This is something that bothers me, so I'm going to post it against my better judgment.
If someone comes to our corner of the world and asks a question, I assume they are asking because they don't understand. From that point of view, if a question or phrase or term is used incorrectly or in a way that seems derogatory, I also assume that stems from a lack of understanding. The operative words here are "lack of understanding." The person asking the questions does not understand and is asking questions because they want to understand. It's all about the want to understand.
So perhaps as we go along, if we read a post that bothers us in some way, we should take a step back and make sure that we are treating the poster as fairly, assuming that they did not mean to offend us and assuming that they came by because they want to know us and our views better. If a post rubs me the wrong way, I don't respond (that's not to say that every post I don't respond to offends me); I take a step back and let others respond first to see their take on it. I generally find that reading other people's responses often clears up any misunderstanding I might have had when I read the original post. Some people just don't communicate well in writing, others maybe just couldn't think of a better way to say something. Sometimes, things sound way better in our heads than they do being read by someone else.
I feel like we usually pride ourselves on being accepting and easy going around here, so we should do our best to live up to that even if someone says something that can be construed as insensitive. When one person gets offended, the next poster often gets offended, and so on and so on until it's completely unmanageable and has to be shut down. In my experience, it's rarely anything that should have gone that far.
I'm not saying that no one has a right to get angry, I'm just saying that most people are not out to offend (the ones who do usually out themselves pretty quickly anyway). Let's just try to give people the benefit of the doubt and not waste energy with anger.
I think if we ask each other questions, we have to be open to having the assumptions and terms of our questions explored, since it's often the case that a question can't be properly answered within the framework of its original terms, especially when we're enquiring about an area outside our personal experience.
Often the best way to do this is to ask questions back, along the lines of "what do you mean when you say xyz in your question here?" before trying to answer, and I'm guilty of not doing that sometimes. It's a bit too easy to just shove back when one feels shoved into a corner. I'll try to keep it factual in future!
In the thread your talking about many people tried to educate the OP politely (I feel...) as to why the line of questioning might have been offensive. I feel like opportunities were given toget some clarification, to use some different wording and instead we slid downhill and MoRE offensive language was used, rather than less.
When we walk around our day to day life...it can be very frustrating. People who don't understand make comments that can be hurtful, they can ask questions that stem from ignorance. Often gender isn't the only place that we're different from mainstream. I know that my sexualitly is something of question and discussion and even when people mean best...they can grate me with the ignorance shown.
So when I come to susan's...my little safe haven of understanding...the last thing I want is to smile and nod through more assumptions, and poorly worded questions. Especially when it's pointed out and rather than rewording we're acused of acting like victims.
Nicely said, Jaimey.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitchencritic.co.uk%2Fupload%2F2007%2F05%2Fsmeg-striped-fridge.jpg&hash=b4b31783d7e3704fabc15e7debbef2e45994be3b)
Point Taken.
Kia Ora Jaimey,
::) So true, and as Luke said "Nicely said" Thanks ...I look forward to learning more about the androgyn world...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Sevan on June 06, 2011, 08:12:46 AM
In the thread your talking about many people tried to educate the OP politely (I feel...) as to why the line of questioning might have been offensive. I feel like opportunities were given toget some clarification, to use some different wording and instead we slid downhill and MoRE offensive language was used, rather than less.
When we walk around our day to day life...it can be very frustrating. People who don't understand make comments that can be hurtful, they can ask questions that stem from ignorance. Often gender isn't the only place that we're different from mainstream. I know that my sexualitly is something of question and discussion and even when people mean best...they can grate me with the ignorance shown.
So when I come to susan's...my little safe haven of understanding...the last thing I want is to smile and nod through more assumptions, and poorly worded questions. Especially when it's pointed out and rather than rewording we're acused of acting like victims.
I couldn't agree more...
I'm with Jaimey. I know some people have that recent post in their heads, but I can tell you that from a fringe perspective, this has been going on a LOT lately. I'd pretty much stopped posting because every time I opened a thread it had degenerated into shouting and name calling. I'd really like to come back, and hope that everyone can take a deep breath (or 7).
Quote from: Sevan on June 06, 2011, 08:12:46 AM
In the thread your talking about many people tried to educate the OP politely (I feel...)
I think I would have to disagree with that. I agree that some things were worded poorly and maybe they didn't come across the way they were intended, but that thread went from fine to a flaming ball of rage REALLY quickly. Too quickly. Short of a poster saying something like "you're gender isn't real" or "you're an abomination and you're going to hell," I really can't see any reason that a thread like the one we're talking about should need to be locked, especially as quickly as it was locked. It got extremely out of hand.
Maybe something else we could do when we are bothered by a term/phrase/question, is to message the poster privately and explain why that particular phrasing could seem insensitive so that it doesn't derail the thread.
LilDoberman, I hope you feel comfortable enough to come back soon! *hugs*
...nice fridge, Pica. I kind of want it.
Like Mom always said...If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at at all.
Been away for a week or two (too much work and too little life). I saw this thread and wondered what was going on. Then I saw the other one. My, my, my.
It did seem to get ugly rather quickly. I think locking it and stopping things before they got worse was probably a good idea. I'm all for heated discussions, but when the comments stop being about the subject and begin being about other people...well, that just doesn't "sparkle" for me.
Thanks, Jaimey, for taking the higher road.
