This video is from the Connecticut Judiciary Committee hearings regarding the passage of a transgender anti-discrimination bill. Listen to what William O'Brien, President of the Right to Life Corporation, has to say about why the bill should not be passed.
Judiciary Committee (Gender Identity) Anti-Discrimination Hearing: O'Brien/Holder-Winfield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB9AjTuDZdA#)
That they are a corporation tells me all I need to know.
I once heard that if someone compliments you, or says that they are compassionate towards your situation, then go on to use the word "BUT"-look out!
You're about to get a left hook to the nose.
I love how this man tries to initially soft pedal it, before going on to call us mentally sick and bathroom stalking molesters.
Did Mr. O'Brien say anything about the Catholic priests that he surely befriends? Maybe that's where he should first start looking for the molesters.
This guy is voting NO on a bill when he ADMITS to knowing nothing about the subject matter, and also admits to just "skimming" the information. Yet he can make an informed decision on a bill that will affect hundreds if not thousands of people? If he knew anything he was talking about he wouldn't be calling trans women "men who want to use the ladies room"... smh
what kills me is it just seems like all he's doing is bitching and being hypocritical, so WE should just conform and suck it up basically and deal with embarrassment and harassment based on us just trying to live a happy life as we know is meant to be lived but them just bending the "rules" for us to have equal rights is out of the question and intolerable....what a capital PRICK.... >:( I'm sorry please excuse my language maybe it was how i was raised but i can't stand jugmental bigits like that, who try and justify something by talking out their ass when they have absolutely NO IDEA or understanding of what their "against"...
I was also shocked at him talking about how the government decided that there are two genders.... I think Mother Nature decides that, not the US Government... then he also talks about us as "crossdressers", and the danger of people being able to "choose their gender" and we'll live in a "gender fluid" society which would be damaging to children, as well as having to "teach children about transgender" .... just what IS he trying to say anyhow?!?! Sounded like a bunch of rambling, about nothing that makes much sense, because he flat out didn't look at the information he was given and went with his immediate gut reaction.
And to think people like him are making important decisions.
He's from the Right to Life Corporation... such delicious irony.
After watching that, the only thing I feel with regard to Mr O'Brien is embarrassment for him, and that he must have been going through a "some days, you wish you'd just stayed in bed" moment. Because, in the conversation that follows his statement, he's made to look like someone who read an article from a magazine they picked up in a dental surgery somewhere, and suddenly became an 'expert'. It's laughable, and a perfect example of someone trotting out a company line with no actual comprehension of the words coming out of their mouth.
I hope I figure out his email somehow, or even a letter...I'd have...uhm...colorful informed words for him. ^.^;
Quote from: Sabriel Facrin on June 05, 2011, 05:08:50 AM
I hope I figure out his email somehow, or even a letter...I'd have...uhm...colorful informed words for him. ^.^;
Here's someplace to start:
http://connecticut.networkofcare.org/mh/resource/agencydetail.cfm?pid=ConnecticutRightToLifeCorporation_556_2_0 (http://connecticut.networkofcare.org/mh/resource/agencydetail.cfm?pid=ConnecticutRightToLifeCorporation_556_2_0)
Connecticut Right To Life Corporation
PO Box 2343
Waterbury, CT 06722-2343
(203) 757-5213
robertemuckle@aol.com
http://www.ct4women.com/ (http://www.ct4women.com/)
I like this little bit of illogic from their web page. "Did you know? 1.25 million babies are killed every year. 1.5 million couples are waiting to adopt." They're saying, "Apples equal oranges." So 1.5 million are waiting to adopt
now. How many are added to the list in a year? How many are rejected as unfit? How many drop out of the queue because they get pregnant? How long have they been waiting to adopt? There's no relationship between the two numbers.
Rep. Gary Holder-Winfield (http://www.housedems.ct.gov/Winfield/) is the guy grilling the extremophobes. He championed the bill and is obviously an educated, reasonable person. I wish I could say that for the likes of Mr. O'Brien. Maybe we might want to send Mr. Holder-Winfield a thank you or two.
