church advice, if you may

[Arias]

I've been trying to convince myself for a while to go back to church. I've told myself that my bad experience was selective to my first two churches, and that people are different everwhere I go, that they can be individuals, and not drones. I've been working up the courage, or rather the words, to ask my dad if I could come to a Men's Group meeting with him at his church; they have stuff like miniature golf and other like events to reach out to people, but he suprised me the other day as I was helping him in the garage, by starting a conversation about his group leader.

He's been told specifically, that I can never come to a Men's Group meeting. This honestly broke my agnostic heart, and now I feel as though all the hope I worked myself up to was just shot to pieces, and it was laying at my feet for everyone to walk over. The group leader has never even met me. He only knows me through my dad seeking council for our difficulties concerning the situation. He doesn't even know me and he's judging me!

Here's what my dad said on the matter. How can we reach out to people if we're pushing them away? Isn't Jesus' message to love everyone, and accept them? He doesn't say that this or this person can't be Christian, or love God. No, he says that everyone is welcome, and his group leader retorted with a question: If we let them participate doesn't that mean we are condoning their lifestlye? That hurt me so much, and just left my dad dumbfounded. He doesn't believe that, but is there anything I can say to the guy? I don't know what to do, and this is affecting me more than I want it to. Currently, my dad and brother are boycotting the group on my behalf, though I never asked them to. It's our mutual goal to find a church in our area that we can all go to as a family, that can accept me for who I am, without trying to change me, or without expecting me to change down the road, or be cured by God. There's no curing that's going to go on here. It just leaves me more and more drained when every chance I think I might have leaves me more amd more hopeless.

[LostInTime]

I am not a church going person so I am not the one to dole out any sort of advice.  Just keep in mind that many of those in the organised religions will find any reason to hate someone else and preach about it.  The deacon from my then wife's family church showed up at her mother's door a few days after the wedding to let her know that the marriage would not be recognised by the church because they pretty much disliked me and knew that I was not really that religious.  Her mom ran him out of her home.    If anyone had known about the T thing, I am sure they would have sent in the Holy SWAT commandos.  they would have broken down the door, thrown in their holy water flash bangs, and then shout sermons loudly.  Or something like that.

There are those who are more accepting and the trick is to find them.  there is a church in Raleigh, NC that the Jesse Helms crowd used to protest against every other weekend.  They usually made the news and that is how I know of it.  A friend of mine who lives in Raleigh attends that church and has told me how open and welcoming they are to the LGBT crowd.

take a look around.  Maybe you might find a church that still believes that faith is something to be used to bring someone up and not to keep others down.

[Sheila]

Arias,
   There are churches in our area, in fact quite a few. I'm not a church person so I really don't know the names of the churches. I do know that they exist and quite a few. If you would call the Human Rights office at 682-5177 and talk to James, he can give you a list of all the churches that are GLBT friendly or get hold of PFLAG in town here. They can also give you a list of all the churches. I used to have a list, but have since dropped out of all the advocacy groups. Oh and by the way, go to the library. We have a display about trans issues on the second floor. You could also get some info there. My picture is in the display.
Sheila

[togetherwecan]

Arias,

I am a Christian and the Bible says we are our own temple so I do not believe you need ever step foot into a church to worship God.

If you are more looking for the fellowship aspect then I would suggest talking to Cindi Jones here and see is she has any connections in your area.

Here are some sites I found that might help you find a direction for fellowship:

Transgendered Christians fellowship (a yahoo group)
Description
TG-Christians is an electronic mailing list of Christians who are transgendered (transsexuals, crossdressers, or whatever.) This list is intended as an instrument of God's love, to bolster each of us in our faith and to be a blessing in our lives in general through fellowship with one another. Non-Christians are welcome, too, just please don't throw eggs at us.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tg-christians/

TRANSGENDERED CHRISTIANS, GAYS AND OUR COMMON BOND
by Robyn M.E. Shanor, PhD MDiv

Fun?! Who said being a Christian was supposed to be fun?! That is-- if we define the essence of being a Christian as making Jesus Christ Lord. He accepts us-- but many others, including many Christians, don't. And resolving the differences is not fun.
Being a transgendered Christian is in many ways similar to being a gay Christian. We face a number of the same issues, and some different issues as well. In some ways these issues aren't any different than many other humans have faced-- for instance, a Black American in 1900 attending a white church. "Why do they reject me?" "Why am I different?" "Why did God make me this way?" None of these questions are fun!

