickly, so I'm fairly positive that's what did it.
In other news, I've started to notice some slight physical changes...I'm excited! :D
~Sara