Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was interviewed by a professor from Brock University today with regards to a continuing research project she is heading called "Queering identity and space: Trans-folk and gay and lesbian space".  It was a great interview covering many topics.  One issue we covered was the "T" in LBGTQ, specifically "Do you see trans issues as rightfully part of the LGBTQ political agenda?

So what do you think - Do you see trans issues as rightfully part of the LGBTQ?

Steph

Definitely not!  Our interests are totally different from theirs, but somehow some of us like to be under *their wing* to protest and fight for *our* rights.  Let's keep in mind that everything they do revolve around sex and NOT gender.  Just my humble opinion.



tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I answered no, but with reservations, although it's more of a "yes and no" type answer.  The fact of the matter is, that a high percentage of transsexuals end up being either bi or gay/lesbian.  In that sense, yes we are part of the political agenda.  Now I have seen 2 straight women post ahead of me, so being bi, I'm taking a different point of view.  In all other regards though, correcting a medical condition should not NEED to have special protection just to give us the same rights as others who were lucky enough not to be born with such a condition, nor politics to give us that protection.  Our agenda in getting back to a normal life is much different than the normal lifelong agenda of gays/lesbians.

Melissa

I voted NO as I believe that we have apples and oranges here. Yes we are in a minority status, but with totally different  views. It is like everything else. Some of us might be part of the GLB but some of us are straight. Sex is not what we look for, it is our view of ourselves and who we are and not who we want to be with. We have our own little agenda that we need to be filled. It isn't sexual at all. Society has put us in the sex catagory and its because of drag queens and kings. Everyone thinks we are just people who want to dress in drag. Now, this is my opinion and I could be wrong so don't come down on me too hard. If it had to do with sex and who my partner is, well, I would not have had surgery, I would have stayed male and dressed. That wasn't me, I wasn't male. I haven't had sex in over 5 years now, except for when I did it myself to see if I could orgasm. I could and that was it. I'm married to my partner and I love her and if we ever split up, I don't know who I would go after. I would probably go after another woman as I do not like men. It isnt even in the cards right now. Like I said I'm married and will stay with her until death does one of us in. I know plenty of Gay and Lesbians, but we do not have the same issues as they do. We can get married if we do it right. They can't. They don't have any problem with gender issues, we do or some of us do. I dont anymore, but there are still those, like ftom who do and some who have opted out of surgery. A gay or lesbian is not noticiable like so many of us are, unless they are outed. But we need each other as a union for allies like we need other groups also. Alone we will not win anything, but with others we have clout and can get things done.
Just my opinions here.
Sheila

Um, what is the Q supposed to stand for here? I am intersexed - I think that's a legitimate part of LBGTI rights, but not being a drag queen. Is this supposed to stand for ->-bleeped-<-s? I don't think they are a part either.

I answered yes. Our goals are tertiary, but still a part. Educating gay people as to why we belong is also part of it.

Bri

Quote from: Brianna on January 19, 2007, 02:57:37 PM
Um, what is the Q supposed to stand for here?

Queer.  It basically is somebody who is not quite sure where they fall in sexual orientation other than knowing they are not straight.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on January 19, 2007, 03:03:51 PM
Queer.  It basically is somebody who is not quite sure where they fall in sexual orientation other than knowing they are not straight.

Uhmmmmmm.... I think that's frankly stupid. Maybe I'm missing it, but how does being queer not fall under being bisexual or gay?

Being intersex is a much more valid problem. Did you know that many OBGYNs feel free to butcher us?

Brilala

I said no, with Reservations....

The GLB stands for one thing.... being T or I for another....
I agree that we should work with them, but at the same time we shouldnt be grouped with them.... I actualy have a harder time with gay people and Dragqueens as to transitioning than I do with the rest of the populace.....  they just done get it and they fight harder as to why your wrong...  atleast the ones I know do anyways....

Just like women and those of affrican decent had to fight for there civil rights, we do as well... were not necicarily the same, but some of us are and we are all after the same thing.... acceptance, and not just the right, but the enforced right to live our lives safely and peacably and to be ourselves with out fear of persicution....

