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Can someone define what is a NON-OP TRANSSEXUAL exactly?

Started by Sad Girl, February 14, 2012, 11:55:46 AM

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MrTesto

Quote from: Stealthy on April 11, 2012, 05:21:16 AM
...only a minority of transguys end up getting bottom surgery, because both meta and phallo are s**t options right now. ...

And this, folks, is precisely the kind of talk that keeps men who have had lower surgery reticent to disclose that or to share pics with other FTMs. Stealthy, if you want to use I-statements, fine. Just remember that you're talking about the bodies of men who are also on these boards.

The fact is, in countries where there is nationalized health care, the standard is for guys to have lower surgery. That's backed up by Jamison Green's study from a few years back that linked fewer SRS procedures in the US to the fact that we almost always have to pay out of pocket. Not because someone's genitals are "sh-t options."

While it's a complicated topic, and a bit OT, studies as well as conversation among men in private lists and conference spaces give a very different story. Most guys who have had lower surgeries find their procedures be very satisfying, and would do them again even when there have been complications. And nearly all of the TS men I've heard, read, or known personally have been shamed or ridiculed by other people in the trans communities.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled definitions discussion. 
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justmeinoz

Debating who is and who isn't, on the basis of their genitalia  all sounds like the transphobic attitudes of some cis-lesbians in other forums I have looked at.

It is a personal preference, and no one has the right to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body.  For me that  is the ultimate feminist position statement.  Or to put it another way, it is gatekeeping within our own community.

Lets all give each other a pat on the back for surviving to the point where we can transition, and leave it at that.

Karen.


"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Kevin Peña

Quote from: justmeinoz on August 06, 2012, 12:08:32 AM

It is a personal preference, and no one has the right to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body. 

Lets all give each other a pat on the back for surviving to the point where we can transition, and leave it at that.


Ditto. Now only if govt. would listen...
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Floritine

Well said justme, but my thoughts are non op is a person that doesn't want GRS for her own reasons,
But classes herself fully transition female, cause she has had a orchy or may not want lower surgery at all and lives each day as it comes being female not what the world says she should be,
Maybe we are the next step in evolution and one day being cis will be looked upon as being strange or tabu..
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justmeinoz

The surgeon I planned to see, hasn't unfortunately got any surgery dates open before Uni starts next February, and as I don't wish to see anyone else or fly long distances, I will have to wait until November next year. 
I have spoken to a couple of counsellors I know well, and have decided that I will consciously treat the next 18 months as living Non-Op, and keep a journal of my feelings and experiences. 
Until now it was not something I had really considered, but it will be interesting to see how I feel in a year or so.  I have always rejected the biologically essentialist argument of those who oppose us, so in a way I am turning the idea that I am not defined by my genitals inside out and coming to the same point.
In a way it will be political and a case of showing solidarity with several friends who are Intersex too.

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Stealthy

Quote from: MrTesto on August 05, 2012, 07:32:40 PM
And this, folks, is precisely the kind of talk that keeps men who have had lower surgery reticent to disclose that or to share pics with other FTMs. Stealthy, if you want to use I-statements, fine. Just remember that you're talking about the bodies of men who are also on these boards.

The fact is, in countries where there is nationalized health care, the standard is for guys to have lower surgery. That's backed up by Jamison Green's study from a few years back that linked fewer SRS procedures in the US to the fact that we almost always have to pay out of pocket. Not because someone's genitals are "sh-t options."

While it's a complicated topic, and a bit OT, studies as well as conversation among men in private lists and conference spaces give a very different story. Most guys who have had lower surgeries find their procedures be very satisfying, and would do them again even when there have been complications. And nearly all of the TS men I've heard, read, or known personally have been shamed or ridiculed by other people in the trans communities.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled definitions discussion.

I made that post several months ago, back when all I knew about bottom surgery was the trans party line (somewhat negative). I actually have bottom surgery in my transition plans right now.
Pronouns: shi/hir

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Padma

On the Androgyne question, I'm one of those folks Bishounen referred to. To me, 'sex' and gender are intertwined but separate. It's been clear to me from the start that I'm supposed to have a female body, and that's been at the root of my dysphoria. That's what's been missing, and so surgery has always been the number one thing I wanted.

But from the gender identity point of view, I'm way more androgyne than just 'woman' - I'm not having surgery in order to stop being genderqueer :). I'm not 'fully androgyne' in the sense that I think of myself as both/neither - which is why I refer to myself sometimes as womandrogyne. But androgyne covers a pretty broad spectrum, I think, and I'm somewhere in there.

I really dislike the term 'transsexual', but it looks like we're stuck with it as distinguishing people for whom addressing their gender dysphoria involves making some changes to their body. So to me, that includes anyone who does hormones (and/or FFS), whether or not any surgery is involved. But I know many people out there reserve TS as a label for people who have, or want/plan to have, some kind of surgery to change their primary sexual characteristics (boobs, genitalia).

This is why labels cause controversy - because different people always mean different things by them.
Womandrogyne™
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Trans Truth

Quote from: Sad Girl on February 14, 2012, 11:55:46 AM
(mtf)

1. Is it someone born male who is fully a girl in her head but don't want to operate just cos of circumstancial factors as family, reputation, work etc... so she lives her daily life like a man but is a girl in her head confirmedly?

2. Is it someone born male, wants to become and live like a woman but cannot operate due to medical factors as age, illness?

3. Is it someone born male and transitions upto a certain limits, like does all FFS, boob implants but REFUSES to complete SRS INTENTIONALLY cos she is happy keeping her male genitals and in slang is what they call >-bleeped-</Ladyboy(no offense to anyone)

4. Is it someone born male who CANNOT transition whatsever cos she just lacks money to throughout her entire life?

Someone please CLARIFY, still I don't get this term, neither do I understand what is ANDROGYNE. For me is someone who appears dual. Please explain both, thanks.

to me,
1 = non transitioning, not non-op
2,3 = non-op
4 = pre-op
http://trans-solutions.blogspot.com/ - Calling for solutions for all trans people.



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John Smith

Quote from: Stealthy on April 11, 2012, 05:21:16 AM
All of those things listed could be considered non-op. A non-op transwoman is any transwoman who doesn't get SRS. When it comes to transguys, the definition of 'non-op' becomes way more complicated-[...]

Personally, I have never considered myself non-op, as I am waiting to get my top surgery and complete hysterectomy done. I will not be getting bottom surgery however. The two surgeries I mentioned are the only ones considered "standard" and necessary to get the gender marker changed where I live, additional bottom surgery is not necessary for that. It will be covered by health care for those who choose to have it, though.


Went and got me a ticker, so everytime I post I'm reminded to put down whatever I was about to eat. >.>
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aprilrain

Quote from: DianaP on August 05, 2012, 05:30:31 PM
As far as I am concerned, simply a transsexual who doesn't wish to undergo surgery as part of transition.

this is what i was going to say.
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Laura Emily

Quote from: Sad Girl on February 14, 2012, 11:55:46 AM
(mtf)

1. Is it someone born male who is fully a girl in her head but don't want to operate just cos of circumstancial factors as family, reputation, work etc... so she lives her daily life like a man but is a girl in her head confirmedly?

2. Is it someone born male, wants to become and live like a woman but cannot operate due to medical factors as age, illness?

3. Is it someone born male and transitions upto a certain limits, like does all FFS, boob implants but REFUSES to complete SRS INTENTIONALLY cos she is happy keeping her male genitals and in slang is what they call >-bleeped-</Ladyboy(no offense to anyone)

4. Is it someone born male who CANNOT transition whatsever cos she just lacks money to throughout her entire life?

Someone please CLARIFY, still I don't get this term, neither do I understand what is ANDROGYNE. For me is someone who appears dual. Please explain both, thanks.

Shouldn't #3 technically be eliminated, since both are ops? Doesn't seem to qualify as non-op criteria.
Those who live life to please others, rather than live the life they please, live only to exist.  - LEV
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