How to talk to the ladies

[Brandon]

loooool when you're older, you'll realize friend zone isn't a real thing. you want to know why a girl decides to be your friend instead of romantic? even if you are nice, and they say they want a "nice guy" but don't go after you? it's because you..you know..act like a friend. a girl isn't gonna just jump your bones because you're nice to her. you actually have to show some interest. doing things FRIENDS do, isn't gonna give her a hint you're into her (like listening to her complain about other guys, etc. this is stuff FRIENDS do....not someone who is into her does only...) and even if you do act into her and you're nice and w/e else, she might just not be interested and you can't blame her for that. a woman has a right to say no and not be obligated to give you anything or be called names and w/e else just because you show interest in her.

oh and one more thing? saying "not all men are like that" just makes you a part of the problem. you should acknowledge the fact that girls deal with guys every day who hit on them or whatever else. they're gonna think a guy just wants sex but that doesn't mean she thinks all guys are like that but with what she deals with? she's gonna act the same to you as she does every other guy and it has nothing to do with you but her own safety probably. you honestly can't blame a woman for not being interested in you, saying how she's this and that just because she didn't accept your advances and w/e else. that just makes you a part of the problem, that makes you exactly like all the other guys if you get mad, or say these things because you're treating her like an object, just like they are. you aren't acknowledging that there's an issue, you're just becoming a part of it.

you should read the comic jen posted because it's pretty accurate.

Technically it is, All it is is liking someone who doesn't feel the same some girls don't wanna date nice guys some wanr bad guys I've talked to enough girls to know that and most relationships start with friendships first duh, And it's true some girls don't know a good man when they find one and then they wanna complain and say aint know good mn out here like I said alot of us guys aren't expecting anything in return I'm sorry most girls do think all we wanna do is smash or think thats what we all want, I don't have to be nice to get it and act just because I want it I don't treat women like an object. i'm not that type of guy if I wanna hit it I will tell you in a heart beat.

[invisiblemonsters]

Technically it is, All it is is liking someone who doesn't feel the same some girls don't wanna date nice guys some wanr bad guys I've talked to enough girls to know that and most relationships start with friendships first duh, And it's true some girls don't know a good man when they find one and then they wanna complain and say aint know good mn out here like I said alot of us guys aren't expecting anything in return I'm sorry most girls do think all we wanna do is smash or think thats what we all want, I don't have to be nice to get it and act just because I want it I don't treat women like an object. i'm not that type of guy if I wanna hit it I will tell you in a heart beat.

friend zone and a girl rejecting you are totally different things. if you can't tell the difference then idk what to say to you. friend zone is where guys expect sex because they're nice to a girl, being rejected is just a girl not being interested in you even if you show interest. they're completely different things. you will realize that the "bad boy" phase is exactly that..a phase. do you think women settle down with bad boys? someone who can't keep a job? raise a family? who their parents don't like? no. and as i said, girls think these things because it's what they're used to and it still has nothing to do with you.

i'm not gonna keep arguing over this because it's getting off topic. just know this, you could be the best guy in the world, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to turn you down. and if you start off with a friendship and you keep acting like her friend, treating her like an actual human then say she "friend zoned" you, you're a part of the problem, not her. even if you show interest in her and she still just wants to be your friend and you still say she "friend zoned" you just because she didn't accept your advance..again..you're a part of the problem. women still don't owe you anything and don't have to be interested in you because you treat her like a human and act like a decent human yourself, honestly.

[Brandon]

friend zone and a girl rejecting you are totally different things. if you can't tell the difference then idk what to say to you. friend zone is where guys expect sex because they're nice to a girl, being rejected is just a girl not being interested in you even if you show interest. they're completely different things. you will realize that the "bad boy" phase is exactly that..a phase. do you think women settle down with bad boys? someone who can't keep a job? raise a family? who their parents don't like? no. and as i said, girls think these things because it's what they're used to and it still has nothing to do with you.

i'm not gonna keep arguing over this because it's getting off topic. just know this, you could be the best guy in the world, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to turn you down. and if you start off with a friendship and you keep acting like her friend, treating her like an actual human then say she "friend zoned" you, you're a part of the problem, not her. even if you show interest in her and she still just wants to be your friend and you still say she "friend zoned" you just because she didn't accept your advance..again..you're a part of the problem. women still don't owe you anything and don't have to be interested in you because you treat her like a human and act like a decent human yourself, honestly.

You don't have to want sex to get friendzoned thats my point you could just want to date her and she has no interest thats what it is she sees you as a friend only hence friendzoned.

[Bombadil]

well, ok, I seem to have started something. I understand what friendzone is. I am not worried about that. I'm with the women on this. Knowing what it means, I find it kind of lame.

And I guess this conversation has reassured me. I think I'll be ok. I like people, be they women or men or whatever. I like to listen. I want to know the person. I care and don't want to do harm. (corny, I know).