I answered "yes, with reservations".  I suppose I have to explain.

First, the reservations--as others have pointed out and as all of us know so well, sexual orientation and gender are not the same thing.  That is a pretty big reservation.

Why "yes"?  Well, in a perfect world, where each of us was treated for who we are and not dumped into some category to justify mistreatment or abuse, there would be no reason for gays, lesbians, transsexuals, crossdressers, and all the rest of us who are considered "queer" by society to band together to protect our dignity and demand just treatment by society.  In a perfect world we would all be treated justly, there would be no stereotyping and no discrimination.  But that is not the world we live in and unfortunately it never will be.  We live in a world of fallible and morally imperfect human beings who do not always see one another as who they are and do not always treat one another fairly or kindly.  Society has lumped all of us queers together, because it sees all us as different since we challege the social norm of what a man and a woman should be.  According to social norms, men are not supposed to kiss one another and they are not supposed to wear dresses; women should not fall in love with other women and they should not try to act like men.  Sexual orientation, crossdressing, and transsexualism all challenge the social norms of gender.  We need to make common cause with all who are gender-variant, not because we are homosexual but because we are all discriminated against for basically the same reason.  Aligning with the GLBTQ spectrum not only gives us more numbers to support the political cause of fighting for equal rights, it also gives us a sense of solidarity that we are not in this alone.  Minority groups often have a tendency to fragment once some members of the group achieve some measure of recognition by the society at large.  This fragmentation does not serve the interests of those of us who are in the discriminated against minority.  It serves the interests of those who discriminate.  As individuals we are each of us unique and different from all others.  As individuals we are also powerless to change social perceptions and to rectify injustice.  By forming common cause with others like us who are also subject to misperception and injustice we can try to rectify that situation.  Political power comes from union not fragmentation.  The LGBTQ coalition is a political coalition.  Dividing it makes it less effective.

Hi everyone,

I said NO. Other than our minority status, we really share no interests. In fact we should change our name from transsexual to wrongbodied and get the word sex completely out it. Our sexuality is a completely separate issue.

Love always,
Elizabeth

there was some interesting dialogue a while back Taylor had started when he mentioned an annual get together for ts/is/andrgy.. etc and he had asked if the gay/lesbian folks should be invited and the responses were mixed as well.
I personally do not care although we face this issue of not being a large group thus having less of a voice, less resources, etc.. But to congeal in with another group with different issues would that mask some of our own issues and goals and information we need to get out?  In this respect i say my answer is no we should not intermix..
from a perspective of collaberation and combining resources the gay/bi/lesbian movement has signifigant resources financially and politically.... So would then my answer be maybe yes from this view?
Yes and no is my answer then..
sorry i am in the middle somewhere as to how i feel on this?  always seem to find myself in the middle some days?? :-\
Ricki

"Yes with reservations"

As I see it the focus of LGBTQI(insert your letter) isn't on sex or gender for any of us. The focus is on discrimination because something that is a part of who we are. Is it more helpful to our cause to splinter ourselves into 6 small interest groups each fighting our own battles or is it more helpful to our cause to find common cause with anyone facing the same kind of discrimination and fight that with one larger common front with each unique interest group represented by their letter?

PFLAG and some others use 'Q' to mean 'Questioning,' people who aren't yet sure about their gender identity or sexual orientation or both.

Robyn
Secretary, PFLAG Transgender Network

Yes with reservations.

We do have different problems and goals from LGB people, but frankly, without them, we would be less heard of.
Having T in LGBT(QI etc) shows the general public that we have, at least to some extent, been accepted into a larger community, and I think that's a good thing.

I said Yes, with reservations.

Present society equates sex with gender.

THe LGBTQ community does not fall within society's norms regarding sex, gender and orientation.  We're not wrong, I hasten to add.  Just different.

As such, we need to work together to expand society's understanding and acceptance of sex, gender and orientation.

I see the LGB and T communities as being Ying and Yang to each other.  Both different, and yet both being complimentary to each other.