Rep. Gary Holder-Winfield on Transgender Anti-Discrimination Bill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otB-5fUz8SE#ws)
By the way, the extremophobes lost this one. The bill just passed CT Senate 20-16 and has already passed the CT House by a narrow margin. Amazing it was close, for a state that has legalized same sex marriage.
Conn. passes transgender rights bill (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2011/06/05/conn_passes_transgender_rights_bill/)
Associated Press / June 5, 2011
HARTFORD — Connecticut has moved closer to adding transgendered people to the list of classes of citizens protected from discrimination.
Early yesterday morning, the Senate passed a gender identity protection bill on a 20-16 vote. The bill has already passed the House of Representatives, and Democratic Governor Dannel P. Malloy said he would sign it into law
...
GOP efforts to amend the bill, such as exempting restrooms, locker rooms, and boarding houses from the law, each failed.
Quote from: Rabbit on June 05, 2011, 05:52:18 AM
Haha I think the guy asking him questions about it did a good job to point out the guy didn't have a clue what he was talking about :P
That + the amazing activists who educated the general assembly are the reasons we have this statement released by our governor's office:
Quote
This bill is another step forward in the fight for equal rights for all of Connecticut's citizens, and it's the right thing to do. It's difficult enough for people who are grappling with the issue of their gender identity, and discrimination against them has no place in our society. Connecticut has lead the way in other civil rights issues and I'm proud to be able to support and sign this bill.
http://www.governor.ct.gov/malloy/cwp/view.asp?Q=480522&A=4010 (http://www.governor.ct.gov/malloy/cwp/view.asp?Q=480522&A=4010)
13 states behind isn't exactly leading, but I'll take what I can get. Both my local rep and senator voted against the bill, after evasively telling me they just weren't sure how they would vote...I already didn't support them, now I just have more reason to actively work against them.
FWIW, I think there are plenty of good reasons to remove trans-anything from the DSM, but I don't think it will help change bigoted minds. I can already imagine a "psychologists don't even accept this as something real" argument.
Yes, this guy is a piece of work and he deserves all the flack you've given him. He simply doesn't know what he's talking about.
But...
The Post was titled, " This is why TG must be removed from the DSM." This statement was made by a moderator??? Really?
"TG" is NOT on the DSM.
Gender Identity Disorder is on the DSM; it's a medical condition and it needs to stay there so people who need treatment can get it. Not all people who identify as "TG" suffer from GID or need medical treatment.
There's a big difference between someone diagnosed and in transition using a gender appropriate restroom and a weekend crossdresser who wants "the right" to use the ladies room. That's why these bills never pass.!
UGH!!
There are also links posted in the, "Community Alerts" thread about the DSM-5 revisions, there is one to sign a petition to remove this type of thought about gender and crossdressing. Please hurry if you want to sign the deadline is June 15th.
JessicaR;
The bill did pass though.....
Quote from: JessicaR on June 05, 2011, 09:19:23 AM
The Post was titled, " This is why TG must be removed from the DSM." This statement was made by a moderator??? Really?
"TG" is NOT on the DSM.
Gender Identity Disorder is on the DSM; it's a medical condition and it needs to stay there so people who need treatment can get it. Not all people who identify as "TG" suffer from GID or need medical treatment.
There's a big difference between someone diagnosed and in transition using a gender appropriate restroom and a weekend crossdresser who wants "the right" to use the ladies room. That's why these bills never pass.!
First, the title was intended to catch the eye and keep an already long title a bit shorter as almost everyone here knows what TG stands for, not so much with GID. So rather than write "Gender Identity Disorder" I chose "TG" thinking anyone reading the posts here would understand.
As for keeping GID in the DSM, what this guy and so many other like him say is one of the best reasons for getting GID out of the DSM. If you listened to him, you heard him talk about laws supporting a mental disorder as normal and acceptable. He actually had it right when he said the APA defines it as a mental disorder. And on that, I agree with him. If someone TRULY has a mental disorder, then yes, we should not be doing anything to act like the mental disorder is perfectly okay. We should promote treatment, not pretend like they are fine. And Mr. O'Brien said pretty much that.