Usually one's first experience of being transgendered comes as a shocking confrontation from a parent-- "No, you DON'T want to be a girl! Stop saying that or your father will spank you!" Or, it may be when a group of children is....

http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/shanor.html

Sierra Nevada Transgendered Christians
Sierra Nevada Transgendered Christians, a non-denominational Christian ministry to the TG/TS and GLBT communities, their families and friends; and information about the transgendered community.
Many folks whether they are gay, lesbian, bi or transgendered, find themselves unwelcome in many of the churches. SNTC is one ministry where they will not be turned away! We are non-denominational to make sure all feel welcome, but we do believe the Holy Bible is God's word to us.
http://www.geocities.com/goldenstar575/index.html

There is a lot on the web and I would bet contacting one or two would set ya in the right direction for something more live and local for you.

[Sheila]

Bri, you are wrong on this one. I do know of several churches where we are welcomed with open arms. I believe it is the minority of churches that are bigots. They, unfortunately, speak out against anyone who is different and it seems they get the press. I hope Arias looks up places. I have been on panels with a lot of church people and they are for us. I for one believe that God is all around and I don't need a place to worship. All I have to do is stop what I'm doing and meditate to myself. Don't need any clergy.
Sheila

[littlegreenfly]

Arias,

Wow, that sounds terribly hard/harsh. I'm sorry you were turned away. It seems to me that Jesus would have us, believers/christians, get to know you before making such a decision - to know your heart and know your story. 

That's what I'm endeavoring to do here - reading and posting on this site.  I want to know people - not just this community in general, but to get to know individuals.  If I don't invest myself, I cannot call myself a true christian.  If I'm not willing to be challenged and/or criticized, then I have no right to share my faith.

I hope you find believers that will open their hearts to you... I think Jesus already has.

LGF

[Chaunte]

Arias,

WHat I have learned is that there are local churches who talk a great game but have blinders on.  Then there are local parishes that really walk the talk.  Those are harder to find.

I don't know where you live or your faith background.  (Baptist - Methodist - Catholic - etc.)  Some faith systems will never accept us, but there are others that do.

I would touch base with a local LGBT support group and ask them where there is a supportive church.  It may not be the same faith tradition.  Yes, they are out there.  Mine is a case in point.

Chaunte

[BeverlyAnn]

There are churches in our area, in fact quite a few. I'm not a church person so I really don't know the names of the churches.

Sheila, as an FYI, in your area Central Presbyterian is a More Light church.  This means that they belong to a group fighting for the acceptance and unrestricted ordination of GLBT people and should be accepting to Trans people.

Bev

[Robyn]

Look at Unity, Unitarian, United Chrurch of Christ, most Epsicopalian, and MCC.

I'm sure there are others.

Robyn

[Arias]

Brianna, honestly. I, uh, really was asking for good advice here. Understand that others may have differing opinions? Not all Christians are like that. It feels like you're mocking not just them, but me, too. Try to be considerate?

Chaunte, I'm just Christian. In fact, some wouldn't even call me that; I have some major shamanic influences in my faith. I don't... understand or like denominations. It's diminishing of the faith in my opinion. I'll go to a church that identifies as a denomination, but I won't call myself that.

I don't have any activist connections anymore, as I completely dropped them when I got tired of the ( in my opinion ) BS. I know there was one that advertised a while ago as GLBT inclusive, but I don't want a church like that. This isn't just for me; this is for my family who is struggling with the whole ordeal, especially my mom. I want a normal church, normal, that is individually inclusive. But that's not what I'm asking, as a whole. Does anyone have any advice of what to do in this situation? I like this church, but I feel I can't be accepted here with the leader thinking this.. Ah, I don't know.

But, thanks guys.

[angelsgirl]

I would say try finding another Men's Group of something somewhere but you seem intent on this particular group...

Please don't take this the wrong way, Arias, but why is so important to you to be accepted in a place that harbors so much hatred?  This particular church doesn't wish to include you, you have other options of churches, but you seem so fixated on this one, why is that?

It's kind of like when I got dumped by somebody in high school and I was really depressed about it, my mom said to me "Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? If they were right for you or good enough for you they wouldn't need any convincing."

[David W. Shelton]

There's a link for GLBT-affirming churches:

www.gaychurch.org

Hope that helps!

[Arias]

but you seem so fixated on this one, why is that?

I've gone there a few times, and I can honestly say I like the place. I can't say that about many churches. My family likes it, and they've changed churches a lot. I don't want them to do it again for me. I just think that if I could talk to this guy myself without him judging me from a distance, I can make a difference. Also, I already know people who go here. I hate meeting new folks; I get very nervous in social situations. Ah, nevermind then; I'll just let it go.

( but thank you for that link, David; I'll check it out )

An unrelated note, however: I am familiar to forums and I know how to place a topic. I meant to put it in discrimination, not spirituality. For one reason: I do not want a religous debate! I want help with this damn problem, and that stems from one thing: discrimination. It is jointly related to religon, but that was not the angle of my topic. Whoever moved it, I'm just letting you know how I wrote it. And it was not written as a post to be put in the spirituality boards.