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">-bleeped-<"

Started by beth_finallyme, May 28, 2005, 01:20:04 PM

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beth_finallyme

Last nite iwas watching a crime show that had a transsexual story line and although the authors were trying to be sympathetic to transsexuals it wasn't that great.

The one thing that bothered me was what this woman detective said (she was the character most helpful and understanding toward the TS). She said "I have met lots of >-bleeped-<s"

Am I the only one that finds this term offensive?  To me it's like if someone said, refering to women "I know lots of c***s"

Am I wrong? Is >-bleeped-< a word that is used outside of porn? How do you all feel about the word?





beth
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Terri-Gene

At times I find the "Trannie" label offensive, as it lumped me in with others who had far different goals and motives, anyone who was around here a couple of years ago or longer was highly aware of those feelings and I'm sorry for the stress I caused some of them with my own intolerance, but since then I have come to view it as just another label which actually says so little about me personally, and at times now I actually embrace it in the same way homosexuals embrace the term "Queer" which was explained to me by one I trust and helped me to understand tolerance beyond my own narrow belief systems.
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4years

To me a >-bleeped-< is a part of a car.
But then I tend to lag behind normal word usage.
Either way though I really don't see it as offensive, just horrendously ignorant.
I don't mind labels, as they tend to speak volumes about the person speaking.
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Svetlana

there are two things that make the term ">-bleeped-<" offensive:

1) the implicit suggestion that a transsexual and a transvestite are the same thing.

2) this may seem like a silly reason at first, but i have found it does actually have this effect.  the rhyming of it with "granny"... which (in conjunction with ageist prejudiced) suggests feebleness... being "weak"... being "lesser people".  worst of all, in some peoples' minds, feebleness caused by "overambitious sexual activities" (which they assume is what gender is all about) (thereby suggesting pervertedness).  that may look like a very long line of connected dots to begin with, but if you think about it, that actually is the impression that's often given out by the term.

myself, i'm bisexual, which makes the decision of whether or not i'd call myself "gay" kinda confusing.  but anyway, if i were just plain gay, i wouldn't embrace the word "queer".  i think that trying to normalise a term that is meant offensively only says to the bigots, "oh, look, they even admit there's something wrong with them".  i think the word ">-bleeped-<" to the transgendered is more offensive than the word "queer" has become to the homosexual... still... i won't be embracing either.  just like i wouldn't expect a black person to embrace "bongo-bongo land" as a second name for wherever they were born.

the trouble is, the term ">-bleeped-<" is getting used a lot.  it gives out all the wrong impressions and strongly needs to be discouraged in my view.
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michelle

The problem that I have with the word >-bleeped-< is that it there is a Hollywood and media stereo type attached to this word which has been communicated to the public.    Most trannies in the movies  are placed in stereo type roles and not seen in everyday life roles and  that most of us go through.

When people read the newspapers or even books it  may quite possibly be this stereo type that comes  to mind when the word >-bleeped-< is used.

Therefore I don't like to hear this word used or applied to me.
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
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Terri-Gene

Quote from: Svetlana on May 28, 2005, 01:57:06 PM
there are two things that make the term ">-bleeped-<" offensive:

1) the implicit suggestion that a transsexual and a transvestite are the same thing."

Careful with that Svetlana, though it is true, it stirs up to much emotion in this type of environment.  It is an attempt to seperate ourselves from others for political and social gain, trust me on this, been there, done that and am sorry for it.

Quote
2) this may seem like a silly reason at first, but i have found it does actually have this effect.  the rhyming of it with "granny"... which (in conjunction with ageist prejudiced) suggests feebleness... being "weak"... being "lesser people".  worst of all, in some peoples' minds, feebleness caused by "overambitious sexual activities" (which they assume is what gender is all about) (thereby suggesting pervertedness).  that may look like a very long line of connected dots to begin with, but if you think about it, that actually is the impression that's often given out by the term.

Only if you let it affect you as such and you lack the personal confidence in yourself and your reasons to just be as you are regardless of peoples belief systems.

Quote
myself, i'm bisexual, which makes the decision of whether or not i'd call myself "gay" kinda confusing.  but anyway, if i were just plain gay, i wouldn't embrace the word "queer".  i think that trying to normalise a term that is meant offensively only says to the bigots, "oh, look, they even admit there's something wrong with them".  i think the word ">-bleeped-<" to the transgendered is more offensive than the word "queer" has become to the homosexual... still... i won't be embracing either.  just like i wouldn't expect a black person to embrace "bongo-bongo land" as a second name for wherever they were born.