As far as the dysphoria we may suffer because of the prejudice, bigotry, hatred and discrimination we face, there are already diagnoses in the DSM that address those problems. We don't need "gender identity" attached to a disorder or used in defining one. If we accept or promote that, we only give people like Mr. O'Brien more fuel for their bigoted propaganda. Education is what is needed. It takes time, but it works.
As long as the words "gender identity" remain in the DSM, any progress through education will suffer. And if you need proof of that, look at what happened with the public perception of gays after "homosexual" was removed from the DSM.
What the Champion of this bill has to say about GID being in the DSM
Judiciary Committee (Gender-Identity) Anti-Discrimination Hearing: Holder-Winfield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER7ApQI3KBo#)
And if you need proof of that, look at what happened with the public perception of gays after "homosexual" was removed from the DSM.
The greater change in public perception however came when the gays came out and people found out that they knew someone who was gay, and at that moment all the stereotypes, the hate and the misperceptions melted away.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 11:02:15 AM
And if you need proof of that, look at what happened with the public perception of gays after "homosexual" was removed from the DSM.
The greater change in public perception however came when the gays came out and people found out that they knew someone who was gay, and at that moment all the stereotypes, the hate and the misperceptions melted away.
THIS!!!
Only by having enough of us out and proud can we change societies perceptions of us. Hiding makes us invisible. We need to be seen to be understood.
now only if this can be passed in georgia and the rest of the states lol thats good to hear though, its a start ^_^ that other dude can kick rocks
Seems his issue is people willy nilly changing their gender markers for whatever purpose - something that is understandable but a bit overinflated. Truly, a lot of the issues he brings up would be fixed if we had standard diagnostic methods and identified those with the disorder. They could then identify themselves as different than their birth sex legally and you don't have his "change gender willy nilly" fear-mongering.
Well we have a standard diagnostic method, the DSM, but it seems, if this guy is to be believed, that a person can make use of the rights with this bill if not diagnosed. I haven't read the bill, so I hope this is not the case, but if no diagnosis is required I do think it could be problematic for those with legitimate gender issues.
make use of the rights with this bill if not diagnosed
Actually, that fits many people in here.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
make use of the rights with this bill if not diagnosed
Actually, that fits many people in here.
Yup.
It would help if us and the medical community could reach a consensus on the labels and categories.
So here is list for you to add and/or modify
BRAIN GENDER IDENTITY - the self perception of male, female, male and female (binary or androgynous), male and female to none (gender fluid), and agender (non-gender)
TRANSGENDER - an individual whose brain gender identity does not match his/her body. May or may not dress congruent with his/her brain gender identity
TRANSSEXUAL an transgender individual born with the wrong genitalia; driven to change his body to match his/her brain gender identity
->-bleeped-<- - a transgender individual who cross-dress in a part time or permanent basis without deriving any sexual reward
FETISHISTIC ->-bleeped-<- a transgender individual who cross dresses to derive a sexual reward
I hope I do not come as petulant with this list, but we have to start soem where. Inputs ladies and Gents
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on June 05, 2011, 06:22:01 PM
It would help if us and the medical community could reach a consensus on the labels and categories.
So here is list for you to add and/or modify
BRAIN GENDER IDENTITY - the self perception of male, female, male and female (binary or androgynous), male and female to none (gender fluid), and agender (non-gender)
TRANSGENDER - an individual whose brain gender identity does not match his/her body. May or may not dress congruent with his/her brain gender identity
TRANSSEXUAL an transgender individual born with the wrong genitalia; driven to change his body to match his/her brain gender identity
->-bleeped-<- - a transgender individual who cross-dress in a part time or permanent basis without deriving any sexual reward
FETISHISTIC ->-bleeped-<- a transgender individual who cross dresses to derive a sexual reward
I hope I do not come as petulant with this list, but we have to start soem where. Inputs ladies and Gents
Kate D
Is this list supposed to constitute a medically supported diagnosis? I don't know that any of the above conditions can be identified medically. They can be identified psychologically and the criteria already exist for several of them.
There already is a list of words and definitions here. But if you want to reinvent the wheel, go ahead, but remember - it's round.
Quote from: interalia on June 05, 2011, 06:26:58 PM
Is this list supposed to constitute a medically supported diagnosis? I don't know that any of the above conditions can be identified medically. They can be identified psychologically and the criteria already exist for several of them.
