The "How would you describe GOD?" topic ( https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,98302.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,98302.0.html) ) was pretty interesting, and I really wanted to make an off-hand observation, but I don't want to derail it. ^^;
Thusforth, I put the derailing question HERE! ^.^ No surprise, I guess.
Anyway...
Ok, uhmm...in the tangent thought...How would you be able to designate said god concept entity? Considering that the term is handed off to the entity of the highest form of existence more-or-less, then would its all-encompassing nature capture inside of it the means to observe it? I mean, sure, I guess you can see the outline from the inside, so to speak, but wouldn't there be only so much of a portion that you'd see, inevitably leaving out more that doesn't fit the functionality of the observation method?
So how would you be able to ID a source as a/the god? Of course, respect everyone's opinions as-always. x3
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For my personal answer, I associate a god as a living core structure of the universe, and I believe that the soul is something that entirely exists outside of the universe...So straightforwardly, the soul simply has to look at the universe it's interacting with. However, the soul exists in a metaphorical sea of chaos, the soul riding beside the universe upon it, so it can't see the chaos. I guess the spirit (portion of soul imbued into the universe in terms of my beliefs) would provide the ability to look at the chaos...but at the same time, this gives no ability to look at parallel universes whatsoever, so...ack...I guess I'm out of ideas at that point XD
Kia Ora Sabriel,
"Consciousness"
Metta Zenda :
"Consciousness"
Is only thought being aware of itself. It implies nor does it prove the existence of any superpower beyond that of thought itself.
I have to be honest - I would define a god as: a fictional character (or characters) dreamed up as a parent substitute, and then used either for comfort or as a weapon. To me it feels like being asked to define the baritone out of your favourite opera.
I have never had an investment in the universe(s) being run by parents (but then my parents made appalling god models - but then so do gods). It's much more beautiful and mysterious than that, even if it is more frightening to accept that we're not the universe's favourite children; and since we're not significant in cosmic terms, we just have to deal with making ourselves significant very locally, by living worthy lives without being offered gold stars as an incentive.
God concepts seem to be important to many people races and creeds, but the concept tends to that of the unexplainable. The sun was god, the moon probably was as well. All of these before science explained them. Interestingly the scientists who explained them often came under investigation by whatever religion 'appeared ' to have something to lose, usually power.
Do we need gods? I understand and accept that people get great comfort and relief from religion; though I am not a believer. But what is the core of a religion? Is it a code of ethics that allow people to live together, look after the weak and disadvantaged and give comfort in times of psychological need? In this concept god would be humanity.
This may follow on from Padma's point, I am not in anyway trying to holier than though, but my concept for living my life is to be helpful, charitable and to treat my fellow humans as I want to be treated. Not easy with some of them. Is this a religion? No; although several of the precepts are found in the major religions. Does it need a god? No. So why do it? Because it allows my family, friends and I to live in an hospitable, safe and caring environment. Well in theory.
Cindy
People I know have been saying over the last couple of days that it's "mean to make fun of the rapture believers" but while I think there is some meanness sometimes, on the whole I suspect it's more about self-defence.
If this isn't already your experience, then imagine this: you grow up in a culture where the still very dominant religion is daily pointing at you and saying (covertly or overtly) "We believe someone made the universe, and he wants you to suffer for all eternity for not believing that - but it's out of love, okay?" Psychotic. It doesn't matter if not all of the adherents of that religion believe and say that - it only matters that enough of them do it, all the time, that you get this message (read: threat) every day you're growing up and living in this culture. Frankly, this makes me feel like I'm living in Nazi Germany Lite, and if I feel the urge (which I restrain as much as I can) to joke about burning in hell forever while a select few get cake come teatime, you'll have to cut me some slack - it's frightening, especially as some take it as genuine permission for hatred and violence.
So I'm unconvinced that theistic religion automatically contributes to order and care and happiness, unless you're in the in-crowd.
(Note: this is my slightly embittered perspective as an ethnic Jew grown up in England - and this is all before we start in on being queer, trans, etc.)
I think where I was coming from ignored fools and charlatans. But a fool and a charlatan who manages to start a 'big' religion is no different to those who started a small one a few weeks, year, what ever ago. I think sometimes (and can I carefully paraphrase this, I am not attacking any ones beliefs but joining an interesting discussion) of the Coca Cola vs Pepsi vs any other Cola story. Ours is best because we were the first. no we are better because we improved the basic recipe. Ah but we are better because we a smaller and can deliver to your individual tastes.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice cream.
Wallace Stevens
I have a feeling I may be going off thread OP .
Feel free to post. I'm not moderating the thread as I am involved as an interested person.
Cindy
I think I got out of the wrong side of reality this morning, I seem to have been irredeemably stroppy.
I'm personally fascinated to realise just how much residual fear has built up in me over the decades of living as a non-straight Jew in a Christian country, and how much anger sits on top of that fear. It makes the subject fully loaded for me.
I'm well aware that this topic is about conceptions of a god, not about Christianity, so I'll back off from anti-Christian polemic now (personally, I see nothing inappropriate about having a critique of belief systems, it's just that this isn't the topic's subject) - I'm curious to see what others' opinions are about gods, remembering that we are all entitled to our opinions without having to defend them.
