Which fork would you take?

[wheat thins are delicious]

who could have been gay and popular but chose to transition anyway

trans people.

[MsDazzler]

Transition is not about how attractive you will be or how much sex you will have it's about being happy with how you look and live your life.

Totally ficitious - we all are born to appreciate beauty . Experiments have showed that even infants react better and happier to pics of gorgeous people than ugly ones. Transition is about appearances and the degree of beauty and appearance is correlated, like it or not,.

And you are assuming that people need those "doors" opened for them to be happy and fulfilled in life.

But the more doors opened, the more potential for your life to be happier and even more fulfilled

[MsDazzler]

trans people.

what do you mean ? like i said, most of the MTFs were hetero men before they transitioned thus the concept of being gay is repugnant to them, so I am not surprised heh

[kelly_aus]

I was the first option.. and I'm happily taking the second option.

And why am I happy to take the second option? I'm not a man, can't be a man, never was one.. And I'd rather have a partner that is not solely wrapped up in appearances and will take my character and personality in to account.. Shallow people are not a turn on for me anyway..

[MacKenzie]

  Transition isn't about being a beauty queen. Sure I think we all would like to look like super models but that just isn't gonna happen for some so should they just not transition and be miserable just because they will probably never attract anyone? - No absolutely not, transition is not about sex it's about being who you really are and not living a lie.   

[Steffi]

I'm post-op, aren't pretty and don't even pass most of the time.
I'm somewhat lonely and doubt anyone will ever love me.
Would I do it all again?  Hell yeah, in an eyeblink!
- does that answer your question? 

If you are still currently awash with testosterone then whether you are consciously aware of it or not sexual activity is a core fundamental of your psyche and you cannot imagine what it is actually like to not have that. 
I enjoy sex, but it is now an option that I can choose IF I find someone attractive enough.  IMO male sex-drive is a permanent itch and one is looking for someone to scratch it - almost anyone above a certain theshold of fugliness will do, and the more it itches the lower that threshold is.   

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Ms Daz,

Your views on sexuality and your obsession with 'appearance' and 'sex' is truly intriguing...Not that it's a bad thing,[whatever rocks ones boat I say]... I'm just fascinated by it...

Metta Zenda

 

[MsDazzler]

  Transition isn't about being a beauty queen. Sure I think we all would like to look like super models but that just isn't gonna happen for some so should they just not transition and be miserable just because they will probably never attract anyone? - No absolutely not, transition is not about sex it's about being who you really are and not living a lie. 

It may be hard for you to believe, but transition also doesn't have to be always about being who you are, either. People transition for a variety of reasons. That is one reason a myth was mentioned in the other thread titled "Myths vs. Reality about transgender people"...

Transgender people must have a deep hatred of their genitalia to the point of suicide where they must transition or else

I m sure you know what the reality is, right? 

For some people, transition is just a better option for them based solely on appearances. I submit "I'm Ugly as a Guy, I'm going to be a really ugly woman, i have no hope left" thread created by Syms29 as evidence.

[MsDazzler]

If you are still currently awash with testosterone then whether you are consciously aware of it or not sexual activity is a core fundamental of your psyche and you cannot imagine what it is actually like to not have that. 
I enjoy sex, but it is now an option that I can choose IF I find someone attractive enough.  IMO male sex-drive is a permanent itch and one is looking for someone to scratch it - almost anyone above a certain theshold of fugliness will do, and the more it itches the lower that threshold is.   

No, I have been on hormones for two months now and testosterone is practically next to nil in my system at this point.

I've always had a female sex drive prior to transitioning, though. Yes, I participated in promisicous sexual behavior but that is hardly exclusive to either gender. Now after hormones, I feel the stronger need to cuddle and for intimacy rather than sex, but it has been always there since, just magnified by hormones now.