So as long as I remember that I'm a guy now and that creates some new boundaries for me, I guess I'll be fine in the day to day stuff.

Will it?

Dr Who Gets called sweetie all the time by RIVER

Moded my post. I Mean aaahh My head, sweetie is still ok right? Makes me wonder how much privalige with woman i had coz gay vibes.

yes, I think being a guy will change things. I do believe there is such a thing as male privilege and I also know that unfortunately, there a history of guys treating women like objects. I know not all men do, but it's been enough of a societal factor that it's a part of our (western) culture now. Grace gave the example of female college jokingly calling her a . And it was ok, because it was between two women. As a female I've done that kind of joking, I can't imagine doing it as a guy. It's too loaded. It's a term used to blame and marginalize women. And as a man I have to be conscious of the fact that I'm part of the group that has done the victimizing and marginalizing.

And before someone jumps all over me, I am not saying all men are like that. I know they aren't. But that reality still exists. So as a man, I have to accept that's part of the reality. I have to accept that women may have some caution, fear, anger about things I do or say that aren't directly about me.

And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).

And too all the ladies who commented. Thank you I appreciate it. And Jess42 you are definitely not butting into anything 

PS- I'm lame, I've never seen Dr Who

[ReubenIsTheName]

I, personally, haven't really had the problems talking to women the way guys do. I've been openly bisexual for years now, which has slowly progressed to a very heavy female lean, only other FTMs and perhaps a very special guy being the only exceptions. Therefore, talking to females has never really been that much of a problem. The only difference is that now, they would have to get to know me as Reuben the straight male, instead of Samantha/Sam the lesbian female. Also, they'd have to be able to handle it (so to speak) when I start testosterone, and after surgery. However, since I was raised in the female culture, and I'm also a victim of estrogen (though to a lesser degree of females), I know how to treat women better, and how they want to be treated/how they feel, etc; to some degree more than most cismales.

[Jess42]

And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).
And too all the ladies who commented. Thank you I appreciate it. And Jess42 you are definitely not butting into anything 

PS- I'm lame, I've never seen Dr Who

That part christopher is what I find the most adorable in a guy that flirts with me. It is hard to explain but it makes me feel that he feels that he is not worthy of my attention. Do ya' know what I mean? It makes me feel better and more confident in myself and feel that this guy is truly worth my attention.

[ReubenIsTheName]

And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).

I definitely relate to ya there. I can do plenty of flirting in IMs, texts, etc.; but when it comes to talking to someone I actually know, or in person, I kinda freeze up and look all dumb. Like, I haven't been able to see myself having sex with anyone for a very long time now. The "someday seems possible" thing is for sure true for me.

[BORNTOFLY]

I'm just starting my journey & I get nervous too, esp around ladies that I find attractive, whether aesthetically or internally. Its amazing what a warm smile does & just being yourself. As you roam further into you the pieces will come together & it will get easier.

And its so true what Jess42 said about cheesy pick up lines, the ladies eat it up! It makes them laugh & breaks the ice...perfect combo!

And as I always say...a confident man is a desired man so own it bro

[Jess42]

And its so true what Jess42 said about cheesy pick up lines, the ladies eat it up! It makes them laugh & breaks the ice...perfect combo!

No lie, I do love 'em. But one word of advice, if you are gonna feed me a cheesy pickup line, you better have some wine (not whine ) to go with it. And I ain't talking about Night Train or MD20/20 either. If we hit it off, that may come later cause I get wild on the cheap stuff.

BORNTOFLY, you got it right, confidence without being conceted is a really good thing. But like I said I like the shyness too but you have to have the conficence to overcome that shyness.

I do need to add one thing though that there are some girls out there that are just as into themselves as some guys that think every guy is drooling over them and would bow down to their every whim. Don't let those girls discourage you. A rude or mean person is so not worth your attention and even if you do eventually get it, they are not fun people to be around.

Playing hard to get is one thing and I love to play it but if someone is rude and just outright mean, leave her alone. Like I said I love playing hard to get but if you catch me looking at you twice and quickly looking away, you definately have my interest. I may make ya' work a little for my attention but not too awfully hard though. Just enjoy the game and see it just as that, a game. Something that's supposed to be fun no matter how awkward it may feel.

[BORNTOFLY]

Well said Jess42, its always awesome to see girls be the cheerleaders for the guys, as no matter how much we got it together we're still scratching our heads sometimes when it comes to the ladies!

And very true...wine & dine the ladies, not whine n dine

Like anything else quality is more rare so its a numbers game. Even if you think a girl is ''out of your league'' just start chatting w/ her as it builds experience & confidence. Then eventually your soulmate will be gleaming at you from across the room...all in time bro

[Jill F]

I like politeness, respect, charm, wit, and guys who don't come off as predatory, creepy, fake or are unapologetically cocky type-A jerks.   Just the right brand of weird might be OK, but the wrong weirdo is a complete turn-off.   And buy me a drink.  I like that.  If I have to buy a guy a vinegar and water in return, he'll know I think he's a complete douchebag.