If all this definitions are already in the medical tool box then why the media conundrum about the lack of definitions. I yet have to see anything about "gender fluidity" "androgyny" etc in the DSM book?
Certain forms of TG can be ascribe to mutations in the following genes: alpha fetal protein 1, aromatase, sex reversal Y, estrogen receptor, testosterone receptor, that I can think right now.
We cannnot image the stria terminalis in ivo yet, but it is coming.
I am answering your points and providing you information out of bing nice.
If my list and the idea of helping the medical community work with us in making conceptual definitions that make sense and that can be of much value in generating laws to protect the all TG individuals is a bad idea, then let me hear your superior and constructive idea, I am all ears!
Kate D
I'm a man and I use the women's bathroom...however I'm a trans man. So watch out women.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 06:29:21 PM
There already is a list of words and definitions here. But if you want to reinvent the wheel, go ahead, but remember - it's round.
If the list exist then by all means do provide.
Quote from: Nygeel on June 05, 2011, 06:44:14 PM
I'm a man and I use the women's bathroom...however I'm a trans man. So watch out women.
Just keep your eyes to yourself Mr Man........
:P
I yet have to see anything about "gender fluidity" "androgyny" etc in the DSM book
Maybe because the DSM only deals with mental illness, and those things are just natural variations not neededing, or deserving of treatment.
And those terms have been defined here, on this site. Do your own research, you'll be so happy and overcome with a feeling of accomplishment when you find it yourself.
Quote from: cynthialee on June 05, 2011, 06:50:36 PM
Just keep your eyes to yourself Mr Man........
:P
Eh, if it helps I wish I could use the men's room and not get in any trouble lol
Anyways...let's say everything trans related were removed from the DSM...how would we get treatment? I think that if people are going to work on removing anything/everything trans related from the DSM then they should set up a way so those who want/need some form of physical transition can obtain it.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 06:53:23 PM
I yet have to see anything about "gender fluidity" "androgyny" etc in the DSM book
Maybe because the DSM only deals with mental illness, and those things are just natural variations not neededing, or deserving of treatment.
And those terms have been defined here, on this site. Do your own research, you'll be so happy and overcome with a feeling of accomplishment when you find it yourself.
You should re red your post:
I yet have to see anything about "gender fluidity" "androgyny" etc in the DSM book[/i]
"Maybe because the DSM only deals with mental illness, and those things are just natural variations not neededing, or deserving of treatment. " As determined by Dr. Tekla!
"And those terms have been defined here, on this site"J ust list them Dr. Tekla, I do not need to learn to do research, I have being making a living doing research for the last 30 years!
You did not respond, your response is lame as usual; tell me after 15,000 post what have you produced? Where is your list, your hypothesis,your book, your anything, other than a collection of sarcastic and unhelpful post.
Kate D.
Keep it on the thread subject and not personal attacks please. That goes for everyone.
Thank you.
It's not determined by me at all, it's determined by the American Psychiatric Association.
There are people here and elsewhere in the TG community who, when they hear someone say gender identity is not a mental disorder, will tell you you're wrong. And some will fight you tooth and nail insisting they absolutely suffer from a mental disorder and that GID must remain in the DSM.
Going back to about the time homosexuality was still in the DSM, I recall what the general self perception of homosexuals was. And I think it's safe to say that back then you could have easily found many gays and lesbians who would insist they had a mental disorder and that homosexuality belonged in the DSM.
Go out in the G&L communities today and see how many gays & lesbians will say that now. I certainly don't know any myself. But I do know a lot who will tell you about the prejudice, bigotry, hatred and discrimination the G&L community faces. They recognize the disorder isn't theirs but rather, belongs to society.
Exactly what spurred their drive to come out, I don't know. But I'll bet once homosexuality was removed from the DSM and therapists and psychiatrists were no longer telling their clients, or anyone else for that matter, that gay is a mental disorder, it gave a lot of people a lot more courage to be themselves.
And once GID is out of the DSM, people like Mr. O'Brien will have to really dig hard to find a palatable spin to keep trans people out of society.
Without a medical/pschiatric code to point too insurance companies are not likely to pay for transition related services.
