Trans civil servants may be forced to ‘out themselves’ under new guidelines

[Tills]

Regrettably I believe that the United Kingdom is no longer a safe place for transgender people. It has become increasingly toxic and hostile, whipped up by an 'anti-woke' agenda.

xx

[Stottie Girl]

Regrettably I believe that the United Kingdom is no longer a safe place for transgender people. It has become increasingly toxic and hostile, whipped up by an 'anti-woke' agenda.

xx

It will be short lived Tills, I'm sure of it. The UK is not a place of hatred. We have a long history of being accepting and welcoming and standing up for what is right. There are always a minority who are bigotted and full of hate in any society and they are finding their voice right now but in time the reasonable, good people of this country will see what these people truly are like and they will not want to be part of it. They will stand up for what's right eventually. The silent majority will take a stand at some point.

Maybe I have blind faith but I see kindness and goodness all around, it is the media making things seem far worse than they really are. Even the law changes regarding bathrooms is actually pretty toothless when it boils down to it I for one intend to ignore it when I get out there.

Keep the faith Tills!

[big kim]

Regrettably I believe that the United Kingdom is no longer a safe place for transgender people. It has become increasingly toxic and hostile, whipped up by an 'anti-woke' agenda.

xx

You should have seen it in the 90s if you think it's bad now. I agree it's not great today but it's miles better now than in 1990 when I  started hrt and living in role at weekends.

[Laura Squirrel]

You should have seen it in the 90s if you think it's bad now. I agree it's not great today but it's miles better now than in 1990 when I  started hrt and living in role at weekends.

Seems like the UK and the US are on the same page with rolling back trans rights.

[Charlotte Kitty ✅]

I certainly found the UK more hostile when I was a gay man. Now I get no bother really in the grand scheme of things. Dont know if that's because most people don't really care or I'm just passing to the most part. Still feels scary though and worry massively about using changing rooms for example.

I do worry about the direction the UK is going, but more so the lack of empathy. A lot of people are now cold and uncaring.

[Tills]

I do worry about the direction the UK is going, but more so the lack of empathy. A lot of people are now cold and uncaring.

Yes that's the thing which strikes me most. 10 years ago people were friendly and smiley towards me. Now it's exactly as you say: so many are cold and uncaring. (Not just towards us but so many others).

I don't think it's better now than in the 1990's @Kim - I think it's worse and getting worser.

xx

[Tills]

I agree with Lorraine Kelly: people wwre more tolerant in the 70's and 80's than now.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lorraine-kelly-makes-feelings-trans-37391789 🔗

(Warning: that's published in the Scottish Daily Express. The Daily Express is rabidly right wing, racist, and 'anti-woke')

I think we're deluding ourselves, like I did, if we consider things are really okay on the ground. Hostility and toxicity have massively increased, as they have for other groups, fed and spread by vile internet platforms. So whereas previously a critical voice or bigoted opinion could be a lone experience, now there are mass movements of hatred spawned and spewed across society. It's not just about trans rights being rolled back, it's about trans hatred, disdain, spreading. 10 years ago there was protective hate crime legislation, that no longer seems to be applied in the UK to trans comments. 'Everyone is allowed an opinion' is a mantra of this age. So you have newspapers like the Daily Express and Daily Mail who refer to transgender women as 'men'.

It's incredible to me that it's only 7 years since Theresa May resigned as Prime Minister. She was certainly not my political cup of tea but she was preparing to introduce self-certification for transgender identity. That's now unthinkable in the current UK climate. That's how far we have fallen back.

The ruling by the Supreme Court and now upheld by the EHRC that 'biological sex' (a phrase never properly defined) is the defining core identity has made this country untenable for a transgender person, in my opinion.

xx

[Stottie Girl]

I agree with Lorraine Kelly: people wwre more tolerant in the 70's and 80's than now.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lorraine-kelly-makes-feelings-trans-37391789 🔗

(Warning: that's published in the Scottish Daily Express. The Daily Express is rabidly right wing, racist, and 'anti-woke')

I think we're deluding ourselves, like I did, if we consider things are really okay on the ground. Hostility and toxicity have massively increased, as they have for other groups, fed and spread by vile internet platforms. So whereas previously a critical voice or bigoted opinion could be a lone experience, now there are mass movements of hatred spawned and spewed across society. It's not just about trans rights being rolled back, it's about trans hatred, disdain, spreading. 10 years ago there was protective hate crime legislation, that no longer seems to be applied in the UK to trans comments. 'Everyone is allowed an opinion' is a mantra of this age. So you have newspapers like the Daily Express and Daily Mail who refer to transgender women as 'men'.

It's incredible to me that it's only 7 years since Theresa May resigned as Prime Minister. She was certainly not my political cup of tea but she was preparing to introduce self-certification for transgender identity. That's now unthinkable in the current UK climate. That's how far we have fallen back.