It has nothing to do with what others believe Lana,  and yes, there are many homosexuals who do not like the term "queer", but overall, it is about taking ownership of the term and removing the personal sting from it.  It is like saying, "YES, I am a gay man or a Lesbian Woman or in the case of Transgendered, a person who sees themselves as opposite of their birth sex, and proud to be so, so what concern is this to you?"  It is an admition of your orientation, or gender role,  not of peoples beliefs about it.  What you know of yourself is more important then what others believe in such cases.

Quote
the trouble is, the term ">-bleeped-<" is getting used a lot.  it gives out all the wrong impressions and strongly needs to be discouraged in my view.

A view I once held and was very vocal about it, as well as a personal definition of who was more deserving then others of public respect and recognition.   It was typical of me to suggest that without the "rainbow" involved, transsexuals would find it far easier to exist and get treatment.  Ask Jamie_Lauren or Susan how popular that made me and how many locked threads and hurt feelings it produced.

Personal views are one thing, where and how they should be expressed is another.

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Terri-Gene

 "Type ">-bleeped-<" into Google and see what you get."

Try typing transsexual into google and she how many positive references you get.  I could learn to hate that label, the one that in it's original meaning, is what I actually am, just as easily based on what most people searching the internet will discover.

Its all about being confident in what you are and knowing you may or may not be what others believe you to be, as it is only YOU who can change peoples conception of what you personally are.

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Svetlana

#7
i disagree on your first point there.  whether i am the most confident woman in the world who wouldn't give a damn what anybody called me, or whether i am the most inward wreck who would die if somebody was to suggest i wasn't perfect... either way, doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to what somebody thinks when they hear the word ">-bleeped-<".

on your second point... well, taking a word and removing the sting from it is one way of doing things, but it's seldom the most practical.  should we call each other "c***s" in an attempt to remove the personal sting from that word?  i don't think so.  in most cases, i think that the thing of taking the sting out of a word is rathermuch the scenic route if you will, and the thing of trying to get people to use words that are good and descriptive, with no sting attached, instead, is a much better plan (ie. "t-girl" or "t-boy"... they are fine).

what you know yourself to be is more important than what others see you as, but nevertheless what others see you as still remains mighty important, if we are each to live in a world occupied by said others.

i don't know quite what you meant by "the rainbow".  i'm guessing, it means the "spectrum of gender / sexuality issues" and the way they are often grouped.  if i'm wrong with that guess then please correct me.  otherwise, i would say this: i personally disagree with the wide grouping on a moral basis, but on a practical basis, accept it as necessary, and thustowards, am not begrudging of it.  i didn't mean to give the impression i might begrudge it.

if my assumption of the meaning of "the rainbow" was correct, that might give me an idea of what you were saying about your comment when you told me to be "careful with that".  i didn't mean to stir up emotion, and if i did, then it was as only a side-effect to the actual meaning, which was only to try and describe the misconnections of the prejudice we encounter.  whatever you think, having people believe that a transvestite is the same as a transsexual isn't good for any of us.  it isn't good for a transvestite and it isn't good for a transsexual.  sure we can attend groups together and call each other transgendered as an umbrella term, because that's a practical way of coming together to solve many problems each of us have that do happen to be of similar natures.  but i don't think i'm going to offend anyone by suggesting that it's not good for people to think both categories are the same.  and if i do offend anyone, then i apologise, but with that, please expain how and why, so that i can learn from it.

i also strongly disagree that it's only you who can change peoples' conceptions of what you are.  that is something that you can do, sure, but it's not the only thing.  the mass media changes a lot of peoples' conceptions of what a lot of people are, and lots of the time people can't reasonably be expected to be able to counteract all that mud-slinging by themselves.  anybody can change somebody's opinion of anybody.  there's no bad thing about trying to influence other people to give yourself a good image.  that's just part of how it all works.

it is a lot about being confident in yourself, but it isn't "all" about that.  whatever you think, we each have to live in this world.  and if all and sundry think we're perverts, and we don't care about what any of them think, sooner or later they are going to think they are justified in their misconceptions and seek to distroy us, which is kinda what's already happening.  besides which, i do care if somebody else thinks that of me, regardless of whether or not they'd have the influence or the will to do anything about it.
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Leigh

 
Quotei think the word ">-bleeped-<" to the transgendered is more offensive than the word "queer" has become to the homosexual...