[wheat thins are delicious]

It may be hard for you to believe, but transition also doesn't have to be always about being who you are, either. People transition for a variety of reasons. That is one reason a myth was mentioned in the other thread titled "Myths vs. Reality about transgender people"...

Transgender people must have a deep hatred of their genitalia to the point of suicide where they must transition or else

I m sure you know what the reality is, right? 

For some people, transition is just a better option for them based solely on appearances. I submit "I'm Ugly as a Guy, I'm going to be a really ugly woman, i have no hope left" thread created by Syms29 as evidence.

What are you saying exactly?  That some people who were assigned male at birth and identify as male transition to female so that they can have sex with men? 

[Nurse With Wound]

As much as I get depressed about being "lonely" (despite going out multiple times a week, and still being that shy person) and getting extremely dysphoric about whether I'll look good or not months down the line.

I would still pick option #2, because I'm not a guy, I never want to live as a guy, no matter how popular or sexually active I am (for one thing being sexually active as a guy, ergo much penis use would make me very dysphoric).

To me the options aren't one very positive one and one very negative one, the options are both two very negative ones as I'd be miserable living as a popular attractive guy (gay or not, plus being hot as a guy would be no different than being ugly as a guy for me, as I'd still be a guy) and I'd be miserable about being ugly and lonely. But option #2 has the appeal of at least being comfortable as myself.

[MacKenzie]

It may be hard for you to believe, but transition also doesn't have to be always about being who you are, either. People transition for a variety of reasons. That is one reason a myth was mentioned in the other thread titled "Myths vs. Reality about transgender people"...

Transgender people must have a deep hatred of their genitalia to the point of suicide where they must transition or else

  I don't remember saying anything about people having to transition because they hate their genitals but mkay. All I said was that you shouldn't base your decision to transition on looks alone. 

What are you saying exactly?  That some people who were assigned male at birth and identify as male transition to female so that they can have sex with men? 

Yeah it seems like that doesn't it? I asked her that question in another thread and she got mad and smited me lol!   

[Raya]

It may be hard for you to believe, but transition also doesn't have to be always about being who you are, either. People transition for a variety of reasons.

*ker-snip*

If "Appearances" and "sex" are why you are transitioning, more power to you. Nobody is denying you your motivation or your right to transition. All I ask is that you allow others the same courtesy.

[0451]

I think I'd rather be the gay dude.  Not having a social life or sex, and having to look at my ugly self in the mirror would be just as upsetting as looking in the mirror with dysphoria.  The other thing I should mention is that ugliness =/= no social life.  Plenty of ugly people have friends.  So you're handicapping the female choice big time.

Before everyone jumps on me- let me explain.  This does not mean I am transitioning purely so I can be a pretty girl.  I'd be content being a 4/10 so to speak.  Dysphoria for me is very appearance and socialization related.  If I just looked like an ugly man in a dress, and nobody accepted me, and I have no friends, I don't think my mental state would be much better.  I'd still have dysphoria of a sort.  There are other neuroses than GID- crippling depression would hardly be any better.  At least as a gay dude I'd have something to distract me from it.  Ultimately the question is one of happiness.  Just being a woman isn't magically going to save you from depression, anxiety, and anger from lack of sex, low self esteem, and no social contact.  Life as a women isn't all lollipops and vaginas!  If you think this, you are hardly any better than somebody who is transitioning solely to be pretty!

However in my case, neither option is likely.  I am not a gay man, nor am I interested in m/m sex.  Also, I am fairly young and good looking.  I think with the proper effort, I should be a pretty girl.  I'm not sure the question applies- I'm not gay now.  Would I become gay?  If this is the case, is it unreasonable to question if I still have GID?

For me it's a question of going from a decent looking straight guy with GID to a (hopefully) decent looking bi girl without GID.

[fionabell]

Being an ugly trans woman is not the same as being a non-passable Trans woman.

None of us are completely passable but I know I'll be quite passable so it's worth it to me to transition. If I look like an ugly woman that's ok.