The ruling by the Supreme Court and now upheld by the EHRC that 'biological sex' (a phrase never properly defined) is the defining core identity has made this country untenable for a transgender person, in my opinion.

xx

I agree it looks bleak, this isn't just a UK thing though. THese movements are all over the world now. There does not seem to be much appetite for fight back right now but that will change. The supreme court judgemnt was idiotic in my view, those judges should be debarred for what they did. The EHRC did not really have much choice as they had to work within the confines of the legislation. Legislation that was created in parliment and that could equally be re-written to get around the judgement I might add, sadly there appears to be no political will at the moment as trans rights is not a vote winner.

I still have hope that the multiple ongoing legal challenges to the supreme court and also the European Court of Human Rights will either overturn the decision or force open a loophole that gets us round this issue. The majority of people do not want this crackdown on trans people and businesses and employers do not want to have to spend millions on changing WC facilities across the country. There will be pushback even if nobody takes up our cause directly. And if not, we have our own resident militant leader up in her cosy cottage in Scotland lol!

In the meantime, just ignore the rules and regulations, it is still NOT a criminal offence to use the bathroom or single sex space of your gender identity, so what can they actually do about it? Employers won't want to sack you and face high profile unfair dismisal cases based on denial of basic human rights! Ask you to leave? well maybe but I doubt many shops will want to cause a scene and by the time they get their managers to respond you would have finished and been on your way. I don't feel that women are confrontational in this country so in most cases the most you would get are harsh looks.

[Finally Anna]

TLDR: Divide and conquer.
The tide will turn when the voice of the general public makes it clear that it does not want the anti-trans rhetoric and anti-trans changes. Until then, a slippery slope downwards for as long as it creates political traction that might gain votes and attention. This is a general modus operandi that applies not only to the anti-trans issues but to many things political that can be "weaponized" for whatever cause. So, unfortunately, things are likely to get worse for yet a while.

[Tills]

I agree it looks bleak, this isn't just a UK thing though. THese movements are all over the world now.

Hi Stottie Girl. Nice to be chatting again

Well there are other countries that are totally different from the current UK and US zeitgeist. There are countries where there is little or no pushback against trans rights and some, indeed, which are continuing to progress support and protection. There are other threads to further that discussion but I think the UK and US are now horrible places in which to be a woman (or man) who was assigned the wrong body at birth and where being oneself IS increasingly treated as a felony.

Sorry but I do think it's bleak in the UK and US, and this is not going to be for me for much longer. I am taking self-protective action.

xx

[Charlotte Kitty ✅]

I honestly don't see anything changing in the UK at all in the short term. I'll be doing everything I can to find and stick with allies, which thankfully I have as my work and running club appear full of educated people.

I think I really do pass - i got hassle at the weekend for what my partner and me were wearing, they didn't figure i was trans. My colleague was confused at first as she said i look completely like a woman - had to explain it was an attack on our clothes.

It's sad though its becoming a passing game now and kills options to be more enby whilst retaining safety.

[Devlyn ✅]

Three steps forward and two steps back. It wasn't long ago that only 50% of the world had rights. If only a small percentage* of people are being denied rights now, it's still better than it used to be. It certainly isn't fun being in a targeted group, I'll agree with that.

It's easy to fall into declinism. In reality, the world as a whole is trending upwards. It has its ups and downs of course.



*I know that a lot of people here use the "0.01 % of the population" number, but I'm more onboard with the 3-6% figure. That's probably because I like the idea of the entire community being included, not just a subset.

[Stottie Girl]

Hi Stottie Girl. Nice to be chatting again

Well there are other countries that are totally different from the current UK and US zeitgeist. There are countries where there is little or no pushback against trans rights and some, indeed, which are continuing to progress support and protection. There are other threads to further that discussion but I think the UK and US are now horrible places in which to be a woman (or man) who was assigned the wrong body at birth and where being oneself IS increasingly treated as a felony.

Sorry but I do think it's bleak in the UK and US, and this is not going to be for me for much longer. I am taking self-protective action.

xx

I've missed you too Tills!

Well maybe I'm being daft or naive to have hope and optimism. Only time will tell I guess.

You strike me as a free spirit who has lived abroad in some very interesting places so I totally understand why, for you, upping sticks and moving to another country is relatively easy. For me, I'm a bit of a homebody, I'm not as adventurous, I'm also a lot further behind on the journey than you are.

I had hoped you would find happiness and peace in your little scottish cottage away from the stress of it all as that is my dream one day but if it's not a right fit for you then you know your own mind. Do what makes you feel happy and safe.

[Charlotte Kitty ✅]

I've missed you too Tills!

Well maybe I'm being daft or naive to have hope and optimism. Only time will tell I guess.

You strike me as a free spirit who has lived abroad in some very interesting places so I totally understand why, for you, upping sticks and moving to another country is relatively easy. For me, I'm a bit of a homebody, I'm not as adventurous, I'm also a lot further behind on the journey than you are.

I had hoped you would find happiness and peace in your little scottish cottage away from the stress of it all as that is my dream one day but if it's not a right fit for you then you know your own mind. Do what makes you feel happy and safe.

I'm with you on this one. Although I adapt well when I'm abroad, having social anxiety and psychological issues is not a good recipe for success in a new place. And I'd never be great at finding work either, much red tape since leaving EU.