2004 Pride celebration in Portland Oregon, the theme was Queer We Go Again

If you take the word away from those who use it in a negative manner and use it yourself then the word has no power.

I am lesbian but I am part of the Queer community.  Partly by my choice and partly because society places me there.  I have over heard people in stores refering to me as a f'ing Dyke.  And there is a problem with this?

Words can only hurt or harm you if you allow it.  

Leigh
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Terri-Gene

 "i disagree on your first point there.  whether i am the most confident woman in the world who wouldn't give a damn what anybody called me, or whether i am the most inward wreck who would die if somebody was to suggest i wasn't perfect... either way, doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to what somebody thinks when they hear the word ">-bleeped-<"."

Sorry Lana, I only speak from the experience of one who has seen many sides of the issue over 5 decades and grew up through the beginnings of the present environment, living within it and without it, and is still trying to learn from it all.  You are welcome to disagree and learn by your own experience and interpetation of it.

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Dorian

#10
Quote from: Cailyn on May 28, 2005, 02:26:26 PM
Type ">-bleeped-<" into Google and see what you get.  All the sponsered ads are for porno sites and most of the websites listed are sleezy except for the auto/truck transmission sites.  I think this word along with ">-bleeped-<" is offensive and is about the objectification of transwomen as sex objects and subjects of perversity.  If we want people to believe this is medically inherent then this exposure degrades us all. T-girl, t-woman, transwoman, or transsexual, or just T are fine but these other words are no more acceptable than bitch, ho, slut, or c***. 

Cailyn


*claps

Has some of you know I live in México and here we are way bhind in words of tolerance and acceptation, so far Homosexuality is barely being accepted and wiew has a normal thing.

Now I really fear the word ">-bleeped-<" implications in sexuality, cuz that will target me and other ppl to think of us has sexual object or simply believe we are perverts or sexual misplaced. Short minded person exist in this world, and certainly media dont help at all, by difunding streotypes.

The best we can do is to talk to whorever lend an ear. After all, if someone dont know about us, how can we expect them to try to understand?
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beth_finallyme

#11
QuoteIt has nothing to do with what others believe Lana,  and yes, there are many homosexuals who do not like the term "queer", but overall, it is about taking ownership of the term and removing the personal sting from it.  It is like saying, "YES, I am a gay man or a Lesbian Woman or in the case of Transgendered, a person who sees themselves as opposite of their birth sex, and proud to be so, so what concern is this to you?"  It is an admition of your orientation, or gender role,  not of peoples beliefs about it.  What you know of yourself is more important then what others believe in such cases.


Does  this means someone born a woman who is proud of it and is comfortable with herself should be ok with being called c***? And Afro-Americans should be ok with the N word? It dos not matter as long as they know who they are?  I see no reason being offended with a term used to describe you is somehow your fault. If a term is offensive to a group, then it should be dropped by society, not embraced by the group.


If you google transsexual you get Susan's but not if you google >-bleeped-<.
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beth_finallyme

QuoteIf you google transsexual you get Susan's but not if you google >-bleeped-<


actually maybe you do now that i've brought up the term here >:(






beth
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Svetlana

#13
Quote from: Terri-Gene on May 28, 2005, 03:30:37 PMSorry Lana, I only speak from the experience of one who has seen many sides of the issue over 5 decades and grew up through the beginnings of the present environment, living within it and without it, and is still trying to learn from it all.  You are welcome to disagree and learn by your own experience and interpetation of it.

picture the scene.  some idiot sitting in front of the television box, munching a bag of chips.  sees some television program documentary which looks at ">-bleeped-< porn".  this is a violent and self-righteous person who owns a hand-gun.  finishes watching the program, goes out for a walk.  observes me minding my own business, walking right by his house, where his children could see me if they were outside playing, bringing down the tone of his neighborhood which he is proud of.

shouts over to me "oi, are you a f'ing >-bleeped-<?"  do you really think this person is going to see me being proud of myself and say "oh, nevermind.  i had the wrong idea.  i'll just leave you be, and be on my way.  apologies for the inconvenience."  do you?  or is he going to beat the hell out of me, or alternatively shoot me in the head?

excuse me if that does not seem realistic.  the impression you give other people of yourself is not the only one which will matter, and it does matter what other people think of you.  this idiot watching his television box will have no clue as to who i am or what i think, so it won't make an ounce of difference however the hell much or little i believe in myself as to what he will think all "trannies" are like.  to simply go around being proud of oneself without being cautious about outside influences upon others' impressions, i think could be recklessly dangerous in certain circumstances.  that's the only reason i continue to argue the point.
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Terri-Gene

#14
"Does  this means someone born a woman who is proud of it and is comfortable with herself should be ok with being called c***? And Afro-Americans should be ok with the N word? It dos not matter as long as they know who they are?"