A big jazzy plate behind 'is 'ead.
e.g (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.instaplanet.com%2Fimages%2F114InstaPLANET_silverICON.JPG&hash=4da46e7c290b907131d1265f2a14ffccac718e0c)
"God" is an entity created by man to explain all those things man cannot. The farther you go back in the history books, including the Bible, Qur'an and other holy books, the more frequently natural disasters are said to be the wrath of God. This is also true of anything for which they had no logical or scientific explanation.
Our little human minds have always been challenged by things we cannot explain. What was here before the Big Bang? When you get to the end of the Universe, what's on the other side? So until we have all the answers we'll be explaining the unknown with God.
Whether or not there is a God-like entity somewhere out there, I don't know. I would imagine there's something that created all this. But that's my little human mind trying to wrap by head around infinity.
God to me is a system of control made up by rich people that they use on poor people using guilt, fear shame and the promise that you will spend eternity in never ending agony if you don't comply. But he loves you!
He's like the anti Santa who at least bribes you to be good with the promise of presents ;D
Kinda sucks to be brought up in this environment knowing full well that you have no chance of complying with the rules just by your very nature. ???
Quote from: tekla on May 24, 2011, 02:20:47 AM
"Consciousness"
Is only thought being aware of itself. It implies nor does it prove the existence of any "superpower" beyond that of thought itself.
Kia Ora Tekla,
And without "Consciousness" there would be no "thought/s" of a god!
Metta Zenda :)
And without "Consciousness" there would be no "thought/s" of a god!
Let me guess here. You failed the 'if a tree falls in the forest question' in Buddha 101 didn't you?
Quote from: tekla on May 28, 2011, 02:16:21 PM
And without "Consciousness" there would be no "thought/s" of a god!
Let me guess here. You failed the 'if a tree falls in the forest question' in Buddha 101 didn't you?
Kia Ora Tekla,
::) You got "me" thinking...So as long as we are on the same page when it comes to what Buddhists mean by "consciousness" which is "mind" BTW...
Here's a little insight to where I'm coming from... [ "I" being the conventional "self", for there's no real "I" to speak of ]
In order for a thought to arise, consciousness must 'first' breath "awareness' into one senses for them to begin to generate "thoughts", in other words one can't just have thoughts popping up from nowhere independent of dependents so to speak...
Descartes's
"I Think Therefore I Am!" is somewhat of a paradox...For if one understands where "thought" comes from, one will find
"thought" itself is the "thinker" there is no "I" behind the thought only mental processes stimulated by the senses which leads thought to begets more thought...But in a "sense' Descartes is also right, ones thoughts do create ones reality. But there's no "I" there to generate them...
"Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said, "The flag moves." The other said, "The wind moves." They argued back and forth but could not agree.
The Sixth Ancestor said, "Gentlemen! It is not the wind that moves; it is not the flag that moves; it is your mind that moves !"
Nothing exists or is capable of existing outside the "mind"..."think" about it !
And as for the tree falling in the forest thing...Well the real answer is the same as for what's the sound of one hand clapping...
"Mu" ::) However if we have got our wires crossed,[which I have a habit of doing at times] my apologies, if not...
Happy Mindfulness :)
Metta Zenda :)
I'm glad someone realized the huge flaw with "I think, therefore I am." and realized the truth is the exact opposite, that thoughts are anything but who you are, it's just mental noise, doesn't mean anything. i can't remember who it was though. it's mentioned in A New Earth...i was thumbing through it to find it but couldn't.
If a tree fell in the forest and nobody was watching - would the other trees pile on?
Peer pressure. Just like once upon a time someone started wearing the plate behind the head, then... everybody was doing it.
Quote from: Noah the brave-ish on May 28, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
I'm glad someone realized the huge flaw with "I think, therefore I am." and realized the truth is the exact opposite, that thoughts are anything but who you are, it's just mental noise, doesn't mean anything. i can't remember who it was though. it's mentioned in A New Earth...i was thumbing through it to find it but couldn't.
Kia Ora Noah,
I found Eckhart Tolle's books quite interesting, he seems to take the Buddhist approach with a bit of Judeo Christianity thrown into the mix...However his understanding of how the mind works and being able to put it into plain English can be very beneficial for many who read his books...
Even though his comes across as a bit "new agey" at times, he helps people[especially in the West] to make sense of what can be often overlooked/viewed as "non-sense" ...
Metta Zenda :)
yeah I'm glad i read that book, there's a lot I've highlighted that helps me out in life.
God is Santa Clause for adults.
He's making a list and checking it twice.
He's gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The nice children adults get presents heaven.
The naughty children adults get coal hell.
Another way to look at it is a way to pump ourselves up to feel more important than we actually are. This universe is a proving ground made for us so that we could join our creator. We must be humble and realize we are nothing in order to achieve greatness. However letting go of this idea entirely and realizing that we really are nothing but bits of stardust is about as humble as it gets.
You are one person, out of 6,775,235,700 people, on one planet, out of eight planets, in one star system, out of one hundred billion star systems, in one galaxy out of billions and billions of galaxies.
You are insignificant no matter how you cut it.