I don't like it being a mental disorder in the DSM at all but I see no way around it at this time.
Quote from: cynthialee on June 05, 2011, 08:15:04 PM
Without a medical/pschiatric code to point too insurance companies are not likely to pay for transition related services.
I don't like it being a mental disorder in the DSM at all but I see no way around it at this time.
This is a fallacy, GID can be label as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect, and thus be fully cover by health insurances, while removing the psychiatric stigma
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on June 05, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
This is a fallacy, GID can be label as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect, and thus be fully cover by health insurances, while removing the psychiatric stigma
Kate D
True but that would require the cooperation of the PTB that run the psych world and the PTB that run the medical world working together. You are talking about moving 2 bureaucracy's simultaneously.
good luck
If it's labeled as a birth defect then what would happen to those who "aren't trans enough?" By that I mean those who figure out they're trans later, or are maybe feminine trans men/masculine trans women.
Quote from: kate durcal on June 05, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
This is a fallacy, GID can be label as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect, and thus be fully cover by health insurances, while removing the psychiatric stigma
Kate D
I'd love to know how GID can be labeled as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect. We have no medically testable criteria.
I'd love to know how GID can be labeled as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect. We have no medically testable criteria.
I'd love to know how GID can be labeled as a medical psychological condition when we have no medically psychological testable criteria either.
It's all pretty much based on 'because I say so' - but there are no clear markers.
Better science? I'd be happy for just some science. At times (as evidenced above) it seems much closer to a religion composed of true believers and apostates more than anything that would be of science, i.e. rational and provable.
Quote from: Nygeel on June 05, 2011, 09:28:22 PM
If it's labeled as a birth defect then what would happen to those who "aren't trans enough?" By that I mean those who figure out they're trans later, or are maybe feminine trans men/masculine trans women.
Don't see why it'd be any different than now. There's a whole bunch of feminine cismen, it should be expected that transmen come in the same range of varieties no matter what the condition is listed under.
Don't see why it should matter
when one figures it out either, because (and this is where,
and the ONLY where, psychology comes in) we may have been supressing it for all kinds of reasons, or really been made to think that what we were going through was actually normal for someone of our body's sex, etc.
So lets say we could look at the brain structure and see that the person is indeed transsexual (or gender variant in some way), it should be treated the same way as intersex people should be treated:
get medical and surgical treatment in accordance to what (or if) they themselves see fitting and necessary for their personal wellbeing.
The "D" may belong in the DSM. And it can be found in plenty of areas.
The "GI" doesn't belong in the DSM and it shouldn't be found anywhere.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
make use of the rights with this bill if not diagnosed
Actually, that fits many people in here.
For once, Tekla, I agree with you ;)
Disclaimer: This is not going to be popular
Transsexual people need medical treatment. We, as a society, need to find better ways to diagnose, support, treat and provide legal protection for those diagnosed with GID. We need to make transition easier for young people by educating youth about transsexualism so that when someone does encounter a transsexual person they are educated enough about them to reduce the chance of discriminating against them. The goal of transition, as outlined in the SOC, is to help someone with GID to adapt physically and socially into the gender opposite their birth and live the rest of their lives spared from emotional pain. Transsexualism isn't a movement... it's a condition. We change our bodies so we are better able to live in our community.
"Transgender" folks without GID like to wave their flags and march their marches.... They want the world to change for them.
"I don't have a disorder. I don't have a birth defect. I am just a little different than the majority."
That's fine! No problem!...... But don't expect the millions of people that live with you to change their perception of gender to suit you. As members of a greater society we have to take responsibility for ourselves to live and work in it effectively. Trying to convince a cisgender person that there's a third gender in Western culture is like trying to explain color to someone born blind.... it just doesn't work that way. Stamp your feet and whine all you want but no, I'm sorry... in this society there are two genders.. That's not going to change for you. You have the right to wear whatever you want and present however you want... but don't expect all the women in the ladies room to be all warm and fuzzy when you walk in... you're asking too much.
When you're sick, you go to the doctor, she gives you medicine, performs surgery if necessary and you're hopefully cured.