...and Pica...nice fridge dear. I think you've found a new marketing gig
Peace, Love, Dope (err...maybe not the last one).....Laurry
Quote from: Laurry on June 06, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
Peace, Love, Dope (err...maybe not the last one).....Laurry
Peace-loving dope? :laugh:
Quote from: Jaimey on June 07, 2011, 11:42:21 PM
Peace-loving dope? :laugh:
I once knew a dope-loving piece
Maybe an 'Oh ya >:(' thread would be helpful. That way I can say ' Really? Well if you think that way then meet me in the Oh Yeah thread after school. All my anger and frustration would be let out in that one thread, sparing all the other topics from my brutish and bullying behaviour.
No, your face.
Did I just miss something there??? ???
I think espo was commenting about the main topic of this thread, not the drift.
Pica started a new drift, to which I am forced to reply "Yo Momma!"
Then again, like Firesign Theatre said, "Everything you know is wrong". Guess that could apply to me here...wouldn't be the first time... ::)
Ahh... an ocean of slang difference. See...I do worry sometimes, even if it may not seem that way.
Do carry on!!
The correct response to "your face" is "YOUR face" - to which I respond, "You are," then you say, "No, YOU are."
Shows how out of touch with modern society I am...I thought the proper response to any such comments was either a) Bite me or b) Go F yourself
Thanks for the etiquette lesson
Quote from: Pica Pica on June 08, 2011, 02:09:41 PM
The correct response to "your face" is "YOUR face" - to which I respond, "You are," then you say, "No, YOU are."
Then I say ' have a nice day ' and then you say ' no, YOU have a nice day '
Quote from: Laurry on June 08, 2011, 02:23:12 PM
Shows how out of touch with modern society I am...I thought the proper response to any such comments was either a) Bite me or b) Go F yourself
Thanks for the etiquette lesson
Please note I spend significant parts of my day with seven year olds.
Speaking of seven year olds (and ye gods, Pica, why would you want to do that?)...
Pee-wee's Big Adventure - I know you are but what am I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5P5eQiKNQs#noexternalembed-ws)
I would do anything to be with my two girls when they were that age, again.
(and I know you are but what am I?)
What does talk to the hand. mean? It seems to be a USA expression.
Cindy
Here's a fairly clear representation:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fradiopatriot.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F01%2Fbigstockphoto_talk_to_the_hand_-_bu.jpg&hash=cdc4de72afd722c433028e37a7afa4e304e087be)
"Talk to the hand, 'cause the face ain't listening!" is the full phrase. Apparently. Means: give up, I'm not listening to you any more.
I heard it said 'talk to the hand cause this ear can't hear'.
I've heard a gay version too: "Talk to the hand, 'cause the wrist is pissed..." :)
I've never heard anything added, here people just say "talk to the hand."
Btw Padma, I love your new avatar :-*
Quote from: Casey Leon on June 11, 2011, 11:03:22 AM
Btw Padma, I love your new avatar :-*
Thanks - just showing off my new earrings (well, and my longer hair, such as it is...) :D
Quote from: Padma on June 11, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
I've heard a gay version too: "Talk to the hand, 'cause the wrist is pissed..." :)
In my mind, that phrase is always followed by, "you've out-gayed me, Barrowman!"
John Barrowman and Simon Amstell - The gay-off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooODVEDFOMk#)
Voilà!
I talked to the hand once, and the bastard flipped me off. Sheesh
Or...
Maybe I should have gone for an epic tale about the journey through fabled lands, fighting terrible enemies, finding unexpected friends, battling hardships and lack of food and water to reach to legendary hand and beg for its wisdom and guidance. Nah, the short, sweet smart-aleck remark is almost always the best...never mind
The bastard flipped me off.
......L
It Happens!
Love your new avatar pic!!
Quote from: ativan on June 12, 2011, 10:53:44 PM
Love your new avatar pic!!
Wow..... very nice Laurry! :)
I was on my way to check the mail (in the fabled land of my apt.s) when a neighbor I tend to call "Bluto" began to verbally spew his B.S. upon me so a put my hand up in "Talk to the hand" fashion and continued... I don't normally do so unless "Bluto" or his brother
"Captain Obnoxious" are about because neither of them are lacking food or water but could possibly do with a breath mint >:-)
Laurry! So CUTE!!! :-*
V M, for some reason (well, not just any reason), when I saw your post, I read "Captain Obnoxious" as "Captain Jack." *squee*
...fyi, the gentleman in the video I posted who says, "talk to the hand 'cause the wrist is pissed" is John Barrowman and he plays Captain Jack on Doctor Who and Torchwood. *nerdgasm* :icon_nosebleed:
I saw him twice in drag doing 'Le Cage Aux Folles' in the west end, very good...made me tear up it did.
(And Laurry, you look wunnerful of course).
Laurry,
Looking good.
You look allot like Zoe Brain.
Very nice, Laurry.
Quote from: Pica Pica on June 14, 2011, 12:23:46 PM
I saw him twice in drag doing 'Le Cage Aux Folles' in the west end, very good...made me tear up it did.
I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Jaimey on June 15, 2011, 09:48:46 PM
I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D Thought you might be, wouldn't have said it otherwise.
Quote from: Pica Pica on June 16, 2011, 12:39:34 AM
:D Thought you might be, wouldn't have said it otherwise.
Bitch
Quote from: Pica Pica on June 16, 2011, 12:39:34 AM
:D Thought you might be, wouldn't have said it otherwise.
:icon_hahano:
What Laurry said.
Beware, Pica. Beware. :icon_invision: