Even the concept "atheist" is annoying

[amZo]

Of course you have the right to denounce and condemn those religious extremist who literally accept and/or interpret their religious texts/dogmas to impose their twisted morality and ethics on others. You can find such a despicable behavior by individuals from all religions -even the peace and loving Buddhists have been known to murder their opponents in a fit of "rightful indignation"-

What I object is the insulting of any deity or religious  beliefs...lets put the onus where the onus is due with man not with G-d

I share those feelings. Most of the people I know are religious and most are wonderful people. I've had plenty of discussions with Christians regarding my agnostic views and they've always been respectful. I also tend to feel Christianity does far more good for our society than bad. So I have a lot of respect for it and keep and open mind.

[Tessa James]

There is no need to make this personal by denouncing or condemning anyone.  I am far more interested in science fiction, fantasy or physics as people seem better able to discuss the merits of such ideas without taking the rightous supernatural route.

Debate about deities is often polarizing and validates nothing.   We are fortunately living in a place and time when freedom of conscious and accountability keep me from being burned at the stake as a heretic.  I respect what people do in harmony with the earth and each other but have little regard for small groups of self anointed zealots who demand others abide by their utterances or burn in their version of hell.

It takes a very cursory look at history and current events to detail monstrous abuse perpetuated by those working on behalf of their deities.  Religion is no sacred cow to me.  Art and humor may be expressions of social commentary and are fortunately protected rights.

Just this week we had several letters to the editor in our daily newspaper dredging up the tired biblical reasons for condemning people and behavior considered homosexual.  National debates have regressed to reconsider insurance plans that include birth control.  Women in particular seem to be the target of the religious need to control others bodies and lives.  Millions of women still face ritual genital mutilation and second class citizenship.  Freedom is so precious and well worth our efforts to expand civil rights and protections. 

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

I take it that the OP posted this in the "Atheist" section of the forum for a reason (Remember: atheism =without-god)...

Metta Zenda

[amZo]

Kia Ora,

I take it that the OP posted this in the "Atheist" section of the forum for a reason (Remember: atheism =without-god)...

Metta Zenda

I'm not sure this flies very well. Post a thread on 'Obamacare' in the Political section and just watch the hornets fly till threads be locked...

[dalebert]

Sure there's nothing to stop theists from enjoying life to the full.

I don't think that's always true. Lots of people have beliefs that certain behaviors are "bad" based on the particular beliefs about their god that are not necessarily "bad" in reality. Also, if you believe that your god wants you to abstain from a lot of behaviors that are otherwise really enjoyable in order to be eligible for an eternal afterlife of bliss, then you're likely to not enjoy life as much. If the particular belief is true, then it would be ridiculous not to do whatever it takes or abstain from whatever is required because this life would be incredibly trivial, just a blink of time in an eternity. It wouldn't be worth risking. If the belief is false and this life is all you have, it's incredibly sad that you're spending any time at all worrying about an afterlife that isn't.

[dalebert]

So can I still be an atheist if I'm not 100% sure the universe is totally natural, but I think that's the most likely explanation based on what evidence I've seen?

I think this best describes my POV. I'm basically atheist but I often wonder about the nature of consciousness and whether there is some kind of basic vital element of consciousness that unites all thinking things on some level. *shrug* I've had my moments when intelligent design seemed likely but that's dwindled away as I've come to understand, not just evolution, but the broader concept of emergent order.

Humans don't like having unanswered questions. We tend to speculate about whatever we don't know. We have to have a hypothesis and then test it before we can arrive at answers. God just seems like one of those speculations that has been used to fill in gaps in our knowledge. As we find more answers through the scientific method, the gaps keep dwindling and our notion of God keeps changing as well. Maybe a day will come when hardly anyone feels the need for that speculation but there will always be gaps in our knowledge. We'll never know all the answers about everything. In that sense, maybe the belief in "God" is sort of built into us--sort of our desire to seek answers.

[Anatta]

I'm not sure this flies very well. Post a thread on 'Obamacare' in the Political section and just watch the hornets fly till threads be locked...

Kia Ora Nikko,

The point I was making is a simple one(but I do understand what you mean-I've had a fair share of my threads locked when they have gone off track)...Anyway the OP just wanted an alternative for the word "atheist" (hence why she put it in the 'atheist' section )so one would think like minded people (those of atheist persuasion) would respond...But instead some non atheists have responded then got somewhat "annoyed" by some of the "non-theistic in nature" comments...


A belief in just the one god could be seen as somewhat narrow minded and arrogant because one tends to dismiss all the other gods and this dismissal is disrespecting others and their beliefs...

When it comes to respect, who is disrespecting who ...where does one draw the line ?

Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

I don't think that's always true. Lots of people have beliefs that certain behaviors are "bad" based on the particular beliefs about their god that are not necessarily "bad" in reality. Also, if you believe that your god wants you to abstain from a lot of behaviors that are otherwise really enjoyable in order to be eligible for an eternal afterlife of bliss, then you're likely to not enjoy life as much. If the particular belief is true, then it would be ridiculous not to do whatever it takes or abstain from whatever is required because this life would be incredibly trivial, just a blink of time in an eternity. It wouldn't be worth risking. If the belief is false and this life is all you have, it's incredibly sad that you're spending any time at all worrying about an afterlife that isn't.

Kia Ora Dalebert,

Yes, I can see your point but for the most part we are on the same page....

"Sure there's nothing to stop theists from enjoying life to the full...However the spanner in the works for many so to speak, is their fear of god and the consequences should they accidentally stray off the path "F-up" one too many times and have hell to pay for it...(bearing in mind some do believe in a form of afterlife where things are not that pleasant and often a permanent abode )"

Metta Zenda

[Hikari]

So, is the OP concerned about, for lack of a better term "theonormativity" being applied to atheism as a theology itself? I mean, I guess I could see where that is a bit strange, but I mean people like labels, and theistic people do certainly seem to give much more credence to atheism when they view it as just another theology, not making a distinction between it or Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc

I mean, when I have children I suppose calling them "atheist children" is kinda superfluous but, at the same point if it would allow them to have their lack of religion taken with the same level of seriousness that having a different faith does, then that seems hardly to be a bad thing, I wouldn't want children of mine seen as "ripe for theological teachning" just because they didn't have a religion. When I was a child, I encountered lots of pushy Christians (I am sure it would be the same with any majority religion if I lived elsewhere) who upon finding I was an atheist would try and "save" me, but wouldn't bother trying to "save" the Jewish or Muslim children, I wouldn't really wish that experience on others.

[amZo]

Kia Ora Nikko,

The point I was making is a simple one(but I do understand what you mean-I've had a fair share of my threads locked when they have gone off track)...Anyway the OP just wanted an alternative for the word "atheist" (hence why she put it in the 'atheist' section )so one would think like minded people (those of atheist persuasion) would respond...But instead some non atheists have responded then got somewhat "annoyed" by some of the "non-theistic in nature" comments...


A belief in just the one god could be seen as somewhat narrow minded and arrogant because one tends to dismiss all the other gods and this dismissal is disrespecting others and their beliefs...

When it comes to respect, who is disrespecting who ...where does one draw the line ?

Metta Zenda

I did get your point, it's a good one actually.

I was just pointing out that the real violations of your point is elsewhere. I wasn't criticizing the thread topic, I don't believe anyone did, I was just responding to Peky's comment which I think was a good one.

If I criticized the OP for posting an atheist topic in the atheist section, then I would plead "guilty". 

[dalebert]

This video just happened to come up while I was reading this thread and it seemed to have some poignant thoughts so what the heck...

[Anatta]

I think this best describes my POV. I'm basically atheist but I often wonder about the nature of consciousness and whether there is some kind of basic vital element of consciousness that unites all thinking things on some level. *shrug* I've had my moments when intelligent design seemed likely but that's dwindled away as I've come to understand, not just evolution, but the broader concept of emergent order.

Humans don't like having unanswered questions. We tend to speculate about whatever we don't know. We have to have a hypothesis and then test it before we can arrive at answers. God just seems like one of those speculations that has been used to fill in gaps in our knowledge. As we find more answers through the scientific method, the gaps keep dwindling and our notion of God keeps changing as well. Maybe a day will come when hardly anyone feels the need for that speculation but there will always be gaps in our knowledge. We'll never know all the answers about everything. In that sense, maybe the belief in "God" is sort of built into us--sort of our desire to seek answers.

Kia Ora Dalebert,

Science has yet to agree on what consciousness is, where it comes from and has it always been present....


"There was a young man who said though it seems I know that I know what I would like to see is the "I" that knows me when I know that I know that I know !"

The mysteries of the universe ....Don't you just love it 

This video just happened to come up while I was reading this thread and it seemed to have some poignant thoughts so what the heck...

Ignorance just means without knowledge of and to be without knowledge in this day and age(contrary to the belief of some that "ignorance is bliss") is not a good thing, especially when it relates to certain issues that effect others... However if one is forced to think about things(what the guy in the video is getting at) -see things from a different perspective then they more often than not end up better informed(more knowledgeable, as curiosity takes hold and they delve a little *or a lot* deeper into the matter at hand) ...

But sadly there are always exceptions to the rule "A bigot's mind is like the pupil of the eye the more light one shines upon it-the more it will contract!"

Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

I did get your point, it's a good one actually.

I was just pointing out that the real violations of your point is elsewhere. I wasn't criticizing the thread topic, I don't believe anyone did, I was just responding to Peky's comment which I think was a good one.

If I criticized the OP for posting an atheist topic in the atheist section, then I would plead "guilty". 

Kia Ora Nikko,

No worries...Much of my comment was a general response and not specifically targeting your comment...

However some "are" critical of the contents of this thread, this is why the controversy has arisen...
___________________________________________________________________________________

Which leads me to ask this question(again not specifically targeting anyone in particular-but you're most welcome to put forward an answer) ...So if an atheist comments on an atheist thread in an atheist section of a forum (which caters for its atheist members) highlighting their atheistic view point and... a non-believer in atheism takes offence whilst reading the comment on an atheist thread in the atheist section of a forum(that caters for it's atheist members) Are they respecting or disrespecting the rights of the atheists to hold views that differ from their own?

Long winded I know but hey that me...at times full of wind 

Metta Zenda