I'm sort of new to this "getting hit on by guys" thing, but after SRS my wife and I are likely to play the cougar sandwich game.  Who wants to get REALLY lucky? LOL

[Jess42]

Well said Jess42, its always awesome to see girls be the cheerleaders for the guys, as no matter how much we got it together we're still scratching our heads sometimes when it comes to the ladies!

Yep and we like to keep it that way. If a guy isn't willing to put forth a little effort well.... I'm definately not the girl that will walk up to you, slap you in the face and plant a big one on your lips. I am the one that will be a little elusive, shyly look down when our eyes meet, may smile to myself or have a little giggle with a friend that I am sitting with and if you catch me looking again then I am definately interested. I am a "You're a guy so take charge" type of girl. Like I said it is basically a dance or a game and defintely something to be enjoyed by both people.

[BORNTOFLY]

Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit

[Jill F]

Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit

You are right about women picking up on things.  I can read faces and I'd take all of your money at poker if I had any interest in hypermasculine competitive activities whatsoever, but I don't and you can keep your cash.

And keeping guys guessing and chasing is pretty childish.  Once you reach a certain age, wasting time unnecessarily is a no-no.  I haven't been "one of the girls" in the inner circle for very long and I know I'm a bit late to the party, but we sort of know within about two minutes if you're going to be in or out and we don't normally change our minds.  If you get any backlash, it's a hint you're probably best off looking elsewhere.  If we come back for you, it's a good sign.  We DO share stories about getting hit on by idiots, creeps and clueless tools though.

[timbuck2]

In regards to the friendzone: remember that it's not a real thing. A girl will either like you or she wont and no one needs a label to feel better about being rejected. If you know how to talk to people (and it's really easy as long as you're confident and respectful) you wont have to believe in the friendzone because you know that relatioships only come in romantic or platonic intentions. That's the end of it

Anyway...people in the real world are never going to be as offended as they are on the internet. Be yourself, be courteous, and dont put too much thought into how you're coming off to the other person. Just talk. It's easier than you think.

[Jess42]

Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit

I'll definately never tell. Just enjoy the dance. But seriously it is all about your approach as to how I react. If you are confident I will be more shy so you have to make me feel comfortable enough to open up, if you are shy I will be a little less shy to boost your confidence enough. Like I said I want you to take the lead.

A little more in depth explaination: Hypothetically I am interested in identical twins so looks aren't a factor. One approaches me and asks what I am drinking, then my name and nice to meet you and all of that. I will be way more shy around that confident guy. Oh yeah I am still very interested but shy so it is up to you to make me feel comfortable enough to open up. OK wipe the board clean from that scenario, now the other twin is a little less confident and sends me a drink of whatever I am drinking. Definately I will give the waiter or waitress a note to give to him thanking him. I will make more eye contact and smile and then if he still can't build up the courage, I'll invite him over. Still I am very interested but he is shy and I will try to boost his confidence enough to feel comfortable enough to take the reigns. Same level of interest because looks are identical but two totally different reactions from me depending on you and your appraoch.

Does that take away some of the confusion of how women act toward guys and why our actions are so unpredictable. There really is no confusion or guessing to it. Believe me, If I like you you will know.

[BORNTOFLY]

Yep true Jess42..its a dance but that's the best part

And thanks for shedding more light...its interesting to see how the initial ''game'' & ultimately more is played out. Oh how we love thy ladies!

[Jess42]

Yep true Jess42..its a dance but that's the best part

And thanks for shedding more light...its interesting to see how the initial ''game'' & ultimately more is played out. Oh how we love thy ladies!

You are very welcome. Ahh, thank you, that was so sweet and oh how we ladies love you guys too. I will always be on the sidelines cheering all of you on.

As for the dance, the "slow dance" is definately my favorite part. Metaphorically when all the formalities are out of the way and two people can truly get to know one another and then go from there. Actually metophorically and in real life. That is when the closeness begins. Again this is just me but definately if I will slow dance with you, you got me hooked. Still maybe not quite fallen but definately trippin' for sure .

[BORNTOFLY]

Words of wisdom Jess42...thanks

And maybe one of these days I will see ya on the dance floor & we can banter more about the ''game'' 

[Jess42]

Words of wisdom Jess42...thanks

And maybe one of these days I will see ya on the dance floor & we can banter more about the ''game'' 

Well hon, you gotta lead me to the dancefloor. Like you said you are an apha male type. Whish is exactly my type. If we ever meet take charge and don't ask but tell me you want that dance.

I really hope that I helped you understand how we girls think.