What would happen if clinical depression were suddenly taken off the DSM? "I don't have a disorder, I'm just sad most of the time..."
Would that make sense or would we start a movement and march for "equal treatment for people who cry alot?"
Transgender folks, don't presume to speak for me.
Quote from: interalia on June 05, 2011, 09:32:38 PM
I'd love to know how GID can be labeled as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect. We have no medically testable criteria.
Really?
Read AMA resolution 122
I'd say that any condition that makes you want to die instead of living with it is a medical emergency AND condition.
What I wanna know is what has a transgendered person or gay person ever done to these people to ever be so prejudice towards us?!! I can't understand how people think we are treated equally and then slander us this way as if we have committed some sinful act of perversion. Could they even name an incident this occurs? I understand education is lacking when it comes to these types of situations but what is there to be educated about prejudice that hasn't already been taught? I like to think about how racism has come so far the years from what it has been in the past. Now-a-days even black people hate transgendered and gay people, it is a huge joke on stage at a comedians set, it just makes me sick! If we had the numbers like black people have we would have a louder voice. Since we never will all we have is individual circumstances and the chance of wondering if we will have equality in our survival.
Maybe I'm angrier because of the hell I have gone through this year coming out and not "whoring" myself out this time. I have never been called a ->-bleeped-<-got so many times in my life. It just really gets to me that I have never done a single thing to a single person ANYWHERE and I don't even dress bad, just feminine, but I am still clockable, and I have never had to put up with so much prejudice in my life, it just makes me sick. It is because of dudes like this! I couldn't watch the initial video because it just makes me too angry and I have a pretty good idea of the ignorant statements he is making. I guess it was about legally changing gender identifications. What I want to know is what is it to him?! He wont lose any sleep over either way! It matters A LOT to us and they are trying to take away OUR RIGHTS! What have we done?! EVER?
The only hope we have is if we can make it nationally wide publicly known we are not going to take it anymore! That we have as much right to live a normal and civil life as anyone else. They are ruining peoples lives, they came so close to ruining mine, I have seen so many sad stories because of it. If my one letter would make that much of a difference I would write, and write, and write, and write. But my only hope is to educate Myself, and to one day have the tools to make the changes for people after me. It is a dream of mine one day, but I far to often see a dead end, a brick wall being stacked brick upon brick, solely to stop me from feeling natural, beautiful, and happy. They have no right to take my rights, our rights, they are the ones who should have to suffer discrimination they are the criminals, not us.
Quote from: JessicaR on June 06, 2011, 02:39:28 AM
Really?
Read AMA resolution 122
This resolution makes the claim it is a "serious medical condition" staying that it is identified as suchin the DSM-IV-TR and the ICD-10 but this is incorrect. Neither of these authoritative diagnostic books label this as a medical condition.
The DSM is not a medical diagnostic book. The ICD is but it lists transsexualism with it's mental disorders section right above transvestic fetishism. Is TV also medical condition?
Quote
I'd say that any condition that makes you want to die instead of living with it is a medical emergency AND condition.
Quote from: JessicaR on June 06, 2011, 02:33:51 AM
What would happen if clinical depression were suddenly taken off the DSM? "I don't have a disorder, I'm just sad most of the time..."
Who is suggesting clinical depression should be removed from the DSM?
Lots of people are depressed for lots of different reasons so there's no way clinical depression will be removed from the DSM. But why should there be some causes of clinical depression that are specifically mentioned and not others? Either itemize all the causes or just simply establish a process for which to diagnose depression, regardless of the cause.
Let's say gender identity is removed from the DSM. A person who is suffering depression, because the world they knew just collapsed when they came out as trans, walks into a therapist's office.
Therapist: "What's bothering you?"
Client: "I think I'm suffering from depression."
Therapist: "Okay, why don't we talk about it..."
There's no way any therapist will tell you "Oh, your depression is because you're trans? I'm sorry, we don't treat that kind of depression."
The SOC will still exist. Treatment will still be offered. And maybe your insurance will cover physical treatment rather than just mental treatment. The most common reason our surgeries are not included in one's coverage is because of the stigma, NOT because of the cost.