Chaunte

I answered yes. I was already involved in the GLBTIQ community for many years when I came out as transgendered. In fact, I can still remember the disagreements over adding B  >:( In the early days of the movement, there was considerable friction between G and L as well. Every community under the GLBTIQ umbrella has certain distinct issues and needs that the others might not share. While some trans issues are unique to us from the others, there is also some overlap. Often femme gay men or butch lesbian women are discriminated against because of perceived gender transgressions, not only because of their sexual orientation. Other examples of overlap include if an m2f trans person wishes to stay with her female partner post srs, this is then considered to be a lesbian relationship, and their marriage is illegal in almost all US states.

I answered yes because this effects me on a personal level. I am not only transgender, I am also bi and in a longterm "lesbian" (or perhaps I should call it a transbian?) relationship. The bottom line is that all of us, whether G, L, B, T, I or anything else, are being discriminated against for being who we are. My hope is that we have a better chance at ending our second class status working together than apart.

zythyra

yes with reservations

i'm a lesbian transsexual and i'm in a relationship with a mtf transsexual. all of my gay and lesbian friends have been [very accepting and supportive]. i've found that generally acceptance is [pretty common], but like any community, there is some [small-mindedness].   there are a few gays and lesbians who seem [to take issue with transsexuals], or with my partner and i considering ourselves to be lesbians. homosexuality challenges gender roles in many ways, and to be a homosexual and criticize transsexuals for their gender bending is [rather backwards] in terms of logic because it supports the notion that there is only one [real] way to be a man or woman, and that gender roles should be fixed as opposed to fluid, a notion that homosexuals have always challenged.

no.

There was no yes without reservations option :P

Yes with no reservations. Lots of people can't tell the difference between sexual and gender variance, and our fates and interests are intertwined.

Yes for me because for me I feel that as a whole it incorporates people who are not cis gender heterosexuals so that whole group in my opinion is more slightly marginalized. 

I put "no".  This is because sexual orientation (LGB+) is not the same as gender identity.  I think continuing to keep the groups together is going to make it far harder for people to grasp that gender identity  =/= sexual orientation.  While some trans people are also LGB+ doesn't mean that the T needs to be added on because their sexual orientation is not because of their gender identity. 

I just think that if the T community spoke out more and separated themselves a bit from the LGB+ community, then it would be easier for people to grasp that being trans has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation.  Until that happens, people will still see gender as being fully entwined with sexual orientation and not realize that there are needs that T people have that the LGB+ community does not have.

I feel as though it's an alliance of convenience.  However, at the end of the transgender community's aims are different to the LGB.

LGB is about who you want to be doing stuff to/with.
T is about who you want to be.
The common word between the two groups is sex, but the context of the word is completely different.  Sexual orientation and sexual identity are separate.  T being aligned with LGB just makes it a little easier for us to be heard, but often the message is distorted.  As both groups are somewhat marginalised, allying and campaigning with greater numbers sort of helps I guess.

Quote from: luna nyan on April 04, 2012, 10:37:31 PM
I feel as though it's an alliance of convenience.  However, at the end of the transgender community's aims are different to the LGB.

LGB is about who you want to be doing stuff to/with.
T is about who you want to be.
The common word between the two groups is sex, but the context of the word is completely different.  Sexual orientation and sexual identity are separate.  T being aligned with LGB just makes it a little easier for us to be heard, but often the message is distorted.  As both groups are somewhat marginalised, allying and campaigning with greater numbers sort of helps I guess.

This ^  I would hate to think of it as "riding the coattails" but the more support we get the better.

Quote from: Malachite on April 04, 2012, 10:54:16 PM
This ^  I would hate to think of it as "riding the coattails" but the more support we get the better.

No dishonor in riding coattails or doing what works. Shoulders of giants and all that.

As I also identify as a Lesbian as well as Transsexual I guess I have a foot in both camps.  I chose  "yes with reservations", as gender and sexuality are different issues, but are overridden by the practicalities of the local situation.

Tasmania only has a population of 500,000 , so we need to stick together in order to have a decent voice.  As a result of the numbers involved, everyone knows a fair percentage of the GLBTIQ community here anyway.

Karen.