How words affect you has more to do with what kind of person you are then what people believe you to be and no matter who you are, there is always room for negative comments which will hurt.  The cause of the hurt must be addressed of course, but one must also learn to accept that people often hurt others in so many ways it is impossible to make yourself totally invulnerable so you must to some extent at least learn to be immune to things which you don't believe to be true though many may believe it.

as to words like "c***", well, I can remember the days when I referred to women as "slices" myself, as that was the commonly used term in my environmental culture at the time which ment about the same thing.  I didn't use it to make any kind of statement, just it was a common term applied to women, as a species, and I did use it within those circles, so I cast no personal blame at persons who use such language in present days, though yes, it does have some personal effect, though I refuse to let it bother me more then superficially.  It not right, but it is a fact of life I must deal with in a mature manner.



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Svetlana

ps. if some homosexual people have managed to turn around the word "queer" from an offense to a discription, then all power to them.  that's quite an achievement.  would've been a lot more productive to try and stop people calling them queer in the first place... but never mind.  actually, i don't think they've achieved it at all.  i think that "queer" is still used as a derogatory term by many many people.  i don't think the power has been taken away from it, and if i knew any of my friends' sexualities, and one of them was homosexual, and told me he/she was happy being called queer, i still wouldn't call him/her queer.  even "gay" is still used as a derogatory term.  take note of the sheer frequency by which schoolchildren will use "gay" to mean unsatisfactory, undesirable or pointless.  so even "gay" hasn't been conquered, nevermind "queer".

no, i think that whole approach only produces a confusing mess at the end of the day.  give me but one example of an insult word which has been completely turned around, if you can find one.  then tell me how long that took.

nobody should simply "put up and shut up" with the "way of the world".  many people often forget that the "way of the world" can be changed.  it was changed many times to get to the state it's in at the moment, for goodness sake!  don't be so defeatest.  you don't simply "have to put up with it" and accept all those insult terms creeping into everyday language use.  it should be changed.
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Leigh

8. Foul or obscene language belongs on the street. Please do not bring it on to my site, my chat or my forums.

No more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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beth_finallyme

I appologize Terri-gene,

I understand now what you mean now. If someone on the street calls me >-bleeped-<, then it wouldnt bother me because i know they are just ignorant and in that sense (being called a name) the term would not bother me.

It does bother me when it is used on television because it just adds to the ignorance that is out there.
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Terri-Gene

Thank you Beth, but as to your second sentence I won't comment as I have said what I can on this matter, and more would not be productive.

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4years

Quote from: Leigh on May 28, 2005, 03:28:39 PM
If you take the word away from those who use it in a negative manner and use it yourself then the word has no power.
By implicit definition any given word has no power. It is not what a word means it is how we interpret it.

Am I supposed to be ashamed when someone calls me a bad name? *shrug* It's their opinion, and as I see it if they can't be polite there opinion isn't worth the effort they used to express it.

Quote from: Leigh on May 28, 2005, 03:28:39 PM
Words can only hurt or harm you if you allow it. 
Exactly my point.


Dorian, for what it is worth:
My view on sexuality is that it has so little relevance that any attempt to use it to chastise or categorize is amusing at best.



What I find amusing with bad words is that they are all supposed to be, well, 'bad', yet a lot of them had a very mundane everyday meaning, for example. (from dictionary.com)


  • queer: "1. Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation."
  • gay: "2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry."
  • fagot: "1. A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together.", 2. Also.
  • '>-bleeped-<' has no entry; fwiw, so from my local Encarta "2.  Transsexual", "3.  Transvestite"

Why am I supposed to be offended?
Because the implied aggression of the person using them.

The way I see it is that the words are just the messengers (expression of don't shoot the messenger seems relevant), what we do with the message is what should be the concern, I think.
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