An anti anti-gay marriage thought

[Teri Anne]

I'm a post op M2F.  I realize that that is just one of the many things that differentiate me from others.  I tend to walk my own path.  Sometimes there are flowers on that path and, sometimes, not.

If I am denied marriage to a woman because I am now, both outside and inside, a woman, I would consider doing something, er, unthinkable:  Presenting myself as male, just for a day, to marry a woman I TRULY love.  I would want her to have all of the normal things couples have (including part of my pension and social security should I die).  If this breaks the rules of being a post-op transsexual, so be it.  Rules (like anti-gay marriage amendments) are often made up by only part of society.  It harkens back to the worry some of our founding fathers had about our country:  They feared that popular elections would lead to "mob rule."  By subverting their "rules" and posing as a man for one day in order to give my life's love what she deserves, well, that's, to me, a small price.  I might have to change my name to a non-gender specific name -- something like "Chris."  I realize most will disagree but, given the odd rules society comes up with sometimes, I feel it is my Don Quiotish side, bashing those windmills, coming through. 

Ready or not.  I might

Teri Anne

P.S. - No, I have no plans on changing from F back to M for any longer than a marriage ceremony would require.  I'm very happy as I am!

[cindianna_jones]

Teri,

I'm looking at your picture and wondering how you'd ever pull that off! You are just too cute! I'd check with a lawyer first.  I'd hate to see you get burned for what you thought was a sure thing.

Here in California, partnerships can be validated without being married.  As far as I know, most rights are covered.  I do not know about pensions.  But that would be an easy thing to check.  Just pick a nice spot and move in.  There are hundreds of wonderful places here.  Pick your favorite clime and we have it.

Cindi

[Julie Marie]

Teri, I'm all for doing whatever makes you happy so long as you don't harm anyone in the process (I'm not talking emotional harm).  But what you are talking about doing can't be as easy as you make it sound. 

Changing your gender from female to male then back again would take a lot.  Just getting it changed initially can be a nightmare.  I appreciate your love for your SO but there has to be a better way. 

Take Cindi's advice.  Find out what's really in store for you.  And check out other places that don't have the limitations you are presently bogged down with.

Whatever happens I hope you are able to pull this off with the least amount of hassle.

Julie

[Shana A]

Regretably, marriage between you and your spouse would be considered invalid once you changed back to female. You could travel to Massachusetts or Canada and get married legally, but depending on CA law, your marriage would likely not be recognized once you came back home.

zythyra

[Steph]

....By subverting their "rules" and posing as a man for one day in order to give my life's love what she deserves, well, that's, to me, a small price.  I might have to change my name to a non-gender specific name -- something like "Chris."  I realize most will disagree but, given the odd rules society comes up with sometimes, I feel it is my Don Quiotish side, bashing those windmills, coming through....

Teri Anne

I think that the real question would be that what you would do would be considered fraudulent thereby nullifying the marriage regardless if you got away with it.  Using any other name than your legal one is a bit risky.

Steph

[Laurry]

Hi Teri

Presenting as male would not be enough.  You are going to have to produce birth certificates and other forms of ID to get the license.  As you are Post-op (and cute as a speckled pup!), you have probably gone through the legal issues to have your sex "officially" changed to Female.  As such, most states do not allow same sex marriages.  Sadly, this is one place your transgendered status works against you.  The old saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" comes to mind.  If, for some reason, all your legal documents still show you as Male, then I say "knock yourself out" and go for it.

Since I am not a lawyer (and have no desire to be one), you should consult with an attorney and find out the true facts.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

......Laurie

[melissa90299]

I'm a post op M2F.  I realize that that is just one of the many things that differentiate me from others.  I tend to walk my own path.  Sometimes there are flowers on that path and, sometimes, not.

If I am denied marriage to a woman because I am now, both outside and inside, a woman, I would consider doing something, er, unthinkable:  Presenting myself as male, just for a day, to marry a woman I TRULY love. 

I am not a lawyer but I worked in the legal field. IMNSHO if you entered into a marriage on these grounds, it could very well be voided if one of the participants decided to challenge its validity.

[Teri Anne]

It's odd that the religious right would still consider me male despite my legal paper trail changing me from M to F.  I would have thought that the religious right, being they think I'm "M" would have no problem giving me a "marriage" certificate.  I guess THEY want THEIR CAKE on both sides, lol.

In any case, my "thought" is not based on any current need to "get married."  After dating several years after being post op, I've kind of given up dating and the idea that someone I might fall in love with would WANT to marry me.  Though my photo shows a smiling person, I feel like I've been through a bad movie.  "Normal" people tend to run like heck when they find out my past.  It's a shame because I have a VERY romantic nature.  I watch romantic movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and have come to the realization that I have as much hope as finding love as I do in getting hit by lightning.

My query regarding marriage is more of philosophical in nature regarding my possible "marriage" future, not my present.  And maybe, with a lot of luck, society will change its bigoted ways and "marriage" for all will become a non-issue.

Teri Anne

P.S. - I currently live in L.A. but have hopes of moving to Washington state (whenever my place sells).

[Andrew]

Why don't you go to Massachusetts? Gay marriage is legal here, and if I marry a man (which I very well might, if I get tired of the chicks!), I'll be able to get married.

And...um...how did you ever pass as a guy? Your shoulders and chin are so teeny and cute!

[Hazumu]

I know of a trans couple who legally married.  Their birth certificates still show their birth sex.  She had her last name legally changed to be identical to her fiancee's last name a month before the ceremony.  The state sees nothing unusual about this marriage.

The whole idea of denying two people the opportunity to enter into a legal union only because they do not fit the conservative, stern-father-family model angers me.  Rather than fighting it, perhaps we non-normals should look into ways to legally circumvent their attempts to enforce the excluding of anybody not fitting the stern-father-husband-with-supportive-subordinate-wife model they are defending.  Maybe some sort of legal contract, maybe some sort of one person 'adopting' the other as an heir -- something!  And have it fly right under their radar so that it becomes too big and complicated to undo.

Sorry, I sort of slipped into rant mode there...

By the way, there's no such thing as 'Gay marriage'.  Marriage is marriage, you do not 'do' it differently if the couple are both the same gender.  You still love, cherish, honor and obey.

Karen

[Teri Anne]

Thank you, Andrew, for the kind words.  I do have to admit to you that I have not posted on Susan's one of my lousy photographs, lol (I do have them).  I guess it's human nature to want to put my best foot (and face) forwards.

Karen, your point that there's really no such thing as "gay marriage" (that "marriage is marriage, do not 'do' it differently) is a good one!  I hadn't considered that.  I wonder if gays or conservatives made up the term, "gay marriage."   

Teri Anne

[Hazumu]

I wonder if gays or conservatives made up the term, "gay marriage."

Conservative, in order to frame the debate in the most favorable-to-their-position terms.  In order to do battle, we must destroy that frame and make it unusable by them.

Article 🔗 [Link: rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/samesex/]

When conservatives speak of the "defense of marriage," liberals are baffled. After all, no individual's marriage is being threatened. It's just that more marriages are being allowed. But conservatives see the strict father family, and with it, their political values as under attack. They are right. This is a serious matter for their politics and moral values as a whole. Even civil unions are threatening, since they create families that cannot be traditional strict father families.

Karen is putting her soapbox away for the night... 

Karen

[Robyn]

Rermember, also, that you can be married as two women in Ohio, the 4th Judicial District of Texas (Bexar County) and Kansas as they would still consider you male for purposes of marriage.  All you'd need is original birth certificate and name change documentation.  You wouldn't have to pose as a man.

Robyn