And we won't have to hear the FACT that the APA says we have a mental disorder and the subsequent conclusion by the uneducated that we need therapy, not acceptance, not civil rights, not employment anti-discrimination laws.
It takes time, but it can happen, but not as long as any anti-trans activists can open a manual created by the American Psychiatric Association and use it as proof this is a mental disorder.
Quote from: interalia on June 05, 2011, 09:32:38 PM
I'd love to know how GID can be labeled as a medical condition, specifically a birth defect. We have no medically testable criteria.
The presence of mutation in the promoter of the gene that codes for the aromatase protein is but one of other genetic maskers for GID! Hello needs to keep up with developments darling
Quote from: Julie Marie on June 05, 2011, 07:51:49 PM
There are people here and elsewhere in the TG community who, when they hear someone say gender identity is not a mental disorder, will tell you you're wrong. And some will fight you tooth and nail insisting they absolutely suffer from a mental disorder and that GID must remain in the DSM.
I never viewed it as a mental disorder. Obviously there were counseling hoops that had to be jumped through courtesy of the insipid SoC although work-arounds existed to limit the time one had to spend with a shrink.
What I had was a medical condition. Once the birth defect was addressed via medical intervention, all was good in my world in terms of the necessary congruences with the binary to which I subscribed.
When viewed from the context of mental health treatment, I fail to see where anyone gains from the continued inclusion of anything associated with a transsexual medical condition. Mental health care is not going to generally be successful at getting the patient to feel comfortable with the body in its birth condition, and psychotropics are not going to cure the condition. This is not like a bi-polar condition or depression or other issue where the condition becomes magically manageable by sitting on a couch for an hour a week talking to some shrink...
Also concur wholeheartedly with Valerie's comments...there exists absolute ZERO need to qualify the term 'individual' when defining what transsexuality is or is not.
Quote from: kate durcal on June 06, 2011, 03:24:11 PM
The presence of mutation in the promoter of the gene that codes for the aromatase protein is but one of other genetic maskers for GID! Hello needs to keep up with developments darling
This is an excellent study, I just read it. Finally there is a study done that didn't have to rely on non-significant (p >.05) correlations for their conclusions like the famous "dead-brains" study. This is another great stepping point to continue analyzing the biology behind our condition.
Unfortunately, correlational studies, even highly significant ones, do not diagnostic criteria make - additionally I couldn't find any replicated studies yet. The study could be vastly improved though by testing MTF who are not on hormones in significant numbers - good luck finding many of those though. Also adding FTMs vs GG would be wonderful.
So while this is excellent data to add to the growing body of information, it isn't a smoking gun. Schizophrenia has similar evidence for an elongated gene (CAGCAGCAG etc) that is strongly linked to it in numerous studies - so many in fact it is considered to be the cause of the disorder, yet it still is not considered a medical condition even though it is treatable in a medical way. Presence of the elongated gene sequence in a person only predisposes them for Schizophrenia, but it is environmental conditions that activate it. This model is becoming the popular model for the diagnosis, treatment, and causes of most mental illnesses - biological predisposition coupled with environmental triggers, known as the diathesis-stress model. Right now, it seems GID is fitting more and more into this model - but it has a LOT of research to go.
I'm excited - thanks for sharing!
Quote from: interalia on June 06, 2011, 04:50:17 PM
This is an excellent study, I just read it. Finally there is a study done that didn't have to rely on non-significant (p >.05) correlations for their conclusions like the famous "dead-brains" study. This is another great stepping point to continue analyzing the biology behind our condition.
Unfortunately, correlational studies, even highly significant ones, do not diagnostic criteria make - additionally I couldn't find any replicated studies yet. The study could be vastly improved though by testing MTF who are not on hormones in significant numbers - good luck finding many of those though. Also adding FTMs vs GG would be wonderful.
So while this is excellent data to add to the growing body of information, it isn't a smoking gun. Schizophrenia has similar evidence for an elongated gene (CAGCAGCAG etc) that is strongly linked to it in numerous studies - so many in fact it is considered to be the cause of the disorder, yet it still is not considered a medical condition even though it is treatable in a medical way. Presence of the elongated gene sequence in a person only predisposes them for Schizophrenia, but it is environmental conditions that activate it. This model is becoming the popular model for the diagnosis, treatment, and causes of most mental illnesses - biological predisposition coupled with environmental triggers, known as the diathesis-stress model. Right now, it seems GID is fitting more and more into this model - but it has a LOT of research to go.