If I was terrible as passing then no I wouldn't do it. This doesn't mean I'm less trans than anyone else, I've just seen the gravely disastrous life those kinds of trans women are in. Cutting off the nose to spite the face.

I'm sorry for all the militant people I'm offending but it's not supportive or kind keep silent on this issue. And it would go against my conscience.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

  "Ugliness is a property of a person or thing that is unpleasant to look upon and results in a highly unfavorable evaluation. To be ugly is to be aesthetically unattractive, repulsive, or offensive.[31] Like its opposite, beauty, ugliness involves a subjective judgment and is at least partly in the "eye of the beholder." Thus, the perception of ugliness can be mistaken or short-sighted, as in the story of The Ugly Duckling by Hans Christian Andersen !"

" Although ugliness is normally viewed as a visible characteristic, it can also be an internal attribute. For example, an individual could be outwardly attractive but inwardly thoughtless and cruel !"

Without ugliness there can be no beauty and without beauty there can be no ugliness..It's all based upon the individual's perception...

It's an oldie but a goody "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!"

An Old or A Young Woman (how to find them)

Metta Zenda

[0451]

Allow me to rephrase that- If I were an extremely ugly women (even if passing), it would still be hard to look in the mirror.  Why would I want to go from hating to what I see in the mirror to hating what I see in the mirror?  I guess passing makes the question a whole lot harder, but even still, like I said- I'd rather be an otherwise happy/psychologically normal gay guy with GID (inasmuch as one can be otherwise happy with GID) than a miserable woman with all the psychological baggage that comes from body image issues and social isolation and sexual frustration.  I think at least.

It's a question of GID vs. body image issues, social isolation, anxiety, and no sex.  Both angles come with a side serving of depression.  You really lose either way.  May as well get sex, good looks, and a healthy social life out of the deal.

For many trans women though it is a false dichotomy.  For some, fixing their GID can help them with body image issues, social troubles, and even sex life.  But the OP's question precludes this.

[MsDazzler]

What are you saying exactly?  That some people who were assigned male at birth and identify as male transition to female so that they can have sex with men?

Sigh... I ll copy and paste what I wrote in the other thread titled "When did you realize that you were not really gay but trans?":


Re: When did you realize you're not really Gay but Trans?
« Reply #17 on: Today at 07:11:34 pm »Quote Modify Remove Quote from: Asha on Today at 07:02:46 pm
  Yikes...so your really just a gay guy who became a woman for more sex?   

I ve been always trans since birth, but led a gay lifestyle when puberty hit because I thought it was me becaue I did not know better and my feminine interests was oppressed growing up. Also there was no Internet back there and I did not know anybody who was transgender until I finally got to college 10 years ago. I was gay throughout college and tried out that lifestyle but it was not working for me and I preferred being a trans woman so I decided to transition.

Again, sex with men was A FACTOR in my decision to transition, yes, but it was NOT just the SOLE and DEFINING FACTOR.

I dunno how many times I can say this again and again.

[Dana_H]

I regard myself as already being a woman, but my anatomy would suggest that I am male. Does that make me an "ugly woman"?  I'm bi, so going either way would be about equally limiting. As for being lonely, I've already been there; for many years, actually. (Finally found a wonderful woman who loved me "before" and also looks forward to "after" almost as much as I do.)

I guess if I am limited to only "hot gay man" or "ugly straight woman" I'd have to choose the latter because at least then I would feel self-consistent. Besides, there are options for dealing with "ugly" in most cases.

[MsDazzler]

  I don't remember saying anything about people having to transition because they hate their genitals but mkay. All I said was that you shouldn't base your decision to transition on looks alone. 


Yeah it seems like that doesn't it? I asked her that question in another thread and she got mad and smited me lol!   

You are misinterperting what I said - I didn't decide just on looks alone to transition. Among other factors, looks was one of those factors.

About smiting, I am not walking into that one.