I'm excited - thanks for sharing!
Since I hae access to a PCR and sequencing machine at work, I analyzed my own DNA (I am pre HRT), the DNA of my 3 sons, and two pre HRT TS friends. My two TS friend and I had the aromatase gene mutation, none of my boys had it (they are not TG).
Kate D
Hello,
Before slamming this politician, think of how he is paving the road. Yes, it is a paving process!!! As a medical professional, be THANKFUL that TG is in the DSM.....it has a name! It also has recognition. Everyone has to take baby steps before walking. Think back to how bad it was 20 years ago. The term TG should stay in the DSM for many reasons. If it doesn't have a name.....how can it be diagnosed? How can insurance companies assist "honestly" with the medical issues (hormones, etc.). No, in my experience as a medical professional (greater than 30years) it is NOT ok to diagnose with a hormone imbalance. That is inaccurate. TG's most generally make their own hormone imbalance. It is not a medical issue. It remains a psychological issue which can be treated medically.
This is no different than someone who is bipolar. The medical issues which result from being bipolar (which is a psychological diagnosis) can be treated based on the DSM IV diagnosis.
Wake up people.....before you make matters worse than they already are for you. Just something to think about. there is more ways to skin a cat. Don't be so sensitive. Use it to your advantage!
Angel
Quote from: Angelray on June 09, 2011, 04:51:13 PM
No, in my experience as a medical professional (greater than 30years) it is NOT ok to diagnose with a hormone imbalance. That is inaccurate. TG's most generally make their own hormone imbalance. It is not a medical issue. It remains a psychological issue which can be treated medically.
This is no different than someone who is bipolar. The medical issues which result from being bipolar (which is a psychological diagnosis) can be treated based on the DSM IV diagnosis.
!
Angel
Hello Dr Angel,
The last 10 years have seen the publication of more than a dozen papers showing that GID or more specifically TS is indeed a biologically, a medical condition. The data points to the basal nucleus of the stria terminalis (BST) as the center responsible for gender identity in humans.
Mutation in several genes who are expressed in the BST such as: the aromatase gene, and the estrogen and testosterone receptor gene seem to be implicated in the formation or lack thereof of a BST congruent with the individual chromosomal gender. Specifically, a mutation in the promoter region of the aromatase gene have been identified in TS individuals, this mutation is to my knowledge the first genetic marker for TS individuals, and thus takes the TS diagnosis out of psychiatry and into the realm of of neurological birth defects (a medical condition).
Just because TS is now a medical condition, specifically a birth defect, does not means that its treatment will not be covered by health insurances.
Dr. Kate D
GID is not the same as bipolar, or any other psychological disorder.
Those who suffer from mind-body gender conflict may initially experience euphoria after beginning HRT but, if physical changes do not follow, the euphoria will not last. HRT is a necessary part of our physical health, not a medication for a psychological problem. Without the physical changes from birth gender to identified gender, no medication in the world will end the dysphoria.
Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 11:02:15 AM
And if you need proof of that, look at what happened with the public perception of gays after "homosexual" was removed from the DSM.
The greater change in public perception however came when the gays came out and people found out that they knew someone who was gay, and at that moment all the stereotypes, the hate and the misperceptions melted away.
Gay men were just normal human beings, well who would have thought that haha :P
Actually they turned out to be slightly better than normal. They weren't the thugs, the low-lifes and bums, they were your favorite entertainers, the real 'nice guy' at the office, the person down the street who still took care of his mother, college graduates, opera patrons and all that stuff.
Quote from: tekla on June 10, 2011, 09:50:12 AM
Actually they turned out to be slightly better than normal. They weren't the thugs, the low-lifes and bums, they were your favorite entertainers, the real 'nice guy' at the office, the person down the street who still took care of his mother, college graduates, opera patrons and all that stuff.
...and the people who, when they took over your neighborhood, caused property value to rise. Try buying real estate in West Hollywood!
Or the Castro.